official 2014 nfl draft thread

[pbmax]

someone needs to hurry up and shoot that asshole

i should be getting ready to watch round 2 right now, NOT sitting here talking about prospects for the next 2 weeks with you jack-offs

no offense

I am with you. Soon I will forget the lesson of all the drafts of my youth and begin to make predictions sure to be proven wrong.

BTW, with no sure fire prospect at 21 and a bunch of similar grades (and Bretsky begin for one of his three to fall to the Packers-which will happen) its a mortal lock Ted trades down.

Or selects free falling Johnny Manziel.

[woodbuck27]

If we draft a WR with our 1st pick I hope its Kelvin Benjamin.

TT won't like 10th ranked WR Kelvin Benjamin (6' - 5" and 240 lbs) as a prospective pick at #21. I predict that he's going to see 4-5 WR's come off the board ahead of him.

[/B]TT has many better options as a BPA on "D" and "WR".

WR prospect Kelvin Benjamin has these negative criticisms;

1. He doesn't run good routes yet. He'll take time to develop for useful gain in the NFL On top of this he runs a 4.61 40 yard dash and he's not strong with 13 rep's - bench.

See talk about a conversion to TE. Looking at film. Will he be a decent blocker? I see him as a project and our 1st Rd. pick needs to produce in 2014.

2. He catches the ball with his body.

3. He blows pass's and is especially weak on low throws (see his height)

4. He needs to get stronger. Bench = 13 reps.

5. Will he be a WR/TE tweener !? Ted Thompson won't consider a tweener in Rd.

It's my view that Kelvin Benjamin won't be TT's first round pick (at #21) in the 2014 draft.

************************************************** ********************

** Better WR Options ** @ Pick #21:

A.) ** WR O'Dell Beckham Jr., LSU ... ( 5 '-11 " and 198 lbs ....size !? ) and a 4.43 40 yard dash.

B.) ** A special athlete: Brandin Cooks, Oregon State (Junior) ... ( 5 '-10 " and 189 lbs = size issue) and a very fast 4.33 40 yard dash and 16 Reps Bench; 36" Vert. and 10' - 0" broad. 6.81 shuttle and 6.76 shuttle.

Others: '

C.) Marqise Lee, S. CAL ... ( 6 '- 0 " and 192 lbs. ) ....a 4.52 40 Yards but better height and a 38 inch Vert. . . . . a projected 2nd Rd. pick.

D.) Allen Robinson, Penn State ... SIZE @ 6'-3' and 220 lbs ! ... 4.60 40 yard dash and a Verticle of 39 inches and a 10 ' - 7 " Broad. . . . . . a projected 2nd Rd. pick.

[smuggler]

If we could get Robinson in the 2nd, I would be thrilled?

[Brandon494]

1. He doesn't run good routes yet. He'll take time to develop for useful gain in the NFL On top of this he runs a 4.61 40 yard dash and he's not strong with 13 rep's - bench.

See talk about a conversion to TE. Looking at film. Will he be a decent blocker? I see him as a project and our 1st Rd. pick needs to produce in 2014.

You don't have the run the best routes when you have a catching radius of a NBA center.

2. He catches the ball with his body.

No he doesn't, he actually has strong hands. He is similar to T.O. with drop passes though

3. He blows pass's and is especially weak on low throws (see his height)

I don't even know what you mean by he blows pass's but why would you throw the ball low to him when he can out jump any corner?

4. He needs to get stronger. Bench = 13 reps.

Sammy Watkins put up 16 and Mike Evans put up 12 reps...those are the top 2 WRs in the draft btw while your boy Beckham put up 7.

5. Will he be a WR/TE tweener !? Ted Thompson won't consider a tweener in Rd.

http://insidethehuddle.tv/sites/default/files/article/images/143449567_extra_large.jpg

[mraynrand]

^^^^ Awesome beatdown, especially the Perry retort! repped

[pbmax]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 15h
Got a big WR stat package on Bechkam, Cooks, Evans, Lee, Matthews and Watkins. Beyond-the-box-score stuff. Showed Matthews most productive

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 14h
Beckham, Lee and Matthews had no drops last season. Evans only one of "big six" WRs mentioned earlier without a fumble.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 14h
Cooks had five fumbles. Wonder if that would totally scare off the #Packers, who have no patience for fumbles.

[smuggler]

Perry wasnt actually a tweener, he was a defensive end that we tried to shoehorn into OLB. Thompson showed in drafting him that he will draft the most talented guy, regardless of the scheme his club employs. Thats as horrible as it is awesome.

[Brandon494]

Perry wasnt actually a tweener, he was a defensive end that we tried to shoehorn into OLB. Thompson showed in drafting him that he will draft the most talented guy, regardless of the scheme his club employs. Thats as horrible as it is awesome.

Actually he was because a lot of teams felt he would be a OLB at the next level since he played it his freshman year at USC and was a athletic freak.

[smuggler]

Well to the extent of his build being a tweener, I still hold he is not. His ability might make him dynamic, but that is not what is implied by the term tweener.

[Brandon494]

Well to the extent of his build being a tweener, I still hold he is not. His ability might make him dynamic, but that is not what is implied by the term tweener.

I gotcha

[smuggler]

There are uses for guys like that. Telvin Smith is a safety/coverage LB tweener who could prosper in the NFL if he is used correctly. Are there any high profile tweeners in the draft that we might target?

[pbmax]

At CBS, Rang, Brugler and Brinson have one of the top two safeties dropping to Packers. Brugler's is the oldest mock (4/21). Each has Prior falling.

Prisco has both gone (Dix-DC, Prior-AC), Kirwan as well. (Dix-Vikes, Prior-Rams)

Brugler and Brinson have the Packers skipping Prior and taking Ward at 21. Rang takes Prior. Prisco takes Shazier and Kirwan has Mosley for the Packers.

Its the earliest Ward appears. Shazier goes to the Cards at 20 in one mock, 24-Bengals in two and drops out of first in the last. Prior goes as early as 13 and also falls out of the first round. Mosley goes from 14 to 29 (all first rounders)

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft

[pbmax]

Tweener as I understand it is not about playing time, experience or versatility. Its about fit of a body to a position in the pros.

Perry hasn't exhibited Tweener problems at OLB except for a couple of coverage incidents. He is the strong side backer on a defense that needed one to set an edge. They can live with less than ideal coverage if he can hold the fort. His main problem has been lack of pass rush and health. His right side mini-explosion of sacks from the right side was intriguing, but not enough to stop the Packers from signing his replacement.

Are his pass rush problems because he is a Tweener? Maybe, but we have no evidence of it (say a stint with his hand in the dirt) and the evidence of his time on the right side argues it isn't.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h
Nice shirt, @haha_cd6. #Packers RT @EricHertel: don't know if you saw this but HaHa posted this on his Instagram pic.twitter.com/I080fZVjJg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmOes77CUAA-ZLQ.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Vandermause on Packer Draft needs:

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140426/PKR07/304260342/Mike-Vandermause-column-Safety-linebacker-top-Packers-draft-needs

I find it odd he doesn't know who he wants to replace at ILB.

[woodbuck27]

1. He doesn't run good routes yet. He'll take time to develop for useful gain in the NFL On top of this he runs a 4.61 40 yard dash and he's not strong with 13 rep's - bench.

See talk about a conversion to TE. Looking at film. Will he be a decent blocker? I see him as a project and our 1st Rd. pick needs to produce in 2014.

You don't have the run the best routes when you have a catching radius of a NBA center.

2. He catches the ball with his body.

No he doesn't, he actually has strong hands. He is similar to T.O. with drop passes though

3. He blows pass's and is especially weak on low throws (see his height)

I don't even know what you mean by he blows pass's but why would you throw the ball low to him when he can out jump any corner?

4. He needs to get stronger. Bench = 13 reps.

Sammy Watkins put up 16 and Mike Evans put up 12 reps...those are the top 2 WRs in the draft btw while your boy Beckham put up 7.

5. Will he be a WR/TE tweener !? Ted Thompson won't consider a tweener in Rd.

http://insidethehuddle.tv/sites/default/files/article/images/143449567_extra_large.jpg

I've never claimed that Ted Thompson is infallible to error. See Nick Perry and "where does he belong now on our roster? Also.... see almost our entire DL. Does that excite you in terms of our current roster? A lot would have to jell this season for that DL to turn up effectively. I see a load of pieces and not much to describe as a whole.

From "a Scouting Report" on Nick Perry:

** " Played right defensive end in Monte Kiffin’s four-man front Tampa-2 defense where he is expected to be one of the four defenders up front to pressure the quarterback. "

** " May be[ best suited for a 4-3 scheme. "

Nick Perry isn't a tweener as much as he's best suited at DE in a 4-3 'D'.

Somehow Ted Thompson fell in love with him. By all means ...Ted Thompson may pick your guy.

[Joemailman]

Benjamin's 40, vertical and broad jump were all in the bottom fourth among wide receivers at the Combine. Add in that he drops passes and doesn't run great routes, and I'm not impressed. His height/weight seems to be his only outstanding quality. Pass.

[RashanGary]

Benjamin's 40, vertical and broad jump were all in the bottom fourth among wide receivers at the Combine. Add in that he drops passes and doesn't run great routes, and I'm not impressed. His height/weight seems to be his only outstanding quality. Pass.

i agree. He looked like a lumbering oaf against college talent. I wouldnt be surprised if he goes in the 6th or 7th round or undrafted as a WR. Looked really bad to me, unless hes a te, then maybe but hes so small. maybe 3rd or 4th round as a TE.

[Brandon494]

Agree to disagree I guess...I will almost guarantee he won't make it out of the 1st round though.

[Bretsky]

Agree to disagree I guess...I will almost guarantee he won't make it out of the 1st round though.


I think he falls well into the 2's. We'll see.

[Joemailman]

I see Benjamin as a boom-or-bust pick. Given TT's track record of drafting WR's, he need not gamble on such a player. If someone else wants to draft Benjamin early, let them. We'll just have to be satisfied with the type of WR's TT drafts who may not be physical freaks, but who are really good football players. If the goal is to get a guy who would be an endzone target, I'd rather go for one of the big TE's available in Rounds 2-3.

[Brandon494]

It would make no sense for us to take a WR in the 1st round of the draft, especially with how deep the WR class is this year. I just stated that IF we did take a WR I would prefer Benjamin over the other guys listed because of his size.

