2022 NFL Draft Talk

[Bretsky]

Aaron Wilson
@AaronWilson_NFL

Wisconsin safety Scott Nelson, who ran 4.38 at Wisconsin Pro Day and vertical 39.5 inches is working out today for Green Bay Packers and is regarded as a rising draft prospect, according to league source.




THIS IS INTERESTING; I kind of compared him to a Jimmy Leonard type of player. Didn't think he was that fast though as he tested. I thought he'd be a 7th rounder or undrafted FA

[Bretsky]

I only watched about three Michigan games this year; Braxton Hill did not particularly stand out to me. One player who did, that I've read nothing about, is Josh Ross. He was always making plays, it seemed. Does anybody have any idea if he's got any NFL potential? I don't keep up these days so much.


A few years ago I embraced your Professional Michigan Wolverine Scouting Expertise :))))

[RashanGary]

THIS IS INTERESTING; I kind of compared him to a Jimmy Leonard type of player. Didn't think he was that fast though as he tested. I thought he'd be a 7th rounder or undrafted FA

So he was a good player but you figured he would slip because of athletic limitations??

[RashanGary]

The Packers were notorious under Ted Thompson of sticking to their board and not drafting for need. Packer fans everywhere would cuss and throw cheeseheads at their TVs when Thompson would take some no name DT instead of the player we all wanted and needed.

Gute has a real chance to piss fans off in a similar way in three weeks. I am not even sold that we are taking a WR with the first 4 picks.

[ThunderDan]

If either of the Georgia DL are available we better not draft WR.

[Joemailman]

If either of the Georgia DL are available we better not draft WR.

Or...what exactly?

[ThunderDan]

Or...what exactly?

I will be disappointed.

[Bretsky]

So he was a good player but you figured he would slip because of athletic limitations??

Yes he was a really good player for the UW and I didn't take him serious as an NFL player because I thought he was limited as an athlete

[Bretsky]

The Packers were notorious under Ted Thompson of sticking to their board and not drafting for need. Packer fans everywhere would cuss and throw cheeseheads at their TVs when Thompson would take some no name DT instead of the player we all wanted and needed.

Gute has a real chance to piss fans off in a similar way in three weeks. I am not even sold that we are taking a WR with the first 4 picks.


I think you think more highly of TT than I do. I think he was good though

[Bretsky]

If either of the Georgia DL are available we better not draft WR.

Some teams may have removed one from their board due to character concerns.

There was once an incredibly elite gifted smash mouth LB from I think Georgia I wanted GB to draft. But I think GB had removed him from their board. I didn't know about the bad person part

[HarveyWallbangers]

Some teams may have removed one from their board due to character concerns.

There was once an incredibly elite gifted smash mouth LB from I think Georgia I wanted GB to draft. But I think GB had removed him from their board. I didn't know about the bad person part

Odell Thurman?

[Bretsky]

YUP

[wthigoot]

Odell Thurman?

Thompson wasted that pick on Aaron Rodgers instead of taking Thurman.
Then he wasted the second rounder on Nick Collins instead of taking Ernest Shazor.

[Bretsky]

Thompson wasted that pick on Aaron Rodgers instead of taking Thurman.
Then he wasted the second rounder on Nick Collins instead of taking Ernest Shazor.


Don't think Thurman and Rodgers were in the same draft; who is Ernest Shazor ? lol

[wthigoot]

Don't think Thurman and Rodgers were in the same draft; who is Ernest Shazor ? lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_Draft
Rodgers @ 24, Thurman @ 48

Collins was initially rated as a 6th to UDFA, became a fast riser
Shazor was initially rated 2nd round, fell all the way through the draft to UDFA

Shazor (S, Michigan) was a favorite for some in mock drafts - there was some disbelief when he kept sliding

[Joemailman]

Don't think Thurman and Rodgers were in the same draft; who is Ernest Shazor ? lol It was the same draft.

Bengals took Thurman at 48 and Packers took Nick Collins at 51. Shazor went undrafted.

[run pMc]

Packers hosted Baylor WR Tyquan Thornton on a visit. 6-2, 181 lbs. Had the fastest 40 at the combine at 4.28. Had a big year in 2021 with 60 receptions and 10 TD's. Projected 4th round pick.

MVS replacement. Not sure if he can play ST though.

They also hosted Velus Jones, who is older and also a burner (4.31 40).
Really good KR/PR in the SEC, and seems like a YAC/ST guy you can pick up on Day 3. I don't think he has a lot more upside or that he'd be more than a WR3 or 4, but you could have him run 9 routes and those stupid bubble screens I guess.

They are going to need a lot of their Day 3 picks to be able to play ST... I'm pretty sure Biyatchia is gonna be in Gute and MLF's ear about that.

[run pMc]

How do folks feel about Boye Mafe? His comp is Rashan Gary.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/boye-mafe/32004d41-4641-5291-9981-cb7520c897a8

Tested really well. Might be a late bloomer, might never become anything -- he'll turn 24 in November.
I think Gute likes younger players since they generally have longer careers and in theory more upside yet to reach with coaching. I've seen him mocked to GB at 28 and I'm not sure I like him there.

[run pMc]

If either of the Georgia DL are available we better not draft WR.

I am not a scout, and I wouldn't say DL lineplay is my forte, but I do like Devonte Wyatt in R1 for GB if he's there. I think pairing him with Kenny Clark could be dynamite, especially with a rotation of KC, Lowry, Reed, and Slaton. Lowry and Reed are likely gone after this year, so they could find themselves light on DL depth, plus their run defense was not good last year. Go watch the Cleveland game last season if you disagree.

[Joemailman]

Tested really well. Might be a late bloomer, might never become anything -- he'll turn 24 in November.
I think Gute likes younger players since they generally have longer careers and in theory more upside yet to reach with coaching. I've seen him mocked to GB at 28 and I'm not sure I like him there.

There seems to be a large variance on where Mafe will be drafted. Maybe because of the age. I've seen him mocked to he Packers in 1st and 2nd rounds.

[run pMc]

I genuinely do not understand what the Eagles is doin'. Am I wrong to think they lost big time on that trade on paper?

I like what they did. They still have 2 R1 picks this year, now they have 2 next year and an extra R2 after that. This is the year where they find out if Jalen Hurts can progress into a QB worth keeping, if not they have ammo to draft one in what should be a better class next year.

[RashanGary]

Jahan Dotson is smart, savvy, fast, but smallish. Rodgers likes to play with smart receivers. Maybe he is our guy.

[Spaulding]

Not a fan of Mafe, for some reason his profile screams Marcus Davenport to me (where I'm still thankful we traded down and got Jaire instead that year). Not that we need another slot receiver but was listening to SiriusXM and heard the interview of Josh Johnson of Tulsa (WR) and was extremely impressed. Re-watched his play against Ohio State and came away even more impressed. Would love to see a day 3 flier on him.

[Upnorth]

I like what they did. They still have 2 R1 picks this year, now they have 2 next year and an extra R2 after that. This is the year where they find out if Jalen Hurts can progress into a QB worth keeping, if not they have ammo to draft one in what should be a better class next year.

Could not agree more. Since they claim this draft is deep at wr and edge I still thinknwe should trade our 1st for a 2nd and next years 1st to a team that looks to be trending down. Then keep trading that 1st for a next year 1st and a current year 2nd. The more pics you get the higher the chance of sucess.

[RashanGary]

Could not agree more. Since they claim this draft is deep at wr and edge I still thinknwe should trade our 1st for a 2nd and next years 1st to a team that looks to be trending down. Then keep trading that 1st for a next year 1st and a current year 2nd. The more pics you get the higher the chance of sucess.

It is not a bad idea. Or trade like this until you luck into the guy you really want to draft. Then pull that trigger. But yeah, theoretically you can get two second round picks every year by doing this.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Watching the DL now, and it's not a good year for DL. This year reminds me of the 2020 group. A couple of studs at the top (Derrick Brown, Javon Kinlaw) and then a group that performed well at the Senior Bowl, tested okay, and were overdrafted (Ross Blacklock, Justin Madubuike, and Neville Gallimore).

I really want Travis Jones at #28. I think Jones is probably #2 on the Packers board--with the character concerns for Devonte Wyatt. I'm not overly impressed with DeMarvin Leal, Perrion Winfrey, and Phidarian Mathis--the next group of guys after Jordan Davis, Wyatt, and Jones. Logan Hall has potential as a 3-4 DE, but he would need to add some bulk.

