The Meadow?

[pbmax]

I came here to offer an example of conduct that I think needs to be stopped, since I don't wish to be accused of hiding in dark corners or being a pussy (non-gender specific variety spinelessness).

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...048#post667048

I'd be even more surprised if you didn't threaten a Rat...or your hero Finley didn't impregnate/give another poor girl herpes who is not his wife this week.

The list of transgressions this single line contains is impressive, its close to Skin's work. As the work of a troll, its impressive. But its also in the Packer's forum. And as such there is no reason for it to continue to display.

A lot of heat and debate has been created about how to encourage and expand PackerRats. I doubt there is much of an audience for this crap in a football forum.

The Packer Forum can continue to be an experiment in free speech and effective self-regulation. But if its going to grow it needs to be about football. Not drama or personal insults.

Someone needs the authority to just delete the comment. Clean, no drama about the comment. If someone wants to move it to RR, FYI or the Meadow to discuss it, fine. But it doesn't belong in the Packer Forum. There is no argument I am aware of that continuing to accept quality trolling will increase visitors or usage in that Forum. Ignoring Snake isn't a good alternative as much of his material is well worth the read. Banning someone (or suspending them) is unnecessary for a single mistake. Harlan's leave alone request is backwards for that Forum. There has to be a different standard for a post to stay.

That post needs to disappear. My 2 cents.

[SkinBasket]

That post needs to disappear. My 2 cents.

So, essentially, now personal quips about players based on allegations shouldn't be tolerated? I'm not sure what's trolling about someone adding a little humor to their post. Unless there's some context to the first sentence that makes this all somehow more nefarious than it looks.

You're being a total pussy, BTW. Transgressions? Transgressing what? Finely's fine moral character?

It's not like snake graphically described how Finley face fucked some woman and gave her head herpies or talked about how terrible Finley looks in Brandon's avatars.

[pbmax]

So, essentially, now personal quips about players based on allegations shouldn't be tolerated? I'm not sure what's trolling about someone adding a little humor to their post. Unless there's some context to the first sentence that makes this all somehow more nefarious than it looks.

You're being a total pussy, BTW. Transgressions? Transgressing what? Finely's fine moral character?

It's not like snake graphically described how Finley face fucked some woman and gave her head herpies or talked about how terrible Finley looks in Brandon's avatars.

Let's do the fine tooth items first, then the broader point.

1. Its an insult designed to troll the target, as Finley has been a bone of contention between several posters and Brandon, with both sides making a personal issue of it.
2. Its the worst kind of rumor, uninteresting and recycled. As boring as the one about the local weatherman was recently in the hospital to have an emergency gerbil-ectomy. Or that the local college coach has a piece on the side. Or that Rod Stewart collapsed during a concert ... well, you get the idea.
3. Its an insinuation about murder.
4. Its not funny or enlightening. And its doesn't address the thread at all.

Now someone could differ on those points. So lets get to the larger issues that goes to the debate Campbell and Rand are having.

1. If you tally up the losses, more contributing posters have been lost to the Packer forum because of personal insults/attacks and endless arguing than lack of posting freedom. While this may not be true at all for the RR, FYI or the Garbage Can, this behavior has hurt the Packer forum.

2. If the goal is to grow it again, I think a clear line needs to be drawn there, different than the other forums. Herpes rumors probably draw web traffic as a matter of SEO, but they don't lead to posts about the Packers.

3. Characters might draw in regular users and make PR distinct from other sites. And I like the Characters very much. But insult posts in the Packer forum do not attract the public at large, I think the evidence of posters and posts in the Packer forum is that Characters are limited in their ability to draw new blood. I would go so far as to say the current mini resurgence after the recent "sign up or you can't read" membership drive has benefited from a lack of sniping.

To appreciate the Characters it helps to know The Tank, the Partial and the Lawyerin' Joe. And fewer of us do. We are short Partial, Tank, and Bigguns because their posting arguments consumed so much oxygen that those valuable posters were driving others away. Or some (Nutz and others) tired of the whole situation and left.

You can't have a play if no one is sitting in the seats.

If Mad were to adopt the guidelines above, I would probably have at least 20 posts mocking Bretsky about the criminal Odell Thurman immediately removed. But I am just clever enough to make a football point AND mention Odell Thurman in a post about the draft. And I am smart enough to know Bresky will take it in stride. I think everyone else is at least my equal in this regard.