Jimmy Graham, Demaryuis Thomas, Dez Bryant, Vernon Davis, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Julius Thomas, Eric Decker, A.J. Green. Those were the top TD leaders last season, the shortest guy being Dez at 6'2. Jordy Nelson is 6-3 but hes not really a go up and get it type of receiver. We currently don't have that type of player on our team especially with Finley gone. Benjamin would make the most sense because he creates mismatches and hes a huge red zone threat. Yes hes raw but in the right system (ours) and with the right QB (Rodgers), this kid could turn into a stud. With all that being said we better draft a LB or S with our first pick.

[woodbuck27]

Vandermause on Packer Draft needs:

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140426/PKR07/304260342/Mike-Vandermause-column-Safety-linebacker-top-Packers-draft-needs

I find it odd he doesn't know who he wants to replace at ILB.

1. Safety

Thompson inexplicably failed to draft a safety last year. He can’t afford to make the same mistake again, even if the Packers are thinking of moving cornerback Micah Hyde to safety. It’s time to reload at the Packers’ weakest position that was manned last season by M.D. Jennings and Jerron McMillian, who flopped badly.

YES !

2. Linebacker

Specifically, the Packers need a rough, tough, mean, agile, lumber-laying inside linebacker to replace either Brad Jones or A.J. Hawk.

Replace both of them.

3. Tight end

It would be shocking if Jermichael Finley returns after suffering a serious neck injury. He must be cleared by doctors and negotiate a new contract, two major stumbling blocks.

Somewhere in the first four Rds. get a TE.

4. Wide receiver

The more weapons Aaron Rodgers has the better, and the Packers go only three-deep at this position after losing James Jones to free agency. If Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb gets hurt, it wouldn’t be pretty.

TT will go WR early.

5. Offensive line

Maybe the Packers have their center of the future on the roster. Maybe the unproven JC Tretter will stop the revolving door from spinning at the position. But no one is sure about that and it wouldn’t hurt to bring in more competition. As for the rest of the line, there is sufficient depth with Don Barclay and possibly Derek Sherrod serving as backups behind a solid starting group.


Ted Thompson should address thje "C" position for insurance.

6. Defensive line

B.J. Raji is playing on a one-year contract, and Johnny Jolly (neck injury) and Ryan Pickett (age) might not be brought back. Remember the old saying: big men are hard to find.

TT should go DL early and make that a priority over the OL.

7. Cornerback

This is a well-stocked position at the moment, but Tramon Williams isn’t getting any younger and there’s a chance Hyde will land at safety.

You can't have enough solid CB's and especially in the NFL of today.

[smuggler]

Vandermause on Packer Draft needs:

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140426/PKR07/304260342/Mike-Vandermause-column-Safety-linebacker-top-Packers-draft-needs

I find it odd he doesn't know who he wants to replace at ILB.

I think it's pretty clear you need to replace one before you can replace the other.

[pbmax]

I think it's pretty clear you need to replace one before you can replace the other.

Its also the most likely. But each has different strengths and replacing either had different effects, especially when you consider the talent of the guy replacing him. The jobs are not the same. Not telling us which, or who, should fill the role is sidestepping the issue of what's wrong with the ILBs.

He tells us Finley is a large unknown and his backups are not fully proven. Quarless is somewhat limited in comparison. Gives a clear picture of the need and what might help.

[Joemailman]

Terry Bridgewater has a $5 million loss-of-value insurance policy if he isn't drafted in the Top 10, which increasingly seems likely.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000345095/article/report-teddy-bridgewater-can-collect-if-he-falls-out-of-top-10


Bridgewater purchased a $5 million loss-of-value insurance policy after the 2013 season, ESPN.com reported. That came on top of his $10 million total disability injury policy. Disability insurance has become common among top prospects, but ESPN.com reported that, "It is believed that no player who has bought loss-of-value insurance for the NFL draft has actually collected."

[Guiness]

Terry Bridgewater has a $5 million loss-of-value insurance policy if he isn't drafted in the Top 10, which increasingly seems likely.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000345095/article/report-teddy-bridgewater-can-collect-if-he-falls-out-of-top-10

Mathieu reportedly had one, and fell to the third round. He certainly lost value, but it wasn't because of an injury so I doubt he collected. I expect the same with Bridgewater, I haven't seen any report that he's hurt.

[mraynrand]

Terry?

[mraynrand]

Mathieu reportedly had one, and fell to the third round. He certainly lost value, but it wasn't because of an injury so I doubt he collected. I expect the same with Bridgewater, I haven't seen any report that he's hurt.

I heard that Kate Upton bought a loss of value insurance policy on her rack, in case it (they) droop(s) prematurely. Probably hard to collect on that too, but the insurance assessment might be interesting.

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1775/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1775R-15509.jpg

[pbmax]

Bowen likes Ward, even in the first if necessary. Does have him behind Ha-Ha and Prior.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2045731-2014-nfl-draft-whos-on-matt-bowens-draft-radar


Given the multiple personnel packages we see from NFL defensive coordinators, Ward is a fit at the next level because of the versatility he brings to the secondary.

With speed in the high 4.4 range, coverage ability and ball skills (11 career interceptions), Ward can roll down over the slot, drop to the deep middle of the field or play in the run front where he can chop down ball-carriers.

Plus, Ward can align underneath in the defensive sub-packages as a nickel or dime defender in both man and zone schemes to give coordinators more flexibility in the game plan.

He is quick with his hands in press, physical on the release and displays the lateral ability/closing speed to attack the football as a zone defender.

There are questions on Ward’s size (5’11”, 193 lbs) and the level of competition he saw in the MAC Conference. However, after watching the NIU product compete in the Senior Bowl, there is no question he stacks up versus top talent.

I graded out Ward behind Alabama’s Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Louisville’s Calvin Pryor, but don’t be surprised if he is drafted in the first round next Thursday night.

[Fritz]

Bowen likes Ward, even in the first if necessary. Does have him behind Ha-Ha and Prior.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2045731-2014-nfl-draft-whos-on-matt-bowens-draft-radar

Aren't we hearing now the Packers like Terrance Brooks? And as always, is that just media puff, is it a Packer smokescreen, or is it true?

[smuggler]

Brooks has speed to spare. Even if he never becomes a starter, he would at least push Jarrett Bush off the roster.

[pbmax]

Aren't we hearing now the Packers like Terrance Brooks? And as always, is that just media puff, is it a Packer smokescreen, or is it true?

When was the last time the pundits called Ted's pick outside of AJ Hawk?

[Joemailman]

Tennessee reportedly not picking up 2015 option on Jake Locker. http://tracking.si.com/2014/04/30/titans-jake-locker-decline-2015-team-option/

Do we add them to the list of teams looking to draft a QB early? Many thought they were targeting Anthony Barr.

[Guiness]

Tennessee reportedly not picking up 2015 option on Jake Locker. http://tracking.si.com/2014/04/30/titans-jake-locker-decline-2015-team-option/

Do we add them to the list of teams looking to draft a QB early? Many thought they were targeting Anthony Barr.

Maybe, but wouldn't say for sure. Locker is not a total loss, just not worth $14M that the option would've given him - he was a top 10 pick.

[Fritz]

Reports keep coming out of Detroit - different reporters - that the Leos want to trade up.

They're Jonesin' for Watkins, and unless Mayhew is a genius and this is all a smokescreen, they're not even trying to hide it.

And I don't think it is a smokescreen. It's clear that the mandate from above is "win now," so there's no holding back. This might be another one of those years in which the Lions trade up - either to get Watkins, or, if they sit tight at ten, they may well trade up from their second round pick to try to get back into the first, late. That'd probably require their third, but they do have two fourths.

'Sniff. Sniff' What's that smell?

Ah, the sickly slightly sour smell of desperation.

[pbmax]

I hope they get their wish. Its worked out well for the Falcons.

[run pMc]

A trio of Megatron, Tate, and Watkins with Reggie Bush would be hard to stop.

[ThunderDan]

A trio of Megatron, Tate, and Watkins with Reggie Bush would be hard to stop.

They would be. But they threw for almost 4,500 yards last year and had almost 6,300 yards in total offense last year. Where do the extra yards come from? If you throw for another 1,000 yards you are taking 100-250 carries away from the running game and Bush.

[Joemailman]

Maybe the Lions are more worried about Megatron's knee than people realize.

[red]

how nice would it be to trade down a few spots, pick up an extra 3rd or 4th, draft a falling mosely (better instincts) or shazier (better athletic ability) then take our second and third, and /or the pick we got in the trade down to move back up to the top of the second and grab ward

like the raji, mathews draft. two major needs addressed with two great talents

[Fritz]

Maybe the Lions are more worried about Megatron's knee than people realize.

This could be, although the Detroit reporters have not sniffed this out yet, if it is the case.

As for the top safeties, here's what the GBPG said today about teams in front of the Packers who need a safety:

"The teams in the market for a starting safety and picking ahead of the Packers are Detroit at No. 10, St. Louis at No. 13, Chicago at No. 14 and Baltimore at No. 17."

This is not entirely true. Detroit has that FA they signed from Baltimore (Idhegibo?) and the other safety they signed from Houston last year (can't remember his name). They both project as starters.

They likely will be looking for a safety, but my guess is that it won't come with the first round pick. They are in "win now" mode, and getting a player with the first pick who may not start immediately, after throwing FA money at the position two years running, is not part of that plan.

Likely they'd draft someone in the third round, if they still have that pick when it comes around.

[pbmax]

This could be, although the Detroit reporters have not sniffed this out yet, if it is the case.

As for the top safeties, here's what the GBPG said today about teams in front of the Packers who need a safety:

"The teams in the market for a starting safety and picking ahead of the Packers are Detroit at No. 10, St. Louis at No. 13, Chicago at No. 14 and Baltimore at No. 17."

This is not entirely true. Detroit has that FA they signed from Baltimore (Idhegibo?) and the other safety they signed from Houston last year (can't remember his name). They both project as starters.

They likely will be looking for a safety, but my guess is that it won't come with the first round pick. They are in "win now" mode, and getting a player with the first pick who may not start immediately, after throwing FA money at the position two years running, is not part of that plan.

Likely they'd draft someone in the third round, if they still have that pick when it comes around.

There is a lot of assuming going on about safety needs. Lions, Eagles and Bears all signed bodies there and that may ratchet down pressure to pick a safety in the first round.

