I rewatched the game. On the first series we got 2 three and outs (because of a ST penalty). We had 3 down linemen. We rushed 5 and even 6 on passing downs. THE MEETING WAS WORKING!!Originally Posted by Fritz
Then we went right back to what we had been doing previous weeks. I just think he is too old to change.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
Hmmm. Saw a headline saying the blitzing didn’t work. But frankly I believe you over a “content creator” trying to get clicks.
"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPack
I mean...he was sacked on a 5 man blitz and then forced to throw too fast and missed Thielen wide open on a 6 man to start the game. The rest of the first half I never saw more than 4 going after him. Maybe it failed in the 2nd half that I didn't watch yet.
Another note....DeGuerra threw some pretty nice blocks in the first half. He was central to the Jones outburst early.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
The Packers have given up an average of 75 yards per game rushing the last two games that the pitch forks really came out for Joe Barry’s head.
It’s funny how when he was giving up 150 rushing people bitched and whined that if he invested heavier in stopping the run all would be cured. But then as soon as he invested more to stop the run, it got even uglier.
It’s almost like Joe Barry already knew the reality that the passing game can shred you up so much worse and it’s better to limit big chunks.
He’s not a great coach, but fans are so ridiculous with thinking they know it all. It’s funny to see how bad it got when Barely did what you guys were begging him to do.
Same goes for the idiotic (get aggressive, play man defense) bullshit fans bellow about. Ha. As soon as you do that, this isn’t 1992 anymore. Rule changes have made primary man defense irrelevant. As soon as you do that, you’re gonna get gouged so bad, you’ll never win a game. But fans know it all. These coaches are big dummies. The real geniuses are sitting on their couch drinking beer and munching on Tostitos and Buffalo chicken dip.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Carrington 7th round rookie Valentine is Barry’s #1 corner
Corey undrafted rookie Ballentine is CB2
Jaire hobbled clown Alexander has had the 3rd most snaps
and Eric hasn’t played football in over a year Stokes is 4
Keyshon, cant play defense, Nixon is the nickle back
Rudy, shouldn’t ever be on the field on defense Ford is his top safety
Jonathan, cant cover at all Owens is #2
With splashes of Darnel, first round bust Savage
All while
Devondre, injured and aging Cambell is at linebacker
Quay, rough and tough but dumb as fuck Walker is coordinating the pass defense
And Isaiah triggers in the run game but can’t cover shit McDuffie is the third
Joe Barely has done a decent job with the fucking shit hole situation he’s been given. I’m ready to move on, but you guys thinking firing him fixes our defense…. You’re not the know it alls you think you are.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Nobody is saying that firing Barry fixes everything. But as long as Barry is DC nothing gets fixed. As a DC he's at best a mediocrity. Always has been. Always will be. And I don't think it will just be him. I wouldn't be surprised if most or all of the defensive staff is replaced.
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
I’m down to replace him. It sure seems to me you can do better. But Joe Barry isn’t our biggest problem on defense like everyone seems to think.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
Everyone has their panties in a bunch like we’re so close to the playoffs and a shot at the Super Bowl with this defense if we just get a coordinator. That couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s so far off, it’s ridiculous.
Relax. Stop worrying about meaningless wins. We’re a couple months away from the parts of the offseason where actual meaningful change can occur.
This is a great year with how so many offensive players have panned out. Gute has to roll up his sleeves and get to revamping that defense this off season and we’re back in the hunt.
But for now, settle the fuck down and stop melting down about Joe Barry. We sound as idiotic as Bears fans blaming Getsy for Fields being a dumb ass.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
You sound like you’re making an argument for keeping Barry.
I understand your perspective. It's hard to actually say what the biggest problem is, but Barry is definitely in the running for that title.
There are a lot of problems with the defense, injuries/talent in the secondary being one of them for sure. GB doesn't have great talent in the secondary, but there are other teams who are in the same scenario, and they manage to get them coached up to play. I think Greg Williams (the passing game guy on D) has done a decent job, but Barry is calling some very soft zones and coverages which aren't getting it done. Name 3 players drafted in the last 3 years on defense who have developed. Can you name any who made a Year 2 leap?
Do you trust this team to hold a 3 point lead when the other team gets the ball with 55 seconds left on the clock? Why or why not?
Barry has always believed in rushing with 4 and having zone coverage behind it. That's what he will default to.
Barry's defenses have been bad in DET and WAS as well. He's never had an above average defense. Most incompetent DCs will luck into at least one season of that. His fingerprints have been all over a defense that hasn't improved or performed consistently well (or even average) for 3 seasons. That's...grounds for termination in the NFL
I think if they had an above average (or even average) DC they'd be much better with the same roster. You think Mike Zimmer or Robert Saleh wouldn't do better? Remember when Barry got Covid and Jerry Grey subbed in as DC against ARI, and Rasul got the Int and the win? They were playing a rookie and someone signed off a PS at CB.