[Joemailman]

Watching the DL now, and it's not a good year for DL. This year reminds me of the 2020 group. A couple of studs at the top (Derrick Brown, Javon Kinlaw) and then a group that performed well at the Senior Bowl, tested okay, and were overdrafted (Ross Blacklock, Justin Madubuike, and Neville Gallimore).

I really want Travis Jones at #28. I think Jones is probably #2 on the Packers board--with the character concerns for Devonte Wyatt. I'm not overly impressed with DeMarvin Leal, Perrion Winfrey, and Phidarian Mathis--the next group of guys after Jordan Davis, Wyatt, and Jones. Logan Hall has potential as a 3-4 DE, but he would need to add some bulk.

If they draft Hall, do you think they see him as an Edge, or does he bulk up and eventually replace Lowry?

[RashanGary]

Watching the DL now, and it's not a good year for DL. This year reminds me of the 2020 group. A couple of studs at the top (Derrick Brown, Javon Kinlaw) and then a group that performed well at the Senior Bowl, tested okay, and were overdrafted (Ross Blacklock, Justin Madubuike, and Neville Gallimore).

I really want Travis Jones at #28. I think Jones is probably #2 on the Packers board--with the character concerns for Devonte Wyatt. I'm not overly impressed with DeMarvin Leal, Perrion Winfrey, and Phidarian Mathis--the next group of guys after Jordan Davis, Wyatt, and Jones. Logan Hall has potential as a 3-4 DE, but he would need to add some bulk.

I cant find any full game tapes of Travis Jones. A couple years ago I watched a couple full games of Jeffrey Simmons. He didnt just flash, he was constantly getting under guys and getting push back. It was consistent.

How can you judge Jones?? Highlights??

[RashanGary]

If there is a DL, a guy you think can be like Kenny Clark, its a huge advantage to draft him. When we had Mike Daniels in his prime it was Daniels and no one. Now we have Clark and no one. It would be nice to be one of the teams with a couple studs up front.

[Bretsky]

I am having a hard time viewing Penn State WR Johann Dotson as a first round draft pick. AGREE or DISAGREE ?

Lots of mocks are sending him to GB at 22. I don't see it (which probably means he's our pick).

I continue to hope for one of the big 5 WR's to us (Burks, Olave,Wilson,Williams, or London). To me those guys are very clear 1st round draft picks and I'd be elated with any one of them. Now if we pick Williams, then we need to go with another high WR but I'd try to argue we should get two anyways :))

Anybody want to argue anybody else is a clear 1st rounder ? Anybody love Dotson in round one or anybody else ?

i think one of those 5 will be there at 22 but not sure about 28. NOW, if we go defense at pick 22 and those five get snapped up, I am ALL ABOUT trading down six to ten picks and looking at guys like Sky Moore or Christian Watson in round 2. Really like Sky Moore. Love Watson't upside but I don't want to bank on him being an instant polished player (I think Moore and others may be)

[Bretsky]

SIDENOTE; Bucky Brooks just mocked Christian Watson to Green Bay on pick 28 :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

I am having a hard time viewing Penn State WR Johann Dotson as a first round draft pick. AGREE or DISAGREE ?

Lots of mocks are sending him to GB at 22. I don't see it (which probably means he's our pick).

I continue to hope for one of the big 5 WR's to us (Burks, Olave,Wilson,Williams, or London). To me those guys are very clear 1st round draft picks and I'd be elated with any one of them. Now if we pick Williams, then we need to go with another high WR but I'd try to argue we should get two anyways :))

Anybody want to argue anybody else is a clear 1st rounder ? Anybody love Dotson in round one or anybody else ?

i think one of those 5 will be there at 22 but not sure about 28. NOW, if we go defense at pick 22 and those five get snapped up, I am ALL ABOUT trading down six to ten picks and looking at guys like Sky Moore or Christian Watson in round 2. Really like Sky Moore. Love Watson't upside but I don't want to bank on him being an instant polished player (I think Moore and others may be)

Agree. They are about 9-10 WRs that I

[RashanGary]

I think Jahan Dotson is one of the safest WRs in this draft. Maybe hes not a 1,300 yard guy, but hes a sure bet to be 900-1000 yards. He effortlessly plucks the ball, runs good routes, smart, fast. Id bet on him all day.

Maybe hes second round because hes smaller. But then why isnt everyone else second round?

If Olave, Wilson and Williams are first round, so should Dotson be. Hes a player.

[RashanGary]

Dotson isnt quite as heavy as Greg Jennings was, but he reminds me a bit of Jennings. Hes smooth and effortless and just plucks the ball with ease.

Like I said, hes a safe pick. I just dont see him busting. Hes a natural pass catcher and smart and runs good routes.

Another thing about Dotson, hes polished. I think he could play right away.

[RashanGary]

Maybe you take BPA with 22 and then Dotson at 28.

[Bretsky]

I think Jahan Dotson is one of the safest WRs in this draft. Maybe hes not a 1,300 yard guy, but hes a sure bet to be 900-1000 yards. He effortlessly plucks the ball, runs good routes, smart, fast. Id bet on him all day.

Maybe hes second round because hes smaller. But then why isnt everyone else second round?

If Olave, Wilson and Williams are first round, so should Dotson be. Hes a player.


To me, I think Wilson is just a stud and I'm a guy who HATES OSU with a passion. Olave a very good fit for GB. I think both run better routes and are also ahead of Dotson because I think Dotson can get jammed at the line of scrimmage; doesn't seem that strong. But he's slippery.

I know I get caught up at wanting guys at certain levels. Dotson seems like a round 2 guy to me; upper round two.

I have a hard time between Skyy Moore and Dotson. There are things about Watson I like better than both but that's me always shooting for the upside :))

In the end I'd really like one of the top 5 at pick 22 unless a stud D falls (unlikely) and then if Watson or Moore or Pickens are there pick 53 I'd run up and hand in the card. Assuming Dotson is not around pick 53.



P.S. I LOVE THE WR DEBATES so keep the data coming :)) In the end, if history has it's way, GB will draft a WR over one I really want anyways....lol.

Yall know I'm the guy who's been begging for a high round WR for many many years now and honestly I blame Gute for the serious lack of talent we have there because he's neglected the position and/or made bad decisions on who to draft there.

[Bretsky]

Dotson isnt quite as heavy as Greg Jennings was, but he reminds me a bit of Jennings. Hes smooth and effortless and just plucks the ball with ease.

Like I said, hes a safe pick. I just dont see him busting. Hes a natural pass catcher and smart and runs good routes.

Another thing about Dotson, hes polished. I think he could play right away.


I tend to plug in Olave into your description of Dotson. Heard many compare Olave to Marv Harrison.

WHO is the best Jennings Comp ? Jennings was just a Fabulous Route Runner who didn't allow others to jam him well at the LOS. He's one of the best route runners we've ever had ? But isn't he quite a bit bigger and stronger than Dotson ?

Now if you believe in Matty (which I do as well) he can find ways to use a lil guy; but I'd rather swing for maybe a higher all around player. RG, I still give you infinite credit for James Carpenter. Maybe you've plucked the James Carpenter of WR's.

I just tend to put Dotson in the second tier or WR's I'd probably want between picks 35 and 55

[RashanGary]

There are a handful of good receivers. I mean, you turn on the highlights and they all look good.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like Skyy Moore more than Dotson. He has a better chance of staying outside as a pro. A lot of the WRs success will come down to where they land though. For the Packers I’d take these WRs before Dotson:

London, Williams, Burks, Olave, Pickens, Watson, Pierce, Moore, and maybe Tolbert.

[Upnorth]

I always though the reason Jennings never got jammed was he was smooth. Un complicated efficent routes. He did some hand fighting, and was good at it.
How is dotson at that? Does he run smooth? Can he get a touchdown on a broken leg?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Most years I have a comp to Greg Jennings, but I couldn't come up with a good one this year. Most of the guys who are relatively similar to him this year are much lighter. Skyy Moore might be the closest. Dotson, to me, is more like Tyler Lockett.

[run pMc]

Dotson is a little guy, probably best in the slot, and GB has Amari and Cobb there already.
I'm with Harvey, there are many WRs I'd prefer over Dotson.

