OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[ThunderDan]

"or, Favre just got old and isn't very good anymore." Patler

That's a mere opinion. Yes a player can dramatically decline in a single season once he hits a certain advanced age.

Yet you chose to ignore the facts I presented. His OL was remarkably inferior in terms of performance fr. 2009 last season.

Favre lost a serious weapon at WR in Sydney Rice and other WR's didn't step up. He also lost his #1 TE. early in last season and a go to guy. Bernard Berrian never played well. The replacement for Chester Taylor never replaced Taylors production. Favre was working with an inferior offense last season than he had in 2009.

If I am correct and you are the man with the Stat's. I deserve more than some allusion to it was all an age factor or the ridiculous inference that I am blaming anyone else for Favre's poor season last.

Ed.

This got me thinking so I looked up Favre's stats. Funny thing, when you search for Favre on the NFL website under both active and historical players he can't be found. I had to go into a game log that I knew he played in to link to his personal page.

If you look at Favre in 4 year chunks this is what you get for QB rating:
91-94: 0, 85.3, 72.2, 90.7 ave (throwing out the zero): 82.73
95-98: 99.5, 95.8, 92.6, 87.8 ave: 93.9
99-02: 74.7, 78.0, 94.1, 85.6 ave: 83.1
03-06: 90.4, 92.4, 70.9, 72.7 ave: 81.6
07-10: 95.7, 81.0, 107.2, 69.9 ave: 88.4

Looking at totals, BF has had 2 of his best 4 years in the last 4 years. He has also had 3 of his worst 4 years in the last 6 years.

[easy cheesy]

Careful with that. I hear that filter ain't so big...

Yeah... I hear 4 inches... I won't buck the video evidence I've seen... back to "forgettable"...

[woodbuck27]

This got me thinking so I looked up Favre's stats. Funny thing, when you search for Favre on the NFL website under both active and historical players he can't be found. I had to go into a game log that I knew he played in to link to his personal page.

If you look at Favre in 4 year chunks this is what you get for QB rating:
91-94: 0, 85.3, 72.2, 90.7 ave (throwing out the zero): 82.73
95-98: 99.5, 95.8, 92.6, 87.8 ave: 93.9
99-02: 74.7, 78.0, 94.1, 85.6 ave: 83.1
03-06: 90.4, 92.4, 70.9, 72.7 ave: 81.6
07-10: 95.7, 81.0, 107.2, 69.9 ave: 88.4

Looking at totals, BF has had 2 of his best 4 years in the last 4 years. He has also had 3 of his worst 4 years in the last 6 years.

Nice post. A lot of work there. Thanks.

GO PACKERS!

[woodbuck27]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nf...ael&id=5941769

Peppers was one of the Bears defenders who found Favre after the game, to shake his hand and wish him well, and more actually. "I was happy Brett suited up," Peppers said. "I figured it might be the last time I got to see him across the field from me on the opposing sideline. Yeah, I talked to him after the game. I told him it was an honor to play against him. He said, 'Likewise. … Go beat the Packers in a couple of weeks.'"

Wouldn't the Chicago Bears love to honor that last wish? " fr. Article

Pure gamesmanship?

The Bears and Minny are Packer rivals. Peppers paid respect to Favre after the game and with the above statement it merely seems to me that Brett Favre offered Julius Peppers a mutual respect with some support for the Bears to continue their season by winning the NFCN. The Packers were certainly in a dubious position at that stage in the schedule.

Was it support and gamesmanship? I can certainly see why some Packer fans may be annoid at this report but holy smokes. If anyone else made a similiar statement it wouldn't have even reached the media.

Because it was Brett Favre need their be an outcry of foul? Come on Packer fans please give the Brett Favre bashing a break. Let's all movbe on. Especially now that we enjoyed outr team marvelous accomplishement last season

We overcame all adversity to be Super Bowl Champs. Brett Favre can only tarnish that if we are silly enough to allow any of Favre's former actions to detract from our celebration of a Packer victory in concert as Packer fans. Arn't we bigger than rehashing stuff that 'is just old'?