[Harlan Huckleby]

1. If you tally up the losses, more contributing posters have been lost to the Packer forum because of personal insults/attacks and endless arguing than lack of posting freedom. While this may not be true at all for the RR, FYI or the Garbage Can, this behavior has hurt the Packer forum.

I wonder if this is true. If it is so, I would think the repetitive insulters could be easily identified. I also think the "leave people alone who express through words and action that they don't want to keep it up" ought to be successful guideline.

I can't believe that the sort of comment that Snake made is driving people out of the Packer forum.

[woodbuck27]

I wonder if this is true. If it is so, I would think the repetitive insulters could be easily identified. I also think the "leave people alone who express through words and action that they don't want to keep it up" ought to be successful guideline.

I can't believe that the sort of comment that Snake made is driving people out of the Packer forum.

I agree with your assessment of the matter here harlan.It's the personal attacks that do the damage. The degree and verascity of the insult left to stand. How can a member defend him/herself?

The insult can be beyond a matter of decency 'to gross insult' and attack that has no objective foundation.

It's that uncalled for or unreasonable attack that does serious damage. Without any recourse for an amend.

In real life a person sues. Here the humiliation 'simply' stands. The gross misconduct is actually applauded by 'the most insensative' members that enjoy 'the humiliation' that their need for the feeding frenzy satisfied as the insulted member defends his/he name/person.

The sickness spreads. Packerrats as it was intended to be is compromised.

[Scott Campbell]

If Mad were to adopt the guidelines above, I would probably have at least 20 posts mocking Bretsky about the criminal Odell Thurman immediately removed.

This is the master plan to quadruple membership?

Really???????

Just how many posters have we lost to the Odell Thurman wars? I guess I didn't realize it was such a controversial issue.






Good Lord, do we really need all knowing moderators to change our diapers for us?



There are many methods of measuring and encouraging the growth of content production from the membership. And most of those methods have nothing to do with censoring disruptive behavior.

[mraynrand]

There are many methods of measuring and encouraging the growth of content production from the membership. And most of those methods have nothing to do with censoring disruptive behavior.

maybe you should share them with madtown

[SkinBasket]

Let's do the fine tooth items first, then the broader point.

1. Its an insult designed to troll the target, as Finley has been a bone of contention between several posters and Brandon, with both sides making a personal issue of it.
2. Its the worst kind of rumor, uninteresting and recycled. As boring as the one about the local weatherman was recently in the hospital to have an emergency gerbil-ectomy. Or that the local college coach has a piece on the side. Or that Rod Stewart collapsed during a concert ... well, you get the idea.
3. Its an insinuation about murder.
4. Its not funny or enlightening. And its doesn't address the thread at all.

So basically you want to zero in on a rather innocuous post for the larger problem it represents and delete it. And that's going to solve the bigger problem between brandon and those who disagree with him?

I understand the notion that some people are leaving because other people are acting like asshats. But if someone's going to get upset because another poster claims a football player has a STD and might be banging women other than his wife, then maybe that person isn't really cut out for this whole internet forum thing.

I think you're overreacting about the insinuation of murder, especially given the bar that Tarlam set. Brandon isn't murdering anyone. Shit, the guy can't even get far enough out of the suburbs to find anyone his own color. So Snake making some quip that not even brandon understood about threatening rats didn't really strike me as dangerous, even on the very small chance snake was sober.

As far as the humor aspect, I think it's a bad idea to police what is and isn't funny. Madtown and retail already tried that and killed the RR. You're a great active, insightful poster, but I don't think that should mean you get to demand a humorless, entirely dispassionate discussion of football. Especially a discussion which you willingly choose to engage in with the assistance of a seemingly much ignored IGNORE feature.

Speaking of which, I remember the great outcry for the Ignore feature. It was going to save the forum, cure cancer, and bring the 99% and the 1% together. It's strange how much some posters are still bothered by other posters who they have the ability to completely delete from their own experience. You want the post deleted? Ignore the poster. Problem solved.

[MadtownPacker]

1. Brandon isn't murdering anyone. Shit, the guy can't even get far enough out of the suburbs to find anyone his own color.

2. As far as the humor aspect, I think it's a bad idea to police what is and isn't funny. Madtown and retail already tried that and killed the RR. You're a great active, insightful poster, but I don't think that should mean you get to demand a humorless, entirely dispassionate discussion of football. Especially a discussion which you willingly choose to engage in with the assistance of a seemingly much ignored IGNORE feature.