[Joemailman]

I tend to plug in Olave into your description of Dotson. Heard many compare Olave to Marv Harrison.

WHO is the best Jennings Comp ? Jennings was just a Fabulous Route Runner who didn't allow others to jam him well at the LOS. He's one of the best route runners we've ever had ? But isn't he quite a bit bigger and stronger than Dotson ?

Now if you believe in Matty (which I do as well) he can find ways to use a lil guy; but I'd rather swing for maybe a higher all around player. RG, I still give you infinite credit for James Carpenter. Maybe you've plucked the James Carpenter of WR's.

I just tend to put Dotson in the second tier or WR's I'd probably want between picks 35 and 55I agree with Harvey that the best comparison to Jennings is probably Skyy More. Jennings weighed 197 at the combine. Guys like Dotson are almost 20 pounds lighter. Still I think if the Packers think a smaller guy is special, they'll take him. TT liked drafting big receivers (Terrence Murphy, James Jones, Jordy Nelson), but he still drafted smaller guys if he really liked them (Jennings, Randall Cobb). Albeit in the 2nd round.

[RashanGary]

Tyreek Hill is 5-10 and 185. He does fine at that height and weight.

I think Dotson can do well in the NFL at that height and weight too.

[RashanGary]

Steve Smith played at 5-9 and 185. He was pretty good. Dotson should not be disregarded because he is the exact height and weight of some of the best WRs.

[RashanGary]

Antonio Brown 5-10 and 185

[RashanGary]

Antonio brown
5-10 184 4.59 40

Steve Smith
5-10 185 4.44 40

Tyreek Hill
5-10 185 4.29 pro day 40

Jahan Dotson
5-11 184 4.43 40


Dotson is not a slot receiver. He can do everything.

[Joemailman]

Antonio brown
5-10 184 4.59 40

Steve Smith
5-10 185 4.44 40

Tyreek Hill
5-10 185 4.29 pro day 40

Jahan Dotson
5-11 184 4.43 40


Dotson is not a slot receiver. He can do everything.

I agree. Seems like a lot of people see a WR under 6 feet tall and immediately think slot receiver.

[Joemailman]

Packers hosting Devante Wyatt on a visit today. There have been reports of character concerns with him, so Packers may want a face to face visit to get a sense of what he's like.

However, I haven't heard what those character concerns actually are, so it could be teams spreading mud about him because they want him to fall to them in the draft.

Edit:


According to a University of Georgia police incident report, the 6-foot-3, 301-pound senior was involved in a verbal altercation last Friday with a female student that led to him kicking her McWhorter apartment door multiple times from the hallway to force it open. The Clarke County Sheriff’s Office charged him with three misdemeanors — family violence, criminal trespass and damage to property. According to media reports, he was booked into the Clarke County Jail late Tuesday night and was still there on Wednesday with a $1,500 bond.

According to the report, the two had an argument in Wyatt’s dorm room at Vandiver Hall, then the female left and walked to her room. Wyatt followed her there, where the incident took place.


“I’m disappointed in the misconduct that is outlined in the incident report," Georgia head coach Kirby Smart said in a statement on the situation. "This is not indicative of the behavior we expect from our student-athletes who represent the University of Georgia and our football program. We will address it internally in the appropriate way.”

[RashanGary]

Tyreek Hill, Lockett, Renfrow, Dionte Johnson, Christian Kirk, Mooney, Cooks, waddle, Marquise Brown and Christian Kirk

All 5-10 or 5-11. Marquise Brown is 5-9

That is 10 of the top 27 receivers in the NFL by receiving yards.

5-10 and 5-11 is not too short. And 184 is not too light. It is right in the wheel house of where guys succeed. And most of these guys are perimeter weapons not slot guys.

Most of them go in the 2nd and 3rd rounds too. But they should not. Jahan Dotson is gonna be a player.

[RashanGary]

There are more 5-10 and 5-11 quality receivers than there are 6-3 and above.

[RashanGary]

Cooper Kupp 6'2" 208
Justin Jefferson 6'1" 195
Davante Adams 6'1" 215
Jamarr Chase 6'0" 201
Deebo Samuel 6'0" 215
Tyreek Hill 5'10" 185
Tyler Lockett 5'10" 182
Dionte Johnson 5'10" 183
DJ Moore 6'0" 210
Mike Williams 6'4" 218
Keenan Allen 6'2" 211
Chris Godwin 6'1" 209
Cee Dee Lamb 6'2" 197
Tee Higgins 6'4"215
Michael Pittman 6'4" 223
Darnell Mooney 5'11"174
Terry McLaurin 6'0" 210
Hunter Renfrow 5'10" 185
Brandin Cooks 5'10" 183
Mike Evans 6'5" 231
Jaylen Waddle 5'10" 182
Marquise Brown 5'9" 180
Christian Kirk 5'11" 200
DK Metcalf 6'4" 235
Devonta Smith 6'0"170

[RashanGary]

1 - 5'9" 1 is below 5'10"

6 - 5'10" 8 are between 5'10" and 5'11"
2 - 5'11"

5 - 6'0"
3 - 6'1" 11 are between 6' and 6'2"
3 - 6'2"

0 - 6'3"
4 - 6'4" 4 are between 6'3' and 6'4"

1 - 6'5" 1 is 6'5" or taller



5'10" to 6'4" are the common heights for NFL receivers

[RashanGary]

You are more likely to find a quality receiver who is 5'10" or 5'11" than you are to find one who is 6'3" or taller. Every year we drool over the tall fast guys and obviously, every year they fail. Maybe we should be looking at the 5'10" and 5'11" guys a little closer. Clearly you're more likely to find one than a tall one.

[Bretsky]

You are more likely to find a quality receiver who is 5'10" or 5'11" than you are to find one who is 6'3" or taller. Every year we drool over the tall fast guys and obviously, every year they fail. Maybe we should be looking at the 5'10" and 5'11" guys a little closer. Clearly you're more likely to find one than a tall one.


Looks like we might wanna eliminate the 5 9" runts :)

[Bretsky]

Antonio brown
5-10 184 4.59 40

Steve Smith
5-10 185 4.44 40

Tyreek Hill
5-10 185 4.29 pro day 40

Jahan Dotson
5-11 184 4.43 40


Dotson is not a slot receiver. He can do everything.



You think Dotson is as good as those guys ? He seems to get jammed at the LOS easily. I do view him as more of a slot but I'm probably wrong.

[Bretsky]

Saw a mock of Burks and Dotson; I'll take that :))

[Bretsky]

KILLER GOOD MOCK OVER AT SBNATION

22. Chris Olave, WR, Ohio State

28. Travis Jones, NT, UConn

53. George Pickens, WR, Georgia

59. Trey McBride, TE, Colorado State

92. Alex Wright, EDGE, UAB

132. Kellen Diesch, OT, Arizona State

140. Leon O’Neal Jr., S, Texas A&M

171. Zach Tom, OL, Wake Forest

[HarveyWallbangers]

Cooper Kupp 6'2" 208
Justin Jefferson 6'1" 195
Davante Adams 6'1" 215
Jamarr Chase 6'0" 201
Deebo Samuel 6'0" 215
Tyreek Hill 5'10" 185
Tyler Lockett 5'10" 182
Dionte Johnson 5'10" 183
DJ Moore 6'0" 210
Mike Williams 6'4" 218
Keenan Allen 6'2" 211
Chris Godwin 6'1" 209
Cee Dee Lamb 6'2" 197
Tee Higgins 6'4"215
Michael Pittman 6'4" 223
Darnell Mooney 5'11"174
Terry McLaurin 6'0" 210
Hunter Renfrow 5'10" 185
Brandin Cooks 5'10" 183
Mike Evans 6'5" 231
Jaylen Waddle 5'10" 182
Marquise Brown 5'9" 180
Christian Kirk 5'11" 200
DK Metcalf 6'4" 235
Devonta Smith 6'0"170

Seems like some bias. Mooney, Brown, Renfrow, and Kirk—yet no Thielen, Gallup, Woods, Diggs, Parker, Boyd, Claypool, AJ Brown, Chark, Sutton, Amari Cooper, Michael Thomas, Hopkins, etc.

