Official 2017 NFL draft thread

[ThunderDan]

I like James Connor and Sammy Perine. I think because they ran 4.6s they can be had a round or two later which makes a difference. I would have rather taken them in the 4th round than in the 3rd round. Connor probably more like a fifth rounder.

The little of Perine I saw during the year impressed me. I would love the Packers to draft him.

[Deputy Nutz]

He is a bulldozer and he is shifty through the hole. Good acceleration. I don't think he is quite the prospect that Lacy was coming out, but you could probably get him two rounds later than Lacy.

I talked serious shit on Mixon and deservedly so, but that kid is a talent and if there is value there that evens out the media storm for taking him he would most likely be worth the gamble

[pbmax]

Seattle post intelligencer

Washington CB Sidney Jones, consensus first-round NFL draft prospect, leaves pro day on a cart after suffering apparent left leg injury.

[Joemailman]

Seattle post intelligencer

Washington CB Sidney Jones, consensus first-round NFL draft prospect, leaves pro day on a cart after suffering apparent left leg injury.

Good thing I waited to do my Packers Mock Draft.

[smuggler]

Well that fucking sucks for him. Didn't he do the full gamut at the combine? Why bother with a pro day? :-(

[red]

OK, so one thing we know know for sure

WE DON'T NEED TO DRAFT A FUCKING TE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SMBASS]

This draft got a whole lot deeper after the combine, especially with teams that covet speed. Peppers might go within the top twenty. He is a lot of hype, but does have talent. I just don't understand if he was so outstanding why he bounced from position to position? If he was a lock down corner he would have played corner, if he was a dominant safety he would have played safety, if he was Thomas Davis he would have played outside linebacker. I know bouncing him around would cause match up problems, but my concern with him is he will be a continued tweener in the NFL and struggle to meet draft expectations. He can help right away as a returner and special teams, that's a plus for him

You kind of summed up my concerns about Peppers perfectly Nutz. Something about him that just keeps telling me he was a lot of hype because he played at Michigan and he played both O and D. I could be wrong but my Spidey Sense is tingling a little bit when I think about taking him in the 1st if he's even still available. He's a good athlete and I think he'll probably have a decent career but he might not ever end up being that turnover creating impact player that I want. I think he only had 1 Int. in his career and that came at the very end of this last season.

[SMBASS]

I just keep getting a funny feeling that T.T. is going to end up taking RB Joe Williams out of Utah if he's still available when Ted thinks he presents a value.

[red]

i'm getting a funny feeling that he's gonna draft a TE in round one

[Joemailman]

i'm getting a funny feeling that he's gonna draft a TE in round one

Relax Red. :lol: There's probably only 1 TE going in 1st round, and he'll be long gone.

If Sidney Jones' injury is serious though, that does reduce the pool of 1st CB's by 1. Still think the pick will be CB or OLB.

[bobblehead]

The pick will be an edge rusher. TT favors pass rush, and he just spent 2 high picks on CB. He is going to give randall and rollins every chance to improve before he spends a 1 on another CB. I'm not saying its right or wrong, just what it is. Honestly I think what we need is ONE bonafide shutdown corner, and we aint' drafting that at 29 or whatever.

[BZnDallas]

Relax Red. :lol: There's probably only 1 TE going in 1st round, and he'll be long gone.

If Sidney Jones' injury is serious though, that does reduce the pool of 1st CB's by 1. Still think the pick will be CB or OLB.

If it is the ACL how long does he wait to get drafted? Late 2nd? Late 3rd? I'd take him in the 3rd and stash him away.

[SMBASS]

Jones tore his Achilles and it sounds as though the injury is pretty significant.

[Joemailman]

Well that fucking sucks for him. Didn't he do the full gamut at the combine? Why bother with a pro day? :-(


Especially because he has a good Combine. He didn't really have anything to gain.

[Fritz]

Hmmm. TT doesn't typically take medical risks if they're obvious ones. I doubt he'd bite. But I wonder what the overall history of players coming back at a young age from an achilles problem looks like.

[Teamcheez1]

If it is the ACL how long does he wait to get drafted? Late 2nd? Late 3rd? I'd take him in the 3rd and stash him away.

No way we should waste a 3rd round pick (maybe a 6 or a 7) on a serious injury. We have way too many needs to waste a high round draft pick.

A team like Cleveland that has picks to burn should consider it.

[Pugger]

Hmmm. TT doesn't typically take medical risks if they're obvious ones. I doubt he'd bite. But I wonder what the overall history of players coming back at a young age from an achilles problem looks like.

We need help at CB now and this poor kid will be out for a year so I doubt Ted will take him. TT passed on Jaylon Smith last year who if healthy would have been at least a top 5 pick.

[BZnDallas]

No way we should waste a 3rd round pick (maybe a 6 or a 7) on a serious injury. We have way too many needs to waste a high round draft pick.

A team like Cleveland that has picks to burn should consider it.

Yeah, achilles is different than the ACL. I was wrong about that. Not sure I agree 100% about it wasting a pick though. I'm not saying throw away a 1st or 2nd on him like Dallas did with Jaylon last year. Who looks like he will have to play with a brace and drop foot for the rest of his career, if i'm remembering reports correctly. But GB is certainly the type of team that could get away with using a 3rd on a player to stash away if they were going to be out a year. Idk about an achilles however, so i'm not advocating that in this situation anymore. But a solid signing or two and a good 1,2, 4-7 draft and this team can contend for a Super Bowl this year while allowing said draft pick to get healthy and hopefully regain his first round form. And a player with the talent of a Sidney Jones, I think would be worth the gamble. Again, if it was the acl or something players come back all the time from. I'm not as familiar with the achilles so thats different. If he'd even be available when we draft in the 3rd. Teams like you suggest the Browns could take him well before. Or even the Cowboys in the 2nd, they like risky 2nd rounders. Haha

[gbgary]

We need help at CB now and this poor kid will be out for a year so I doubt Ted will take him. TT passed on Jaylon Smith last year who if healthy would have been at least a top 5 pick.

he'll lose speed and ups from this injury. skinny kid. he might be too skinny to bulk up and try safety.

[gbgary]

if jabrill peppers fell to us would tt take him?

[smuggler]

I think we would at least consider Peppers. Jones, with an Achilles injury? Depends on the severity of it, but that's almost a death knell for a corner. Remember Bryant Westbrook? Never the same after his Achilles injury. A simple ACL would have been preferable, gotta say. Would probably be drafted in the 3rd or 4th with a knee injury.

[red]

plus we need a cb for NEXT SEASON

a guy with a shot achilies is not that guy

[Pugger]

if jabrill peppers fell to us would tt take him?

If he fell to us he might be the BPA on Ted's board so he just might. The question is will Peppers fall that far? :?:

[smuggler]

I think he will go in the 20-25 range.

29: R1P29
EDGE DEREK BARNETT
TENNESSEE
61: R2P29
CB KEVIN KING
WASHINGTON
93: R3P29
WR COOPER KUPP
EASTERN WASHINGTON
134: R4P27
TE JAKE BUTT
MICHIGAN
172: R5P28
RB JOE MIXON
OKLAHOMA
182: R5P38
CB BRENDAN LANGLEY
LAMAR
212: R6P28
LB BEN GEDEON
MICHIGAN
247: R7P29
CB EZRA ROBINSON
TENNESSEE STATE

Quick mock before bed. I doubt Barnett will be there in the real world, but this draft touches on all of our weaknesses, except the hole left by Lang.

[Deputy Nutz]

I reposted some of this from the Combine thread and decided to add to it and move it over to the Draft Thread

Holy Balls! Looking at the combine numbers on some of these cornerbacks and they are very intriguing to say the least. There is speed and size throughout this draft class. The Packers or any other team that is in need of a outside coverage should have some spittle at the edge of their mouths, you Ted already does.

Guys that stand out per their numbers at the combine

Jaylen Myrick minnesota
5'10" 200lbs
4.28 40
37.5 vert
If the Packers don't want to spend a first round pick on a corner he might be available late in the second round but he probably isn't going to last to the end of the third round. He excels in man coverage and his knock is his lack of height. He might fit well as a inside cover guy. his 3 cone was a bit average just over 7 seconds. He is also a return guy. Not a big impact in the run game, sort of got man handled by bigger receivers but he plays alot of man coverage

Fabian Moreau UCLA
6'0" 206lbs
4.35 40
38" vert
He is a man on man defender, he looks good covering the outside receiver. Not much in terms of run support. I think he is a better football player than Myrick. Reads routes really well, good instincts. Packers would probably have to take him in the first round

Kevin King Washington
6-3 200
4.43 40
39.5 vert
Great speed and jump, under 4 seconds on his shuttle. His numbers and height are the first thing you notice and you really want to like him. He doesn't have the greatest instincts, and he is pretty grabby with his hands. he seems unsure of himself when in zone, and his instincts hinder him at times when he is man coverage.

Ahkello Witherspoon Colorado
6-3 198
4.45 40
40.5" vert
This guy on film can run with John Ross. He is a crap tackler and doesn't want to partake in the run game, but he has the height, speed, and jumping ability to play the outside and match up against bigger wide receiver in the NFL. Witherspoon could fit nicely in Green Bay but the Packers would have to use a 1st round pick to solidify him coming to Green Bay. Some team could scoop him up in the second round because of his size and jumping ability. That type of combination doesn't last long in drafts, teams are willing to take a risk to protect against the jump ball down field.

Brian Allen Utah
6-3 215
4.48 40
34.5" vert
Can't find a highlight or game film on him on youtube, but I am intrigued with his size and speed. His vertical jump is about average or below but the height helps out

Gareon Conley Ohio St.
6'0" 195
4.44 40
37" vert
On film he does a nice job anticipating routes. Has a smart feel to him on the field. If he gets taken on one play he has a good memory and won't get fooled again. He is a smooth player, but he looks skinny on film. Well coached and he would be worth a 2nd round pick. Packers might not even have a chance on him in the second so if they fell in love with him they would have to take him in the first or god forbid move up in the second round to grab him. CBS has him ranked as the 9th best corner

Adoree Jackson USC
5'10" 185
4.42 40
36 vert
He probably is a better prospect as a returner than a true lock down corner due to his lack of size but he is one of the better athletes in this crop of corners. He is a risk taker and allows for his athleticism to correct mistakes at the college level. Dual threat player for the Trojans, very quick and very aggressive player. With NFL caliber coaching he could be molded into a man coverage cyborg!
He won the Thorpe trophy for the nations best defensive. He is a quality player that could be taken with a 2nd round pick. Size is the biggest question mark for Jackson in a draft full of tall corners.

Chidobe Awuzie Colorado
6'0" 202
4.43 40
34.5" vert
Awuzie has a very solid build and is all of the 202 pounds. Off the top of my head when I watch him on film I see Mike McKenzie the former cornerback in Green Bay. Nothing pops off the film but in a good way. he is smart capable football player that will be used on the outside, slot, and as a rusher off the edge. He is a willing tackler, but not a dynamic tackler. He is where he needs to be on the field. He is also a gunner on the punt team. He is projected as a late first rounder, early 2nd rounder, with so many corners in this draft The Packer could possibly land this guy in the second round based on the direction that other teams go.

Tre'Davis White LSU
5'11" 195
4.47 40
32 vert
White doesn't have any numbers that will blow you away but you know he has played against great talent in the SEC and the film demonstrates his ability as a football player. Some teams will let him drop in favor of taller, faster, and better jumpers but film wise he plays the game as well as any other corner in this draft. He was also the Tigers punt returner, White has the understanding of coverage whether it is zone, or man and you can tell by the way he plays he watches film. He would definitely be worth a first round selection. The negatives is that the college game allows defensive backs to use their hands and he takes full advantage and it will be something that if he continues in the pros he will be called for holding, also he is not a willing tackler.

[pbmax]

Leo Musso baby ...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6-3BkYVsAADmCD.jpg:large

[smuggler]

He's the Jeff Janis of defensive backs. Except slow. And short.

[pbmax]

He's the Jeff Janis of defensive backs. Except slow. And short.

His grit and broad jump will get him there in time.

[Deputy Nutz]

With the signing of Lacy the Packers have no depth behind Montgomery who is apparently staying with the #88. I don't know if that means he will be splitting time at receiver and running back or he just thinks it is cool roaming the backfield with #88. The Packers could kick the tires on some veterans in free agency but I can't see Ted signing Adrian Peterson, or Jamal Charles. I simply don't trust the injury history of Charles and Peterson is also coming off a significant knee injury and he is going to cost some team more cash than he is probably worth at this point in his career.

