Jermichael Finley: What might the Green Bay Packers do?

[mraynrand]

But there comes a time when potential is meaningless, only actual performance counts. It's time to pay Finley based on actual performance, not potential.

sure, I agree

[mraynrand]

no no, not 5-7 dominate game

1 dominate game, the playoff game against arizona, 1 very good game (125 yards and a couple TD's i think), then he had 5-7 "good" games (85-115)

and we're still talking about finley in terms of potential, its been 6 seasons. at what point can we say do we lower the bar that he'll never get to and say "potential reached?"

it's not just yards, there were several games with multiple TDs (i think two against Chicago) and 'go to' success. Hell, I'd call the Cleveland game dominant, until he killed his career. I think the Redskins game when he first got hurt he was on path to a dominant game too. Some of that depends on your definition. i'm just saying you don't have to have most of the offense go through you to have a dominant game.

Still, Finley shot himself in the foot and that ruined his chances to get more touches (Rodgers losing confidence in him), but some of his reduction in targets came from having a lot of other targets.

Bottom line for me: Finley reached his potential in that he's able to put up monster games, but it doesn't happen often enough (say 1/3 of what I expected). Some (less than 1/3?) of that isn't his fault however.

[Mazzin]

BACK.....MAZZIN.....where have ya been ????

I never left knucklehead! I'm always lurking, but you guys are much more knowledgable than me when it comes to our beloved packers, hell more entertaining to. Oh yea, the other thing is when I post I get called out for being another member of the board. That got old years ago, but alas sometimes I just get that itch to throw out my 2 cents.

[3irty1]

No players in the league are paid on commission at the time they actually sign. You're paid on what you're expected to do going forward which is only kind of the same as potential. I pretty much agree with Patler that he should be paid better than an average TE but no where near his last contract. It's not all his fault but Finley has proven that a lot has to go right for him to pull his weight in Green Bay.

[Patler]

No players in the league are paid on commission at the time they actually sign. You're paid on what you're expected to do going forward which is only kind of the same as potential. I pretty much agree with Patler that he should be paid better than an average TE but no where near his last contract. It's not all his fault but Finley has proven that a lot has to go right for him to pull his weight in Green Bay.

Depending on how you look at it, I think it can be argued that many are paid for past performance. A lot of players are "underpaid" for several years, then are paid based on the assumption future performance will reflect past achievement. If it doesn't, many are cut.

Then there are roster and performance bonuses that do have a "commission" aspect to them.

[3irty1]

I think many are paid based on past performance. A lot of players are "underpaid" for several years, then are paid based on the assumption future performance will reflect past achievement. If it doesn't, many are cut.

Then there are roster and performance bonuses that do have a "commission" aspect to them.

You mean signing bonus? Roster bonus is the one that you get for being on the team in a future year which can mean its incentive or just to make an agent look good with money they'll unlikely have to pay. I guess you could call that commission but at the time of signing it might not seem that way.

[Smidgeon]

no no, not 5-7 dominate game

1 dominate game, the playoff game against arizona, 1 very good game (125 yards and a couple TD's i think), then he had 5-7 "good" games (85-115)

and we're still talking about finley in terms of potential, its been 6 seasons. at what point can do we lower the bar that he'll never get to and say "potential reached?"

I think his best days are behind him, so I'm not arguing to keep him.

But 85-115 yards being only "good" is a product of the TEs in New Orleans and New England. Before they changed expectations for everyone (with apologies to Gonzalez and Gates), 100 was a great performance by a TE.

[Fritz]

I dunno. I just think the dude is damaged goods now. His head more than his neck.

I'd put him down pretty far on the list of Packer free agent priorities. A healthy Quarless coming back on a cheapie contract (compared to what Finley would get), plus a rookie TE plus Bostick might outperform Finley for less money.

[Patler]

You mean signing bonus? Roster bonus is the one that you get for being on the team in a future year which can mean its incentive or just to make an agent look good with money they'll unlikely have to pay.

Actually, it can be either one.

A signing bonus can be used to reward a player for outperforming his contract in past years.

While a roster bonus sometimes is there just to increase the total value of a contract, most are legitimate aspects of compensation which the team expects to pay so long as the player continues to perform well. If the player does not continue to play well, he doesn't "earn" the roster bonus and is released before it is paid. A lot of contracts have relatively small roster bonuses in them, sometimes almost every year of the contract. It's only the exorbitantly high ones toward the ends of contracts that are the funny money that a team never expects to pay.

[3irty1]

Actually, it can be either one.

A signing bonus can be used to reward a player for outperforming his contract in past years.

While a roster bonus sometimes is there just to increase the total value of a contract, most are legitimate aspects of compensation which the team expects to pay so long as the player continues to perform well. If the player does not continue to play well, he doesn't "earn" the roster bonus and is released before it is paid. A lot of contracts have relatively small roster bonuses in them, sometimes almost every year of the contract. It's only the exorbitantly high ones toward the ends of contracts that are the funny money that a team never expects to pay.

Sure, I would say a signing bonus is more of a commission as its paid right away and puts more trust in a player to perform which would only exist if that player had already performed. Seeing as how you have to agree to a roster bonus before you play for it, commission doesn't seem like a good description. Mostly because its a pass/fail kind of thing. More so than commission its seems like the purpose of a roster bonus is to manipulate the cap situation.

[mraynrand]

Oh yea, the other thing is when I post I get called out for being another member of the board. That got old years ago....

I've been known to overdo it

UNSOUND!

[Patler]

Sure, I would say a signing bonus is more of a commission as its paid right away and puts more trust in a player to perform which would only exist if that player had already performed. Seeing as how you have to agree to a roster bonus before you play for it, commission doesn't seem like a good description. Mostly because its a pass/fail kind of thing. More so than commission its seems like the purpose of a roster bonus is to manipulate the cap situation.

I think of roster bonuses as delayed payments from the previous years. If you played well enough, you get it. If you didn't, they set you free. However, thay can be an easy vehicle to distribute payments to future caps by guaranteeing the roster bonus before the date it is due to be paid.

[pbmax]

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 39m
Healthy market forming for Packers TE Jermichael Finley, coming off injury. Not sure he gets longterm deal, but could do well on 1-2 yr

[red]

we'll see if there's still a big market for him after teams do physicals

also, lets not forget the 10 million dollar question.

if he's not offered a deal worth at least 10 million, then he might be better off walking around with a neck brace on and claiming his career if over. at this point, i'm not so sure he'll get a 2 year 10 million dollar deal for anyone with all the ?????????????????

[Brandon494]

He'll get paid

[3irty1]

we'll see if there's still a big market for him after teams do physicals

also, lets not forget the 10 million dollar question.

if he's not offered a deal worth at least 10 million, then he might be better off walking around with a neck brace on and claiming his career if over. at this point, i'm not so sure he'll get a 2 year 10 million dollar deal for anyone with all the ?????????????????

That's a tax free 10 million... he's for sure better off walking away. Just looks like he might not care.

[Joemailman]

That's a tax free 10 million... he's for sure better off walking away. Just looks like he might not care.

It's disability insurance. I would think he needs to be declared unfit to play by at least one doctor (probably more) before he can collect.

[red]

It's disability insurance. I would think he needs to be declared unfit to play by at least one doctor (probably more) before he can collect.

well i can think of two. the packers team doctor, and nick collins doctor

i think the story that came out a week or two ago about finley's surgery being totally different then collins surgery is complete BS by the way

[pbmax]

It's disability insurance. I would think he needs to be declared unfit to play by at least one doctor (probably more) before he can collect.

Oww! Oh my neck!

[Joemailman]

Your neck is fine!