[red]

hmmm

here's shaziers game tape against clemson from this year

someone tell me whats "special" about this guy. he put up freak numbers at his combine, but i don't see those combine skills being used on the field. i see a guy who has a problem getting off blocks, a guy thats taking a lot of bad angles and missing tackles, and a guy that makes his tackles 8 yards down field

don't we already have a white version of the same player already on the team (put up big numbers at OSU, put up freak numbers in pre draft workouts, has troubles getting off blocks and makes a lot of plays way down field?

hell, hawk might actually look better because he doesn't miss tackles or take horrible angles, and he finishes plays and goes all out on every single snap. i don't see that with shazier


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Po4n2xehbc

[Joemailman]

hmmm

here's shaziers game tape against clemson from this year

someone tell me whats "special" about this guy. he put up freak numbers at his combine, but i don't see those combine skills being used on the field. i see a guy who has a problem getting off blocks, a guy thats taking a lot of bad angles and missing tackles, and a guy that makes his tackles 8 yards down field

don't we already have a white version of the same player already on the team (put up big numbers at OSU, put up freak numbers in pre draft workouts, has troubles getting off blocks and makes a lot of plays way down field?

hell, hawk might actually look better because he doesn't miss tackles or take horrible angles, and he finishes plays and goes all out on every single snap. i don't see that with shazier



That tape is not impressive. Didn't see him really willing to take on contact. It also bring up a concern I've expressed about him previously, which is his weight. He weighed 237 at the Combine, but played in the 220's. He looks more like a safety out there. I wonder if the can keep the weight on during the season.

One think I will say in his defense is that the Ohio St. DL was getting dominated, and that always makes it tough on a linebacker. The same thing happened to Manti Teo against Alabama, but he had a pretty good rookie year for San Diego.

[smuggler]

We know he is going to be small and quick. He will more often than not go around blocks of anyone except a WR. That's true of most rangey ILBs. The ones that are both strong AND fast get taken in the top 10 picks. There isnt one of those this year. If Shazier can run with a TE and has decent coverage abilities to go along with his Joker capabilities, he is worth the pick. If he cannot, then... well, not so much.

[Brandon494]

hell, hawk might actually look better because he doesn't miss tackles or take horrible angles, and he finishes plays and goes all out on every single snap. i don't see that with shazier

Just stop talking

[red]

and heres something to backup what i've been saying for months

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/01/eagles-g-m-says-safety-class-is-not-a-good-group-overall/


At a press conference Thursday, Eagles G.M. Howie Roseman told reporters safety was not a particularly deep position in this year’s draft.

“In terms of the safety class, I don’t think it’s a good group overall,” Roseman said, according to Sheil Kapedia of PhillyMag.com. “I think you’re talking about a dropoff certainly when you get into Saturday.


Four safeties — Alabama’s Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Northern Illinois’ Jimmie Ward, Florida State’s Terrence Brooks and Louisville’s Calvin Pryor — rank in the top third of Rotoworld draft expert Josh Norris’ list of the top 150 draft prospects.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I generally agree about the safeties, but their are a couple midround safeties that I like in Vereen and Reynolds, and there are a number of corners that project to safety in the NFL who I think could be pretty good (Breeland, Huff, Johnson).

[pbmax]

Shazier was willing, I didn't see him ole many blocks and he was willing to use his hands to shield, but he doesn't deliver much of a punch to stop the blocker. He actually gets off several blocks better than current Packers. Tackling is up and down. Saw him finish a few, no kill shots, but also whiffed a couple of times.

Hard to judge how he would look versus a more traditional offense because all the run action of Clemson was off spread concepts. He was always five yards deep to protect against pass first when he was inside. Hoped to see his speed play more of a factor. He did chase two guys outside and forced them OOB.

[Zool]

I like that Shazier is always around the play. He does miss some tackles and not a big hitter. As PB said, he looks better than some Packer guys at shedding blocks currently. Looks a little stiff in coverage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWOS89MXTJ4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsLmhJuHs8E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy55KhopAyQ

[RashanGary]

I've settled in on a guy I want most. CJ Mosley, ilb, Alabama. Hawk won't be around too much longer. Mosley is a man, not a boy playing football. He's a leader and a guy who can be the heart of the defense for years to come. His skill and awareness is off the charts and is a hell of an athlete too. To me, he's a special piece, especially with the makeup of our team. He's bishop with coverage ability and speed.

[Bretsky]

I've settled in on a guy I want most. CJ Mosley, ilb, Alabama. Hawk won't be around too much longer. Mosley is a man, not a boy playing football. He's a leader and a guy who can be the heart of the defense for years to come. His skill and awareness is off the charts and is a hell of an athlete too. To me, he's a special piece, especially with the makeup of our team. He's bishop with coverage ability and speed.

don't think he's there for us at 21

I think we might be choosing for Shazier...if he makes it...and some DL Slugs and WR's

My three I'm at peace with are Mosley.....Prior....and Shazier in that order

[Bretsky]

Shazier was willing, I didn't see him ole many blocks and he was willing to use his hands to shield, but he doesn't deliver much of a punch to stop the blocker. He actually gets off several blocks better than current Packers. Tackling is up and down. Saw him finish a few, no kill shots, but also whiffed a couple of times.

Hard to judge how he would look versus a more traditional offense because all the run action of Clemson was off spread concepts. He was always five yards deep to protect against pass first when he was inside. Hoped to see his speed play more of a factor. He did chase two guys outside and forced them OOB.


The numbers don't lie

39 Tackles for Loss the last two years
4 Forced Fumbles last year

And he's able to move around and play different roles at LB

That has value

[Bretsky]

I generally agree about the safeties, but their are a couple midround safeties that I like in Vereen and Reynolds, and there are a number of corners that project to safety in the NFL who I think could be pretty good (Breeland, Huff, Johnson).


Dear Harvey......are you still a fan of the Douchebag Colleage in OSU ? You should have a good take on Shazier...what is it ?

[red]

don't think he's there for us at 21

I think we might be choosing for Shazier...if he makes it...and some DL Slugs and WR's

My three I'm at peace with are Mosley.....Prior....and Shazier in that order

ward, pryor, mosley, shazier for me, in that order

when i watch them, i think mosley and pryor and haha can all be very good players. shazier could be a decent starter (very hawk like, but i'm one of the few who thinks that would be ok). but ward, to me, is the only one that looks like he could be special. and his size is really the only problem i can find with him

[Bretsky]

ward, pryor, mosley, shazier for me, in that order

when i watch them, i think mosley and pryor and haha can all be very good players. shazier could be a decent starter (very hawk like, but i'm one of the few who thinks that would be ok). but ward, to me, is the only one that looks like he could be special. and his size is really the only problem i can find with him


I need to go find some more film on Ward; I"m not on board with him and think he's going in the 32-45 range. he's truly a guy i'd want to deal down for and not grab at 21

[red]

I need to go find some more film on Ward; I"m not on board with him and think he's going in the 32-45 range. he's truly a guy i'd want to deal down for and not grab at 21

against FSU last year. this is where you see shades of woodson. ward is there on every play,lines up everywhere


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJCN2kOy4Uk

i believe its this game vs toledo where you'll see him make one of the better int's you'll see in your life


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltZz-MBZVpc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPuqNovStRs

those are the three games i can find on youtube. when you look at pryor and mosely and shazier, you see guys playing well on good defenses. when you watch ward yousee a guy who IS his teams defense. and these are full games, every snap he played, not just a highlight reel

and did i mention that even though he's "small" and missed the combine due to a minor foot injury, and he seems to throw his body all over the place on every single play, i believe he's only missed one game in his 4 year college career due to injury

[HarveyWallbangers]

Dear Harvey......are you still a fan of the Douchebag Colleage in OSU ? You should have a good take on Shazier...what is it ?

I like him. My final ILB board may have him at the top. :) Tough though because Mosley is a just a solid all-around player. He has a high floor. I'm not 100% positive that Shazier's game will translate to the NFL though. I think he has more upside than Mosley, and he might be the right fit for the Packers because our LBs have lacked coverage skills.

[HarveyWallbangers]

against FSU last year. this is where you see shades of woodson. ward is there on every play,lines up everywhere

those are the three games i can find on youtube. when you look at pryor and mosely and shazier, you see guys playing well on good defenses. when you watch ward yousee a guy who IS his teams defense. and these are full games, every snap he played, not just a highlight reel

and did i mention that even though he's "small" and missed the combine due to a minor foot injury, and he seems to throw his body all over the place on every single play, i believe he's only missed one game in his 4 year college career due to injury

I likes me some Jimmie Ward. Perhaps the closest thing you'll find to Nick Collins in this draft--although not at that elite level. I've read that the drills that some tend to ignore at the combine (vertical and broad jump) are good indicators for success for safeties at the NFL level. The best safeties in the draft for combined SAA (speed, acceleration, and agility) + explosion (vertical and broad) are Jimmie Ward, Kenny Ladler, Dezman Southward, and Dontae Johnson (if he moves from CB). Buchanan is pretty close. Ward and Buchanan combine good tackling ability with those traits--although Buchanan looks stiff in coverage to me. Ward also has ball skills. His film looks good too. I'm very close to having him as my top rated safety.

[red]

I likes me some Jimmie Ward. Perhaps the closest thing you'll find to Nick Collins in this draft--although not at that elite level. I've read that the drills that some tend to ignore at the combine (vertical and broad jump) are good indicators for success for safeties at the NFL level. The best safeties in the draft for combined SAA (speed, acceleration, and agility) + explosion (vertical and broad) are Jimmie Ward, Kenny Ladler, Dezman Southward, and Dontae Johnson (if he moves from CB). Buchanan is pretty close. Ward and Buchanan combine good tackling ability with those traits--although Buchanan looks stiff in coverage to me. Ward also has ball skills. His film looks good too. I'm very close to having him as my top rated safety.

its tough, because for 4 months,i've been saying haha and pryor have been the 2 clear cut best safeties, then i found ward

and its tough to come to grips with, but i really am starting to think he could be the best safety in the draft

[Bretsky]

I like him. My final ILB board may have him at the top. :) Tough though because Mosley is a just a solid all-around player. He has a high floor. I'm not 100% positive that Shazier's game will translate to the NFL though. I think he has more upside than Mosley, and he might be the right fit for the Packers because our LBs have lacked coverage skills.


For what it's worth I consider Shazier and Mosley about even as fits for Green Bay; would be elated with both. But IMO no way do we have a shot at Mosley and it's about 50-50 for Shazier.

Ward will be there for sure..........I'M CALLING IT.......TRADE DOWN...............