So to the draft we go and lets break down some scenarios. Dallas taking Elliot high in the 2016 draft paid off and it went against the norm of teams waiting on running backs. Teams might not wait on Fournette, Cook, or McCaffrey this year they could be gone before the 30th selection. Which might not be the worst scenario considering the needs the Packers have on defense, but it would be hard to pass on either of those three with the thirtieth pick in the draft. Out of the three top guys I would prefer Cook, then Fournette, and finally McCaffrey. Cook is the most complete back, while Fournette is probably the best pure running back since Adrian Peterson. McCaffrey reminds me of a more well rounded Reggie Bush, but he isn't going to run the ball 300 times a season. Most likely situation is that Thompson will sign one or two 3rd tier free agents and also take a running back in the middle to late rounds of the draft.

What type of back would the Packers be looking at? Another big boned bruiser like they had in Lacy, or a smaller quicker back that could be effective catching balls out of the backfield? My guess is that the Packers would be looking at a bigger back that can go between the tackles and have Montgomery has the quicker change of pass back that would be relied on to catch the ball out of the backfield.

Alvin Kamara Tenn
5'10" 215
4.56 40
39.5 vert
This kid is fun to watch on film. He is very explosive and quick twitch. He plays faster than his forty time and he gets to top gear right away. There is no hesitation with him and he does a very good job catching the football. Fantastic in open space and can get the edge in the college game. The biggest issue with him is that he doesn't run behind his shoulder pads. He is more slippery than a tackle breaker. He runs tall at times. He looks skinny on film and could stand to gain 10 pounds in the NFL. Packers could see him in the second round.

Joe Williams Utah
5'11" 210
4.41 forty
35" vert
This kid has a smooth feel to him when he is on the field. Good vision and seems to glide through the holes and before you know it he has gained 8 yards. He does a nice job delivering a blow versus taking one. He is a willing blocker and does a nice job catching the ball out of the backfield. His measurables are there and his product on the field is worth the watch. He runs a lot bigger than he is. There is not a whole lot that I saw that I didn't like about him. He is rated a 7th round pick, I don't get it.

Brian Hill Wyoming
6'1" 219
4.51 40
35" vert
Nothing flashing about Brian Hill, but he does a nice job showing patients and gains yards. He isn't a game breaker and he seems to find his biggest runs out of the I formation but will run out of the shotgun. He is a willing blocker and plays hard nose football. His times and measurables are good enough to be a mid round pick.

[Deputy Nutz]

Biegel had a nice twenty yard shuttle. I wouldn't sleep on Biegel

Clement shaved off a 10th or so on his forty, makes him a legit mid round selection. You can't have a 4.68 and expect to be draft before the 6th round

[SMBASS]

Joe Williams is the back who intrigues me. He abruptly quit football for 4 games in the middle of this last season and still rushed for over 1,400 yards. His second game back from, "retirement" he ran for 332 yds. against UCLA. He also rushed for 222 yds. against Indiana in Utah's bowl game. He didn't catch many balls in college so I don't know how his hands are. He has the speed to be a home run hitter and like Nutz said, he plays bigger than he is. I'm not sure where his head is at or how committed he is to football but I wouldn't mind picking him up if everything checks out and he's available when the value warrants. I posted in another thread a while back that I have a feeling he is someone Ted has his eye on.

[Rutnstrut]

With the signing of Lacy the Packers have no depth behind Montgomery who is apparently staying with the #88. I don't know if that means he will be splitting time at receiver and running back or he just thinks it is cool roaming the backfield with #88. The Packers could kick the tires on some veterans in free agency but I can't see Ted signing Adrian Peterson, or Jamal Charles. I simply don't trust the injury history of Charles and Peterson is also coming off a significant knee injury and he is going to cost some team more cash than he is probably worth at this point in his career.

So to the draft we go and lets break down some scenarios. Dallas taking Elliot high in the 2016 draft paid off and it went against the norm of teams waiting on running backs. Teams might not wait on Fournette, Cook, or McCaffrey this year they could be gone before the 30th selection. Which might not be the worst scenario considering the needs the Packers have on defense, but it would be hard to pass on either of those three with the thirtieth pick in the draft. Out of the three top guys I would prefer Cook, then Fournette, and finally McCaffrey. Cook is the most complete back, while Fournette is probably the best pure running back since Adrian Peterson. McCaffrey reminds me of a more well rounded Reggie Bush, but he isn't going to run the ball 300 times a season. Most likely situation is that Thompson will sign one or two 3rd tier free agents and also take a running back in the middle to late rounds of the draft.

What type of back would the Packers be looking at? Another big boned bruiser like they had in Lacy, or a smaller quicker back that could be effective catching balls out of the backfield? My guess is that the Packers would be looking at a bigger back that can go between the tackles and have Montgomery has the quicker change of pass back that would be relied on to catch the ball out of the backfield.

Alvin Kamara Tenn
5'10" 215
4.56 40
39.5 vert
This kid is fun to watch on film. He is very explosive and quick twitch. He plays faster than his forty time and he gets to top gear right away. There is no hesitation with him and he does a very good job catching the football. Fantastic in open space and can get the edge in the college game. The biggest issue with him is that he doesn't run behind his shoulder pads. He is more slippery than a tackle breaker. He runs tall at times. He looks skinny on film and could stand to gain 10 pounds in the NFL. Packers could see him in the second round.

Joe Williams Utah
5'11" 210
4.41 forty
35" vert
This kid has a smooth feel to him when he is on the field. Good vision and seems to glide through the holes and before you know it he has gained 8 yards. He does a nice job delivering a blow versus taking one. He is a willing blocker and does a nice job catching the ball out of the backfield. His measurables are there and his product on the field is worth the watch. He runs a lot bigger than he is. There is not a whole lot that I saw that I didn't like about him. He is rated a 7th round pick, I don't get it.

Brian Hill Wyoming
6'1" 219
4.51 40
35" vert
Nothing flashing about Brian Hill, but he does a nice job showing patients and gains yards. He isn't a game breaker and he seems to find his biggest runs out of the I formation but will run out of the shotgun. He is a willing blocker and plays hard nose football. His times and measurables are good enough to be a mid round pick.

The Packers don't need a RB. They have Monte that everyone thinks is the second coming of Walter Payton.

[Zool]

The Packers don't need a RB. They have Monte that everyone thinks is the second coming of Walter Payton.

You're starting to skip.

[BZnDallas]

The Packers don't need a RB. They have Monte that everyone thinks is the second coming of Walter Payton.

:drma::drma::drma:

[Pugger]

The Packers don't need a RB. They have Monte that everyone thinks is the second coming of Walter Payton.

Are you a positive person like this in every day life?

[pbmax]

Don't worry, its a classic Achilles tear, not one of the new fangled ones.

Tom Pelissero‏ @TomPelissero 52m52 minutes ago
Couple key notes: Jones suffered a "classic" Achilles rupture higher up on his tendon. Generally quicker recovery than insertional rupture.

[pbmax]

Be kinda stunned if this was Ted's pick. No Watt that I can see in first round. Ramczyk goes to Ravens at 16.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7ika_IW0AAtxLJ.jpg:large

[Zool]

I think I would do a backflip if that happened.

[bobblehead]

I think I would do a backflip if that happened.

I would be pissed off to no end if we took a RB in first.

[pbmax]

4 CBs off board at that time.

[gbgary]

I would be pissed off to no end if we took a RB in first.

unless they hijack malcolm butler and sign an upgrade in some other defensive position(s), drafting a rb would be stupid.

[gbgary]

Don't worry, its a classic Achilles tear, not one of the new fangled ones.

Tom Pelissero‏ @TomPelissero 52m52 minutes ago
Couple key notes: Jones suffered a "classic" Achilles rupture higher up on his tendon. Generally quicker recovery than insertional rupture.

take him in the 3rd maybe?

[texaspackerbacker]

Oh ...... THAT's where the Dalvin Cook idea came from hahahahaha. I'll split the difference between Bobblehead being pissed off and Zool doing back flips. I don't want a RB taken in the first round either, but if it happens, I see none better than Dalvin Cook.

[Bretsky]

Highly doubt Cook falls this far; if he did TT might have to take him. He's the real deal.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not completely sold on most of these RBs--like I was with Zeke last year.

[Zool]

I'm not completely sold on most of these RBs--like I was with Zeke last year.

Cook is the only one of the first rounders I like. He's a complete player right now.

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport‏
@RapSheet
#UCLA CB Fabian Moreau, a possible first-round pick, had successful surgery to repair a torn pectoral muscle, per me and @MikeGarafolo

[smuggler]

But wait. ... if we draft Cook will he be the real MVP or will Rodgers???

[bobblehead]

Now, to put it in the right thread:

1) JT Watt OLB
2) Quincy Wilson CB
3) Joe Mixon RB

After really looking into Mixon, he has ONE blemish on his record. His apology was his own, not something read from a cue card. He has done everything right before and since. He has Reggie Bush kinda talent. I'd be thrilled with him in the 3rd.

[red]

Now, to put it in the right thread:

1) JT Watt OLB
2) Quincy Wilson CB
3) Joe Mixon RB

After really looking into Mixon, he has ONE blemish on his record. His apology was his own, not something read from a cue card. He has done everything right before and since. He has Reggie Bush kinda talent. I'd be thrilled with him in the 3rd.

doesn't count, you already posted those 3 guys in the wrong thread

you have to pick 3 new guys

[gbgary]

Now, to put it in the right thread:

1) JT Watt OLB
2) Quincy Wilson CB
3) Joe Mixon RB

After really looking into Mixon, he has ONE blemish on his record. His apology was his own, not something read from a cue card. He has done everything right before and since. He has Reggie Bush kinda talent. I'd be thrilled with him in the 3rd.

i think mixon is gone by then...maybe even in the 1st round. i'd draft the cb with the torn achillies in the 3rd though (if he lasts that long). from what i've read there's a good chance he'll be as good as new. ya know dallas did the same thing with jaylon smith.

[BZnDallas]

i think mixon is gone by then...maybe even in the 1st round. i'd draft the cb with the torn achillies in the 3rd though (if he lasts that long). from what i've read there's a good chance he'll be as good as new. ya know dallas did the same thing with jaylon smith.

Reports on Jaylon aren't good from what I remember hearing last. Something about drop foot and needing a brace. Prob won't be as good as he should have been. Its a shame, really. And I don't think there's anyway Sidney or Mixon last till our 3rd round pick. I can see someone pulling a Cowboy and picking Sidney Jones in the second. He's even saying he'll see the playing field this coming up season. Only time will tell. I'd strongly consider Sidney Jones in the 2nd as well. Gotta remember he excelled in the pass happy Pac-12 or 10 or whatever they call themselves out there.

[smuggler]

The injury to Jaylon Smith was basically a career ender. Jones, I doubt will be career ending, but he might suffer for the rest of his career as a result. Cowboys way overdrafted on Smith considering the extent of his knee injury.

[red]

Reports on Jaylon aren't good from what I remember hearing last. Something about drop foot and needing a brace. Prob won't be as good as he should have been.

that was all talk from the draft last year

here he is a month ago


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j12M-uyRP4s

[BZnDallas]

I believe the talks before the draft were if his nerves were ever going to grow back. He had just had the surgery and certain details weren't known. Some people around here, don't trust the team Drs. Kinda similar views about GBs doctors. They still believe the dropfoot and brace are going to hinder him. Only time will tell.

[texaspackerbacker]

Smith looks pretty damn good in that video from a month ago. This is shaping up to be another Jerry Jones and company coup.

[gbgary]

Smith looks pretty damn good in that video from a month ago. This is shaping up to be another Jerry Jones and company coup.

yup...wouldn't be surprised if plays this year. next year for sure.

maybe ted will take jones in the 1st? tell jones to take it slow and steady and play in 2018. then maybe pull a trade and move up in the 2nd round.

nah...what am i thinkin?

[red]

yup...wouldn't be surprised if plays this year. next year for sure.

maybe ted will take jones in the 1st? tell jones to take it slow and steady and play in 2018. then maybe pull a trade and move up in the 2nd round.

nah...what am i thinkin?

that just adds up to another wasted year of a-rod

we need to find an immediate impact player at CB, imo waiting 2 or 3 years for a #1 corner to develop means wasting the last few good years a-rod has left

i guess he doesn't even need to be an impact cb, just someone who can line up on the other teams best WR and allow less then 150 yards

[Bretsky]

We need pass rush and more pass rush....and a number one CB.....and TEAM SPEED....and......OL and RB help....calculating the bust ratio....do we have 15 draft picks this yr ?