[HarveyWallbangers]

And it’s not that little guys don’t have a place in some systems. They just don’t have a lot of value outside of slot WR in a MLF/Shanahan offense.

[RashanGary]

I used top 25 receiving leaders from 2021. But I somehow forgot to include diggs. Oops

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting article on PFF. Scouts named who they thought could go in round 1 that aren’t projected to go round 1. Guys listed:

QB Sam Howell
QB Desmond Ridder
WR Christian Watson
OT Abraham Lucas
OT Rasheed Walker
EDGE Boye Mafe
LB Quay Walker
S Jaquan Brisker

Mafe, Watson, Lucas, and Walker are four of my guys. Walker is one guy I didn’t think much of.

[run pMc]

Tyreek Hill, Lockett, Renfrow, Dionte Johnson, Christian Kirk, Mooney, Cooks, waddle, Marquise Brown and Christian Kirk

All 5-10 or 5-11. Marquise Brown is 5-9

That is 10 of the top 27 receivers in the NFL by receiving yards.

5-10 and 5-11 is not too short. And 184 is not too light. It is right in the wheel house of where guys succeed. And most of these guys are perimeter weapons not slot guys.

Most of them go in the 2nd and 3rd rounds too. But they should not. Jahan Dotson is gonna be a player.

I think he has a chance to be a player, but he's got bust potential too.
I also think, barring some schematic adjustments, he'd be an unusual choice for a pick. Lastly, I think he could get overdrafted: you can talk me into him as a Day 2 pick, but I don't like him as a fit for GB in Round 1.
As for height/size, basically every WR Rodgers has thrown to except Greg Jennings and Cobb has been at least 6' or taller: Jordy, Adams, Driver, Jones, Lazard, MVS, Janis Kumerow, Swain... I wonder if they have size rules around WR like they do for CBs.

Dotson is not big and is a good but not great athlete (aside from his 40 time) if you look at his RAS https://ras.football/ras-information/?PlayerID=21120&pos=WR
Tyreek Hill's for comparison: https://ras.football/2020/01/23/tyreek-hill-ras/ Hill was shorter but weighed more, and his testing scores were (in some cases far) superior.

Maybe they take Dotson because you can also get value on ST with him returning punts, but I think Gute can get better value and I question his scheme fit with the roster as-is.

[run pMc]

Interesting article on PFF. Scouts named who they thought could go in round 1 that aren’t projected to go round 1. Guys listed:

QB Sam Howell
QB Desmond Ridder
WR Christian Watson
OT Abraham Lucas
OT Rasheed Walker
EDGE Boye Mafe
LB Quay Walker
S Jaquan Brisker

Mafe, Watson, Lucas, and Walker are four of my guys. Walker is one guy I didn’t think much of.

Wow... that's a lot of speculation.. and a lot of other good players sliding out of Round 1. Seems like the consensus is for Devin Lloyd to be a R1 pick, Quay Walker feels like a reach in late R1. Lucas and Walker too.
The QBs could be late R1 picks -- QBs are often overdrafted but a good one is so important to a team's success that it can be a worthwhile gamble. I don't see it with Howell, Ridder is a maybe... wouldn't shock me if both go R1. Probably better for GB if they do, actually.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wow... that's a lot of speculation.. and a lot of other good players sliding out of Round 1. Seems like the consensus is for Devin Lloyd to be a R1 pick, Quay Walker feels like a reach in late R1. Lucas and Walker too.
The QBs could be late R1 picks -- QBs are often overdrafted but the value of a good one is so disproportionate to a team's success that it can be a worthwhile gamble. I don't see it with Howell, Ridder is a maybe... wouldn't shock me if both go R1. Probably better for GB if they do, actually.

I haven't gotten to LBs yet, so I can't say whether I like Lloyd or Walker more, but I do know that in the modern NFL, it's hard for ILBs with average speed to be elite. Devin Lloyd ran a 4.66 40, so we'll see if his skills translate. Will he be able to cover enough?

I really like Lucas. He's actually my 5th rated OT.

I'm slightly higher on Howell than Ridder. I think Howell has better arm talent, he's athletic, and his 2020 tape is really good. UNC lost a bunch of offensive players after 2020, and they implemented a new offense--which I don't think did justice to Howell.

[run pMc]

I've seen Lucas mocked to GB a few times in the mid-rounds; and I'd be fine with that. I'm not sure who their starting RT is going to be... Njiman? Jenkins won't be ready to play, and they'll baby him after the Bahktiari ACL drama.

I like Quay Walker, I don't like him R1 though. He could take over for Devondre Campbell in 2 years. Devin Lloyd is supposedly a good IQ guy and good athlete, the 4.66 is a little surprising. I think he's ok but nothing special. I'd rather not take an ILB before R3, but if I had to choose I'd take Walker in R2 over Lloyd in R1.

To me ILBs are the RBs of the defense; if there's an obvious playmaker you take them early else you don't spend a lot of capital for them... and they usually don't last very long because of how physical a position it is.
They are important enough where you need to have competency at the position, and often GB hasn't done that.

[RashanGary]

There are plenty of 5'10" and 5'11" WRs who get 1,000 yards in the NFL. But I'm curious what all time greats usually look like.

Jerry Rice 6'2" 200
Larry Fitzgerald 6'3" 218
Terrell Owens 6'3" 224
Randy Moss 6'4" 210
Isaac Bruce 6'0" 188
Tim Brown 6'0" 195
Steve Smith 5'9" 195
Marvin Harrison 6'0" 185
Reggie Wayne 6'0" 203
Andre Johnson 6'3" 229
James Lofton 6'3" 192
Cris Carter 6'3" 202
Anquon Boldin 6'1" 220
Henry Ellard 5'11" 180
Tory Holt 6'0" 200
Julio Jones 6'3" 220
Andre Reed 6'2" 190
Steve Largent 5'11" 187
Irving Fryar 6'0" 200
Art Monk 6'3" 210
Brandon Marshall 6'5" 232
Antonio Brown 5'10" 185
Jimmy Smith 6'1" 213
Charlie Joiner 5'11" 188
Hines Ward 6'0" 205
Derrick Mason 5'10" 197

[RashanGary]

1 - 5'9"
2 - 5'10"
3 - 5'11"
7 - 6'0"
2 - 6'1"
2 - 6'2"
7 - 6'3"
1 - 6'4"
1 - 6'5"

It looks like your prototype WR is between 6'0" and 6'3". It's somewhat rare to see 5'10" and 5'11" and really rare to see 6'4" or taller.

[Joemailman]

Alec Pierce of Cincinnati is now my favorite guy in the draft. Like me and my brothers, he grew up in the Chicago area but was always a Packer fan. On Friday night, make it happen Gute!

[RashanGary]

John Metchie is a guy who can be had a little later because of his ACL. Maybe we take him with our 3rd round pick and give him a redshirt year.

[Bretsky]

Alec Pierce of Cincinnati is now my favorite guy in the draft. Like me and my brothers, he grew up in the Chicago area but was always a Packer fan. On Friday night, make it happen Gute!


I would be on board.

[RashanGary]

I want to see us get John Metchie in the 2nd or 3rd.

Good blocker
Good route runner
Fast
Good release
Explosive first step to get off line and create separation
Just enough size
A lot of production in college

Just has an ACL. But he can kind of do everything.

[HarveyWallbangers]

1 - 5'9"
2 - 5'10"
3 - 5'11"
7 - 6'0"
2 - 6'1"
2 - 6'2"
7 - 6'3"
1 - 6'4"
1 - 6'5"

It looks like your prototype WR is between 6'0" and 6'3". It's somewhat rare to see 5'10" and 5'11" and really rare to see 6'4" or taller.

Not one under 180 pounds--like Dotson

[Bretsky]

OK you guys have convinced me; let's draft 3-4 :)))

[HarveyWallbangers]

Alec Pierce of Cincinnati is now my favorite guy in the draft. Like me and my brothers, he grew up in the Chicago area but was always a Packer fan. On Friday night, make it happen Gute!

Nice!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Cool new tool

http://espnsportsanalytics.com/

[HarveyWallbangers]

1 - 5'9"
2 - 5'10"
3 - 5'11"
7 - 6'0"
2 - 6'1"
2 - 6'2"
7 - 6'3"
1 - 6'4"
1 - 6'5"

It looks like your prototype WR is between 6'0" and 6'3". It's somewhat rare to see 5'10" and 5'11" and really rare to see 6'4" or taller.