GO PACKERS!

[Patler]

The Bears and Minny are Packer rivals. Peppers paid respect to Favre after the game and with the above statement it merely seems to me that Brett Favre offered Julius Peppers a mutual respect with some support for the Bears to continue their season by winning the NFCN. The Packers were certainly in a dubious position at that stage in the schedule.

The Bears locked up the NFCN title by beating the Vikings. The Bear/Packer game was meaningless in the NFCN standings. That was known before the game with the Vikings.

Face it, Favre was hoping to see the Packers knocked out of the playoffs. The Packer/Bear game had no other meaning.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The Vikes OL gave up 34 sacks in 2009 and 36 sacks in 2010. Not really all that different.

Shiancoe is the #1 TE in MN, he didn't miss a game last year.

Some "facts" being thrown around here about these 2 items are not accurate.

[Scott Campbell]

We overcame all adversity to be Super Bowl Champs. Brett Favre can only tarnish that if we are silly enough to allow any of Favre's former actions to detract from our celebration of a Packer victory in concert as Packer fans. Arn't we bigger than rehashing stuff that 'is just old'?

GO PACKERS!

Brett Favre is the worst ex Packer in the history of the franchise. We will continue to celebrate his career and personal collapse, and Ted and the Packers ascension as we see fit. Because it is glorious!!!!!!!!!

[get louder at lambeau]

You did great in the first two paragraphs:

I predicted that the 2007 Patriots would win the Super Bowl. I had plenty of animosity for their cheating asses, but I predicted that they would win because they were a strong team. They were most people's pick, but many people still hated them for Spygate or whatever other reason. Most Jets fans would have picked them, despite intense animosity for them.

The Packers looked like a team of destiny and were the most common pick for Super Bowl champs at the time. when your infallible hero said that, Woodbuck. It doesn't mean he had no animosity. It just means he picked them as most likely to win because they were the most likely to win at that point. It means nothing with regard to animosity or lack thereof. get louder at lambeau

WOW. Impressive hard hitting post to that point and I can even buy it. Glad I'm not debating with you with the weapons I felt were at my disposal here. Manners and decency and an overall deportment of decency and let's really examine this without angst.

I would first have to ask for ' the same use of language rights ' and the forum could see which of us can outcurse the other. Toss the most shit at the other. Why does Brett Favre make you so angry?

No PLEASE. Do not respond to that. Just somehow examine it within yourself. Just a suggestion. Good luck with that.

I'm beginning to believe this question cannot be solved by mere members here. It might be better understood by some team of assigned psychologists that could examine the inherant psyche of the Packer forum community in terms of why in the name of all that's sane can anyone get so bloody well pissed off about a Pro atlelete that only gave his his best while wearing Packer colors.

GO PACKERS !

Uh, looks like you totally missed the point, Woodbuck. Maybe intentionally, as part of your undying defense of your hero?

The point was that Faver saying positive things about the Packers is beneficial to him. Therefor it could create a self-serving motive- to make himself look like a better person.

Saying petty, vindictive things about the Packers, on the other hand, has no value to anyone, yet he has done so repeatedly over the last few years. That shows animosity pretty clearly, IMO. It's his emotions taking control of his mouth. Nothing is gained by it, yet he does it anyway. Animosity.

When there is a possible motive for lying about one group of comments, and no clear motive for the opposite-intentioned group other than emotional realease, the group of comments without a possible eslf-serving motive is more credible. That's what I was saying with regard to your attempted defense of Faver's comments.

Do you have a different possible explanation? I mean a valid one, not just an attempted deflection of the issue to your own little critique of how you think I feel about ol' Brett?

[get louder at lambeau]

I guess about the only thing you could do in this case is to compare apples to apples.......different QBs in the same offense.