TT trades down into round two.................Ward is there......Red Specialty............TT goes BPA and drafts a WR..............lol

that would add priceless entertainment through the whole off season

[Bretsky]

its tough, because for 4 months,i've been saying haha and pryor have been the 2 clear cut best safeties, then i found ward

and its tough to come to grips with, but i really am starting to think he could be the best safety in the draft


he's a good form tackler and that INT was nice. Looks small but has football instincts. I still think HaHa and Prior are the two tops but I'm find with Ward and like him better than Buchanon and Brooks. I think Ward goes in the 30's

[Bretsky]

I likes me some Jimmie Ward. Perhaps the closest thing you'll find to Nick Collins in this draft--although not at that elite level. I've read that the drills that some tend to ignore at the combine (vertical and broad jump) are good indicators for success for safeties at the NFL level. The best safeties in the draft for combined SAA (speed, acceleration, and agility) + explosion (vertical and broad) are Jimmie Ward, Kenny Ladler, Dezman Southward, and Dontae Johnson (if he moves from CB). Buchanan is pretty close. Ward and Buchanan combine good tackling ability with those traits--although Buchanan looks stiff in coverage to me. Ward also has ball skills. His film looks good too. I'm very close to having him as my top rated safety.



To see Southward's name up there is kind of mind boggling. Top honor was honorary mention all Big Ten. He did start four years; but here is what his production was over four years.

He's the anti Chris Borland; complete opposite

BORLAND AS A BADGER- Team leader, smash mouth football player. Explosive tackler who made big time plays in big time games. Plays faster than his measurables ......but lacks measurables

SOUTHWARD AS A BADGER- Hardly noticeable to even the most diehard fan. Great Measurables in height, weight, and speed. But made a rarity of plays at best. Dude is fast, and stays healthy But match his production up against others.....yikes..it ain't there

SOUTHWARD
playing in 54 games, never missing a game over his four-year career ... started 30 games, including 28 consecutive contests to end his career ... recorded 152 total tackles and 11.5 TFLs, forcing four fumbles ... made two interceptions and broke up 11 passes

[wist43]

I like Shazier a lot more than Mosley.

Would be happey with Shazier in the 1st, would be disappointed with Mosley.

Mosley is okay, but I want more upside in the 1st round than just "okay". I'm not even sure Mosley is a 2nd rounder... my initial reaction was 3rd rounder, but I haven't watched him much since I first took a look at him - I'll watch him some more and see if he changes my mind.

[RashanGary]

I likes me some Jimmie Ward. Perhaps the closest thing you'll find to Nick Collins in this draft--although not at that elite level. I've read that the drills that some tend to ignore at the combine (vertical and broad jump) are good indicators for success for safeties at the NFL level. The best safeties in the draft for combined SAA (speed, acceleration, and agility) + explosion (vertical and broad) are Jimmie Ward, Kenny Ladler, Dezman Southward, and Dontae Johnson (if he moves from CB). Buchanan is pretty close. Ward and Buchanan combine good tackling ability with those traits--although Buchanan looks stiff in coverage to me. Ward also has ball skills. His film looks good too. I'm very close to having him as my top rated safety.

I'm really with you on the ilbs and safeties. I'm leaning Mosley a little more than you because of leadership and intangibles. I read scouts who said he could be better in the nfl because he understands the game. Casey Heyward is that kind of guy, better in the nfl. I do like Shaziers upside more and I waffle from time to time because he's just so fast and plays that way.

Then the safeties. I think all three of haha, cp and ward look similarly good on tape with prior winning the big-play battle. I think ward is the best tackler in open space and the best in man coverage. And he's the best athlete. I'm with you, if I ignore other peoples rankings, ward is the best safety in the group. Only reason I doubt it is because all the sites say he's 3rd.

[RashanGary]

What if we got Mosley in the first and then moved up in the second and got ward too!! Plus peppers and Casey heyward back. If not for capers, we'd probably be pretty good.

[Bretsky]

What if we got Mosley in the first and then moved up in the second and got ward too!! Plus peppers and Casey heyward back. If not for capers, we'd probably be pretty good.


If you believe GB is just a couple impact players away....as I do....everybody would be very happy with this !!!

On the other hand, if Shazier, Mosley, Prior, and Haha are all gone I really hope TT makes a strong effort to trade down

[call_me_ishmael]

he's a good form tackler and that INT was nice. Looks small but has football instincts. I still think HaHa and Prior are the two tops but I'm find with Ward and like him better than Buchanon and Brooks. I think Ward goes in the 30's

Is he really 5'11", though? He looks small on video. I like him, too, and I would be 100% cool with him if he is of size.

[Bretsky]

Just watched the NFL Network Mock Draft. They have a guy I LOVE dropping to 18 in Anthony Barr

Putting him opposite the Claymaker.....there is a guy I would move up for

They also have HaHa going to Chicago and Prior going to Ravens. Nearly everybody has the enforcer, Prior, going to Baltimore

[call_me_ishmael]

To see Southward's name up there is kind of mind boggling. Top honor was honorary mention all Big Ten. He did start four years; but here is what his production was over four years.

He's the anti Chris Borland; complete opposite

BORLAND AS A BADGER- Team leader, smash mouth football player. Explosive tackler who made big time plays in big time games. Plays faster than his measurables ......but lacks measurables

SOUTHWARD AS A BADGER- Hardly noticeable to even the most diehard fan. Great Measurables in height, weight, and speed. But made a rarity of plays at best. Dude is fast, and stays healthy But match his production up against others.....yikes..it ain't there

SOUTHWARD
playing in 54 games, never missing a game over his four-year career ... started 30 games, including 28 consecutive contests to end his career ... recorded 152 total tackles and 11.5 TFLs, forcing four fumbles ... made two interceptions and broke up 11 passes

I don't think Southward will excel in the NFL, but you are selling him short. His name was used probably second most behind Borland's IMO. This is from the opinion of a guy who goes to a lot of home games and is typically buzzed, though, so that opinion may or may not be accurate when facts get involved. I'd describe him as active and a good college player.

[Bretsky]

they also had Mosley going 11; that was a surprise.

GB..they have them taking SHAZIER...calling him a guy who can run and cover and an explosive blitzer

[Bretsky]

Everybody has Derek Car going to Cleveland at 26; would any teams trade up to get ahead of them ??

[RashanGary]

Everybody has Derek Car going to Cleveland at 26; would any teams trade up to get ahead of them ??

Id take Barr in a heartbeat, bretsky. Reminds me of Aldon smith without the alcoholism.

[call_me_ishmael]

Everybody has Derek Car going to Cleveland at 26; would any teams trade up to get ahead of them ??

Let's hope. I would love this. Aren't the latest rumors having the DE going one, the LT going 2, then Sammy Watkins then the QB from TT to the Brownies?

[smuggler]

Barr would be preferable to the other guys mentioned from a BPA perspective.

[red]

Is he really 5'11", though? He looks small on video. I like him, too, and I would be 100% cool with him if he is of size.

he was invited to the combine and did some of the non running stuff, his official height was 5'10 5/8ths i think. 193 pounds

that makes him a whole 3/8ths of an inch shorter then pryor

and also 3/8th of an inch short and 13 pounds lighter then nick collins was at the combine

[woodbuck27]

If you believe GB is just a couple impact players away....as I do....everybody would be very happy with this !!!

On the other hand, if Shazier, Mosley, Prior, and Ha Ha are all gone I really hope TT makes a strong effort to trade down

Looking at this over the last couple of days and it seems as if all three of the four we covet ie C. J. Mosely; Ryan Shazier and Calvin Prior might be picked prior to our #21 pick based on the current ranking by this draft site (CBS.Com).

Today... FS Ha ha Cllinton-Dix is ranked 23rd.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/24548010/big-board-pitt-penetrator-donald-reaches-no-7-as-steadiest-riser

Newest CBS Ranking:

11th LB C.J. Mosely Alabama (6-2, 234, 4.65)

15th OLB Ryan Shazier, Ohio State (6-1, 237, 4.58)

18. FS Calvin Pryor, Louisville (5-11, 207, 4.58)

Others:

20. TE Eric Ebron, North Carolina (6-4, 250, 4.60)

21. DE Kony Ealy, Missouri (6-4, 273, 4.92)

22. WR Brandin Cooks, Oregon State (5-10, 189, 4.33)

23. FS Hasean Clinton-Dix, Alabama* (6-1, 208, 4.58)

24. WR Odell Beckham Jr., LSU (5-11, 198, 4.43)

25. DE/OLB Demarcus Lawrence, Boise State (6-3, 251, 4.80)

26. DT Timmy Jernigan, Florida State (6-2, 299, 5.06)

27. WR Marqise Lee, Southern Cal (6-0, 192, 4.52)

28. CB Jason Verrett, TCU (5-9, 189, 4.38)

29. QB Derek Carr, Fresno State (6-2, 214, 4.69) woodbuck27: Maybe? .... Draft and trade him.

30. OG Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA (6-4, 307, 5.04)

31. WR Cody Latimer, Indiana (6-3, 215, 4.45)

32. OLB Kyle Van Noy, BYU (6-3, 243, 4.71)

33. DE Scott Crichton, Oregon State (6-3, 274, 4.84)

34. CB Bradley Roby, Ohio State (5-11, 194, 4.39)

35. OL Joel Bitonio, Nevada (6-4, 302, 4.97)

36. FS Jimmie Ward, Northern Illinois (5-11, 193, 4.59)

[woodbuck27]

Id take Barr in a heartbeat, bretsky. Reminds me of Aldon smith without the alcoholism.

No kidding:

8. OLB Anthony Barr, UCLA (6-5, 255, 4.66):

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/24548010/big-board-pitt-penetrator-donald-reaches-no-7-as-steadiest-riser

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000338464/printable/tracking-teams-interest-in-top-2014-nfl-draft-prospects

Tracking teams' interest in top 2014 NFL Draft prospects

Published: May 2, 2014 at 03:32 p.m.
Updated: May 2, 2014 at 03:44 p.m.


Green Bay Packers

General manager at pro day: N/A

Head coach at pro day: N/A

Reported workout/visits:

Luke Bowanko, C, Virginia;

Jeremy Butler, WR, Tennessee-Martin;

Brandon Dixon, CB, Northwest Missouri State;

John Fullington, G, Washington State;

Brock Jensen, QB, North Dakota State;

Tom Savage, QB, Pittsburgh;

Jimmy Staten, DT, Middle Tennessee State;

Keith Wenning, QB, Ball State

[Bretsky]

Looking at this over the last couple of days and it seems as if all three of the four we covet ie C. J. Mosely; Ryan Shazier and Calvin Prior might be picked prior to our #21 pick based on the current ranking by this draft site (CBS.Com).