[red]

We need pass rush and more pass rush....and a number one CB.....and TEAM SPEED....and......OL and RB help....calculating the bust ratio....do we have 15 draft picks this yr ?

thats the problem, thats why we couldn't afford to let guys like lacy, lang and/or tretter go

we have way too many desperate needs right now, and we really didn't need to have the many, its all self inflicted

we could have gone into the draft with two major needs, pass rush and CB, instead we have 4

[Bretsky]

thats the problem, thats why we couldn't afford to let guys like lacy, lang and/or tretter go

we have way too many desperate needs right now, and we really didn't need to have the many, its all self inflicted

we could have gone into the draft with two major needs, pass rush and CB, instead we have 4




When we let guys go like this one would think we use those finds to find at least average replacements to we're not so desperate going into the draft. But that's not Ted's way.
He'll use the draft to replenish as much as he can...and then load up on undrafted free agents to hopefully find another gem.

And he'll use that money to extend somebody he wants to extend and frontload funds into this year so our cap is healthy down the road. And we'll stay good.

[Teamcheez1]

I have no problem passing on Lang instead of making him one the five highest paid guards in the NFL.
Lacy has yet to prove he can avoid Golden Corral.

I could have gone either way on these guys, but they were not without quite a bit of risk for the price.

[BZnDallas]

I do find it amusing all these average type players we're losing are leaving such gapping holes to fill. What was the number? 4 huge holes to fill? I'll give you Shields and a partial on Lang. Yes Lang is a Pro Bowler but he does play the easiest position to fill on the O-line. By rule, if the player is average, filling his position shouldn't be considered a big hole.

[bobblehead]

My bet is TT takes pass rush first. CB second. After that its a crap shoot, but I would bet on 2 RB and 2 OL in whatever order. He will hope a guard emerges so he doesn't have to move Bulaga and piss him off in a contract year. Spriggs has to come in about 320 to play tackle though and that would be a lot in one year.

I'm not real worried about RB since I think the OL makes the back. There is a reason it seesm like you always have 3 good RB's at a time or zero. (tony fischer....seriously you all thought he was a stud #3 RB).

[gbgary]

that just adds up to another wasted year of a-rod

we need to find an immediate impact player at CB, imo waiting 2 or 3 years for a #1 corner to develop means wasting the last few good years a-rod has left

i guess he doesn't even need to be an impact cb, just someone who can line up on the other teams best WR and allow less then 150 yards

yup...that's why i hesitated.

[Pugger]

that just adds up to another wasted year of a-rod

we need to find an immediate impact player at CB, imo waiting 2 or 3 years for a #1 corner to develop means wasting the last few good years a-rod has left

i guess he doesn't even need to be an impact cb, just someone who can line up on the other teams best WR and allow less then 150 yards

I hate wasting these years of Rodgers' prime too but it isn't like he's 37/38...

[Pugger]

I have no problem passing on Lang instead of making him one the five highest paid guards in the NFL.
Lacy has yet to prove he can avoid Golden Corral.

I could have gone either way on these guys, but they were not without quite a bit of risk for the price.

Yes, the only real hole right now IMO is OG. RB is a position where a rookie can make an immediate impact for us.

[gbgary]

I hate wasting these years of Rodgers' prime too but it isn't like he's 37/38...

more than his age i'm more worried about his attitude. it's great now, and he's hot to win, but how long will he stay that way without seeing progress? his all-in edict is not something to be taken lightly. he's got plenty of outside interests and if football ever falls down the priority list he'll be gone.

[Bretsky]

I do find it amusing all these average type players we're losing are leaving such gapping holes to fill. What was the number? 4 huge holes to fill? I'll give you Shields and a partial on Lang. Yes Lang is a Pro Bowler but he does play the easiest position to fill on the O-line. By rule, if the player is average, filling his position shouldn't be considered a big hole.


TJ LANG....AVERAGE ??

If that's our standard for average we should start getting some average players to defense cause that would result in some Super Bowl Action

Now that they are gone it seems so convenient to label losses as Marginal. And we'll miss Julius Peppers too; he provided some much needed pass rush at time. And we'll miss Shields (CB) and Lang (OG). And our ILB's already were plodders so no matter how you shake he LBing core to be above average we need an impact player there. Seems like a lot to ask seeing we'll hit some and miss some in the draft.

I'm not in the we should resign them all camp; I'm in the camp that is you let them walk use the cap space to get some help........perhaps on Defense.

But instead of doing so, we let guys walk, and use our loot of draft picks to replace them....and recycle the bottom of the roster, which was nothing to brag about lately. And we'll have cap space..and frontload.

Isn't it the proven recipe to stay good ?

[pbmax]

He's not saying Lang is average, He flatly states is going to be hard to find a CB to take Shields place or duplicate Pro Bowl performance at Guard again. But finding a guard is easier than a #1 corner. Just look at the salaries.

He is complaining that Red's list of gigantic gaping holes has grown to 4.

[pbmax]

Matt Miller‏ @nfldraftscout 4m4 minutes ago
Low 4.5s are the times coming in on Dalvin Cook's pro day 40 time.

[BZnDallas]

He's not saying Lang is average, He flatly states is going to be hard to find a CB to take Shields place or duplicate Pro Bowl performance at Guard again. But finding a guard is easier than a #1 corner. Just look at the salaries.

He is complaining that Red's list of gigantic gaping holes has grown to 4.

Thanks PB. That's exactly what I was saying. Other than Lang and Shields our losses have been average at best. Yet to read that some folks think the sky is falling is humorous.

[red]

I do find it amusing all these average type players we're losing are leaving such gapping holes to fill. What was the number? 4 huge holes to fill? I'll give you Shields and a partial on Lang. Yes Lang is a Pro Bowler but he does play the easiest position to fill on the O-line. By rule, if the player is average, filling his position shouldn't be considered a big hole.

We need STARTERS at guard, and RB. And a #1 cb, and a #3 pass rusher to replace peppers

The guard we lost was one of the best in the NFL, the entire was way above average although most packer fans are now shitting on him that he's gone, and peppers was above average

Those are self inflicted wounds and hole that didn't need to be there. WE HAVE THE CAP SPACE

The only massive hole that we had no control over was #1 cab

If you think we can replace those 4 spots (with competent) players in this draft alone, you're delusional

[red]

Yes, the only real hole right now IMO is OG. RB is a position where a rookie can make an immediate impact for us.

Some teams have hit on some guys who are immediate players at RB, I don't think we've had that kind of luck over the years, and RB overall has a very high bust rate

[BZnDallas]

Some teams have hit on some guys who are immediate players at RB, I don't think we've had that kind of luck over the years, and RB overall has a very high bust rate

Lacy won OROY. Was that immediate enough? Too bad he ate his way off this team.

[Zool]

Lacy won OROY. Was that immediate enough? Too bad he ate his way off this team.

Also Franklin had some real signs of promise before breaking his neck.

[BZnDallas]

Also Franklin had some real signs of promise before breaking his neck.

True true. Damn the luck GB has had with losing young talent to neck injuries. Fin and Nick, Franklin and a promising WR from awhile back off the top of my head. Damn shame.

[ThunderDan]

True true. Damn the luck GB has had with losing young talent to neck injuries. Fin and Nick, Franklin and a promising WR from awhile back off the top of my head. Damn shame.

Murphy.

[bobblehead]

We need STARTERS at guard, and RB. And a #1 cb, and a #3 pass rusher to replace peppers

The guard we lost was one of the best in the NFL, the entire was way above average although most packer fans are now shitting on him that he's gone, and peppers was above average

Those are self inflicted wounds and hole that didn't need to be there. WE HAVE THE CAP SPACE

The only massive hole that we had no control over was #1 cab

If you think we can replace those 4 spots (with competent) players in this draft alone, you're delusional

Lang likely will be replaced by someone on the roster right now. I think they could maneuver spriggs around, it might be patrick, or maybe even Barclay can be a functional guard if he focuses on just that.

Montgomery was a better RB than Lacy last year. We need to adjust the offense so instead of asking him to pass block we use him as an outlet if teams blitz. And again, its a deep RB draft.

Peppers will hurt an already hurting D. I think losing hyde hurts. Again, we hope some guys step up like Fackrell and Elliiot. We hope we draft a CB in a deep draft to replace hyde. The big deal is that we don't have a true #1 CB. Doubtful we draft a shields ready player. That means we need a healthy Clay, and draft a good edge rusher in the 1st so we can compensate for our lack of 1 elite CB.

[pbmax]

If you think we can replace those 4 spots (with competent) players in this draft alone, you're delusional

That's what everyone was thinking when Sitton left.

The current rosters has Murphy, Spriggs, Patrick and possibly Bulaga moving to play LG.

OLB for Peppers has Fuckdoggle and Holy Fackrell after a year of free weights and horse steroids.

CB does have a hole because while I still like the 3 youngsters, none will be Shields this year. I do think that between House/Gunter and Randall/Rollins you might get a tandem as good as Shields/Hayward-Randall-Rollins were in 2015.

The RB will be a backup to the starter Monty. That by definition cannot be a hole nor can it be a spot where the starter needs to be replaced.

[Pugger]

Lang likely will be replaced by someone on the roster right now. I think they could maneuver spriggs around, it might be patrick, or maybe even Barclay can be a functional guard if he focuses on just that.

Montgomery was a better RB than Lacy last year. We need to adjust the offense so instead of asking him to pass block we use him as an outlet if teams blitz. And again, its a deep RB draft.

Peppers will hurt an already hurting D. I think losing hyde hurts. Again, we hope some guys step up like Fackrell and Elliiot. We hope we draft a CB in a deep draft to replace hyde. The big deal is that we don't have a true #1 CB. Doubtful we draft a shields ready player. That means we need a healthy Clay, and draft a good edge rusher in the 1st so we can compensate for our lack of 1 elite CB.

Ty wasn't better than Eddie was last year. Before he got hurt Lacy was averaging 5/1 yds a carry and he is pretty good at picking up the blitz. Monty needs work in pass pro. This appears to be a good RB draft class so we can get a pretty good one there.

We will miss Peppers leadership but I've been hearing that guy we got from the 'Skins is a pretty good locker room guy. Can House fill Hyde's shoes? We need Randall and/or Rollins to bounce back and get another one in this deep DB draft.

[Bretsky]

Ty wasn't better than Eddie was last year. Before he got hurt Lacy was averaging 5/1 yds a carry and he is pretty good at picking up the blitz. Monty needs work in pass pro. This appears to be a good RB draft class so we can get a pretty good one there.

We will miss Peppers leadership but I've been hearing that guy we got from the 'Skins is a pretty good locker room guy. Can House fill Hyde's shoes? We need Randall and/or Rollins to bounce back and get another one in this deep DB draft.


Our new DL is a good attitude guy who can clog holes and run stuff.

I think they continue to use Morgan Burnett at ILB in the nickel....HELL...Matthews aside, he might be our 2nd best ILB

Hyde was always dam smart with great instincts. Those two knuckleheads you mentioned above so far have shown talent but no instincts. Hopefully that changes.

As far as an occasional blitzer/playmaker......I think Burnett will sometimes be used as Hyde was

[red]

Ty wasn't better than Eddie was last year. Before he got hurt Lacy was averaging 5/1 yds a carry and he is pretty good at picking up the blitz. Monty needs work in pass pro. This appears to be a good RB draft class so we can get a pretty good one there.

We will miss Peppers leadership but I've been hearing that guy we got from the 'Skins is a pretty good locker room guy. Can House fill Hyde's shoes? We need Randall and/or Rollins to bounce back and get another one in this deep DB draft.

I think house will be a good replacement for Hyde, who imo was our most dependable cb last season

[red]

What kind of defense could we play if we draft Jabrill peppers?

3 safeties on the field, 2 of which can play up at the line and stop the run

It would be a smaller lineup, but a better one at coverage and maybe stoping the run over bevis and butthead and just 2 safeties

[pbmax]

After really looking into Mixon, he has ONE blemish on his record. His apology was his own, not something read from a cue card. He has done everything right before and since. He has Reggie Bush kinda talent. I'd be thrilled with him in the 3rd.

He has more than one blemish and one of them was after hitting the women.