3. Speaking of which, I remember the great outcry for the Ignore feature. It was going to save the forum, cure cancer, and bring the 99% and the 1% together. It's strange how much some posters are still bothered by other posters who they have the ability to completely delete from their own experience. You want the post deleted? Ignore the poster. Problem solved.

1. Haha! Now that is a nugget. Points for Whitey on that one.

2. You are right. The RR should not have to be policed. But that also means posters needs to have some common sense. What good is the GC is there are no boundaries in the RR? It also would make sense the Packers area stay mostly on topic with football. But I agree that colorful comments like the ones that have provided are not the issue. What appears to be bad intended post like Snakes need to be simmered. People fucking up threads need to be addressed. Didnt I jam up Woody about his link infestation?

3. Does the ignore feature work when others reply to someone you ignored? I dont know. I will check. But when someone you ignore is bringing the issue up with other posters I imagine you can read it in their replies.

[Scott Campbell]

I came here to offer an example of conduct that I think needs to be stopped, since I don't wish to be accused of hiding in dark corners or being a pussy (non-gender specific variety spinelessness).

I appreciate the open an honest communication. And the little dig. Nicely done!

Though I agree that Snake was out of line and offensive, I disagree with your call for censorship. I think the issue was adequately dealt with in the thread.

Even if it's the right thing to do in this case, it's too slippery of a slope. Just my opinion.

[Scott Campbell]

A lot of heat and debate has been created about how to encourage and expand PackerRats. I doubt there is much of an audience for this crap in a football forum.

I respectfully disagree with this. I think there are 2 draws to this place:

1) Characters.
2) Content.

You view would seem to place a premium on the content over the characters. I would value them equally.

I think all the posts reminiscing about Partial and Ty are evidence as to the value of the characters.

[mraynrand]

I respectfully disagree with this. I think there are 2 draws to this place:

1) Characters.
2) Content.

You view would seem to place a premium on the content over the characters. I would value them equally.

I think all the posts reminiscing about Partial and Ty are evidence as to the value of the characters.

If you eliminate the crap PB is talking about, do you eliminate the characters?

[Scott Campbell]

If you eliminate the crap PB is talking about, do you eliminate the characters?

Good question.

[woodbuck27]

I came here to offer an example of conduct that I think needs to be stopped, since I don't wish to be accused of hiding in dark corners or being a pussy (non-gender specific variety spinelessness).

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...048#post667048

The list of transgressions this single line contains is impressive, its close to Skin's work. As the work of a troll, its impressive. But its also in the Packer's forum. And as such there is no reason for it to continue to display.

A lot of heat and debate has been created about how to encourage and expand PackerRats. I doubt there is much of an audience for this crap in a football forum.

The Packer Forum can continue to be an experiment in free speech and effective self-regulation. But if its going to grow it needs to be about football. Not drama or personal insults.

Someone needs the authority to just delete the comment. Clean, no drama about the comment. If someone wants to move it to RR, FYI or the Meadow to discuss it, fine. But it doesn't belong in the Packer Forum. There is no argument I am aware of that continuing to accept quality trolling will increase visitors or usage in that Forum. Ignoring Snake isn't a good alternative as much of his material is well worth the read. Banning someone (or suspending them) is unnecessary for a single mistake. Harlan's leave alone request is backwards for that Forum. There has to be a different standard for a post to stay.

That post needs to disappear. My 2 cents.

Here's my 2 cents in terms of specific violations of what a post should NOT be in terms of verascity:

What about a member here unqualified to do so posting that another member is mentally ill. You don't see that as crossing over any line pbmax?

I can tell you this. My parents didn't raise nor need to deal with any mentally ill children or raise them as they did to ever imagine they wouldn't be strong enough to avoid the stigma associated with such a slanderous accusation as Scott campbell insists upon over and over inferring upon me.

That has to STOP that has to be removed from the record of this forum.I do not expect he could apologize he doesn't have to decency or common sence to do somand if he diod it is BS as he is not capable of sincerety.

Scott Campbell insults not only me but my parents. Scott campbell insults my entire family tree.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Scott campbell insults my entire family tree.

well, you have to admit, there are have been some curious twists and turns.




Here is the family tree whence I emerged: