JS ARTICLE "WITH SB IN SIGHT< RODGERS DOES NOT DELIVER

[Bretsky]

Interesting Breakdown by the Dobber

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...289705111.html

[woodbuck27]

This article is about TRUTH and in terms of Aaron Rodgers hopefully turns on 'the request for more' light. It's not only accurate but hard hitting journalism that many in here cannot deal with in terms of 'yes Bob McGinn nailed it'.

There is 'no excuse' for losing. There is 'no gain' after losing in playing the blame game. The worst defeat in Green Bay Packer history should be all that's needed to do all that's necessary for the proper response next season.

Win the Super Bowl.

The potential for Aaron Rodgers is incredible. He's reached his peak and the time to take advantage of that is now. The question is:

Will Aaron Rodgers ever answer the bell again to get to that last round and win?

The NFL HOF expects more of a response from Aaron Rodgers. Greatness only lives through great performances. Can Aaron Rodgers perform again on that stage?

[Pugger]

But is this really the worst defeat in Packer history or does it just seem this way because it so recent and we are still in mourning? Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF? Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? These are not pertinent questions at all. I'm just curious what the consensus is with everyone here.

[Joemailman]

McGinn barely mentions Rodgers' injury, and even then he reduces it to Rodgers being trapped in the pocket. It was much more than that. I think the injury affected his throws, and also affected how Seattle played defense. They did not need to worry about Rodgers taking off and running, or even buy a lot of time by rolling out. Rodgers is classy enough not to use the injury as an excuse for his play, which makes him a good target for McGinn.

McGinn also does not mention that with the score 19-7 McCarthy took the ball out of Rodgers' hands. By the time Rodgers got the ball back, the Packers were down 22-19. He then led the Packers 48 yards in just over a minute for the tying field goal, completing 3-5 passes for 36 yards and limping for a 12 yard run. It was not Rodgers' best performance. But the team was up 19-7 with 5 minutes to go, and the fact that they blew it had nothing to do with Rodgers.

[Pugger]

McGinn barely mentions Rodgers' injury, and even then he reduces it to Rodgers being trapped in the pocket. It was much more than that. I think the injury affected his throws, and also affected how Seattle played defense. They did not need to worry about Rodgers taking off and running, or even buy a lot of time by rolling out. Rodgers is classy enough not to use the injury as an excuse for his play, which makes him a good target for McGinn.

McGinn also does not mention that with the score 19-7 McCarthy took the ball out of Rodgers' hands. By the time Rodgers got the ball back, the Packers were down 22-19. He then led the Packers 48 yards in just over a minute for the tying field goal, completing 3-5 passes for 36 yards and limping for a 12 yard run. It was not Rodgers' best performance. But the team was up 19-7 with 5 minutes to go, and the fact that they blew it had nothing to do with Rodgers.

Not many want to discuss Rodgers' injury and how it affected the game. When I tried to on another forum I was chastised for making excuses. But you are right, Aaron's injury hurt is accuracy and his lack of mobility changed the way Seattle defended us and took away one of the main things that makes Rodgers the most dangerous QB in the league for our adversaries to beat.

[woodbuck27]

But is this really the worst defeat in Packer history or does it just seem this way because it so recent and we are still in mourning? Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF? Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? These are not pertinent questions at all. I'm just curious what the consensus is with everyone here.

Pugger you won't get jumped on here because too many see it as you do. The trouble is you cannot will things away. It is exactly what it is.

This has been reported:

The Green Bay Packers suffered the greatest collapse in the second half, in NFC Championship history last Sunday in Seattle.

If you can disprove that please come back to us with the proof.



** "Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF?" Pugger

I don't believe this loss is a defining event that will necessarily cause Aaron Rodgers from being legitimately in the conversation as a future NFL HOF candidate.



** " Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? " Pugger

Aaron Rodgers and retiring today isn't realistic as a topic of discussion. His contract and a chance for redemption after this ugly loss is all that Aaron Rodgers needs to come back next season.

As his playoff record stands at present, Aaron Rodgers needs to demonstrate more accomplishment to make the NFL HOF.



** " These are not pertinent questions at all. " Pugger

Excuse me but if the questions aren't pertinent why ask them in your post?

[woodbuck27]

Not many want to discuss Rodgers' injury and how it affected the game. When I tried to on another forum I was chastised for making excuses. But you are right, Aaron's injury hurt is accuracy and his lack of mobility changed the way Seattle defended us and took away one of the main things that makes Rodgers the most dangerous QB in the league for our adversaries to beat.

Bob McGinn certainly comments on Aaron Rodgers mobility issues in his article.

** "In the third quarter, Rodgers stepped funny on a second-down screen to Eddie Lacy that promised to be a long gainer. It's like Rodgers instantly fell apart, bailed and missed the simple 10-yard throw and, after he held the ball too long (4.4 seconds) for a third-down sack, out trotted the punt team."