Backing a parking attendant down with his car after he ripped up a parking citation and threw it back at them. Cost him one game. and this was after being suspended for decking the women. http://kfor.com/2016/11/04/newly-released-documents-reveal-what-happened-between-an-ou-football-player-and-a-parking-attendant/


However, Dalvin Cook might make this guy look good in comparison.

Ian Kenyon‏ @IanKenyonNFL

-Robbery (2009)
-Firing a weapon (2010)
-"Criminal Mischief" (2014)
-Mistreating puppies (2014)
-Aggravated assault (2014--not charged)

[RashanGary]

Eh, if he hit a woman, just hope he learns and grows. People make mistakes.

[Carolina_Packer]

Lacy won OROY. Was that immediate enough? Too bad he ate his way off this team.

Feast Mode

[Zool]

Feast Mode

Seattle is going from Beast Mode, to Beast A La Mode.

[bobblehead]

Ty wasn't better than Eddie was last year. Before he got hurt Lacy was averaging 5/1 yds a carry and he is pretty good at picking up the blitz. Monty needs work in pass pro. This appears to be a good RB draft class so we can get a pretty good one there.

We will miss Peppers leadership but I've been hearing that guy we got from the 'Skins is a pretty good locker room guy. Can House fill Hyde's shoes? We need Randall and/or Rollins to bounce back and get another one in this deep DB draft.

Monty avg. 5.9 and had 6 more carries. He also had 5 more first downs. He also caught 44 passes to eddies awe inspiring .... wait for it .... 4! He beat Lacy in every offensive category except nose hairs.

[bobblehead]

He has more than one blemish and one of them was after hitting the women.

Backing a parking attendant down with his car after he ripped up a parking citation and threw it back at them. Cost him one game. and this was after being suspended for decking the women. http://kfor.com/2016/11/04/newly-released-documents-reveal-what-happened-between-an-ou-football-player-and-a-parking-attendant/


However, Dalvin Cook might make this guy look good in comparison.

Ian Kenyon‏ @IanKenyonNFL

-Robbery (2009)
-Firing a weapon (2010)
-"Criminal Mischief" (2014)
-Mistreating puppies (2014)
-Aggravated assault (2014--not charged)

Ah...didn't read about the "randy moss wannabe" incident. I was Ok with everything about Cook until I read mistreating puppies. Fuck him, don't want him.

[Pugger]

What kind of defense could we play if we draft Jabrill peppers?

3 safeties on the field, 2 of which can play up at the line and stop the run

It would be a smaller lineup, but a better one at coverage and maybe stoping the run over bevis and butthead and just 2 safeties

Isn't Peppers a safety? Can he play corner? I'll be rather shocked if he lasts until #29 so Ted might have to move up substantially to take him.

[Pugger]

Monty avg. 5.9 and had 6 more carries. He also had 5 more first downs. He also caught 44 passes to eddies awe inspiring .... wait for it .... 4! He beat Lacy in every offensive category except nose hairs.

He did? 5.9? I didn't know that. Ty does have to work on picking up the blitz, tho.

[BZnDallas]

Isn't Peppers a safety? Can he play corner? I'll be rather shocked if he lasts until #29 so Ted might have to move up substantially to take him.

I could very well be mistaken here, but I always viewed Jabrill as a better, faster version of Hyde. I liked Hyde, and thought he was solid, but too many times I watched him trail the opposing reciever going across the middle. With everybody wanting team speed to improve, I'm a lil shocked at the responses from this forum over the loss of Hyde. Again I thought he was a solid Green Packer, and I'm always sorry to see them leave, but I'm excited by the speed of the crop of CBs coming out this year.

[pbmax]

He did? 5.9? I didn't know that. Ty does have to work on picking up the blitz, tho.

Agreed. He was late a couple times, made a bad read a couple of times (remember those delayed A gap blitzes that kept working?) and wasn't squared up with his guy a couple of times.

But he's smart, young, and conscientious. I think he'll figure it out.

[Smidgeon]

Monty avg. 5.9 and had 6 more carries. He also had 5 more first downs. He also caught 44 passes to eddies awe inspiring .... wait for it .... 4! He beat Lacy in every offensive category except nose hairs.

All true, but Monty felt more like feast or famine, whereas Lacy was pretty consistent in his yardage <insert "just feast" joke here>. Am I misremembering?

[gbgary]

True true. Damn the luck GB has had with losing young talent to neck injuries. Fin and Nick, Franklin and a promising WR from awhile back off the top of my head. Damn shame.

sharpe

[gbgary]

Monty avg. 5.9 and had 6 more carries. He also had 5 more first downs. He also caught 44 passes to eddies awe inspiring .... wait for it .... 4! He beat Lacy in every offensive category except nose hairs.

he was pretty damn good last year for a plug-in...hell...he was pretty damn good period. like mm said...it depends "on his availability." if he stays healthy and comes to camp in rb shape he could have a very good year. hope he put on some muscle weight over the winter.


All true, but Monty felt more like feast or famine, whereas Lacy was pretty consistent in his yardage <insert "just feast" joke here>. Am I misremembering?

lol...lacy was pretty good. feast or famine for monty is harsh though. what running back doesn't get stuffed once in a while?

[The Shadow]

Isn't Peppers a safety? Can he play corner? I'll be rather shocked if he lasts until #29 so Ted might have to move up substantially to take him.

I have a sneaking hunch that Peppers could well be available at our pick. And if so, it might go a long way toward addressing the billion times receivers have crossed the middle uncovered.

[pbmax]

I have a sneaking hunch that Peppers could well be available at our pick. And if so, it might go a long way toward addressing the billion times receivers have crossed the middle uncovered.

Scheme as much as personnel. Steelers get hit in the middle just as often.

[Joemailman]

Isn't Peppers a safety? Can he play corner? I'll be rather shocked if he lasts until #29 so Ted might have to move up substantially to take him.

Peppers is a SS/LB. He does not have the coverage skills to play corner.

[Iron Mike]

Seattle is going from Beast Mode, to Beast A La Mode.

Beast Mode to Obese Mode...

[RashanGary]

Just watched some Joe Mixon tape. He's a beast.

Read some chick was slapping him and he punched her in the face. Whatever. She wants to hit she better be ready to get hit. That's karma.

[Joemailman]

I wouldn't rule Mixon out based just on that incident. I think you have to look into his background and see if he's just a real jerk, or if he's a guy who had a bad reaction in an adversarial situation. Of course, you might have to look into whether he's a guy prone to bad reactions in adversarial situations. What he did though appears to be a bad reaction, not a premeditated decision to punch a woman in the face.

[red]

I wouldn't rule Mixon out based just on that incident. I think you have to look into his background and see if he's just a real jerk, or if he's a guy who had a bad reaction in an adversarial situation. Of course, you might have to look into whether he's a guy prone to bad reactions in adversarial situations. What he did though appears to be a bad reaction, not a premeditated decision to punch a woman in the face.

did you read the laundry list of things he's gotten in trouble for?

[smuggler]

sharpe

Terrence Murphy

[pbmax]

did you read the laundry list of things he's gotten in trouble for?

Cook has the long list, Mixon has the one other incident where he went Randy Moss on a parking attendant.

[pbmax]

Just watched some Joe Mixon tape. He's a beast.

Read some chick was slapping him and he punched her in the face. Whatever. She wants to hit she better be ready to get hit. That's karma.

Its also a crime.

[red]

Cook has the long list, Mixon has the one other incident where he went Randy Moss on a parking attendant.

oh, i thought that was about mixon

guess it pays to read the whole post sometimes

[red]

Just watched some Joe Mixon tape. He's a beast.

Read some chick was slapping him and he punched her in the face. Whatever. She wants to hit she better be ready to get hit. That's karma.

heres her side of the story, before she slapped him


"When I said I would never in a million years go anywhere with you, he goes, 'Oh, so you'd rather go home with that f---ing f----t?'" Molitor said in the police interview. "I got really mad, so I faced Joe and was like, 'Don't f--- with me. Do not mess with my friend. Just stop. Go away.' And he was like, 'Oh, you're a bad b----, what are you going to do about it?'"

he also says that she was yelling a bunch of racial slurs at him, but in the video you notice that there are many other black people in the diner, and none of them are acting like shes using slurs at him

and this all goes back to what started this all. she wouldn't fuck him, and he wouldn't take no for an answer

[yetisnowman]

Just watched some Joe Mixon tape. He's a beast.

Read some chick was slapping him and he punched her in the face. Whatever. She wants to hit she better be ready to get hit. That's karma.

Oh look this moron again. The guy that claimed sexual assault (i.e. a man forcing his genitals on to another woman's face) is acceptable, and just part of life for a woman in college.
A tiny blond girl slapped him in the neck after he was aggressively in her face and trying to spit game at her. Then he cold cocked her with a right hook. Shoving her or restraining her is one thing but there is no excuse for what he did. Glad he has degenerate internet warriors standing up for him though.

[yetisnowman]

Mixon is a scumbag. Good kids don't do what he did. He only apologized AFTER the video was released and everyone could see what a piece of shit he was.
Now you want to say I don't care if the Packers draft a scumbag, fine. But don't tell me he's not a scumbag.

[smuggler]

Eh, he's a new age guy. Trying to put women on equal footing. As far as I'm concerned, he made a reasonable response to heinous and overt racism. Compare his criminal history with Dalvin Cook. Then tell me which is the scumbag.

[Bretsky]

Eh, he's a new age guy. Trying to put women on equal footing. As far as I'm concerned, he made a reasonable response to heinous and overt racism. Compare his criminal history with Dalvin Cook. Then tell me which is the scumbag.

BOTH

[red]

BOTH

yup

[Freak Out]

Turn your back and walk away. That's just stupid. I want tough football players on the Packers not idiot thugs.

[red]

he didn't just hit her, which is bad enough

he hit her with everything he had

[Bretsky]

he didn't just hit her, which is bad enough

he hit her with everything he had


IMO you don't hit chicks

[smuggler]

I don't disagree.

[BZnDallas]

I'm all for second chances. If you say he's already had his second chance and its true, them I'm out. But if he's been clean since I take a look at him. We can always sit down later and try to set up some community service programs for domestic violence or awareness rally's or a number of things. Dez Bryant has done that here in Dallas in the past, after the rumor/story he hit his mom.

[BZnDallas]

However, I wouldn't touch him till the 3rd and I don't think he falls that far. As of right now I'm looking for OLB/Edge in the 1st, CB in the 2nd, then either Guard or RB in the third. I say this knowing targeting a single position is a sure way to disappointment.

[ThunderDan]

Just watched some Joe Mixon tape. He's a beast.

Read some chick was slapping him and he punched her in the face. Whatever. She wants to hit she better be ready to get hit. That's karma.
That is complete bullshit.

My ex-wife hit me and I pulled back my fist to hit in the face and then I stopped. I realized I wouldn't allow her actions to turn my into something I would hate to be. I moved out of the house the next morning.

To excuse someone else's behavior is ridiculous. We always have the choice to make better decisions. Be a real man. Be better than people that behave like that woman was.

[esoxx]

That is complete bullshit.

My ex-wife hit me and I pulled back my fist to hit in the face and then I stopped. I realized I wouldn't allow her actions to turn my into something I would hate to be. I moved out of the house the next morning.

To excuse someone else's behavior is ridiculous. We always have the choice to make better decisions. Be a real man. Be better than people that behave like that woman was.

Repped.

BTW, JH is just trolling.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, since we're on to personal experiences, having seen the Mixon video, it reminded me of one event. I was about 14 and my brother was about 10. He was pounding on my head over and over. Truth be told, I probably had been teasing him. Anyway, I tucked up like Ali on the ropes, but at one point, he got me enough to stun me. I had just gone through a growth spurt, and I reacted with a good right cross and caught him on the chin. I had been in fights, but that was the first time I ever heard that special "click" sound when you really connect. My brother was crying and moaning; My mother got super mad; And when my dad got home from work ...... let's just say nobody had a problem with corporal punishment in those days.

The point is, I saw the video, and I think that woman caught Mixon just enough to sting him and cause an unthinking reaction. That doesn't excuse it, and I'm not saying the bitch had it coming, but if he doesn't have a history of that sort of thing, he shouldn't have his life ruined any more than it already has been over this incident. I also saw Mixon interviewed, and he seemed like a humble and decent guy.

Also, I'm on record saying many months ago that he is a damn good player - a far better NFL prospect than his team mate, Perrine. I'd be pleased to have the Packers get him as a third round bargain and maybe even in the 2nd round.