6'4" WRs are rare. 5'10" or 5'11" WRs aren't. There are 10 receivers projected to get drafted under 6'0" this. There are 3 that are 6'4" or taller. There were 3 receivers who were 6'4" or taller drafted last year. There were 12 WRs under 6'0".

There were no 6'4" or taller WRs drafted on day 1 or day 2 last year.
2020 was a good year for tall WRs. Three guys (Michael Pittman, Tee Higgins, and Chase Claypool) were all drafted on day 2.

[Joemailman]

Cool new tool

http://espnsportsanalytics.com/

More and more, Burks looks like the pick at 22 to me.

[RashanGary]

Not one under 180 pounds--like Dotson

I thought Dotson was 184. 178 seems light. He might be too small, but it is really splitting hairs.

[RashanGary]

6'4" WRs are rare. 5'10" or 5'11" WRs aren't. There are 10 receivers projected to get drafted under 6'0" this. There are 3 that are 6'4" or taller. There were 3 receivers who were 6'4" or taller drafted last year. There were 12 WRs under 6'0".

There were no 6'4" or taller WRs drafted on day 1 or day 2 last year.
2020 was a good year for tall WRs. Three guys (Michael Pittman, Tee Higgins, and Chase Claypool) were all drafted on day 2.

People who are 6-4 or taller are more rare in general.

But seeing the heights of the 2021 leading receivers and of the all time leading, it brings some perspective. You are just as likely to find a shorter one as you are a tall one. More likely.

[RashanGary]

More and more, Burks looks like the pick at 22 to me.

If we take a WR at 22.

[Sparkey]

More and more, Burks looks like the pick at 22 to me.

Can he play outside ? Everything I see is he ran short routes off the tackle or over the middle. Rodgers loves throwing outside...

[Joemailman]

Can he play outside ? Everything I see is he ran short routes off the tackle or over the middle. Rodgers loves throwing outside...

I see Burks lining up all over the place. His ability to play inside, outside, and even in the backfield will lead to many different ways to scheme to get him open. And he's pretty good on contested balls. He is not the most polished route runner (he's not Olave), but he's great with the ball in his hands. I think he's a good fit for this offense. He would not have been a good fit in McCarthy's offense.

[Bretsky]

I thought Dotson was 184. 178 seems light. He might be too small, but it is really splitting hairs.

Listened to him and loved his interview; I'd cheer for him as a Packer. He was 178; apparently he's put on 3lbs so currently 181

[Bretsky]

Can he play outside ? Everything I see is he ran short routes off the tackle or over the middle. Rodgers loves throwing outside...

Plenty of data out there showing he can play the outside as well, and he comes down with the 50/50 balls all the time. More I watch him, more I like him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

People who are 6-4 or taller are more rare in general.

But seeing the heights of the 2021 leading receivers and of the all time leading, it brings some perspective. You are just as likely to find a shorter one as you are a tall one. More likely.

Not as a percentage of those that are available at those respective measurements. There are only about 2-4 WRs drafted each year who are 6'4" or taller. Going back to 2014 only 8 of them ran 4.50 or less in the 40.

Also, I think your list might be flawed. If you have Anquan Boldin on that list, you should have Mike Evans.

I was looking at the all-time best RAS scores for WRs. These are the guys that scored higher than Christian Watson all-time

1) Calvin Johnson* (10 RAS, 6'5" 239, 4.35 40, 1.52 10yd split, 42.5" vert, 139" broad)
2) Chase Claypool* (9.99 RAS, 6'4" 238, 4.42 40, 1.56 10yd split, 40.5" vert, 126" broad)
3) Javon Walker (9.98 RAS, 6'3" 210, 4.35 40, 1.50 10yd split, 4.05 shuttle, 6.86 3 cone, 39.5" vert, 128" broad)
4) Andre Johnson* (9.98 RAS, 6'2" 230, 4.41 40, 4.10 shuttle, 39" vert, 132" broad)
5) Vincent Jackson* (9.97 RAS, 6'5" 241, 4.51 40, 1.57 10yd split, 4.00 shuttle, 39" vert, 129" broad)
6) Roy Hall (9.97 RAS, 6'2" 229, 4.41 40, 1.50 10yd split, 4.13 shuttle, 6.65 3 cone, 37.5" vert, 123" broad)
7) Julio Jones (9.97 RAS, 6'3" 220, 4.34 40, 1.50 10yd split, 4.25 shuttle, 6.66 3 cone, 38.5" vert, 135" broad)

Christian Watson (9.96 RAS, 6'4" 208, 4.36 40, 1.45 10yd split, 4.19 shuttle, 6.96 3 cone, 38.5" vert, 136" broad)

* Calvin Johnson and Claypool didn't do shuttle or 3 cone, so they may not have finished higher than Watson if they completed all of the drills.
* Andre Johnson and Jackson didn't do 3 cone.

Note: I'm not including Joe Webb (college QB), Matt Jones (college QB), and Moritz Boehringer (who knows what he was) because they had little to no experience playing WR.

That's pretty good company.

[RashanGary]

Not as a percentage of those that are available at those respective measurements. There are only about 2-4 WRs drafted each year who are 6'4" or taller. Going back to 2014 only 8 of them ran 4.50 or less in the 40.

Also, I think your list might be flawed. If you have Anquan Boldin on that list, you should have Mike Evans.

I was looking at the all-time best RAS scores for WRs. These are the guys that scored higher than Christian Watson all-time

1) Calvin Johnson* (10 RAS, 6'5" 239, 4.35 40, 1.52 10yd split, 42.5" vert, 139" broad)
2) Chase Claypool* (9.99 RAS, 6'4" 238, 4.42 40, 1.56 10yd split, 40.5" vert, 126" broad)
3) Javon Walker (9.98 RAS, 6'3" 210, 4.35 40, 1.50 10yd split, 4.05 shuttle, 6.86 3 cone, 39.5" vert, 128" broad)
4) Andre Johnson* (9.98 RAS, 6'2" 230, 4.41 40, 4.10 shuttle, 39" vert, 132" broad)
5) Vincent Jackson* (9.97 RAS, 6'5" 241, 4.51 40, 1.57 10yd split, 4.00 shuttle, 39" vert, 129" broad)
6) Roy Hall (9.97 RAS, 6'2" 229, 4.41 40, 1.50 10yd split, 4.13 shuttle, 6.65 3 cone, 37.5" vert, 123" broad)
7) Julio Jones (9.97 RAS, 6'3" 220, 4.34 40, 1.50 10yd split, 4.25 shuttle, 6.66 3 cone, 38.5" vert, 135" broad)

Christian Watson (9.96 RAS, 6'4" 208, 4.36 40, 1.45 10yd split, 4.19 shuttle, 6.96 3 cone, 38.5" vert, 136" broad)

* Calvin Johnson and Claypool didn't do shuttle or 3 cone, so they may not have finished higher than Watson if they completed all of the drills.
* Andre Johnson and Jackson didn't do 3 cone.

Note: I'm not including Joe Webb (college QB), Matt Jones (college QB), and Moritz Boehringer (who knows what he was) because they had little to no experience playing WR.

That's pretty good company.

I am not against him. I just think you are missing a lot of good players like Jennings, Sterling Sharpe (5-11.5), OBJ, Antonio Brown and others. I do not think we should be limiting our receivers to the tall ones.

John Metchie is a guy I would love to add in the 3rd round. He is 5-11 and 1/4 inch. 187. He blocks well, releases well and does everything well. Just has an ACL that I would be willing to wait on.

[RashanGary]

Kevin Austin is another one. He has a shot in the middle rounds. You can get receivers later.

[run pMc]

I am not against him. I just think you are missing a lot of good players like Jennings, Sterling Sharpe (5-11.5), OBJ, Antonio Brown and others. I do not think we should be limiting our receivers to the tall ones.

John Metchie is a guy I would love to add in the 3rd round. He is 5-11 and 1/4 inch. 187. He blocks well, releases well and does everything well. Just has an ACL that I would be willing to wait on.

I like Metchie, but probably later than R3 due to that ACL. Seems like a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none type and I think he's a high floor. I'm not sure he has a high ceiling though.