Today... FS Ha ha Cllinton-Dix is ranked 23rd.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/24548010/big-board-pitt-penetrator-donald-reaches-no-7-as-steadiest-riser

Newest CBS Ranking:

11th LB C.J. Mosely Alabama (6-2, 234, 4.65)

15th OLB Ryan Shazier, Ohio State (6-1, 237, 4.58)

18. FS Calvin Pryor, Louisville (5-11, 207, 4.58)

Others:

20. TE Eric Ebron, North Carolina (6-4, 250, 4.60)

21. DE Kony Ealy, Missouri (6-4, 273, 4.92)

22. WR Brandin Cooks, Oregon State (5-10, 189, 4.33)

23. FS Hasean Clinton-Dix, Alabama* (6-1, 208, 4.58)

24. WR Odell Beckham Jr., LSU (5-11, 198, 4.43)

25. DE/OLB Demarcus Lawrence, Boise State (6-3, 251, 4.80)

26. DT Timmy Jernigan, Florida State (6-2, 299, 5.06)

27. WR Marqise Lee, Southern Cal (6-0, 192, 4.52)

28. CB Jason Verrett, TCU (5-9, 189, 4.38)

29. QB Derek Carr, Fresno State (6-2, 214, 4.69) woodbuck27: Maybe? .... Draft and trade him.

30. OG Xavier Su'a-Filo, UCLA (6-4, 307, 5.04)

31. WR Cody Latimer, Indiana (6-3, 215, 4.45)

32. OLB Kyle Van Noy, BYU (6-3, 243, 4.71)

33. DE Scott Crichton, Oregon State (6-3, 274, 4.84)

34. CB Bradley Roby, Ohio State (5-11, 194, 4.39)

35. OL Joel Bitonio, Nevada (6-4, 302, 4.97)

36. FS Jimmie Ward, Northern Illinois (5-11, 193, 4.59)



OF THIS GROUP the only one that jumps out is Ebron as 22; I think he's going well ahead of us but perhaps that is due to not many TE's being worth muck. I also think the safeties get over drafted and it would really surprise me if HaHa and Prior get by the Ravens. Jimmy Ward will be there for us if we want him as many in PR do.

I would love it if somehow any of the following fell: Barr (I'd trade up if he gets close to us), HaHa, Prior, Shazier, and Mosley. I have a feeling it's going to be Shazier and the SL Slugs and some high rates WR's though. And Arizona could grab Shazier and ruin my day. Part of my intrigue with Shazier...who I hate deep down....is I'm sick of being San Francisco's bitch for four times straight. AND if you want to call a spade a spade.....they are in a better position draft wise to improve their team as they are loaded with picks.

If we're sitting there with the Slugs, Ward, and WR's I'm more than fine with TT taking the Best WR (Cooks/Beckam).....reaching for Ward a bit...but in reality...I'd be trying like hell to trade down.

At worst....try to get Cleveland to trade up to 21 (so nobody jumps them for a QB) and take as little as a 4th round pick to do so. You might be able to use their 4th on a guy like Ed Reynolds or Jared Abrederis.

[pbmax]

Interesting list with two Packer entries. Also worrisome because a lot of these guys turned into pudding as pros.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmuYy_1CEAAS768.png:large

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting list with two Packer entries. Also worrisome because a lot of these guys turned into pudding as pros.

Looks like 3 Packers, Datone Jones, Nick Perry, and Jeremy Thompson.

[Fritz]

Ruh roh. Jeremy Thompson - he turned not into a pudding but a pud.

Let's hope Nick Perry and Datone Jones don't follow suit, and maybe get closer to Aldon Smith (playwise) and Mario Williams than to Aaron Maybin and Vernon Gholston.

[pbmax]

Uncanny how close Thompson and Perry are.

[Fritz]

Shush, you.

[smuggler]

Thompson retired due to injury and also had to deal with a position change even before that. Gholston and, to a lesser extent, Maybin are more damning. Maybin is a cautionary tale wrt to Shazier if anything.

[red]

this big board is interesting

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2014-nfl-draft-bridgewater-tops-150303927--nfl.html

they have bridgewater as the #1 guy in the draft, even though others have dropped him out of the 1st round

they have pryor as the top safety and #16 overall

but then they have jimmie ward as the #2 safety, #20 overall. they do have him listed as running a 4.59 40 even though he didn't run it at the combine and ran a 4.47 at his proday

and finally, clinton-dix as the #3 safety at #22 overall

[smuggler]

The difference between the pro time and the combine time is only relevant for linemen. If he's been clocked at 4.47, he runs 4.47

[Guiness]

this big board is interesting

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2014-nfl-draft-bridgewater-tops-150303927--nfl.html

they have bridgewater as the #1 guy in the draft, even though others have dropped him out of the 1st round

they have pryor as the top safety and #16 overall

but then they have jimmie ward as the #2 safety, #20 overall. they do have him listed as running a 4.59 40 even though he didn't run it at the combine and ran a 4.47 at his proday

and finally, clinton-dix as the #3 safety at #22 overall

You kind of have to think the person who made up this board is just trying to stand out - dropping Clowney out of the top spot in favour of Bridgewater, but also having Manziel all the way down at #27 -- I don't think I've seen him lower than 5 (certainly not 10) anywhere else.

[pbmax]

You kind of have to think the person who made up this board is just trying to stand out - dropping Clowney out of the top spot in favour of Bridgewater, but also having Manziel all the way down at #27 -- I don't think I've seen him lower than 5 (certainly not 10) anywhere else.

SI's online Draft Board also has Bridgewater at #1. Some people think the anti-Bridgewater is mostly spin, helped by a bad pro day.

[pbmax]

CBS Mock Drafts have both top ranked safeties off the board by pick #21 in each of five mocks. 2 of them have Ward drafted by then. All Packer picks are linebackers (Shazier and Mosley).

[red]

CBS Mock Drafts have both top ranked safeties off the board by pick #21 in each of five mocks. 2 of them have Ward drafted by then. All Packer picks are linebackers (Shazier and Mosley).

yeah i saw those. kirwin has 3 safeties off the board when we pick. thats what i fear, a run on safeties. that means teams in need will pull the trigger quick in the second round too, leaving us without the top 3, or the rest of the decent prospects by the time our 2nd round pick comes around

[pbmax]

yeah i saw those. kirwin has 3 safeties off the board when we pick. thats what i fear, a run on safeties. that means teams in need will pull the trigger quick in the second round too, leaving us without the top 3, or the rest of the decent prospects by the time our 2nd round pick comes around

I have a hard time believing that though. Safety is usually one of the afterthought positions. Could happen, but hasn't happened a lot in the past, especially considering that one of them has a second round grade on a lot of boards (Ward-often, Prior-a couple, Dix-one).

[red]

the thinking is, that the thinking is changing after what the seahawks were able to do with 2 very good safeties last season

if your safeties are able to do anything (ours were not) then that allows that extra second or two for your pass rush to look all world

[Guiness]

I have a hard time believing that though. Safety is usually one of the afterthought positions. Could happen, but hasn't happened a lot in the past, especially considering that one of them has a second round grade on a lot of boards (Ward-often, Prior-a couple, Dix-one).

Safety doesn't seem to be a position at which a lot of emphasis is placed to draft early, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that change with the league becoming ever more pass centric. Having said that, over the past 4 years, there have been 3, 2, 0 and 2 safeties drafted in the first round.

[red]

this is interesting. derrick carr says that he's been told by 4 or 5 teams that they would like to take him in the 20's. PFT thinks that those 4 or 5 teams are teams with high second round picks that would want to move back up into the 20's to take him

could be just the kind of high demand that the folks in the "trade back" camp are looking for. if 4 or 5 teams are in the hunt, then you should be able to rape the hell out of some other team for #21

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

[gbgary]

my top three hopes for our 1st rd pick...

1- safety or linebacker
2-linebacker or safety
3-te

it better be 1 or 2!

[Fritz]

this is interesting. derrick carr says that he's been told by 4 or 5 teams that they would like to take him in the 20's. PFT thinks that those 4 or 5 teams are teams with high second round picks that would want to move back up into the 20's to take him

could be just the kind of high demand that the folks in the "trade back" camp are looking for. if 4 or 5 teams are in the hunt, then you should be able to rape the hell out of some other team for #21

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

Article today in the JSO in which some unnamed scout or personnel guy for some team goes through the Packers' roster to assess need.

I was okay with this "expert" opinion, though nothing seemed too especially insightful, until I got to this statement on the state of the center position:

""They got a guy (JC Tretter) they drafted last year in the fourth round. They don't have a need. At some point he has to (play). He's a fourth-round pick! What the hell did they pick him for? He must be hell on wheels to pick a center that high. C'mon."

Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/safety-among-packers-needs-for-draft-b99260527z1-257827981.html#ixzz30qw2l0VM
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

If I recall correctly, and I believe I do, Tretter was a tackle.

The Packerrats - even the ones with whom I vehemently disagree - know more than this so-called expert. At least about the Packer's roster.

[Smidgeon]

Okay, my last two cent before the draft:

Think HHCD and Prior are gone. Leaning towards Ward. Not sold on the ILBs. Hoping someone formerly expected to be gone drops (Barr, whomever). I'd be okay with a WR, but I almost think that'd be wasted value unless someone slips through the draft. Can't think of anyone else on whom I have an opinion.

[Fritz]

Okay, my last two cent before the draft:

Think HHCD and Prior are gone. Leaning towards Ward. Not sold on the ILBs. Hoping someone formerly expected to be gone drops (Barr, whomever). I'd be okay with a WR, but I almost think that'd be wasted value unless someone slips through the draft. Can't think of anyone else on whom I have an opinion.


Some folks in Detroit advocating for Barr

[woodbuck27]

OF THIS GROUP the only one that jumps out is Ebron as 22; I think he's going well ahead of us but perhaps that is due to not many TE's being worth muck. I also think the safeties get over drafted and it would really surprise me if HaHa and Prior get by the Ravens. Jimmy Ward will be there for us if we want him as many in PR do.

I would love it if somehow any of the following fell: Barr (I'd trade up if he gets close to us), HaHa, Prior, Shazier, and Mosley. I have a feeling it's going to be Shazier and the SL Slugs and some high rates WR's though. And Arizona could grab Shazier and ruin my day. Part of my intrigue with Shazier...who I hate deep down....is I'm sick of being San Francisco's bitch for four times straight. AND if you want to call a spade a spade.....they are in a better position draft wise to improve their team as they are loaded with picks.

If we're sitting there with the Slugs, Ward, and WR's I'm more than fine with TT taking the Best WR (Cooks/Beckam).....reaching for Ward a bit...but in reality...I'd be trying like hell to trade down.

At worst....try to get Cleveland to trade up to 21 (so nobody jumps them for a QB) and take as little as a 4th round pick to do so. You might be able to use their 4th on a guy like Ed Reynolds or Jared Abrederis.