[esoxx]

DP

[RashanGary]

Not trolling. That's karma. Calmer man walks away and never goes near her again. But not everyone feels calm after they get hit. I would do better there, but I don't hate the guy for snapping like that. I get it.

My older sister stomped the shit out of me until I turned 14ish and she never hit me again. Why? Because I knocked her out. I was smaller and as far as I'm concerned she had it coming. Still don't feel bad for it.

mixon, sure he needs to learn and grow, but I don't judge him too bad for what he did when he was 18 in that video. He could be a great guy, and I mean that. That's not trolling. I know great people who have done far worse. If I talked to him and he seemed like a good guy who has a temper problem that he's worked on, I'd sign him in a heartbeat.

[bobblehead]

That is complete bullshit.

My ex-wife hit me and I pulled back my fist to hit in the face and then I stopped. I realized I wouldn't allow her actions to turn my into something I would hate to be. I moved out of the house the next morning.

To excuse someone else's behavior is ridiculous. We always have the choice to make better decisions. Be a real man. Be better than people that behave like that woman was.

Don't read this as excusing what he did, but think. Your upbringing was likely night and day compared to Mixon. You got angry enough to pull your fist back. You weren't an 18 year old kid.

He was 100% wrong, but again, look at the circumstance. Blondie didn't like Mixon hitting on her. She taunted him. He lunged at her. She slapped him. He decked her. Its a very unfortunate escalation that he should be above, but he wasn't. He seems to have learned a lesson. Maybe he is a complete punk and has put on a good act since, but I believe he is a normal kid who did something incredibly stupid. I wouldn't be heartbroken if we grabbed him at the end of the 2nd or 3rd.

[smuggler]

Thank you bobblehead. Great post.

[Zool]

Eh, he's a new age guy. Trying to put women on equal footing. As far as I'm concerned, he made a reasonable response to heinous and overt racism. Compare his criminal history with Dalvin Cook. Then tell me which is the scumbag.

Holy shit, reasonable response? You do know that he walked into the place calling her friend a faggot first?

[pbmax]

Its a crime. Karma doesn't enter into it. And they weren't family. He was not hitting on her but taunting or insulting her friend outside. Most people do not react like that.

He later pulled a Moss with a parking attendant.

He has a lot to answer for and I am not impressed by the one statement I have seen that I would bet was drafted by his lawyers. He's been on the radio since, but I have not heard his interviews. He would need a LOT more acts of contrition before I would even consider changing my mind from thinking this is simply a checklist for a contract drive.

Money is a poor motivator for personal improvement.

Would still take him over Cook, who has a much worse track record.

[RashanGary]

Didn't know all the details. Yeah, it's worse than it looked on camera knowing those details.

I still have hope for him as a human being though. People get lost and people get found. So I'm still not gonna call him scum, but he deserves scrutiny for this, for sure. He earned that.

[red]

well, we brought the piece of shit in for a visit

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/02/packers-had-joe-mixon-in-for-a-visit/

guess we're that desperate to pay a RB less then 3 million a year that we are willing to look at the shit of the earth

[esoxx]

Well, no way they draft the POS now. TT never shows his hand like that. Diversionary tatic to bring him in.

[red]

good point

[pbmax]

They tend to bring in people they are thinking about grabbing later. So maybe they think this kid falls substantially?

[gbgary]

like i said before...he'll be gone before we pick anyway.

[wist43]

Guys I like so far...

Hassan Reddick, LB, Temple (would trade up if necessary to get him - would play him all over, but start him in the middle on "base" downs)
Zach Cunningham, OLB, Vanderbilt
DeMarcus Walker, DE, FSU
Carl Lawson, OLB, Auburn
Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova
Jarrad Davis LB, Florida

Tons and Tons of depth in the front seven - be it DL, Edge, or LB. Gonna take some time to look thru them.

Gonna start looking at CB's now...

[RashanGary]

Guys I like so far...

Hassan Reddick, LB, Temple.

I like this guy too. Might take him a year or two before he's fully comfortable at ILB, but he'd rush the passer right away and make one or two big plays per game where his physicality makes the difference.

[Freak Out]

No way Reddick is there when we pick.

[wist43]

No way Reddick is there when we pick.

I don't think he'll be there either, but... if the various mocks I've been looking at are any indication, this is going to be one the most wide open and unpredictable first 2 rounds we've seen in a long time.

Some mocks have guys going in the top 10, others have them going in the late 1st round. It is a very deep draft at several positions and there is a lot of variance in opinion as to where teams have players ranked.

Hopefully Ted won't fuck it up with another "good football player".

As for Reddick - he isn't a Dom/TT kind of player anyway... Too short to be pencilled in on the outside, and they don't care enough about the ILB position to invest a 1st round pick in.

[Bretsky]

Guys I like so far...

Hassan Reddick, LB, Temple (would trade up if necessary to get him - would play him all over, but start him in the middle on "base" downs)
Zach Cunningham, OLB, Vanderbilt
DeMarcus Walker, DE, FSU
Carl Lawson, OLB, Auburn
Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova
Jarrad Davis LB, Florida

Tons and Tons of depth in the front seven - be it DL, Edge, or LB. Gonna take some time to look thru them.

Gonna start looking at CB's now...


BADGER HATER !!! lol

[smuggler]

I think it's the first time wist and I agree on something. I like Reddick as the best edge player for GB's defense. I like Cunnnigham in the inside, possibly at our spot at 29.

[pbmax]

Alright, I am quite cheap by nature, but I am considering buying a draft guide so I can more effectively fend off Bretsky's assaults on my player evaluations (read mostly Cullen Jenkins). I also want some evidence that wist and smuggler (think it was smuggler) are nuts for thinking Hasan Reddick can play OLB for the Packers.

Anyone who wants details should head right to the Garbage.

[BZnDallas]

Alright, I am quite cheap by nature, but I am considering buying a draft guide so I can more effectively fend off Bretsky's assaults on my player evaluations (read mostly Cullen Jenkins). I also want some evidence that wist and smuggler (think it was smuggler) are nuts for thinking Hasan Reddick can play OLB for the Packers.

Anyone who wants details should head right to the Garbage.

How does one gain entry to the Garbage? I know I only have under 600 posts, but I've been a member for over a decade. Just wondering.

[BZnDallas]

Sorry, I've been an observer for over a decade. Been a member almost a decade ��

[pbmax]

How does one gain entry to the Garbage? I know I only have under 600 posts, but I've been a member for over a decade. Just wondering.

You have to contact a Moderator (Zool or Little Whiskey) or Madtown himself by PM and ask.

[red]

How does one gain entry to the Garbage? I know I only have under 600 posts, but I've been a member for over a decade. Just wondering.

Yeah, it's not a super secret special club, anyone can get access

And it is home to my greatest thread

[BZnDallas]

Yeah, it's not a super secret special club, anyone can get access

And it is home to my greatest thread

PB and Red, thank you very much for the info!

[pbmax]

Peter Schrader‏ @PSchrags 36m36 minutes ago
Here's one for Wednesday night. Heard from multiple front office execs over last few days. Feeling is now Christian McCaffery goes Top 10.

[BZnDallas]

Peter Schrader‏ @PSchrags 36m36 minutes ago
Here's one for Wednesday night. Heard from multiple front office execs over last few days. Feeling is now Christian McCaffery goes Top 10.

Awesome! Keep pushing that defensive talent down to 29!

[wist43]

As for corners... not thrilled with any of corners being considered in our range at 29.

After the 1st 2 go off the board, the one I've liked the most that I've looked at is Rasul Douglas. That said, i haven't had much time to look at them much.

Don't think Douglas will be there at our 2nd pick.

[bobblehead]

Yeah, it's not a super secret special club, anyone can get access

And it is home to my greatest thread

The one where you cried like a school girl and begged Mad to ban all of us who dared speak a political breath?

[red]

The one where you cried like a school girl and begged Mad to ban all of us who dared speak a political breath?

no, the "FUCK" thread

and i didn't need to do any begging, i had some "silent partners" in that ordeal

[pbmax]

Help is on the way.

Bob McGinn‏ @BobMcGinn 2m2 minutes ago
St. Norbert LS Joe Rotherham (GB Notre Dame) worked out for #Packers Fri. Began career at Nebraska. Father, Gary, is on Packers board.

[Teamcheez1]

Help is on the way.

Bob McGinn‏ @BobMcGinn 2m2 minutes ago
St. Norbert LS Joe Rotherham (GB Notre Dame) worked out for #Packers Fri. Began career at Nebraska. Father, Gary, is on Packers board.

We look to have one of the deepest long snapper groups in the NFL......

[RashanGary]

If TT was ever interested in a fast star ILB, Jarred Davis looks like a beast inside!!

[hoosier]

Help is on the way.

Bob McGinn‏ @BobMcGinn 2m2 minutes ago
St. Norbert LS Joe Rotherham (GB Notre Dame) worked out for #Packers Fri. Began career at Nebraska. Father, Gary, is on Packers board.

Nepotism!!!

[wist43]

If TT was ever interested in a fast star ILB, Jarred Davis looks like a beast inside!!

I like Davis better than what we have, but he's strictly an inside guy I think. Don't think Ted would even consider an ILB as high as Davis is likely to go.

I'm hoping for Reddick or maybe Cunningham in the 1st.

Have you seen where CB Rasul Douglas is slotted?? I've seen as high as 2nd round and as low as 5th round... liked what I saw of him.

Seems to be a lot of very wide variation of opinion throughout this draft... must be because it's so deep.

[RashanGary]

Good find in Douglas, wist. Looks so natural and instinctive.... like Woodson who was always doing little smart things that looked on accident but he's just that much more dialed in than everyone else.

I worry a little bit about that speed, and he should drop because of it. I think we could get him in the 2nd and have a playmaker from game 1. Maybe he'll get beat once in a while cuz of the long speed, but he's so smart strong and aggressive attacking the ball and natural in gaining position that he could easily make up for it.

Pick 1, reddick or Cunningham or Davis and pick 2 Douglas would be fun.

[pbmax]

Free: Outside Linebacker history and possible draft picks who fit the mold.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/packers/story/1769221-thompson-s-outside-linebacker-draft-history


Without Peppers and Jones, the Packers have lost their elephants. Should they want a player to fill that role, easily the best option is Michigan’s Taco Charlton (6-5 5/8, 277; 4.92 40; 4.39 shuttle; 7.17 3-cone). Other considerations are Florida State’s DeMarcus Walker (6-3 5/8, 280; 4.88 40; 4.71 shuttle; 7.91 3-cone), Michigan State’s Malik McDowell (6-6 1/4, 295; 4.85 40; 4.53 shuttle; 7.69 3-cone), Villanova’s Tanoh Kpassagnon (6-6 3/4, 289; 4.83 40; 4.62 shuttle; 7.46 3-cone) and Arkansas’ Deatrich Wise (6-5 1/4, 274; 4.92 40; 4.36 shuttle; 7.07 3-cone).

[Joemailman]

Free: Outside Linebacker history and possible draft picks who fit the mold.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/packers/story/1769221-thompson-s-outside-linebacker-draft-history

Is there any distinction anymore between a 4-3 DE prospect and an Elephant prospect?

[red]

Is there any distinction anymore between a 4-3 DE prospect and an Elephant prospect?

my draft magazine i usually get isn't even making a distiction between 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs anymore. they just lump them into the "edge" category

[pbmax]

Is there any distinction anymore between a 4-3 DE prospect and an Elephant prospect?

I don't know how McCarthy thinks of this position. Size or height maybe? Only Neal was 6' 3". Without knowing how he thought about them, the only way to distinguish them to me was that the Elephants all used to play the line, with a hand in the dirt.

But both Peppers and Jones were on the larger side.

[run pMc]

I'm in the BPA camp generally, but if I purely off need I think "Edge' is a bigger need than CB. History shows CM3 and Perry won't be healthy for a full 16 and until they prove otherwise, Fackrell/Gilbert/Elliott are a bunch of who-dat's behind them. I think they look to draft someone early...Charlton might fit the Peppers/Jones mold, the others I'm not a fan of. McDowell scares a lot of people with his [lack of] motor...Mike Daniels would eat him alive.

Better pash rush helps the secondary, and they have some high picks there that should bounce back. I think they need more speed at corner, Rollins and Gunter aren't burners and Goodson/Dorleant are coming off significant knee injuries.