** "Rodgers finally came alive on two 15-yard completions and a 12-yard scramble to the Seattle 36. Thirty-five seconds remained."


** " How much was Rodgers limited by his calf injury? You could see he felt trapped inside the pocket at times, and the Seahawks cover initially extremely well.

Rodgers did have the capacity to run fast and extend plays to his heart's content in the Sept. 4 defeat at CenturyLink Field. He was equally ineffective that night, too." Bob McGinn


** " In Rodgers' six postseason victories, his passer rating of 111.8 is 38.4 points higher than the opposing quarterbacks.

In his five defeats, Rodgers' rating of 89.4 is 9.1 points lower than the opposition. Warner, Eli Manning, Colin Kaepernick (twice) and Wilson also have combined to outrush him, 314-130. "

[Bretsky]

But is this really the worst defeat in Packer history or does it just seem this way because it so recent and we are still in mourning? Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF? Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? These are not pertinent questions at all. I'm just curious what the consensus is with everyone here.

I've said this in another thread.............can u think of any worse ? I can't.

[woodbuck27]

But is this really the worst defeat in Packer history or does it just seem this way because it so recent and we are still in mourning? Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF? Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? These are not pertinent questions at all. I'm just curious what the consensus is with everyone here.

What do Packerrats think in regards to your first question above:

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...yoff-loss-ever

[pbmax]

This has been reported:

The Green Bay Packers suffered the greatest collapse in the second half, in NFC Championship history last Sunday in Seattle.

If you can disprove that please come back to us with the proof.

The worst defeat in Green Bay Packer history

These are not the same things. One is a number for one set of games that has existed for precisely 46 years and 46 games (NFC Championship).

The other is the subjective measure of the worst outcome in the entire history of the Green Bay Packers franchise. All 1339 games.

That you think the worst defeat in the history has been reported as *FACT* by the NFC Championship factoid is just muddled thinking.


EDIT: My typing was middled.

[hoosier]

In Rodgers' six postseason victories, his passer rating of 111.8 is 38.4 points higher than the opposing quarterbacks.

In his five defeats, Rodgers' rating of 89.4 is 9.1 points lower than the opposition. Warner, Eli Manning, Colin Kaepernick (twice) and Wilson also have combined to outrush him, 314-130.

Rodgers's QB rating is lower than the opponents in games the Packers have lost, and higher than the opp in games they have won? Shocking, simply shocking.

[hoosier]

That you think the worst defeat in the history has been reported as *FACT* by the NFC Championship factoid is just middled thinking.

Middled thinking, I like that. It conjures up the image of a squirrel in the middle of the road facing oncoming traffic, trying to go both ways at the same time. Fortuitous typo.

[pbmax]

And really Bob? When he wins he plays better and when he loses he plays worse? Why doesn't he just play better ALL-THE-TIME?

Must be his fire, girfriend or commercials. Newspapers won't be revived by rampaging stupidity.

"In multiple seasons, from 1980 to 2014, in the Playoffs, requiring Pass Attempts >= 75, sorted by descending Passer Rating." More than 75 passes to weed out one game wonders or RBs who threw an option pass in 3 different games. This removed Lynn Dickey, unfortunately (playoff passer rating of 101.8)