Talent matters, but so does coaching.
You're not seriously letting damned Barry off the hook, are you? A LOT of teams' defenses have a lot worse players than these and still play a helluva lot better than the Packers D.
Ford and Owens have been downright decent at Safety including in coverage. It's Johnson who has coverage problems. In every game except the Giants, Nixon has been adequate or better. Jaire did stink, but Stokes IMO wasn't as bad as some are saying. He had fairly good coverage most of the time and did a good job against the run.
You conveniently failed to mention the plethora of #1s and other quality players in the D Line and OLB spots who mostly are playing good but not good enough to overcome the rotten scheme and poor adjustment by Barry.
What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?
How about when it is 4th and 1 and you don't cover the A gaps on D? That is completely the call of the D and rests squarely on the DC.
But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim Harmston
Or that play when it was 3rd and like 8 and our safeties were playing 25 yards off the line of scrimmage? Someone posted a screen shot on here in one of the threads.
But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim Harmston
Here it is. Whoever made that defensive call should be fired. The safeties are 27 and 22 yards off the ball on 3rd & 4.
But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim Harmston
So you think Joe Barry called a play where the defenders were supposed to line up 20 yards off? Lafleur said within the general coverage call, players get flexibility in how they align.
You can call the same exact quarters coverage 3 times and the players can align differently each time.
One time Valentine could be 5 yards off because he has confidence Randall Cobb can’t beat him over the top
Next he could be 15 yards off with Tyreek Hill in front of him.
The next time he could be 10 yards off with Mike Evans in front of him on a 3rd and 4. There is still room to break on a ball to the sideline, but even still, a 5 yard first down is better than a 43 yard touchdown.
Their own abilities, The receiver in front of them, the down and distance, the moment in the game, all are considerations when a corner decides where he wants to line up presnap in a quarters coverage.
First job is to not give up a touchdown. Giving up touchdowns is worse than 3 yard runs or 6 yard first downs in most game situations
Next job is not giving up explosives. 3 yard runs are better than 27 yard deep outs.
Next is to attack the shorter stuff when you feel confident you’re not giving up a big play
Things like that are being considered by the player when the align themselves.
And young guys make more mistakes.
Further, there are a lot of plays that our guys can’t execute well. Most of our secondary has glaring weaknesses. It’s not Joe Barry’s fault our guys are either too inexperienced or not capable of playing nfl defense.
There is so much more that goes into it than Joe Barry intentionally or incompetently putting them in position to fail.
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
I think they don't trust the safeties, who are basically a step better than guys off the street.
All the same, if the spacing of your players is bad, your defense is not going to work. I thought the idea behind most zone defenses (and pass defense in general) is to shrink the field and make it harder for the QB to make a throw. Barry is doing the opposite here.
The offense wants to stress a defense horizontally and vertically. I don't know why you'd help them out by playing your safeties off by a quarter of the entire field's length. THAT is definitely on the DC.
OK, you can blame Gute for not getting better players, but at this point they should at least be coached up to understand the defense and execute. Playing that far off essentially removes them from the play unless it's an explosive gain...which you are almost ceding by playing 11-vs-9 anyway.
Gute couldn't get better talent in the secondary because there was no cap space, and they had Jaire, Rasul, Stokes, Nixon as the top 4 corners. Everyone knew safety was a concern, with Savage, Ford, Owens and a rookie (and Tarvarius Moore) but I'd expect you can get by with average competence at safety if you aren't playing single high safety.
Sorry for ranting, but the kind of stuff shown in the picture above drives me batty, and I've seen it too often recently with GB. It's tantamount to surrender.
I agree with this, but I think the coaches have at least as much responsibility as the players do.There is so much more that goes into it than Joe Barry intentionally or incompetently putting them in position to fail.
At this point in the season, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect even the rookies to know where they are supposed to be lined up, their assignments, and be "capable of playing nfl defense". They've had 15 weeks of regular season games plus preseason and camps to get this down. If they can't pick it up by now -- they've played as much if not more than a full college season -- then you wonder if they ever will. Or if it's being taught coaches poorly. I could understand this from rookies in the first half of the season, but not in Week 15 or 16.
I'd cast doubt on the position coaches as well, not just Barry. There have been plenty of execution errors by the players, but when you watch this defense it looks like a leaky ship, and it's usually not because someone missed a tackle.
MATTY FLOWER: We played 3 good quarters of defense and 1 bad one. All you Barry supporters can keep bashing the tank. The fear is real))
Last edited by Bretsky; 12-27-2023 at 06:43 PM.
LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?
Completely agree that there are a LOT of problems on Defense; some have been bad draft picks; some could be crap attitudes (JAIRE) and some of it is Joe Barry.
The next three important dates are draft days.
LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?
Thunderdan, you’re a teacher right? I hope every student you have is performing at the absolute elite level compared to their peers. If not, it’s all on you, right?
Formerly known as JustinHarrell.
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