To whit:

Joe Webb in 5 games, 2010.................Comp/54 Att/89 % Comp/60.7 Yds/477 Avg/5.4 TD/0 Int/3 Sck/8 SckY/48 Rate/60.9

Brett Favre last 4 games, 2010............Comp/37 Att/69 % Comp/53.6 Yds/443 Avg/6.4 TD/1 Int/3 Sck/4 SckY/23 Rate/60.2

IOW, operating behind the same OL, with the same skill players, Brett Favre is ALMOST as good as Joe Webb. Awesome possum.

Woodbuck? Anything? Looks like he brought some significant evidence that discredits your theory here. You could at least reply.

[woodbuck27]

The Vikes OL gave up 34 sacks in 2009 and 36 sacks in 2010. Not really all that different.

Shiancoe is the #1 TE in MN, he didn't miss a game last year.

Some "facts" being thrown around here about these 2 items are not accurate.

The Vikes OL gave up 34 sacks in 2009 and 36 sacks in 2010 Cheesehead Craig

Your trying to make a point that the Vikings had or didn't have a serious OL problems in 2010? I can inform you confidently that one of greatest areas of concern on the Minnesota Vikings is and has been the performance of it's OL gointg back to the late 2009 season. THat that concern ( the Viking OL) as analyzed by NFL experts is something the Vikings need to address.


"Shiancoe is the #1 TE in MN, he didn't miss a game last year." Cheesehead Craig

Minnesota Viking #1 TE Visanthe Shiancoe suffering a hamstring injury prior to the start of the Vikings 5th game of the season
in week 5.

In 2009 Visanthe Shiancoe led the Vikings with 11 Red Zone TD pass's. In 2010 Shiancoe had only 2 TD pass's. Why was that? This is a physically gifted TE that uses his speed and power to be a prime target. In 2010 Visanthe Shiancoe was hampersed with a hamstring injury and as a result he was used moreso in blocking assignments.

Hamstring injuries take a long time to fully heal and allow an athlete to get back up to full speed. This injury goes a long ways to explaining Visanthe Shiancoe' role with the Viking offense in 2010 over that in the 2009 season.

Stats for Visanthe Shiancoe for the 2009 Vs the 2010 Seasons

Season Team Receiving Rushing Fumbles
...........................................G ...GS.... Rec.... Yds..... Avg.... Lng
2010 Minnesota Vikings .. 16... 9.... 47..... 530.... 11.3... 33 2
2009 Minnesota Vikings .. 16.. 13... 56..... 566.... 10.1....27 11

Minnesota Viking Injury Report for the 2010 season

Week 5

Name Position Injury Thu. Fri. Sat. Game Status

Cook, Chris CB Knee DNP DNP DNP Out
Favre, Brett QB Ankle / Right Elbow FP LP LP probable
McKinnie, Bryant T Finger FP FP FP probable
Shiancoe, Visanthe TE Hamstring LP LP LP probable
Sullivan, John C Calf LP LP LP questionable

Week 6

Cook, Chris CB Knee LP LP LP questionable
DeGeare, Chris OL Ankle DNP DNP DNP Out
Favre, Brett QB Ankle / Elbow DNP LP LP questionable
Robison, Brian DE Ankle LP LP FP probable
Sanford, Jamarca S Back DNP LP LP probable
Shiancoe, Visanthe TE Hamstring LP LP FP probable
Sullivan, John C Calf DNP LP LP questionable
Williams, Madieu S Shoulder LP LP FP probable

GO PACKERS!

[Scott Campbell]

[VermontPackFan]

lol...there has got to be one for Ryan Longwell also.

[woodbuck27]

Originally Posted by Iron Mike
I guess about the only thing you could do in this case is to compare apples to apples.......different QBs in the same offense.