Rk                      From   To  Lg  Tm  G  W  L T  W-L%  Cmp  Att  Cmp%  Yds   TD  Int  Rate  Y/A  AY/A
1        Jeff Hostetler 1990 1993 NFL TOT  5  4  1 0 0.800   72  115 62.61 1034    7    0 112.0 8.99 10.21
2            Alex Smith 2011 2013 NFL TOT  3  1  2 0 0.333   66  114 57.89  873    9    0 108.6 7.66  9.24
3           Kurt Warner 1999 2009 NFL TOT 13  9  4 0 0.692  307  462 66.45 3952   31   14 102.8 8.55  8.53
4         Aaron Rodgers 2007 2014 NFL GNB 12  7  5 0 0.583  253  387 65.37 2983   23    7 101.0 7.71  8.08
5            Drew Brees 2004 2013 NFL TOT 11  6  5 0 0.545  306  464 65.95 3539   24    6 100.7 7.63  8.08
6          Ken Anderson 1981 1982 NFL CIN  4  2  2 0 0.500   79  112 70.54 1007    7    5 100.6 8.99  8.23
7           Erik Kramer 1991 1994 NFL TOT  4  1  3 0 0.250   91  130 70.00  999    6    3  98.2 7.68  7.57
8           Frank Reich 1990 1997 NFL TOT  7  4  3 0 0.571   67  104 64.42  783    7    3  97.6 7.53  7.58
9        Russell Wilson 2012 2014 NFL SEA  7  6  1 0 0.857  111  181 61.33 1573   10    5  96.3 8.69  8.55
10         Joe Montana* 1981 1994 NFL TOT 23 16  7 0 0.696  460  734 62.67 5772   45   21  95.6 7.86  7.80
11         Mark Sanchez 2009 2010 NFL NYJ  6  4  2 0 0.667   95  157 60.51 1155    9    3  94.3 7.36  7.64
12          Jeff George 1995 1999 NFL TOT  3  1  2 0 0.333   71  129 55.04 1001    9    3  93.8 7.76  8.11
13            Tony Romo 2006 2014 NFL DAL  6  2  4 0 0.333  114  185 61.62 1316    8    2  93.0 7.11  7.49
14     Matthew Stafford 2011 2014 NFL DET  2  0  2 0 0.000   56   85 65.88  703    4    3  92.4 8.27  7.62
15         Aaron Brooks 2000 2000 NFL NOR  2  1  1 0 0.500   46   77 59.74  561    6    3  92.0 7.29  7.09
16        Joe Theismann 1982 1984 NFL WAS  8  6  2 0 0.750  128  211 60.66 1782   11    7  91.4 8.45  8.00
17          Eli Manning 2005 2011 NFL NYG 11  8  3 0 0.727  219  356 61.52 2516   17    8  89.3 7.07  7.01
18           Joe Flacco 2008 2014 NFL RAV 15 10  5 0 0.667  253  447 56.60 3223   25   10  88.6 7.21  7.32
19            Tom Brady 2001 2014 NFL NWE 28 20  8 0 0.714  646 1035 62.42 7017   49   24  88.5 6.78  6.68
20       Peyton Manning 1999 2014 NFL TOT 24 11 13 0 0.458  598  935 63.96 6800   38   24  88.5 7.27  6.93
Rk                      From   To  Lg  Tm  G  W  L T  W-L%  Cmp  Att  Cmp%  Yds   TD  Int  Rate  Y/A  AY/A
21         Troy Aikman* 1991 1999 NFL DAL 16 11  5 0 0.688  320  502 63.75 3849   23   17  88.3 7.67  7.06
22          Matt Schaub 2012 2012 NFL HTX  2  1  1 0 0.500   63   89 70.79  605    2    2  87.5 6.80  6.24
23     Colin Kaepernick 2012 2013 NFL SFO  6  4  2 0 0.667   94  162 58.02 1374    7    5  87.3 8.48  7.96
24          Brett Favre 1993 2009 NFL TOT 24 13 11 0 0.542  481  791 60.81 5855   44   30  86.3 7.40  6.81
25         Steve Young* 1987 1998 NFL SFO 20 12  8 0 0.600  292  471 62.00 3326   20   13  85.8 7.06  6.67
26        Philip Rivers 2006 2013 NFL SDG  9  4  5 0 0.444  164  272 60.29 2165   11    9  85.2 7.96  7.28
27            Matt Ryan 2008 2012 NFL ATL  5  1  4 0 0.200  124  187 66.31 1230    9    7  85.2 6.58  5.86
28         Warren Moon* 1987 1994 NFL TOT 10  3  7 0 0.300  259  403 64.27 2870   17   14  84.9 7.12  6.40
29          Rich Gannon 1987 2002 NFL TOT 10  5  5 0 0.500  154  240 64.17 1691   11    9  84.6 7.05  6.28
30      Matt Hasselbeck 2003 2010 NFL SEA 11  5  6 0 0.455  236  406 58.13 2741   18    9  84.2 6.75  6.64

[pbmax]

What has changed is that defenses have adjusted to this offense since late 2011 and its still not clear the Packers have adjusted (though there have been signs) and the changing of the receiver corp has meant that it seems possible now to game plan the Packer passing attack away with a talented Defense.

And as mentioned above by Joe, the idea that you need to "get back" to pinpoint passing by looking off Troy Polamalu and throwing it behind his earhole is great, if your leg was functioning.

This is just trolling.

There are things he has to work on. He still doesn't look short fast enough, and he still holds onto the ball too long while rarely throwing it away. And something in their audible system has gone awry, I saw Rodgers check into more bad runs this year than ever before. But this is a team issue, not a QB issue.

The fact of the matter is that Dom Capers has out-coordinated McCarthy at the end of the season two years in a row.

[woodbuck27]

These are not the same things. One is a number for one set of games that has existed for precisely 46 years and 46 games (NFC Championship).

The other is the subjective measure of the worst outcome in the entire history of the Green Bay Packers franchise. All 1339 games.

That you think the worst defeat in the history has been reported as *FACT* by the NFC Championship factoid is just muddled thinking.


EDIT: My typing was middled.