TT has already spent a couple of mid-round picks on ILB. I'm guessing he's looking at those as significant investments at a non-premium position that should pay off, otherwise he's gotta go back to the well. I think they like the trio of Ryan/Martinez/Thomas with CM3 or Burnett playing there sometimes. They'll pick over the UDFA pile for some camp bodies who might surprise.

[pbmax]

run has a good point. I think depth at CB is priority 1. But history is also blinking a warning light that for at least three games this season, neither Matthews nor Perry will be able to play.

Will renew my call for someone with PFF access to get some league rankings for Packers pass rush on board. If you add in pressures, the CBs had a much worse year than an above average pass rush.

[RashanGary]

Ideally I'd prefer a pass rusher first too. They're hard to find. Lots of corners in this draft.

Pass rusher / corner / RB would be the 1st 2nd 3rd I'd be hoping for!

[RashanGary]

I'd take a super fast star ILB who can rush the passer too. I'd be happy with that. I like jabril peppers too.

Peppers / edge falls to us / corner falls to us would be exciting too. Lots of depth where we need help this year.

[pbmax]

BPA-Defense is my request.

Would need to be Rodgers level talent to drop for me to want offense.

[pbmax]

Mike Tanier @MikeTanier

Gosh, if only there were good RBs in this draft.
Or any history of midround picks succeeding.
Or evidence that old RBs are bad investment.

[Pugger]

I'd take a super fast star ILB who can rush the passer too. I'd be happy with that. I like jabril peppers too.

Peppers / edge falls to us / corner falls to us would be exciting too. Lots of depth where we need help this year.

Do you think Peppers will last until #29?

[Zool]

Do you think Peppers will last until #29?

I wonder the same thing. Is he as good as perception, or is he more hype?

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd take a super fast star ILB who can rush the passer too. I'd be happy with that.

That would be my top choice to if one is available. I haven't heard much about this Jared Davis. 2nd or 3rd, Rasul Douglas sounds like the right type of Corner - instinctive. I don't really want a RB early. Maybe go O Line about 3rd.

[red]

Do you think Peppers will last until #29?

He's being mocked all over the place from top 10 to second round

So, no one knows

[wist43]

I'd take a super fast star ILB who can rush the passer too. I'd be happy with that. I like jabril peppers too.

Peppers / edge falls to us / corner falls to us would be exciting too. Lots of depth where we need help this year.


That would be my top choice to if one is available. I haven't heard much about this Jared Davis. 2nd or 3rd, Rasul Douglas sounds like the right type of Corner - instinctive. I don't really want a RB early. Maybe go O Line about 3rd.

That would Reddick... wouldn't say "super fast", but the guy is a bona fide stud. Played DE and outside in college, but I'd play him inside.

If he drops into the 20's, I'd trade up to get him.

[wist43]

What is everyone's take on Kpassognon??

Despite being "high cut" - a trait I tend not to like - I think he is athletic enough to make an impact.

[Bretsky]

That would Reddick... wouldn't say "super fast", but the guy is a bona fide stud. Played DE and outside in college, but I'd play him inside.

If he drops into the 20's, I'd trade up to get him.


Trading up in round one often means giving up a round 2 or round 3 pick. Not sure that would be smart given our portfolio of holes

[wist43]

Trading up in round one often means giving up a round 2 or round 3 pick. Not sure that would be smart given our portfolio of holes

Not talking about moving up 15 spots...

Assuming they've done their homework, they should have an idea of what direction each team in front of them is leaning... if Reddick lasts to 24 or so - a 4th should do it; or a 4th and move down in another round.

A 3rd would be a lot to give up... and while we have a lot of holes and depth problems, drafting one difference maker on defense would go a long way.

I've seen Reddick mocked at 26 - seen him mocked as high as the top 10. Crazy draft for predicting where guys are slotted.

[Maxie the Taxi]

What is everyone's take on Kpassognon??

Despite being "high cut" - a trait I tend not to like - I think he is athletic enough to make an impact.Dominant player on film, but who does he play against? I'd be impressed if he played in the SEC or Big Ten. Villanova plays bunnies.

[wist43]

Dominant player on film, but who does he play against? I'd be impressed if he played in the SEC or Big Ten. Villanova plays bunnies.

Of course you have to factor thru the level of competition... you have to evaluate him solely on what you think he can be.

Seems to be a good kid... my guess is he goes in the 2nd or 3rd round.


BTW - Howie Long played at Villanova.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Of course you have to factor thru the level of competition... you have to evaluate him solely on what you think he can be.

Seems to be a good kid... my guess is he goes in the 2nd or 3rd round.


BTW - Howie Long played at Villanova.Obviously, I could be wrong, but I think spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on him would be a huge gamble. I wouldn't do it. I doubt Ted would.

[pbmax]

If his head is as big as Howie Long's, then I would risk it.

[wist43]

A potential sleeper I stumbled upon at LB (I would argue ILB) is Javancy Jones, Jackson State.

[RashanGary]

Tyus bowser looks good off the edge.

[gbgary]

Do you think Peppers will last until #29?

no.

[pbmax]

Put Mike Tanier down as a counter about Teez Tabor's first round prospects. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702114-2017-nfl-draft-predicting-this-years-draft-day-slides


Repeat after me: Teams do not draft slow cornerbacks.

But Teez Tabor succeeded against the highest-level competition outside the NFL. That should translate...

Teams do not draft slow cornerbacks.

You need to watch some tape. You'll see he can...

Teams do not draft slow cornerbacks.

You are putting way too much stock in workout results and not enough stock in...

TEAMS DO NOT DRAFT SLOW CORNERBACKS (sky darkens, thunder rumbles in distance).

Tabor ran a 4.62 40 at the combine and was clocked anywhere between 4.75 seconds and "he's still running" at Florida's pro day. Most teams have a minimum speed threshold for draftable cornerbacks, and that threshold hovers around 4.6 seconds. Any slower than that, and the cornerback is too great a liability in man coverage against too high a percentage of NFL receivers to be anything but a nickel and dime role player.

Tabor's size, instincts and other qualities will get him drafted by the middle of Day 2, when teams can start shopping for matchup players or high-upside projects. But Tabor looked like a potential top-15 pick before anyone saw him run. No amount of finger-crossing, video editing or excuse mongering will keep him there

[Maxie the Taxi]

Razul Douglas ran a 4.59 at the Combine.

[gbgary]

a mock on nfl network just had us picking mixon. (bucky brooks)

[Joemailman]

a mock on nfl network just had us picking mixon. (bucky brooks)

That comforts me because I think Bucky Brooks is a terrible analyst. I don't think we'll ever see TT use a 1st round pick on a RB, especially one with Mixon's red flag.

[pbmax]

Razul Douglas ran a 4.59 at the Combine.

Wasn't he in Batman Begins?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Wasn't he in Batman Begins?A distant cousin maybe.

[pbmax]

I like this scout. He calls teams idiots (possibly including the Packers) rather than the kids in the draft.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702751-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-scouts-take-on-latest-nfl-draft-buzz

[Maxie the Taxi]

I've been fooling with the draft simulator for a couple of years now and I agree with the scout that this draft is "top heavy." After the 2nd or 3rd round it's slim pickings. I wouldn't be surprised if TT traded up for a guy they really value/need.

[texaspackerbacker]

That and the fact that we need a little bit of Quality rather than a lot of quantity.

[pbmax]

Silverstein:

Fresno St. H-back Aaron Peck, 6-3, 235, 4.63, 37 VJ, 22 bench, among #Packers' draft visits. Stats: 46-630-3 in '16. Missed '15 w/foot inj.

[texaspackerbacker]

WHY would the Packers have any interest at all in yet another TE or FB?

[pbmax]

WHY would the Packers have any interest at all in yet another TE or FB?

They only have 4 on the roster. They have carried five before.

This is more plausible than the RB has a huge hole argument.

[wist43]

That and the fact that we need a little bit of Quality rather than a lot of quantity.

TT is all about quantity over quality.

[Smidgeon]

TT is all about quantity over quality.

You really think that if TT had a choice between LT and three Datone Joneses, he'd pick the three Datone Joneses? The truth is that no one knows who the next LT or Ray Lewis is. The more picks in the draft you get, the more likely it is to hit on someone, especially when the "surefire" players have all been taken already (Top 10ish).

I'm sure there's data out there (that I would love to have) that has the possibility of drafting a star attached to each draft slot. I'd love to take that data up against a trade chart and see if moving up 10 spots in the draft adds as much potential quality as losing next year's number 1 draft pick would lose. My gut tells me the losses outweigh the gains unless you're starting from the middle of the pack and moving into the Top 10. Starting at the bottom of the round, you have to pray that you're lucky.

TT has only had a few mid or top of the round picks:
2006: AJ Hawk (#5). Reliable starter, eminently replaceable (but wasn't) in a draft that was overall just terrible.
2007: Justin Harrell (#16). A miss. Injuries killed his career. I don't like calling injured players busts as I reserve that for the Ahmad Carrolls of the NFL, but you can if you want
2009: BJ Raji (#9). Flashed very brightly in 2010 helping lead to a Super Bowl. I don't know how I'd rank him otherwise, but I'd trade the #9 pick in the draft for that kind of performance in a Super Bowl winning year.

Those are the only times TT picked within the Top 20. After Rodgers first starting season, he hasn't picked inside the 20s (barring a trade up, this will be the eighth year in a row). Restocking and finding quality is tough when two thirds of the league has picked their favorites before you get a chance.

Here are the rest of TT's first round picks in draft order:
21 (2014): HHCD - appears to be long term starter and a good player
23 (2010): Bulaga - long term starter and a good player
26 (2009): Matthews - the second first round pick that year, and someone who had several great seasons to start his career but has tapered off due to injuries; still a good player
27 (2016): Clark - too early to tell, but he flashed in the playoffs against a good Dallas O-line
28 (2012): Perry - not a flashy pass rusher, but a very good run defender, and some argue more important to the D than Matthews because of that
30 (2015): Randall - a terrible sophomore campaign that followed a very promising rookie campaign--he's got one more year to turn it around before we Casey Hayward him.
30 (2008): Traded into second round for Jordy Nelson
32 (2011): Sherrod - along with Harrell, the only (so far--Randall, I'm watching you) outright miss by TT in the first round, but again, due to injuries; as I recall though, many people hated the Harrell pick but loved the Sherrod pick at the time. Both failed for the same three reasons: injuries, injuries, injuries.

Anyway, with only 2 out of 12 (maybe 3 depending on how Randall rebounds) first round picks outright failing to deliver value for the Packers, I'd say he's done a pretty good job picking through the leftovers at the end of the round.

If Clark doesn't turn into something special though, I would think we're due for another star in this draft. It's random and completely unpredictable, but we haven't gotten a bonafide star for a while.

P.S. Sorry for the text wall. Just had my second cup of coffee.

[BZnDallas]

Great post Smidgeon! For some on this site, if you're not Ditka going after Ricky Williams then you aren't doing enough. Just is what it is I guess. I do appreciate the distraction during the off season though.

[hoosier]

Silverstein:

Fresno St. H-back Aaron Peck, 6-3, 235, 4.63, 37 VJ, 22 bench, among #Packers' draft visits. Stats: 46-630-3 in '16. Missed '15 w/foot inj.

Aren't most of their visits guys who aren't expected to be drafted and who might get signed to PS? If I had to guess I would say this is about filling the 90 man roster and potential practice squad material.

[pbmax]

You really think that if TT had a choice between LT and three Datone Joneses, he'd pick the three Datone Joneses? The truth is that no one knows who the next LT or Ray Lewis is. The more picks in the draft you get, the more likely it is to hit on someone, especially when the "surefire" players have all been taken already (Top 10ish).

I'm sure there's data out there (that I would love to have) that has the possibility of drafting a star attached to each draft slot. I'd love to take that data up against a trade chart and see if moving up 10 spots in the draft adds as much potential quality as losing next year's number 1 draft pick would lose. My gut tells me the losses outweigh the gains unless you're starting from the middle of the pack and moving into the Top 10. Starting at the bottom of the round, you have to pray that you're lucky.

Here you go: http://www.nber.org/papers/w11270.pdf (Cade Massey, Richard H. Thaler)

NFL teams (and it goes without saying, message board commenters) are over-confident about their ability to succeed with higher draft picks (the "right to choose"). They incorrectly ignore or underestimate the unknown variables and the resulting inability to make correct picks above 50% of the time. Therefore they eschew the obvious mitigation strategy of acquiring more picks.