This morning or Monday May 05, 2014 NFL toatal Access has our pick being surprisingly looking back over the past two months as Free Safety Hasean "Ha Ha" Clinton-Dix, Fr. Alabama:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2028292/hasean-clinton-dix

Get a load of these Mocks picks and the Packers pick @ NO. 21:

Bucky Brooks says we pick C.J. Mosley. He has FS Hasean "Ha Ha" Clinton-Dix going at Pick NO. 13 to the RAMS and da Chicago Bears going FS as well and Calvin Pryor with the next pick at Pick NO 14.

Many Packerrats will be pleased to learn that Mike Huguenin, Chase Goodbread and Matt Smith also have the Packers hooking up with Alabama ILB C. J. Mosely at Pick NO. 21.

Comment woodbuck27: It's my view that the Bears will go FS as well and if not they go right of the top to a priority need (DT) and take DT Aaron Donald Fr. Pittsburgh or NT Timmy Jernigan Fr. Florida State.

Looking at other Mocks from NFL.Com:

Former NFL GM Charley Casserly says it'll be: DE Stephon Tuitt Fr. Notre Dame ( Tuitt will start in his first year at defensive end. The Packers need a safety, ** but there are none left with first-round abilities.)

Charley Casserly has FS Calvin Pryor going at #14 to the Chicago Bears; ** and he has Hasean "Ha Ha" Clinton-Dix going in the #16 spot after the RAMs make a trade at #13 with the Dallas Cowboys who covet DT Aaron Donald Fr. Pittsburgh and want to steal his possible selection from the Chicago Bears.

Note: Other noteables based on Packerrats views:

Charlie Casserly has [B]ILB C. J. Mosley going at NO. 17 to the Baltimore Ravens;

WR Brandin Cooks goes @ NO. 20 to the Arizona Cardinals.

and OLB Ryan Shazier going at Pick #31 overall to the Denver Broncos.

Charles Davis and Daniel Jeremiah think it will be Ted Thompson and TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins fr. Washington ( The comment by Charles Davis: Packers buy into getting the 2012 ASJ model -- a dynamic, physical, fast player with big-time hands ).

Daniel Jeremiah says in terms of TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins:

Seferian-Jenkins needs more polish, but his combination of size, catch radius and high-point skills will make him an immediate impact player in the red zone.

Please see for full Mock results:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/austin-seferian-jenkins?id=2543683

[Guiness]

Fisher in St-Louis is trying like hell to drum up interest in the #2 pick. He's said the Rams have identified '6 to 8 players' they could pick at #2 - I see that as him telling the teams all the way down to #8 he's answering the phone.

[Smidgeon]

Fisher in St-Louis is trying like hell to drum up interest in the #2 pick. He's said the Rams have identified '6 to 8 players' they could pick at #2 - I see that as him telling the teams all the way down to #8 he's answering the phone.

Yep, that's how I read it too. If they wanted to stay put, they wouldn't say anything. All they'd have to do is identify their two favorite players--in order--and take the second if the Texans take the first. By saying there's a list, he's saying, "We want to move down. Call us."

[woodbuck27]

Fisher in St-Louis is trying like hell to drum up interest in the #2 pick. He's said the Rams have identified '6 to 8 players' they could pick at #2 - I see that as him telling the teams all the way down to #8 he's answering the phone.

There are many players that the RAMS could pick with the NO. 2 overall pick. In terms of BPA arguably; there will be "only" four.

How's that:

There are only five (5) prospects with a grade > 7.0.

Two (2) OT's; One (1) WR; One (1) DE; and One (1) OLB.

[RashanGary]

reading The comments McGinn got from personnel guys, there isnt a first round safety in this bunch. And Ive been saying that for a while. Pryor and Dix know how to play, but this is the NFL and you better be the sharpest knife in the set if you're going to run 4.6 from the safety position, especially free safety where covering ground is at the very top of your job description. Clinton-dix skillset just doesnt transfer. He has no real redeaming quality other than being the most refined free safety in a poor class.

Pryor, now heres a guy who brings legitimate strong safety skills, but he's slow and he's not a true leader of the defense type that you would want from a less than stellar athlete. And strong safety just isnt as important as free safety as of late. 20 years ago, yeah, today, i wouldnt take pryor either.

And that brings us to Jimmie Ward, a more impressive athlete than Haha, faster, but smallish, from a smaller school and has character concerns. 21st pick? Id probably feel better about him than the other two, but no friggin way, not when hes immature.

So we're left looking at corners and ILBs if we want to really improve our back 7. Fuller is probably the best player, but light and injury prone. I dont knowmif our guy is there. Shazier and Mosley are our best bet, in this draft, to really improve our back 7. Shazier scares me the more i read. Hes not a true "leader of the defense" type and i put a lot of stock in that from ILBs and safeties. Their games tie together with so many other players, you need a guy who really knows what is going on or mistakes happen over and over and over. Love his speed, looks like Patick Willis when hes chasing. Love his big hits, again, Willis. But Willis is a true leader, a guy who studies and sets the tone for preparation. Shazier, it looks like its all about him.

So for me, if we're going to get better in the middle, the guy I like in the first round is Mosley. Unlike Clinton-Dix and Pryor, mosley is a very good athlete for his position. Runs the same as haha and Pryor, but bigger and more explosive 35" vertical jump. He's a legit 1st round talent. And hes a true gamer, unlike both safeties. Hes the heart and soul of his defense. Hes the leader. He diagnoses and anticipates as well as anyone. His zone coverage is off the charts. The NFL is littered with elite athletes like Shazier who just never put it together. It's also littered with long-time quality inside players like mosley who are poor athletes but more than any other position, ilB makes up for it with awareness and instincts. Mosley isnt a poor athlete though. Hes a really fine athlete. He has the complete package and hes the back 7 player im most hoping for on Thursday because he has the qualities that dominate iLBs have in the nFL, not just combine, but all of it.

[Bretsky]

reading The comments McGinn got from personnel guys, there isnt a first round safety in this bunch. And Ive been saying that for a while. Pryor and Dix know how to play, but this is the NFL and you better be the sharpest knife in the set if you're going to run 4.6 from the safety position, especially free safety where covering ground is at the very top of your job description. Clinton-dix skillset just doesnt transfer. He has no real redeaming quality other than being the most refined free safety in a poor class.

Pryor, now heres a guy who brings legitimate strong safety skills, but he's slow and he's not a true leader of the defense type that you would want from a less than stellar athlete. And strong safety just isnt as important as free safety as of late. 20 years ago, yeah, today, i wouldnt take pryor either.

And that brings us to Jimmie Ward, a more impressive athlete than Haha, faster, but smallish, from a smaller school and has character concerns. 21st pick? Id probably feel better about him than the other two, but no friggin way, not when hes immature.

So we're left looking at corners and ILBs if we want to really improve our back 7. Fuller is probably the best player, but light and injury prone. I dont knowmif our guy is there. Shazier and Mosley are our best bet, in this draft, to really improve our back 7. Shazier scares me the more i read. Hes not a true "leader of the defense" type and i put a lot of stock in that from ILBs and safeties. Their games tie together with so many other players, you need a guy who really knows what is going on or mistakes happen over and over and over. Love his speed, looks like Patick Willis when hes chasing. Love his big hits, again, Willis. But Willis is a true leader, a guy who studies and sets the tone for preparation. Shazier, it looks like its all about him.

So for me, if we're going to get better in the middle, the guy I like in the first round is Mosley. Unlike Clinton-Dix and Pryor, mosley is a very good athlete for his position. Runs the same as haha and Pryor, but bigger and more explosive 35" vertical jump. He's a legit 1st round talent. And hes a true gamer, unlike both safeties. Hes the heart and soul of his defense. Hes the leader. He diagnoses and anticipates as well as anyone. His zone coverage is off the charts. The NFL is littered with elite athletes like Shazier who just never put it together. It's also littered with long-time quality inside players like mosley who are poor athletes but more than any other position, ilB makes up for it with awareness and instincts. Mosley isnt a poor athlete though. Hes a really fine athlete. He has the complete package and hes the back 7 player im most hoping for on Thursday because he has the qualities that dominate iLBs have in the nFL, not just combine, but all of it.


I'm with you on Mosley...but would also be happy with Shazier

I think Clinton-Dix and Prior are better than you give them credit for though. I watch a lot of Draft muck on NFL Network with Mayock and Casserly. I remember one of them....maybe both...noting they liked Vicarrio and Eric Reed last year but this years top two safeties higher than Vicario and Reed coming out (they all rated Earl Thomas higher than all)

I think Clinton Dix is a very good fit for what we want....and that is a smart ballhawk that created turnovers. His anticipation and ball skills are stellar. The safeties on our defense didn't have one INT last year for the first time in about sixty years. Dix helps that. What worries me about Dix is Alabama is the best coached team in college football with the most talent. So some of these guys excel at Alabama and then balance out to just be ok in the pros after excelling in college.

Prior I thought ran a 4.5 which is not bad. He's a combo guy; you can send him loose to blitz the QB and he'll inflict some serious pain on WR's coming over the middle.....in a more legal manner than a Merriweather hit but with similar velocity. But he's a guy you can run and pass blitz with and he'll blow up plays...ala Leroy Butler. he likes romaing which scares me a bit.

[Brandon494]

I pray we don't get Mosley, the last thing this team needs is another injury prone player. Didn't we draft another player in the 1st round who was injury prone? Damn what was his name? I can't remember!

Also to say Dix and Pryor aren't 1st round material is Haha....I guarantee if either one is there at 21 the Packers will be calling their name. As far as Shazier don't know where you've been reading this stuff about him but might want to read this article because you've heard wrong.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2014/01/how_ohio_states_ryan_shazier_o.html

[Joemailman]

DT Tim Jernigan, thought to be a possible 1st round pick, failed a drug test at the Combine.

[Bretsky]

. Didn't we draft another player in the 1st round who was injury prone? Damn what was his name? I can't remember!

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2014/01/how_ohio_states_ryan_shazier_o.html

Are you referring to Justine......or Fluffy...aka...Sherry...the new marshmellow ?

[BZnDallas]

I pray we don't get Mosley, the last thing this team needs is another injury prone player. Didn't we draft another player in the 1st round who was injury prone? Damn what was his name? I can't remember!

Also to say Dix and Pryor aren't 1st round material is Haha....I guarantee if either one is there 21 the Packers will be calling their name. As far as Shazier don't know where you've been reading this stuff about him but might want to read this article because you've heard wrong.

]http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2014/01/how_ohio_states_ryan_shazier_o.htm[/B]l

Sounds like Packer People to me...
He's an inch shorter than Mosley and weighs the same
And the kid runs circles around Mosley

If Mosley is the pick, I'll trust TT like i almost always do and hope he turns into another Ray Ray...
I hope Shazier's the pick because i think he brings to the table what our defense needs the most... help against the mobile QB and athletic TE...