Either way I think he's a pretty good route runner and 96 catches in the SEC (albeit at a less than 12 ypc) isn't nothing. Between the ACL and an enlarged heart he might be a medical concern for Gute. I could see a team like the Patriots taking a flyer on him.

[run pMc]

Kevin Austin is another one. He has a shot in the middle rounds. You can get receivers later.

Yeah, I'm trying to make sense of him because his production 1st half of season vs. 2nd half is different. Did he make in-season progression or hit a hot streak? I kind of like him though. He's a great athlete and a raw talent still. At a minimum he can play ST while he learns how to play.
I'm sure he's on Gute's radar and if he's there Day 3 I'd be fine if they take him.

[RashanGary]

Yeah, I'm trying to make sense of him because his production 1st half of season vs. 2nd half is different. Did he make in-season progression or hit a hot streak? I kind of like him though. He's a great athlete and a raw talent still. At a minimum he can play ST while he learns how to play.
I'm sure he's on Gute's radar and if he's there Day 3 I'd be fine if they take him.

Go watch his highlight reel. It is the coolest highlight reel in this draft. Pulls down tough catches over and over

[RashanGary]

I would not mind Burks in the first and then either Metchie or Kevin Austin later

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wasn't a big fan of Austin. Austin and Isaiah Weston both tested really well, but they are late round fliers for me.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I am not against him. I just think you are missing a lot of good players like Jennings, Sterling Sharpe (5-11.5), OBJ, Antonio Brown and others. I do not think we should be limiting our receivers to the tall ones.

John Metchie is a guy I would love to add in the 3rd round. He is 5-11 and 1/4 inch. 187. He blocks well, releases well and does everything well. Just has an ACL that I would be willing to wait on.

I'm not opposed to any body type. I actually think there's room for all shapes and sizes in the MLF scheme. However, at 178 pounds I don't know that he can play outside in the NFL, and outside WR is a much bigger need for this team than slot WR. I have fewer concerns about Skyy Moore (or Greg Jennings). They would fit fine on the outside in MLF's scheme. There's another little WR that I think might be able to play outside, Calvin Austin.

[HarveyWallbangers]

A couple of interesting tidbits about Watson:

1) His dad, Tim, was a 6th round pick in 1992 by the GREEN BAY PACKERS.
2) Ty Fryfogle (a WR prospect from Indiana in this year's draft) was the other starting WR on Watson's high school team.
3) People knock his production, but they don't realize that NDSU ran the ball ~700 times and passed ~260 times last year. It's a team that ran the ball over 70% of the time. He also missed 3 games last year. In that context his production was fine. Andy Herman points out in this video that Christian Watson ran the same amount of routes in his career as Jameson Williams. He had more receptions, more yards, and more yards/reception (fewer TDs).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOu_1OUoQoI

[Joemailman]

I wasn't a big fan of Austin. Austin and Isaiah Weston both tested really well, but they are late round fliers for me.

Austin will likely be a late round pick. His lack of playing time at Notre Dame, for various reasons, will hold him back. He's likely a developmental player. Packers don't currently have a 6th round pick, but that's where I see him going.

[Fritz]

What defensive linemen might be available at #22 or #28 that are good prospects? Could that Wyatt kid from Georgia still be available, or is that a fantasy? How about that UConn kid, Travis whatever?

[jklowan]

What defensive linemen might be available at #22 or #28 that are good prospects? Could that Wyatt kid from Georgia still be available, or is that a fantasy? How about that UConn kid, Travis whatever?

In just about every mock I have seen all DL are available at 22 & 28 so if we choose to go that route we would have or pick, round 2 is where they seem to start to go.

[Bretsky]

A couple of interesting tidbits about Watson:

1) His dad, Tim, was a 6th round pick in 1992 by the GREEN BAY PACKERS.
2) Ty Fryfogle (a WR prospect from Indiana in this year's draft) was the other starting WR on Watson's high school team.
3) People knock his production, but they don't realize that NDSU ran the ball ~700 times and passed ~260 times last year. It's a team that ran the ball over 70% of the time. He also missed 3 games last year. In that context his production was fine. Andy Herman points out in this video that Christian Watson ran the same amount of routes in his career as Jameson Williams. He had more receptions, more yards, and more yards/reception (fewer TDs).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOu_1OUoQoI




Who do you like more, Burks or Watson ?

[Joemailman]

What defensive linemen might be available at #22 or #28 that are good prospects? Could that Wyatt kid from Georgia still be available, or is that a fantasy? How about that UConn kid, Travis whatever?

Based on some sites I've looked at that calculate the odds, Wyatt is probably available at 22. It's about 50/50 on whether he's available at 28. Travis Jones is likely available.

[bobblehead]

In just about every mock I have seen all DL are available at 22 & 28 so if we choose to go that route we would have or pick, round 2 is where they seem to start to go.

And that is why "mock draft" analysts are a joke.

[jklowan]

Not so sure about that DL take a while to develop and not many typically go in the 1st round of a draft

[HarveyWallbangers]

Who do you like more, Burks or Watson ?

Overall, I lean Burks. For the Packers, I lean Watson. I lean Travis Jones over Devonte Wyatt for the Packers. Here’s my reasoning: we need a good, all around DL to pair with Kenny. I think Jones can be a very good run stuffer—yet also give a team pass rush ability. The other guys are more one dimensional. I’d like to pair another Kenny Clark type next to Kenny. And if Kenny got hurt, God forbid, an ideal substitute for him. So often, when Kenny is injured or playing hurt, the defense suffers miserably.

[HarveyWallbangers]

But I am a sucker for small school types with elite, or near elite, athleticism. Guys like Watson, Travis Jones, Zion Johnson (started his college career at Davidson), Nick Collins, Zyon McCollum, Greg Jennings, Pierre Strong, Chad Muma, Logan Wilson, Troy Andersen, Brian Urlacher, Leighton Vander Esch, etc. Those guys weren't born with a silver spoon, so you don't normally have to worry about their work ethic. I won't list the ones who were busts. :)

[RashanGary]

I just watched some Christian Watson highlight reel. I like his balance and toughness. He is not your typical 6-4 guy who gets tackled easily. He has some jukes and moves and guys bounced off of him. With a RAS like that and having agility for being tall, yeah, he has a good shot.

I thought he looked a little awkward tracking the ball. I am not sure he is as natural of a pass catcher as you would like.

[RashanGary]

I think you can play Kevin Austin on 33% of the plays and just have him run deep routes over and over. He is so fast and tracks the ball as well as anyone. He can take that MVS spot right away.

Even if he does not develop, and he might not, he is a one trick pony and can take the top off a defense right now.

[run pMc]

I’d like to pair another Kenny Clark type next to Kenny. And if Kenny got hurt, God forbid, an ideal substitute for him. So often, when Kenny is injured or playing hurt, the defense suffers miserably.

^ 100% this.

[run pMc]

I think you can play Kevin Austin on 33% of the plays and just have him run deep routes over and over. He is so fast and tracks the ball as well as anyone. He can take that MVS spot right away.

Even if he does not develop, and he might not, he is a one trick pony and can take the top off a defense right now.

Well, he's fast and his hands and tracking are good enough. There are lots of areas in his game (release off the line, head fakes, routes, hand fighting, etc.) that need work. You can probably play him on ST in some capacity given his size/speed too. One reason I wasn't a fan of giving MVS a lot of money is you can find fast young guys who can do what he does (run fast, run deep routes).
He's worth a Day 3 flier but he's definitely a developmental project. There are a number of guys like that.

It's often the only thing to go on, but beware of highlight clips. By their very nature they are going to show the players at their best, not at their most consistent. If you can get your hands on a player vs. 'team X' video you'll have a better sense of their game.

[RashanGary]

Bo Melton played on a team that threw for 1,800 yards total in 2020 and 2021. So he didnt have the production. But hes a later round sleeper. Fast. Just enough size.

[Bretsky]

I would be really excited about getting Wyatt/Jones/J Johnson (don't think he'll be there though) with one first round pick and a Olave/Burks/Watson with the other. I'm warming up to Dotson as well. Most analysts think Dotson and Watson could both slip into round 1.

I really doubt Jameson Williams is there for us. Part of this depends on who Guters loves best but I'd love to get one stud on D and a potential stud WR. And then I'm coming back with a WR or top TE in round two as well.