[pbmax]

Dougherty piece on Watt: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/04/12/dougherty-watt-electric-option-packers/100376830/


For the record, both scouts have early second-round grades on Watt. But that doesn’t exclude him as a possible late first-round pick even in their minds.


According to MockDraftable’s data that goes back to the 1999 combine, Watt’s 40 time (4.69 seconds) was only a little above average for an outside linebacker and his bench press (21 reps) was slightly below average. But his other tests for athleticism stood out: His three-cone drill (6.79 seconds) was in the 90th percentile, short shuttle (4.13 seconds) 84th percentile, broad jump (128 inches) 95th percentile and vertical jump (37 inches) 82nd percentile.

He also has good length (6-feet-4½, 93rd percentile) and weight (252 pounds, 89th percentile).


Anyone have a first 10 yards number for Watt from his 40?


One of the scouts ranked them as 3-4 prospects, in order, Harris, Watt, Bowser, Lawson.

“I think Watt will be good,” one of the scouts said. “I don’t know how great he’ll be.”

The other scout predicted Harris will be better than Watt as a rookie, but he sees more long term in Watt.

[bobblehead]

Dougherty piece on Watt: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/04/12/dougherty-watt-electric-option-packers/100376830/






Anyone have a first 10 yards number for Watt from his 40?

Yea, with watt you have to factor in a few things. One, I don't value 40 time for LBs much. Short shuttle and 3 cone mean more. 2, He is a big LB so factor that in. He doesn't rely on pure speed, but length and size as well. 3, His pedigree is fantastic.

I expect he will be gone when we pick. I hope not. I have seen a recent espn mock with the pack taking Mixon in the first. I have been on the Mixon bandwagon, but if we take him in the first he better be Ladanian Tomlinson Jr.

[Pugger]

Smidgeon has a point. Because of our success we end up drafting at the end of every round unless we move up like we did last year for Spriggs. Especially in the first round by the time our turn comes up most of the really good ones are long gone so you gotta get lucky and not have your first round picks bomb because of injuries. This might be the year when Ted does go for quality rather than quantity so perhaps he'll move up? None of us dreamt he would be as active - for him - in FA this year either.

[wist43]

You really think that if TT had a choice between LT and three Datone Joneses, he'd pick the three Datone Joneses? The truth is that no one knows who the next LT or Ray Lewis is. The more picks in the draft you get, the more likely it is to hit on someone, especially when the "surefire" players have all been taken already (Top 10ish).

I'm sure there's data out there (that I would love to have) that has the possibility of drafting a star attached to each draft slot. I'd love to take that data up against a trade chart and see if moving up 10 spots in the draft adds as much potential quality as losing next year's number 1 draft pick would lose. My gut tells me the losses outweigh the gains unless you're starting from the middle of the pack and moving into the Top 10. Starting at the bottom of the round, you have to pray that you're lucky.

TT has only had a few mid or top of the round picks:
2006: AJ Hawk (#5). Reliable starter, eminently replaceable (but wasn't) in a draft that was overall just terrible.
2007: Justin Harrell (#16). A miss. Injuries killed his career. I don't like calling injured players busts as I reserve that for the Ahmad Carrolls of the NFL, but you can if you want
2009: BJ Raji (#9). Flashed very brightly in 2010 helping lead to a Super Bowl. I don't know how I'd rank him otherwise, but I'd trade the #9 pick in the draft for that kind of performance in a Super Bowl winning year.

Those are the only times TT picked within the Top 20. After Rodgers first starting season, he hasn't picked inside the 20s (barring a trade up, this will be the eighth year in a row). Restocking and finding quality is tough when two thirds of the league has picked their favorites before you get a chance.

Here are the rest of TT's first round picks in draft order:
21 (2014): HHCD - appears to be long term starter and a good player
23 (2010): Bulaga - long term starter and a good player
26 (2009): Matthews - the second first round pick that year, and someone who had several great seasons to start his career but has tapered off due to injuries; still a good player
27 (2016): Clark - too early to tell, but he flashed in the playoffs against a good Dallas O-line
28 (2012): Perry - not a flashy pass rusher, but a very good run defender, and some argue more important to the D than Matthews because of that
30 (2015): Randall - a terrible sophomore campaign that followed a very promising rookie campaign--he's got one more year to turn it around before we Casey Hayward him.
30 (2008): Traded into second round for Jordy Nelson
32 (2011): Sherrod - along with Harrell, the only (so far--Randall, I'm watching you) outright miss by TT in the first round, but again, due to injuries; as I recall though, many people hated the Harrell pick but loved the Sherrod pick at the time. Both failed for the same three reasons: injuries, injuries, injuries.

Anyway, with only 2 out of 12 (maybe 3 depending on how Randall rebounds) first round picks outright failing to deliver value for the Packers, I'd say he's done a pretty good job picking through the leftovers at the end of the round.

If Clark doesn't turn into something special though, I would think we're due for another star in this draft. It's random and completely unpredictable, but we haven't gotten a bonafide star for a while.

P.S. Sorry for the text wall. Just had my second cup of coffee.

The argument against staying put and simply drafting what falls to you is that you are not going to come away with impact players.

We have baskets full of young developmental guys, and scant few difference makers. Were it not for 1 pick (Rodgers) TT likely would have been fired by now.

That said, the biggest problem this team has is the problem it always has - defense. The fact is - TT and the Packers as an organization are not good at evaluating, drafting, and developing defensive players. Currently, and for too many years running now, a lot of this blame rests with dunderdummy - but then since TT refuses to fire the idiot, it has to come back to Ted.

Sans Matthews, none of the players you've cited is an impact player... and Matthews is past his prime.

I expect nothing to change, and I fully expect another playoff berth, followed by a defensive meltdown resulting in another playoff exit.

Rinse. Repeat.

[wist43]

How does this sound for the first 4 picks...

1. Fire Capers - instant improvement!!

1. Tim Williams, LB, Alabama (Don't think he'll be there, but if he falls enough - trade up to get him maybe)

2. Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma

3a. Obi Melifonwu, S/LB, Connecticut

3b. Demontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State

[pbmax]

Dougherty on Jabril Peppers best position from scouts:

1 at RB
1 at LB
1 at safety
1 at CB

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/04/13/dougherty-no-place-jabrill-peppers-packers/100420434/


“This guy’s not a great football player. When you play him you’re going to find out there are things you can’t do with him. There are more things you can’t do with him than you can do with him. The one trait that’s best of his, when you put the football in his hands he has a feel how to run. I think he can be a hell of a running back.”


“From there, figure out if (Peppers) is better off playing in the box like a linebacker,” the scout said, “or can you give him more stuff in space like a strong safety?”


“(Peppers) likes to be in the traffic, he likes to be in the mix of things,” the scout said. “I think he’s more of a box safety, and if you don’t play that scheme, I really believe it’s a wasted pick.”


“Polamalu could tackle,” one said. “You put him near the line of scrimmage he was going to avoid (blockers) and he was going to find a way to the ball. I don’t think this guy has that. Woodson, even as a corner he was a fierce tackler, a wrap-up-get-guys-on-the-ground player. Ball hawk. Always around (the ball). Skill. Not even the same guy. People will compare Woodson to Peppers, and it’s not even fair.”

Said another scout: “(Peppers) has got the full speed; if you’re going to run him in a 40 he’s got that. He doesn’t have that burst, acceleration, change-of-direction to play nickel for me. He’s not Charles Woodson. Charles is so much smoother. Same with Polamalu. … . I think this guy is strictly a safety.”

[SMBASS]

I'm in the camp of hoping we don't draft Peppers. I've never been sold on him for a variety of reasons.

[wist43]

I'm hoping for Melifonwu S/LB, 6'4", 219 lbs... not sure he'll be there at our 3rd pick.

The 4 guys I listed above would fill holes and make us immediately better... not sure if any of them would be there at those picks, but I'd move around to get them. If we came away with those 4 guys and nothing else - load up on undrafted FA,s - I'd call that a successful draft.

[BZnDallas]

I'm hoping for Melifonwu S/LB, 6'4", 219 lbs... not sure he'll be there at our 3rd pick.

The 4 guys I listed above would fill holes and make us immediately better... not sure if any of them would be there at those picks, but I'd move around to get them. If we came away with those 4 guys and nothing else - load up on undrafted FA,s - I'd call that a successful draft.

Just have to hope the teams in front of us take QBs, RBs and more Offense. Keep dropping that defensive talent down. Not really sure where Tim Williams will end up. I think you could probably switch your Perine and Obi picks. Obi in 2nd and Perine in 3rd. Doubt either will fall that far. Don't know much about your 3b guy. Maybe he'll be it. I'd be OK with any or all of the other 3.

[RashanGary]

I'm hoping for Melifonwu S/LB, 6'4", 219 lbs... not sure he'll be there at our 3rd pick.

The 4 guys I listed above would fill holes and make us immediately better... not sure if any of them would be there at those picks, but I'd move around to get them. If we came away with those 4 guys and nothing else - load up on undrafted FA,s - I'd call that a successful draft.

I like that you're an independent thinker with unique perspectives. But don't fall into the trap of thinking these couple guys are the good ones. So much uncertainty. I'll bet you end up with either 1 or two at the most decent players in that group. That's how much of a crapshoot the draft is. So I think this would go very badly because you just never know how a guy will play in the more complex, faster, and physical NFL.

[Fritz]

I'm in the camp of hoping we don't draft Peppers. I've never been sold on him for a variety of reasons.

As a U of M alum (not really a fan of the team any more), I can tell you I think the guy is way, way overhyped. They kept saying he was a game changer. I never saw it.

Hope the Pack avoids him.

[wist43]

I like that you're an independent thinker with unique perspectives. But don't fall into the trap of thinking these couple guys are the good ones. So much uncertainty. I'll bet you end up with either 1 or two at the most decent players in that group. That's how much of a crapshoot the draft is. So I think this would go very badly because you just never know how a guy will play in the more complex, faster, and physical NFL.

As I've said in the past, the one thing we can't do that GM's and coaches can, is sit down with these kids and look em in the eye. Talk to their college coaches, look into their background, posse problems, etc...

If any of those guys I've listed is knucklehead?? I haven't heard anything about it. So, if their character and background check out, based on what is on tape?? and their obvious potential?? I'd take those 4 guys in heartbeat over the "basket of bodies" approach that TT will surely throw at us again.

We're long since past the point of needing to flesh out the mid-to-bottom 1/3 of roster, we need to fill starting lineup holes with difference makers.

[RashanGary]

The NFL game is very different than college. Clay Matthews was the 3rd best lb on his college team and the best of the three in the NFL. That's just how uncertain things are.

[Fritz]

As I've said in the past, the one thing we can't do that GM's and coaches can, is sit down with these kids and look em in the eye. Talk to their college coaches, look into their background, posse problems, etc...

If any of those guys I've listed is knucklehead?? I haven't heard anything about it. So, if their character and background check out, based on what is on tape?? and their obvious potential?? I'd take those 4 guys in heartbeat over the "basket of bodies" approach that TT will surely throw at us again.

We're long since past the point of needing to flesh out the mid-to-bottom 1/3 of roster, we need to fill starting lineup holes with difference makers.

Wist, you and I have our differences, and they are huge, but in the above, which I've bolded, we agree. I am so, so tired of this Packer defense looking like a helpless puppy while offenses have their way over and over and over. Unlike you, I don't think it's Capers - the guy calls a defense, but his cornerbacks - the number one and two picks of a draft two years ago - are trailing seven yards behind their wide receivers while the QB stands in the pocket and the pass rushers get swallowed up like marshmallow puffs.

That shit has gotten very, very old. So, you're right: this defense needs some playmakers, not solid pros.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Packers D would be MUCH worse without Capers and his schemes compensating for that lack of difference makers. I must have said that a dozen times. It would sure be nice to see what his scheming would yield if we did get a difference maker or two or three.

[Fritz]

As I said in my post above, Tex, I agree with you. I don't think it's Capers's fault that his players can't cover or get to the passer. I don't think it's a scheme problem.

[pbmax]

As I said in my post above, Tex, I agree with you. I don't think it's Capers's fault that his players can't cover or get to the passer. I don't think it's a scheme problem.

Who called a Cover 0 blitz on 3rd and long (might have been 2nd and long) in OT versus the Seahawks that allowed a long Seattle TD to win the game with no safety deep (NFC Championship Game)?

Everyone has their hand in these failures. Neither one is incompetent. Capers and Thompson don't need to be replaced, they need to find a way to work more seamlessly together. Capers has taken WAY too long to adjust to draft and develop rather than hang on to veterans.