To whit:

Joe Webb in 5 games, 2010.................Comp/54 Att/89 % Comp/60.7 Yds/477 Avg/5.4 TD/0 Int/3 Sck/8 SckY/48 Rate/60.9

Brett Favre last 4 games, 2010............Comp/37 Att/69 % Comp/53.6 Yds/443 Avg/6.4 TD/1 Int/3 Sck/4 SckY/23 Rate/60.2

IOW, operating behind the same OL, with the same skill players, Brett Favre is ALMOST as good as Joe Webb. Awesome possum.

Woodbuck? Anything? Looks like he brought some significant evidence that discredits your theory here. You could at least reply.

And...your point would be? (-:

Look at the flip side of that argument. Maybe your just getting started as an NFL fan? It's a complicated game in some senses but certainly not as concerns a teams offensive line.

Your Stat analysis clearly says that:

The Minny OL was as sucky in the games that the Favre backups started in as when Favre was forced to suffer playing behind center.

Does an NFL teams team's QB make the teams OL look good generally. I don't believe that's the case. It's the other way around boys. Any team that has a poor OL will see it's QB placed under extreme pressure. You get QB's with QB Ratings like we saw with Favre and also with his backups because the OL was not up to par all of last season.

Also. Joe Webb wasn't the Vikings starter for 5 games. Tarvaris Jacksson was lost to the Vikings with Turf Toe in Week 14 Vs the NY Giants. His replacement was 3rd stringer Joe Webb and Joe Webb played as the Viking Starting QB in 3 games last season. Weeks 15 thru 17.

GO PACKERS!

[get louder at lambeau]

Stats for Visanthe Shiancoe for the 2009 Vs the 2010 Seasons

Season Team Receiving Rushing Fumbles
...........................................G ...GS.... Rec.... Yds..... Avg.... Lng
2010 Minnesota Vikings .. 16... 9.... 47..... 530.... 11.3... 33 2
2009 Minnesota Vikings .. 16.. 13... 56..... 566.... 10.1....27 11

Those numbers look pretty similar to me. 36 less yards and a higher ypc don't back up your theory. Rodgers lost Finley and Grant for the year and did fine. Faver's gigantic decline was due to Rice and a slightly gimpy Shiancoe? Two more sacks did him in?

All the great ones dropped off somewhere near their 40th birthday or before. Why are you so unwilling to accept that Faver is human?

[get louder at lambeau]

Originally Posted by Iron Mike
I guess about the only thing you could do in this case is to compare apples to apples.......different QBs in the same offense.

To whit:

Joe Webb in 5 games, 2010.................Comp/54 Att/89 % Comp/60.7 Yds/477 Avg/5.4 TD/0 Int/3 Sck/8 SckY/48 Rate/60.9

Brett Favre last 4 games, 2010............Comp/37 Att/69 % Comp/53.6 Yds/443 Avg/6.4 TD/1 Int/3 Sck/4 SckY/23 Rate/60.2

IOW, operating behind the same OL, with the same skill players, Brett Favre is ALMOST as good as Joe Webb. Awesome possum.




And...your point would be? (-:

Look at the flip side of that argument. Maybe your just getting started as an NFL fan? It's a complicated game in some senses but certainly not as concerns a teams offensive line.

Your Stat analysis clearly says that:

The Minny OL was as sucky in the games that the Favre backups started in as when Favre was forced to suffer playing behind center.

Does an NFL teams team's QB make the teams OL look good generally. I don't believe that's the case. It's the other way around boys. Any team that has a poor OL will see it's QB placed under extreme pressure. You get QB's with QB Ratings like we saw with Favre and also with his backups because the OL was not up to par all of last season.

Also. Joe Webb wasn't the Vikings starter for 5 games. Tarvaris Jacksson was lost to the Vikings with Turf Toe in Week 14 Vs the NY Giants. His replacement was 3rd stringer Joe Webb and Joe Webb played as the Viking Starting QB in 3 games last season. Weeks 15 thru 17.

GO PACKERS!