[woodbuck27]

reading The comments McGinn got from personnel guys, there isnt a first round safety in this bunch. And Ive been saying that for a while. Pryor and Dix know how to play, but this is the NFL and you better be the sharpest knife in the set if you're going to run 4.6 from the safety position, especially free safety where covering ground is at the very top of your job description. Clinton-dix skillset just doesnt transfer. He has no real redeaming quality other than being the most refined free safety in a poor class.

Pryor, now heres a guy who brings legitimate strong safety skills, but he's slow and he's not a true leader of the defense type that you would want from a less than stellar athlete. And strong safety just isnt as important as free safety as of late. 20 years ago, yeah, today, i wouldnt take pryor either.

And that brings us to Jimmie Ward, a more impressive athlete than Haha, faster, but smallish, from a smaller school and has character concerns. 21st pick? Id probably feel better about him than the other two, but no friggin way, not when hes immature.

So we're left looking at corners and ILBs if we want to really improve our back 7. Fuller is probably the best player, but light and injury prone. I dont knowmif our guy is there. Shazier and Mosley are our best bet, in this draft, to really improve our back 7. Shazier scares me the more i read. Hes not a true "leader of the defense" type and i put a lot of stock in that from ILBs and safeties. Their games tie together with so many other players, you need a guy who really knows what is going on or mistakes happen over and over and over. Love his speed, looks like Patick Willis when hes chasing. Love his big hits, again, Willis. But Willis is a true leader, a guy who studies and sets the tone for preparation. Shazier, it looks like its all about him.

So for me, if we're going to get better in the middle, the guy I like in the first round is Mosley. Unlike Clinton-Dix and Pryor, mosley is a very good athlete for his position. Runs the same as haha and Pryor, but bigger and more explosive 35" vertical jump. He's a legit 1st round talent. And hes a true gamer, unlike both safeties. Hes the heart and soul of his defense. Hes the leader. He diagnoses and anticipates as well as anyone. His zone coverage is off the charts. The NFL is littered with elite athletes like Shazier who just never put it together. It's also littered with long-time quality inside players like mosley who are poor athletes but more than any other position, ilB makes up for it with awareness and instincts. Mosley isnt a poor athlete though. Hes a really fine athlete. He has the complete package and hes the back 7 player im most hoping for on Thursday because he has the qualities that dominate iLBs have in the nFL, not just combine, but all of it.

Good post.

Reading your comments and Safety:

I don't see any opportunity for TT and Safety in Round one. Based on mocks both Hasean "Ha Ha" Clinton-Dix and Calvin Pryor will be off the board by Pick NO. 21.

FS Jimmy Ward - N. Illinois had a solid season last year. He makes up for his below six feet (5'-11' 193 pound) size.

Jimmy Ward is a versatile defensive back who's fast, strong and a dependable tackler; a playmaker with the ability to play any DB position. I like this fella if TT can trade down from position NO. 21 and possibly pick him and gain another higher round pick. Lots of NFL teams have need at the Safety position (approx. a dozen). Based on that he most likely will be gone before Round 3.

If Ted Thompson doesn't have a shot at ILBer C.J. Mosely - Alabama and less than 40 hours away from his draft that's looking like more of a reality proposition. I believe that TT will try to trade down. That's the nature of his beast.

LB Ryan Shazier has a very solid Grade of 6.3 by NFL.Com. CBS.Com has him ranked third in his position and ranked 19th overall. Ted Thompson and the packer Scouts will have him positioned on the packers board wherever and in terms of TT picking Ryan Shazier !? It's a simple wait and see. We do need a first round pick to step right in and contribute and have the potential to be a leader on and off the field.

Now ... I'm going to dream a little:

Straight up if I had a choice between C. J. Mosely or Ryan Shazier. I'd go with the more NFL ready prospect and leader in C.J. Mosely.

Mosely (6.42) grades out slightly better than Shazier (6.30).

Ryan Shazier looks like an athlete with awesome skills; yet some time will be needed to mold him. If TT is going to use NO. 21 he'll want that prospect to be ready to make a solid contribution ....now.

If C. J. Mosely is on the board at Pick NO. 21 and TT ignores that with some other move. I'll scratch my head.....and then I'll let out a Primal Scream. :-)

TT and a prospect that is ready to go and that we also have need for....See Guiness's guy and NT Louis Nix III. One very prominent NFL site says we have need at 1) Safety; Tight end: Inside linebacker and Wide Receiver.

We also have need on both lines and especially I feel we have a dramatic need on the DL. That's the head of our teams snake and how strong is it really !? I don't care how TT has performed and picking early round talent and DL we need on the Defensive Line. BPA as an aside; this is the fact of Green Bay Packer life and the immediate future.

I've little confidence in BJ Raji. Will Johnny Jolly be available? Ryan Pickett is basically "the past".

I'm a little surprized that I'm arriving here but it seems like Ted Thompson and reality. Ted Thompson will be dramatic in this draft. He'll trade down and trade up as he see's fit.

As for pick NO. 21 I do expect that he'll trade down and pick off the BPA DT/DE in the Draft. For all other picks TT will stick "hopefully and really" stick to the BPA model.

GO TT and GO Pack GO !

[Bretsky]

I still don't have a strong view between Ward and Buchanon. I know Ward seems to be a darling in here though. If the two safeties and the two LB's are gone..........I sure hope Cleveland does not have a QB yet. Perhaps somebody falls. Perhaps somebody wants to trade ahead of Cleveland....or maybe we can even Coax Cleveland into trading up five picks.........or giving up their second and a pick to get three picks in round one. It would happen. I'd be fine with getting back into the 30's and taking Ward or Buchanon

[woodbuck27]

I still don't have a strong view between Ward and Buchanon. I know Ward seems to be a darling in here though. If the two safeties and the two LB's are gone..........I sure hope Cleveland does not have a QB yet. Perhaps somebody falls. Perhaps somebody wants to trade ahead of Cleveland....or maybe we can even Coax Cleveland into trading up five picks.........or giving up their second and a pick to get three picks in round one. It would happen. I'd be fine with getting back into the 30's and taking Ward or Buchanon

TT is going to try like hell to trade down from pick NO. 21.

[pbmax]

Well, Bob isn't impressed. He basically echoes a point red made a few weeks ago. There is depth at safety, but that might be because there is not a top end.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/clinton-dix-pryor-lead-safety-class-but-are-they-worth-first-round-b99262397z1-258218081.html

Does the 40 matter that much to a safety?

[mraynrand]

Does the 40 matter that much to a safety?

Brian Dawkins ran a 4.59 and was The Byron "Whizzer" White NFL Man of the Year Award in 2008. Football speed and instincts matter more than pure speed at safety. I was at Philly in 2004 and just watched Dawkins in the secondary. If I didn't know better, I would have thought he was in the Packer huddle. Guy knew the plays, knew his keys and broke on passes with no wasted steps. Drafted #61, probably because of speed issues. Ted Thompson: "I have people around me to remind me to draft players who can play football, so I don't get distracted by measureables" (that's a paraphrase)

[RashanGary]

More than any other position, I do think 40 time matters for free safety. It's the one position that really covers long ground and I notice most top tier FS are fast in the nfl. It's more than just speed, but I wouldn't take a slow safety with a first round pick in this draft.

[Brandon494]

A few free safeties off the top of my head that had similar 40 times.

Ed Reed 4.57 40
Jairus Byrd 4.68 40
Dashon Goldson 4.65 40
Antrel Rolle 4.5 50
Malcom Jenkins 4.53 40

If 40 times matter more for FS then why would teams move slower CBs to FS? Its about instincts, taking the right angles, and tackling since they are the last line of defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

More than any other position, I do think 40 time matters for free safety. It's the one position that really covers long ground and I notice most top tier FS are fast in the nfl. It's more than just speed, but I wouldn't take a slow safety with a first round pick in this draft.

You would be correct--according to a multiplier done by DRAFTMETRICS. They correlated testing in the combine drills to success in the NFL (measured by 3+ years of starting in the NFL). Here is what the found on the importance of each drill per position. We'll just evaluate the 6 common drills--40 time, short shuttle, 3 cone, vertical, broad jump, and bench press. The vertical and broad jumps end up mattering more than people think--because it measures the player's explosiveness. They didn't show the results of QBs because measurables didn't have a big correlation to success in the NFL. The results are intersting at some positions, the drills have less importance (QB, OT, 3-4 DE, LB)--while the drills matter a lot more at other positions (TE, OG, 4-3 DE, CB). Some drills are very important at a position while others matter very little. Here were the results:

RB
Important: 40 time++, vertical, broad jump
Moderately important: none
Not very important: bench, shuttle, 3 cone--

WR
Important: shuttle, 40 time
Moderately important: vertical, broad jump
Not very important: 3 cone, bench--

TE
Important: bench++, broad jump++, shuttle
Moderately important: vertical
Not very important: 3 cone, 40 time

OC
Important: shuttle++, vertical
Moderately important: broad jump, 3 cone
Not very important: bench, 40 time

OG
Important: vertical++, 40 time, shuttle, broad jump, 3 cone
Moderately important: bench
Not very important: none

OT
Important: 40 time
Moderately important: vertical, shuttle, broad jump
Not very important: bench, 3 cone

4-3 DE
Important: shuttle++, broad jump++, vertical++
Moderately important: 3 cone, 40 time
Not very important: bench

3-4 DE
Important: none
Moderately important: bench, 40 time
Not very important: broad jump, vertical, shuttle, 3 cone

DT
Important: none
Moderately important: vertical, 40 time
Not very important: bench, shuttle, broad jump, 3 cone--

LB
Important: shuttle
Moderately important: 40 time
Not very important: 3 cone, broad jump, vertical, bench--

CB
Important: 40 time, bench, shuttle
Moderately important: vertical, 3 cone, broad jump
Not very important: none

S
Important: 40 time, 3 cone
Moderately important: shuttle
Not very important: broad jump, vertical, bench--

++ means the drill is very important at that position.
-- means the drill is not important at that position.

Overall, across all positions, the drills correlated to NFL success in this order: shuttle, 40 time, vertical, broad jump, bench, 3 cone

[Brandon494]

And since when was Bob McGinn an expert on anything?

[HarveyWallbangers]

More than any other position, I do think 40 time matters for free safety. It's the one position that really covers long ground and I notice most top tier FS are fast in the nfl. It's more than just speed, but I wouldn't take a slow safety with a first round pick in this draft.