Thompson (and also possibly Capers/Whitt) cannot find corners who can play zone reliably.

Roughly, I think that is why the offense tends to start off with a bang and the defense tends to get better recently. Last year was a weird aberration.

[Fritz]

My point would be that it wasn't the call, it was the execution. On a blitz, Wilson shouldn't have time to let his receiver go...and go....and go....and go....

I don't want Thompson replaced; you know that. I want him to get two big playmakers for this defense.

[pbmax]

My point would be that it wasn't the call, it was the execution. On a blitz, Wilson shouldn't have time to let his receiver go...and go....and go....and go....

I don't want Thompson replaced; you know that. I want him to get two big playmakers for this defense.

I know you don't. But sometimes blitzes don't get home and sometimes players don't make the play.

This is the adjustment that he and Thompson must make. Sometime you gotta be able to play coverage and it might be a good idea to mix man and zone. But somehow the Packers just can't manage it.

[Bretsky]

My point would be that it wasn't the call, it was the execution. On a blitz, Wilson shouldn't have time to let his receiver go...and go....and go....and go....

I don't want Thompson replaced; you know that. I want him to get two big playmakers for this defense.

Trade in Gramps for Eliot ! :)

[texaspackerbacker]

As I said in my post above, Tex, I agree with you. I don't think it's Capers's fault that his players can't cover or get to the passer. I don't think it's a scheme problem.

It's not just a matter of No Blame, though. It's the schemes that MAKE the defense right now. Without all that trickery and compensation, we would be a helluva lot worse than we are. As for the times when we get exposed like pbmax mentioned, that's kinda the price you pay - sometimes the other guys outguess you. It's better IMO than playing them straight up and getting beat consistently by teams with better offensive personnel than we have on D.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I shake my head sometimes. I was looking at a mock draft on NFL.com. They had the Packers taking Shaquill Griffin. I see the NFL comparison is Ladarius Gunter. Makes sense, I thought. I looked at Griffin's 40 time... 4.38.

[texaspackerbacker]

If by that, they mean Griffin is instinctive and a good coverage guy, he sounds like a good pick. Gunter a damn decent even being fairly slow, and you take somebody with similar skills and 4.38 speed, and that's one helluva Corner.

[run pMc]

They must be mocking solely off combine results. Despite testing well, Griffin is listed as anywhere from R3 to R6 on most of the other draft sites. Taking him R1 would have a horde of GB fans yelling "reach!" and getting their pitchforks and torches.

[jklowan]

I think I woud be okay with something like this....

29: EDGE T.J. WATT - WISCONSIN
61: CB FABIAN MOREAU - UCLA
93: G DANNY ISIDORA - MIAMI (FLA.)
134: RB SAMAJE PERINE - OKLAHOMA or D'ONTA FOREMAN TEXAS
172: EDGE DAWUANE SMOOT - ILLINOIS
182: DL CHARLES WALKER - OKLAHOMA
212: TE ERIC SAUBERT - DRAKE
247: LB BEN BOULWARE - CLEMSON

[Bretsky]

I think I woud be okay with something like this....

29: EDGE T.J. WATT - WISCONSIN
61: CB FABIAN MOREAU - UCLA
93: G DANNY ISIDORA - MIAMI (FLA.)
134: RB SAMAJE PERINE - OKLAHOMA or D'ONTA FOREMAN TEXAS
172: EDGE DAWUANE SMOOT - ILLINOIS
182: DL CHARLES WALKER - OKLAHOMA
212: TE ERIC SAUBERT - DRAKE
247: LB BEN BOULWARE - CLEMSON



KUDOS !!!! This would be a fabulous draft !!!!!!!

[red]

i really don't like the fact that we've brought in all the top RB prospects

if we draft one in the first 2 or 3 rounds i'm gonna be furious

people keep saying that RB isn't a big hole for the team right now, yet we're taking a nice hard look at all the top ones

if we do draft one early it will be a total fail on TT's part. it will be nothing more then trying to go cheap at a position, when we have tons of free cap space, when we have much greater needs

[smuggler]

Bet we draft two RBs this year. One in the 4th and one in the 6th or 7th

[pbmax]

i really don't like the fact that we've brought in all the top RB prospects

if we draft one in the first 2 or 3 rounds i'm gonna be furious

people keep saying that RB isn't a big hole for the team right now, yet we're taking a nice hard look at all the top ones

if we do draft one early it will be a total fail on TT's part. it will be nothing more then trying to go cheap at a position, when we have tons of free cap space, when we have much greater needs

Who have they brought in beside Mixon?

[red]

Who have they brought in beside Mixon?

don't know, there were 4 or 5 or so rb's that they've talked too, and it might have just been meetings like at the senior bowl or combine

i saw it on walter football, but the site isn't cooperating right now, under the prospect visit tracker

but cook was also one of the names for sure

[red]

i did a reverse seach by prospect

Tarik Cohen, RB, North Carolina A&T, brought him in for a workout
cook, met at the combine
Aaron Jones, RB, Texas-El Paso, met at the combine
mixon, who was a private workout
Joseph Williams, RB, Utah, met him at the shrine game

i guess not a ton, but still, a good chunk of the guys we've met with so far have been RB's

[pbmax]

i did a reverse seach by prospect

Tarik Cohen, RB, North Carolina A&T, brought him in for a workout
cook, met at the combine
Aaron Jones, RB, Texas-El Paso, met at the combine
mixon, who was a private workout
Joseph Williams, RB, Utah, met him at the shrine game

i guess not a ton, but still, a good chunk of the guys we've met with so far have been RB's

OK, but meeting at the Combine and Senior Bowl is par for the course for as many prospects as they fit in. They even meet with players they think will be long gone before their pick. Bringing them to Lambeau usually means something needs to be viewed in person (Mixon's past violence) or a player they are thinking about taking late in draft or UDFA.

[red]

What struck me was the small number of guys they've even met with as a team compared to everyone else

And then to see a large number of those being rbs stood out a bit to me

[pbmax]

What struck me was the small number of guys they've even met with as a team compared to everyone else

And then to see a large number of those being rbs stood out a bit to me

I imagine that the Senior Bowl and Combine meets look exactly like everyone else's.

But they reserve the GB visits for the back end of the draft. There is just not as much coverage.

You aren't going to see this Tweet about the Packers having a Guard from Wyoming in for a visit.

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 41s42 seconds ago
If this is an indication of his draft stock… #Temple LB/edge player Hassan Reddick is visiting the #Jaguars today, source said. They pick 4.

[pbmax]

Here is my own and only draft prediction so far, Packers won't take an O lineman before the 3rd round.

[Zool]

Here is my own and only draft prediction so far, Packers won't take an O lineman before the 3rd round.

My prediction stands. 4th round college tackle who projects to NFL guard. Josh Sitton-esque

[red]

My prediction stands. 4th round college tackle who projects to NFL guard. Josh Sitton-esque

you just summed up every o-lineman TT ever drafted

[Zool]

you just summed up every o-lineman TT ever drafted

Every good one at least. (Except Beluga)

[red]

I imagine that the Senior Bowl and Combine meets look exactly like everyone else's.

But they reserve the GB visits for the back end of the draft. There is just not as much coverage.

You aren't going to see this Tweet about the Packers having a Guard from Wyoming in for a visit.

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 41s42 seconds ago
If this is an indication of his draft stock… #Temple LB/edge player Hassan Reddick is visiting the #Jaguars today, source said. They pick 4.

the page seems to be working again

http://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam

as you can see, we've met with 22 guys, 5 of those are RB 's

for comparison sake, houston has met with over 50 guy, the lions have met with 107, new england met with 44

so it looks like TT is fully locked away in his draft bunker that he's probably been in since may of last year, watching his tapes

[pbmax]

the page seems to be working again

http://walterfootball.com/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam

as you can see, we've met with 22 guys, 5 of those are RB 's



But Walter Football doesn't report this by staking out each team. They are relying on press and agent reports. The Packers aren't advertising anything. Additionally,


The NFL has strict rules for these visits. Each team can bring no more than 30 players to its facility, and no on-field testing or timing is allowed, only blackboard work or written tests.

So you are telling me that the Packers not only did not fill their allotment at the Senior Bowl or Combine, but they haven't even sent invitations to 30 players for visits?

That does against all previous history about Ted at both the Senior Bowl, the Combine and the pre-draft visits. These lists are incomplete.

[red]

actually, i think most of the reporting comes from the players, not the team

and yeah, it almost seems like in this situation TT isn't doing everything he can/could. not unlike team building where he usually neglects certain aspects available to him

[pbmax]

actually, i think most of the reporting comes from the players, not the team

and yeah, it almost seems like in this situation TT isn't doing everything he can/could. not unlike team building where he usually neglects certain aspects available to him

So you actually believe that the Lions, a franchise that has not been able to tie its shoes before heading out to play a game, has seen four times the number of players in the offseason as the Packers?

[red]

i do

so you think we're the only team in the nfl that announces some, but not all of the players we see?

[pbmax]

So you actually believe that the Lions, a franchise that has not been able to tie its shoes before heading out to play a game, has seen four times the number of players in the offseason as the Packers?

They track Pro Day workouts as meetings. Do you think that Ted himself hasn't seen more than 22 players at those?

He was at the Badgers pro day. There were 12 Badgers working out then plus some state players. One of them is listed as Combine visit (TJ Watt).

[red]

no, they count meeting a player in private at their pro day as a meeting

he might have watched those 12 guys at the badgers pro day, but it looks like he slinked out of there right after the workout without talking to anyone

which makes sence because he's not even close to being a people person

[BZnDallas]

i do

so you think we're the only team in the nfl that announces some, but not all of the players we see?

I think you might be over reacting just a lil bit here Red. I think TT lacks in some areas as well. But for a D&D team to not do their homework on incoming talent across the board is most likely wrong. I saw zero local visits on that Walter list. I believe I heard on Dallas radio that teams are allowed unlimited amounts of local visits. To assume TT has ZERO? Hahaha c'mon man, just bc charlie casserly doesn't know it, doesn't mean the visits didn't happen.

[pbmax]

i do

so you think we're the only team in the nfl that announces some, but not all of the players we see?

Given the way Ted operates, I would bet that is the case. Or that they release the list at the last possible moment.

[pbmax]

no, they count meeting a player in private at their pro day as a meeting

he might have watched those 12 guys at the badgers pro day, but it looks like he slinked out of there right after the workout without talking to anyone

which makes sence because he's not even close to being a people person

That isn't what the key says. Its says "PRO - Pro Day or campus meeting/workout."

If it was meeting only, then it wouldn't say meeting/workout. Or if a meeting was a must regardless, it would say Meeting AND workout.

[wist43]

I think you guys are nuts to think dunderdummy is doing a good job... the results and statistics simply do not validate your support for him.

It is obvious he and TT are not on the same page in the least - and since both are still in their long-standing positions, and that is not likely to change until we fans are long since in the grave... why would any of you expect anything to change??

We've been hashing this out for years, and for years we've been watching the same movie in reruns - yet you guys keep hangin in there. I'll give you credit for loyalty, but loyalty isn't winning us championships.

----------------------------------------------------------------

As for the draft...

This is as wide open a draft as I can ever remember. Some of the sites I was looking at had Melifonwu going in the 3rd-4th round, now I see him being mocked in the 1st. Figures - all the guys I want are steadily being moved up the boards - and we either won't have a shot at them, or TT will spit on them anyway.

A lot of the corners I've been looking at seem to be carbon copies of Randall and Rollins. I think Rollins would be the better player in the right system, but Capers isn't capable of coaching or calling anything but man-to-man.

Which makes players like Reddick and Melifonwu completely useless to us. Capers refusal to play zone, and his refusal to adjust his scheme and playcalling to the strengths of the players takes a lot of very good players off our board. If TT goes ahead and drafts them - dunderdummy will stubbornly misuse them.

Still, as a fan I have to hope that he'll get his head out of his ass and that TT and Packers scouting dept will suddenly get things figured out on the defensive side of the ball. Unfortunately, there's next to no chance of that happening.

[pbmax]

Any idea if this reporting is at all accurate? Lions w/ 107 offseason player visits versus Packers 22.

Packer Report‏ @PackerReport
not entirely. Each team has a thing for local athletes. Obviously more prospects from Detroit area than here.

Packer Report‏ @PackerReport
I think Lions announce all visits. GB top secret. Up to us to find out what we can. That's a huge difference.