My point? My stats? I just thought Iron Mike deserved a response, but you gave none. The rest is his. Wow, Woody. Pay attention.

[Bossman641]

WB you are confused. Shiancoe had less td cause favre sucked. Favre didn't suck because sh
iancoe was inured. Can't believe you are trying to use a player being probable as an injury excuse, especially after all the legit injuries the packers had this year.

[woodbuck27]

Uh, looks like you totally missed the point, Woodbuck. Maybe intentionally, as part of your undying defense of your hero?

The point was that Faver saying positive things about the Packers is beneficial to him. Therefor it could create a self-serving motive- to make himself look like a better person.

Saying petty, vindictive things about the Packers, on the other hand, has no value to anyone, yet he has done so repeatedly over the last few years. That shows animosity pretty clearly, IMO. It's his emotions taking control of his mouth. Nothing is gained by it, yet he does it anyway. Animosity.

When there is a possible motive for lying about one group of comments, and no clear motive for the opposite-intentioned group other than emotional realease, the group of comments without a possible eslf-serving motive is more credible. That's what I was saying with regard to your attempted defense of Faver's comments.

Do you have a different possible explanation? I mean a valid one, not just an attempted deflection of the issue to your own little critique of how you think I feel about ol' Brett?

Now there is 'a pot calling the kettle black' post if I ever saw one.

I have clearly stated that what Favre said to Peppers is nothing more tham gamesmanship amd why you take him or why anyone takes him to task over that is a merely hypocriticle stance. WE've all gone there in playing sports and in life generally sometimes. Sometimes we get carried up in too much emotion and don't think before we speak.

I do not imagine that Favre ever imagined his statement to Peppers would ever reach the press. It did. Such is the tenbor of Favre's iconic status in the NFL for so long. Look at this issue over this matter being hashe out here.

We are NFL capion team fans . This is the topic that needs to be addressed?

Hardly.

See you miss my point Sir. You miss it because 'in fact' your all emotionally wrapped up in anything Brett Favre.You must deny his humanness for some personal emotional reason that hardly interests me in terms of it's impact on you.

[Patler]

I do not imagine that Favre ever imagined his statement to Peppers would ever reach the press.

Which is all the more reason to view it as a truthful, uncensored statement of what Favre felt deep in his heart. Had he thought it would be made public, he would have sanitized it for image purposes.

[woodbuck27]

Those numbers look pretty similar to me. 36 less yards and a higher ypc don't back up your theory. Rodgers lost Finley and Grant for the year and did fine. Faver's gigantic decline was due to Rice and a slightly gimpy Shiancoe? Two more sacks did him in?

All the great ones dropped off somewhere near their 40th birthday or before. Why are you so unwilling to accept that Faver is human?

On this particular issue:

We are discussing the greatest Iron Man in the history of the NFL. We are discussing why he declined so much statistically in 2010 from 2009. My position is that even going back to the NFC Championship game Vs the Saints in the 2009 season. It was clear that Favre's OL wa killing him. Do you just read about 'the Packers'?

GO PACKERS!

[get louder at lambeau]

I still have my autographed Faver rookie hanging on my bedroom wall, Woodbuck. It's my most prized Packer possession, since I got it signed on the same day that he threw his first pass at Lambeau, just before he did it. I'm not the hater that you'd like to paint me to be. I'm a realist. I see both sides of the Faver coin- his greatness and his failings. I did even while he was in his prime and still playing for the Packers. I never considered him super human, so I'm not blinded by the sort of a hero worship relationship you seem to have with him.

You, on the other hand, just seem to ignore reality and focus only on things that you want to be true with regard to Brett, while ignoring any and all evidence to the contrary. That's why you are constantly arguing with some poster or another about him. It's always you vs. someone, and you always think it's the other person who doesn't see the truth, no matter who they are. You still can't see his warts, because you're too busy defending the guy. It's comical in a sad sort of way.


It's not all them, Woodbuck. It's you.