Super Bowl or Bust !

[HarveyWallbangers]

I would be really excited about getting Wyatt/Jones/J Johnson (don't think he'll be there though) with one first round pick and a Olave/Burks/Watson with the other. I'm warming up to Dotson as well. Most analysts think Dotson and Watson could both slip into round 1.

I really doubt Jameson Williams is there for us. Part of this depends on who Guters loves best but I'd love to get one stud on D and a potential stud WR. And then I'm coming back with a WR or top TE in round two as well.


Super Bowl or Bust !

I'd be okay with all of those guys in round 1--except Dotson.

[texaspackerbacker]

I still think Jameson Williams coming off the injury would be a mistake. Watson would be my first choice, followed by Olave and Burks. I'd like to see us get Kevin Austin in the 3rd or 4th round also.

Now that we signed a quality vet, we could get by with drafting just one, but there's still room for two.

[Upnorth]

The name I have heard / seen go to the packers more than any one else, and it's not even close, is olave. I am 99.99% sure we will not get him because of this.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The name I have heard / seen go to the packers more than any one else, and it's not even close, is olave. I am 99.99% sure we will not get him because of this.

Correct

[Joemailman]

The name I have heard / seen go to the packers more than any one else, and it's not even close, is olave. I am 99.99% sure we will not get him because of this.

I think a of of people having him going to the Packers because his route-running ability might make him more able to start immediately than some other WR's. But because of that I don't think he'll be available to the Packers. Plus, I suspect the Packers have Burks just ahead of Olave due to his superior size and blocking power. Burks outweighs Olave by almost 40 pounds.

[Bretsky]

I still think Jameson Williams coming off the injury would be a mistake. Watson would be my first choice, followed by Olave and Burks. I'd like to see us get Kevin Austin in the 3rd or 4th round also.

Now that we signed a quality vet, we could get by with drafting just one, but there's still room for two.


Hell, there is room for 3 draft picks if we want them. We have Watkins who is probably the most talented but a 3, the Lizard, who chemistry wise is tops but another 3 and Randall Cobb who is pretty dam lucky Rodgers loves him or GB would have no interest in using up a roster spot on him.

You can add three draft picks here. Maybe Winfree makes it as well. But you can add a 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, and your guy in the middle rounds and be fine.

I would be incredibly excited to add Williams out of Alabama as well

[Bretsky]

I'd be okay with all of those guys in round 1--except Dotson.

I am probably really stoked for all the guys, and I'd be "ok" with Dotson. I still think Dotson is a guy who should be drafted in 2nd round though.

I've been begging for a round 1 WR for so many years. Beggers (me) can't be choosers :))

[texaspackerbacker]

Last I heard, we still have Malik Taylor. IMO, he's a helluva lot better than Winfree and at least as good as Randall Cobb of the present.

Lazard is plenty good to be a #2 WR. I said a week or so ago, if we got nobody beyond what we had, the Packers would be a winning team - 11 or 12 or 13 wins IMO. Now with Watkins, the Packers are even more solid, and we still are gonna draft some more quality.

I suppose looking at it that way, we could take a chance on Jameson Williams, knowing he probably wouldn't be available early in the season. My issue with him, though is that he may not ever get back to as good as he was - some ACLs are like that. I recall a guy named Nelson who was actually jogging on the sideline when he first got hurt. If we're gonna take a chance on a high potential "project", I'd like it to be Christian Watson.

[Bretsky]

Last I heard, we still have Malik Taylor. IMO, he's a helluva lot better than Winfree and at least as good as Randall Cobb of the present.

Lazard is plenty good to be a #2 WR. I said a week or so ago, if we got nobody beyond what we had, the Packers would be a winning team - 11 or 12 or 13 wins IMO. Now with Watkins, the Packers are even more solid, and we still are gonna draft some more quality.

I suppose looking at it that way, we could take a chance on Jameson Williams, knowing he probably wouldn't be available early in the season. My issue with him, though is that he may not ever get back to as good as he was - some ACLs are like that. I recall a guy named Nelson who was actually jogging on the sideline when he first got hurt. If we're gonna take a chance on a high potential "project", I'd like it to be Christian Watson.

Lizard is a very average 3. I like Winfrees upside more than a sub par Taylor. Williams is reportedly ahead of schedule but he may not be 100 percent for a good year

[Bretsky]

But to me a healthy Williams is an ez call over Watson. Regardless I hope whoever the packers pick turns out to be the best !

[Upnorth]

I think a of of people having him going to the Packers because his route-running ability might make him more able to start immediately than some other WR's. But because of that I don't think he'll be available to the Packers. Plus, I suspect the Packers have Burks just ahead of Olave due to his superior size and blocking power. Burks outweighs Olave by almost 40 pounds.

From what i have seen gute and Lafluer do burks is the higher rated pick for us.

[run pMc]

123-1553-11 with a catch % of 72.8 and 84 1st downs.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamDa01.htm

If they are going to Moneyball this, that's what they have to replace, probably with 2 draft picks and what they currently have. Watkins can get them maybe 1/3 of the way, you might get a little more from Lazard/Cobb/Amari, but I figure you still need to come up with at least 800 yards from somewhere.

As for Winfree and Taylor, those guys are PS guys who eke onto the roster because of ST. They are UDFA guys and if they were going to show anything would have by now. UDFAs like Lazard -- who is a meh WR2/ good WR3 -- making good are rare.
If you think Burks or Williams or Pickens are an upgrade from a UDFA from Ferris St., and they are available you take them.

Amari Rodgers is the ONLY receiver under contract after the season, they will absolutely be changing that.

[bobblehead]

The name I have heard / seen go to the packers more than any one else, and it's not even close, is olave. I am 99.99% sure we will not get him because of this.

He is also the guy I would love to see us land. We haven't drafted "my guy" since Bulaga, so, yes, I don't expect Olave at all.

Even though I am sure we won't take 2 WR in the first the idea of getting Olave and Watson is intriguing. You get the pro ready smooth guy and the physical freak. Almost a Locket/Metcalf kind of deal. Its a good 1/2 combo for an NFL team, but not sure it works with our offense.

The guy I fully expect them to take if he is there would be Burks. Big, strong and versatile. He probably won't be taking the top off the D, but there are plenty of one trick guys who can do that for us. MiLF gets wood thinking about the creative ways to use Burks. I have no idea if he can line up in the backfield ala Deebo, but if he can, he is the perfect scheme fit. Of course I still want Ty Montgomery back, so what do I know.

[bobblehead]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2022/04/15/unpacking-future-packers-no-14-boye-mafe/

Sounds like a packer people pick.

[run pMc]

He is also the guy I would love to see us land. We haven't drafted "my guy" since Bulaga, so, yes, I don't expect Olave at all.

Even though I am sure we won't take 2 WR in the first the idea of getting Olave and Watson is intriguing. You get the pro ready smooth guy and the physical freak. Almost a Locket/Metcalf kind of deal. Its a good 1/2 combo for an NFL team, but not sure it works with our offense.

The guy I fully expect them to take if he is there would be Burks. Big, strong and versatile. He probably won't be taking the top off the D, but there are plenty of one trick guys who can do that for us. MiLF gets wood thinking about the creative ways to use Burks. I have no idea if he can line up in the backfield ala Deebo, but if he can, he is the perfect scheme fit. Of course I still want Ty Montgomery back, so what do I know.

Yeah, I prefer Olave to Burks, but I'm not sure Olave is there at 22 and Burks probably will be. Burks could be a monster if he's deployed correctly, and I think MLF is smart enough to do that. I don't think they take two WRs in R1. I'm not even sure they'll take one, but I expect them to at a minimum take a WR in the first 2 rounds and take a early Day 3 flier on someone like Kevin Austin or Tyquan Thornton.

What about offering a R4 to JAX for Laviska Shenault? He's kinda Deebo-ish and less miles than Ty. Drafting Burks would make them redundant, although having both of them on the field at once could be fun for defenses to figure out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If the Jags were interested, I'd trade a 4th for Shenault. Then, use a 2nd round pick on Pickens, Watson, or Pierce. We'd likely want to trade down from #28 or have to trade up from #53 to get one of those guys.

[RashanGary]

I want Jahan Dotson.

Dionte Johnson, Desean Jackson and Antonio Brown are some good comps for Dotson.