Originally Posted by woodbuck27

" The worst defeat in Green Bay Packer history" woodbuck27

I withdraw that remark as it would be a mere opinion.


As to the rest of it:

Last Sunday It was reported that the Green Bay Packers suffered the worst comeback in NFC Championship history.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...yoff-loss-ever

The above says that 12 of 17 Packerrats feel last Sundays collapse in Seattle was the worst playoff loss of 8 prominent losses in the Packers more recent history.

I suffered through the Packers history following Super Bowls I and II. I'm certainly well aware of many poor performances before the team won another Super Bowl or Super Bowl XXXI. That was almost 3 decades of disappointment.

[Freak Out]

The Packers with a healthy Rodgers destroys the Chickens in that game.. My take.

[Freak Out]

What has changed is that defenses have adjusted to this offense since late 2011 and its still not clear the Packers have adjusted (though there have been signs) and the changing of the receiver corp has meant that it seems possible now to game plan the Packer passing attack away with a talented Defense.

And as mentioned above by Joe, the idea that you need to "get back" to pinpoint passing by looking off Troy Polamalu and throwing it behind his earhole is great, if your leg was functioning.

This is just trolling.

There are things he has to work on. He still doesn't look short fast enough, and he still holds onto the ball too long while rarely throwing it away. And something in their audible system has gone awry, I saw Rodgers check into more bad runs this year than ever before. But this is a team issue, not a QB issue.

The fact of the matter is that Dom Capers has out-coordinated McCarthy at the end of the season two years in a row.

Dom for HC.

[pbmax]

Originally Posted by woodbuck27

" The worst defeat in Green Bay Packer history" woodbuck27

I withdraw that remark as it would be a mere opinion.


As to the rest of it:

Last Sunday It was reported that the Green Bay Packers suffered the worst comeback in NFC Championship history.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...yoff-loss-ever

The above says that 12 of 17 Packerrats feel last Sundays collapse in Seattle was the worst playoff loss of 8 prominent losses in the Packers more recent history.

I suffered through the Packers history following Super Bowls I and II. I'm certainly well aware of many poor performances before the team won another Super Bowl or Super Bowl XXXI. That was almost 3 decades of disappointment.

45 years of fan memories is impressive. But it also skips the 45 years before that. And there has been somewhere between 42 and 46 NFC Championship games. Really small sample size.

As for the 12 of 17, a survey immediately after the game is a terrible way to put a loss into perspective.

But, in terms of the article, the rank of terribleness in this loss is immaterial to the main point. Rodgers poor play is indicative of several things. Its not indicative that he needs to be an even bigger part of the team.

[Pugger]

Pugger you won't get jumped on here because too many see it as you do. The trouble is you cannot will things away. It is exactly what it is.

This has been reported:

The Green Bay Packers suffered the greatest collapse in the second half, in NFC Championship history last Sunday in Seattle.

If you can disprove that please come back to us with the proof.



** "Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF?" Pugger

I don't believe this loss is a defining event that will necessarily cause Aaron Rodgers from being legitimately in the conversation as a future NFL HOF candidate.



** " Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? " Pugger

Aaron Rodgers and retiring today isn't realistic as a topic of discussion. His contract and a chance for redemption after this ugly loss is all that Aaron Rodgers needs to come back next season.

As his playoff record stands at present, Aaron Rodgers needs to demonstrate more accomplishment to make the NFL HOF.



** " These are not pertinent questions at all. " Pugger

Excuse me but if the questions aren't pertinent why ask them in your post?

It may have been the biggest collapse in NFCC history but was it the worst in team history? I'd say December 7, 1980. The Chicago Bears beat Green Bay 61 - 7 was worse.

Am I understanding you correctly that you don't think right now if something happened to Rodgers and he had to retire tomorrow he hasn't accomplished enough to make the HOF?

Perhaps pertinent was the wrong adjective. I guess I meant I wasn't being cheeky asking these questions.

[mraynrand]

It's hard to see how the loss can be blamed significantly on Rodgers. Let's review. Packers are up by 12 and McCarthy calls two runs and pass to Q. Runs go nowhere and q drops a defensed pass. Rodgers doesn't see the ball again until the packers are down by three with about a minute left. Rodgers just leads them to a tying FG to force OT and never sees the ball again.

Could Rodgers have played better to put Seattle away earlier? I suppose, but many of the play calls were taken out of his hand - many red zone runs and no fourth down attempts. Plus, he was injured.

Because he's the QB, he'll shoulder more blame, but an objective analysis of the game shows he only contributed in part to the loss, and probably a lot less than poor defense and STs in the last 5 minutes and OT, and a lot less than play calling choices.

Generally, I think a game like this is more of a Rorschach test for fans. The more emotive fans will generally heap blame on Rodgers because they really don't understand football and/or are of very low mental wattage.