You would be correct--according to a multiplier done by DRAFTMETRICS. They correlated testing in the combine drills to success in the NFL (measured by 3+ years of starting in the NFL). Here is what the found on the importance of each drill per position. We'll just evaluate the 6 common drills--40 time, short shuttle, 3 cone, vertical, broad jump, and bench press. The vertical and broad jumps end up mattering more than people think--because it measures the player's explosiveness. They didn't show the results of QBs because measurables didn't have a big correlation to success in the NFL. The results are intersting at some positions, the drills have less importance (QB, OT, 3-4 DE, LB)--while the drills matter a lot more at other positions (TE, OG, 4-3 DE, CB). Some drills are very important at a position while others matter very little. Here were the results:

RB
Important: 40 time++, vertical, broad jump
Moderately important: none
Not very important: bench, shuttle, 3 cone--

WR
Important: shuttle, 40 time
Moderately important: vertical, broad jump
Not very important: 3 cone, bench--

TE
Important: bench++, broad jump++, shuttle
Moderately important: vertical
Not very important: 3 cone, 40 time

OC
Important: shuttle++, vertical
Moderately important: broad jump, 3 cone
Not very important: bench, 40 time

OG
Important: vertical++, 40 time, shuttle, broad jump, 3 cone
Moderately important: bench
Not very important: none

OT
Important: 40 time
Moderately important: vertical, shuttle, broad jump
Not very important: bench, 3 cone

4-3 DE
Important: shuttle++, broad jump++, vertical++
Moderately important: 3 cone, 40 time
Not very important: bench

3-4 DE
Important: none
Moderately important: bench, 40 time
Not very important: broad jump, vertical, shuttle, 3 cone

DT
Important: none
Moderately important: vertical, 40 time
Not very important: bench, shuttle, broad jump, 3 cone--

LB
Important: shuttle
Moderately important: 40 time
Not very important: 3 cone, broad jump, vertical, bench--

CB
Important: 40 time, bench, shuttle
Moderately important: vertical, 3 cone, broad jump
Not very important: none

S
Important: 40 time, 3 cone
Moderately important: shuttle
Not very important: broad jump, vertical, bench--

++ means the drill is very important at that position.
-- means the drill is not important at that position.

Overall, across all positions, the drills correlated to NFL success in this order: shuttle, 40 time, vertical, broad jump, bench, 3 cone

[pbmax]

And since when was Bob McGinn an expert on anything?

He's not an expert, but he usually does good digging and has records on a lot of drafts going back quite a way.

So when he writes that those 40 times are kinda pedestrian for the safety position in the first round, I take it seriously. However, as I think someone posted before, Ed Reed's 40 time wasn't fabulous either. So I am open to other opinions.

Bob doesn't report out all his data (see Bigger/Stronger/Tougher) so its not a lock by any means.

[Brandon494]

I can't take him seriously ever since he wrote that article about Seneca Wallace.

[mraynrand]

I can't take him seriously ever since he wrote that article about Seneca Wallace.

You know Seneca wasn't up to snuff, as he was never named the Byron "Whizzer" White NFL Man of the Year. I bet Bob didn't even know that.

[mraynrand]

dp

[Cheesehead Craig]

A few free safeties off the top of my head that had similar 40 times.

Ed Reed 4.57 40
Jairus Byrd 4.68 40
Dashon Goldson 4.65 40
Antrel Rolle 4.5 50
Malcom Jenkins 4.53 40

If 40 times matter more for FS then why would teams move slower CBs to FS? Its about instincts, taking the right angles, and tackling since they are the last line of defense.
You had those guys' 40 times off the top of your head? Impressive.

[Brandon494]

You had those guys' 40 times off the top of your head? Impressive.

Haha not at all, I had to look up their 40 times. Just by watching them over the years I knew they didn't have Nick Collins type speed.

[pbmax]

That raises a good point. How far along is the Nick Collins cloning project coming along?

Any progress on accelerated aging of the clone?

[pbmax]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 38m
More I've heard, the less likely I believe Shazier makes it to 21. And my gut says they don't take a safety, either.

[Brandon494]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 38m
More I've heard, the less likely I believe Shazier makes it to 21. And my gut says they don't take a safety, either.

I was starting to feel Shazier would be gone by the time we picked which is why I found it funny some were talking about trading down then drafting him. I hope we trade down instead of reaching to filll a need but I'm really starting to think Stephon Tuitt will be our 1st round pick. TT always seems to pick someone that no one predicts.

[HarveyWallbangers]

4.58 is plenty enough speed at safety, but speed does make a difference at the position.

[Brandon494]

4.58 is plenty enough speed at safety, but speed does make a difference at the position.

Speed makes a difference at any position but to say a player can't be elite because he doesn't have elite speed isn't accurate.

[pbmax]

Speed makes a difference at any position but to say a player can't be elite because he doesn't have elite speed isn't accurate.

I am less worried about speed with Prior because I presume that Burnett is in the backend and Prior plays LOS in single safety. If its Dix, then I am worried a bit.

[mraynrand]

I'm really starting to think Stephon Tuitt will be our 1st round pick. TT always seems to pick someone that no one predicts.

So much for Stephon Tuitt

[pittstang5]

I'm worried Kony Ealy might be the pick, provided Shazier and Mosley and the safeties are gone and TT can't trade down. Just what we need, another Tweener.

[red]

I'm worried Kony Ealy might be the pick, provided Shazier and Mosley and the safeties are gone and TT can't trade down. Just what we need, another Tweener.

yup, no more fucking tweeners, if we draft another de/olb high in the draft, i'll explode

[SavedByGrace]

The more I watch video on Pryor, the more I hope the Packers get him. He absolutely attacks the ball and anything attached to it. Whenever there's a catch, you can always see the #25 missile streaking at the ball. He is the physical player the Packers have been needing for awhile, much like a Donte Whitner, Dashon Goldson, or Brandon Meriweather.

[Joemailman]

Bob McGinn mock draft. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/bob-mcginns-first-round-nfl-mock-draft-b99264770z1-258398211.html

He has TT taking Mosley. TT passes on both Clinton-Dix and Pryor.

[Brandon494]

I guess Bob McGinn has started smoking crack going by that mock draft.

[woodbuck27]

I was starting to feel Shazier would be gone by the time we picked which is why I found it funny some were talking about trading down then drafting him. I hope we trade down instead of reaching to filll a need but I'm really starting to think Stephon Tuitt will be our 1st round pick. TT always seems to pick someone that no one predicts.

If The NE Pat's get wind of that then maybe TT gets them to trade picks as I've ben seeing DT Stephon Tuitt Mocked to them.

The Pats are also hungry for a solid TE.

[woodbuck27]

I was starting to feel Shazier would be gone by the time we picked which is why I found it funny some were talking about trading down then drafting him. I hope we trade down instead of reaching to filll a need but I'm really starting to think Stephon Tuitt will be our 1st round pick. TT always seems to pick someone that no one predicts.

dbl post

[smuggler]

I'm worried Kony Ealy might be the pick, provided Shazier and Mosley and the safeties are gone and TT can't trade down. Just what we need, another Tweener.

Before I even knew anything much about him (or the other top prospects) I had a dream that we drafted him and he was out of the league in 2 years.

.... I also had a dream wherein Datone Jones committed suicide. Really horrible Packer dreams of late.

[Brandon494]

Before I even knew anything much about him (or the other top prospects) I had a dream that we drafted him and he was out of the league in 2 years.

.... I also had a dream wherein Datone Jones committed suicide. Really horrible Packer dreams of late.

WTF is wrong with you man? You have a sick mind....our first round draft pick out of the league in 2 years?

[pbmax]

Before I even knew anything much about him (or the other top prospects) I had a dream that we drafted him and he was out of the league in 2 years.

.... I also had a dream wherein Datone Jones committed suicide. Really horrible Packer dreams of late.

Not as long as Rick Spielman has a job.

[smuggler]

WTF is wrong with you man? You have a sick mind....our first round draft pick out of the league in 2 years?


Not as long as Rick Spielman has a job.


Heh good responses, both.

[Smidgeon]

Okay, I've already offered my last two cents on what I want out of the draft (but I'm less unsold on the ILBs as I was three days ago, so I suppose I'd be okay with either of them).

But I think all four will be gone (HHCD and Pryor to other teams), Mosley to Pittsburgh, and Shazier to Chicago. Chicago likes them their LBs, especially if they think Green Bay wants one. Plus, they've been known to pounce on picks we want GB to take.

So with all four gone, I have no idea what way TT will go. Outside those four, I'm either hoping another top tier talent gets pushed down, or he trades back. So likely that he trades back...

[Fritz]

I'm okay if he trades back or trades up - if he trades back, it's extra picks. If he trades up, he must smell a difference-maker. I don't think he'd trade up to get a guy he thinks will be an okay starter.

[mraynrand]

and Shazier to Chicago. Chicago likes them their LBs, especially if they think Green Bay wants one. Plus, they've been known to pounce on picks we want GB to take.


I've been worried about this too. If so, I hope every bad thing about Shazier comes to pass. I'd rather have Chicago deal with Blackhawk; they're used to it.

[pittstang5]

Okay, I've already offered my last two cents on what I want out of the draft (but I'm less unsold on the ILBs as I was three days ago, so I suppose I'd be okay with either of them).

But I think all four will be gone (HHCD and Pryor to other teams), Mosley to Pittsburgh, and Shazier to Chicago. Chicago likes them their LBs, especially if they think Green Bay wants one. Plus, they've been known to pounce on picks we want GB to take.

So with all four gone, I have no idea what way TT will go. Outside those four, I'm either hoping another top tier talent gets pushed down, or he trades back. So likely that he trades back...

Wouldn't surprise me if Chicago takes Shazier. Those Bastards took Shea McClellin in 2012, knowing full well he doesn't fit their system and, at the time, seemed a perfect fit for GB. Instead, we end up with Nick "Tweener" Perrry.

[run pMc]

I've already offered my last two cents on what I want out of the draft

Kind of an interesting way to think about it. From a purely positional standpoint, I'd like to see them add

2 S, 1 ILB, 1 OLB, 1 DL, 1-2 WR, 1 TE, 1 interior OL, maybe another CB. Hopefully someone from that group can be a KR/PR.

From a needs standpoint, they need to add some deep speed/better communication at S, speed/coverage skills at LB, size at WR and TE...and have everyone do some tackling drills.

[pbmax]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Tom E. Curran ‏@tomecurran 6m
A source tells me Ryan Mallett to the Texans may soon be done.

Middle aged posters who also follow baseball will recognize this as the New York Mets Pitching Prospect Effect from the late 1980s.