Word from those who have watched him is he is smart and crafty. One thing I see immediately is that he is incredibly natural tracking the ball and plucking it from the sky. He reminds me of Jennings that way, just smooth and efficient and natural.

I have no doubt Dotson will be a player. He can really run too, and stretch the field.


Christian Watson looks clumsy going after the ball. He is not a natural. I am not sold on him.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd be fine with Mafe at 28. 265 pounds and 4.53, and even before the Davante thing, I was wanting an edge rusher in the first round.

Is there any serious expectation that Shenault could be gotten for a 4th round pick? I sort of doubt it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I doubt the Packers have a poor blocking, 178lb receiver high on their board, but crazier things have happened.

Shanahan (Mike) Coaching Tree - Top 3 Leading WRs

San Francisco - Kyle Shanahan

Deebo Samuel - 6'0" 215
Brandon Aiyuk - 6'0" 200
Jauan Jennings - 6'3" 212

LA Rams - Sean McVay

Cooper Kupp - 6'2" 208
Robert Woods - 6'0" 195
Van Jefferson - 6'1" 200
Odell Beckham - 5'11" 198 (1/2 season)

Cincinnati - Zac Taylor

Ja'Marr Chase - 6'0" 201
Tee Higgins - 6'4" 215
Tyler Boyd - 6'2" 203

Green Bay - MLF

Davante Adams - 6'1" 215
Allen Lazard - 6'5" 227
MVS - 6'4" 206

[RashanGary]

I doubt the Packers have a poor blocking, 178lb receiver high on their board, but crazier things have happened.

Shanahan (Mike) Coaching Tree - Top 3 Leading WRs

San Francisco - Kyle Shanahan

Deebo Samuel - 6'0" 215
Brandon Aiyuk - 6'0" 200
Jauan Jennings - 6'3" 212

LA Rams - Sean McVay

Cooper Kupp - 6'2" 208
Robert Woods - 6'0" 195
Van Jefferson - 6'1" 200
Odell Beckham - 5'11" 198 (1/2 season)

Cincinnati - Zac Taylor

Ja'Marr Chase - 6'0" 201
Tee Higgins - 6'4" 215
Tyler Boyd - 6'2" 203

Green Bay - MLF

Davante Adams - 6'1" 215
Allen Lazard - 6'5" 227
MVS - 6'4" 206

Do you think that is by design??

Smallest WR on each roster:

Ray ray McCloud SF, 5-9, 190
Tutu Atwell rams 5-9, 165
Trent Taylor bengals 5-8, 178
Randall Cobb 5-10, 195

I dont know that they avoid smaller guys. There are just less of them overall in the league. Your average WR is 6-1 and about 205.

[RashanGary]

I will go out on a limb and say MLF and Rodgers would find a few ways to utilize Jahan Dotson.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Do you think that is by design??

Smallest WR on each roster:

Ray ray McCloud SF, 5-9, 190
Tutu Atwell rams 5-9, 165
Trent Taylor bengals 5-8, 178
Randall Cobb 5-10, 195

I dont know that they avoid smaller guys. There are just less of them overall in the league. Your average WR is 6-1 and about 205.

Like I said previously, there is room for all shapes and sizes in the MLF offense, but with his poor size and blocking ability Dotson is a slot WR in this offense. We already have Cobb (present) and Amari (future), so I don't think it's a high priority for the Packers. I don't see Gutey giving 1st round priority to another slot WR.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ray Ray is on the team as a returner. We don't know if SF will even use him as a WR--since he was with Pittsburgh last year.

Atwell is on the team as a returner. He got 10 offensive snaps in the 8 games he played last year.

Taylor also has return ability. He caught 2 passes last year.

[RashanGary]

Like I said previously, there is room for all shapes and sizes in the MLF offense, but with his poor size and blocking ability Dotson is a slot WR in this offense. We already have Cobb (present) and Amari (future), so I don't think it's a high priority for the Packers. I don't see Gutey giving 1st round priority to another slot WR.

Why arent Antonio Brown, Desean Jackson, Dionte Johnson, Brandin Cooks or Emmanuel Sanders slot receivers. Not all 5-11, 180 pound receivers are slot receivers.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Some smaller WRs can play outside because they can beat press. Dotson isn't good against press. Skyy Moore (and Calvin Austin) were two smaller guys who are able to beat press. Also, MLF values WRs that can block. Some smaller guys can block. Randall Cobb is an example. Dotson isn't a good blocker. Different schemes ask for different skills.

WRs against press coverage during their college career (per PFF's Ben Linsey):

1) Drake London
2) Justyn Ross

3) George Pickens
4) Skyy Moore
5) Christian Watson
6) Garrett Wilson
7) Chris Olave
8) Alec Pierce
9) Jalen Tolbert

10) Jahan Dotson

11) Jameson Williams

Note: Treylon Burks isn't on the list because he didn't face press enough to qualify in Linsey's chart. Calvin Austin wasn't included, but I liked how he beat press at the Senior Bowl, and he played almost exclusively at outside WR in college.

I like Dotson. In the right offense I think he can be similar to Tyler Lockett. I just think you'll be disappointed if you are hoping for the Packers to draft Dotson.

[RashanGary]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10021518-jahan-dotson-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-penn-state-wr.amp.html

This article says hes good against press. Says hes hard to get hands on and uses his quickness to win at the line

[RashanGary]

I dont know tho. That 7.28 3 cone is awfully sus. Shouldnt he be able to weave through that drill faster than most?

[HarveyWallbangers]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10021518-jahan-dotson-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-penn-state-wr.amp.html

This article says hes good against press. Says hes hard to get hands on and uses his quickness to win at the line

When I watched his film, I gave him an "Average" grade against press. Statistically, he's not very good against press. See above.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jahan-dotson/3200444f-5428-2798-d9f2-9e8608edcb8a


Play strength issues show up against clingy coverage.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/players/2962944/jahan-dotson/


His tiny frame will leave him susceptible against bigger, more physical corners. Faster than he is quick.

https://www.bigblueview.com/2022/4/12/23020899/2022-nfl-draft-prospect-profile-jahan-dotson-wr-penn-state-scouting-report-ny-giants


Dotson might have to be protected from press-man coverage at the NFL level, at least early on, but he should be very dangerous when teams scheme him a free release.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Jahan-Dotson-WR-PennState


NFL defenders may be able to knock him off his route because of his slight frame.

May have an issue transitioning to the pros - he's 5-foot-11 and goes 184-pound and will likely get pressed more frequently in the NFL than at the college level.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Have you watched Skyy Moore or Calvin Austin yet? Take a look at those guys when you get a chance.

[RashanGary]

How does clay Matthews run a 6.9 3 cone and jj watt a 6.88 and a smaller faster guy like Dotson runs a 7.28. Is that strange to anyone else

[run pMc]

How does clay Matthews run a 6.9 3 cone and jj watt a 6.88 and a smaller faster guy like Dotson runs a 7.28. Is that strange to anyone else

It's a little strange, but JJ was a monster, and if you go back an look at early Clay you'd believe it. Dude was incredibly quick and springy.

I do think the current Shanahan proteges like having 200+ receivers to run block, plus they are likely to survive big hits and get YAC. Even the little guy Gute took last year (Amari Rodgers) was 205 at 5-9. That's RB size. In short, I do think it's by design, and having a shorter speed guy is more of a gimmick or PR/KR player.

Dotson certainly could pan out but I'm not convinced he's a clear fit for MLF. If he's there in R2 and they take him it's decent value and I'd be curious to see how they use him. Watkins is slightly above average size, Lazard is a monster, and Cobb/Rodgers are small. I'd think they'd restock with bigger receivers but talent is talent and they need more of it at WR.

Skyy Moore looks ok -- seems like he plays tough for his size, runs good routes, has pretty good hands and was very productive in the MAC. PFF loves him, for what that's worth. I think he has better hands than Dotson, but Dotson's not bad.
I haven't looked at Calvin Austin just based on his size, but I've heard people rave about him.

[Joemailman]

Alec Pierce of Cincinnati is now my favorite guy in the draft. Like me and my brothers, he grew up in the Chicago area but was always a Packer fan. On Friday night, make it happen Gute!

LaFleur is very close with Mike Denbrock, who has been Pierce's OC his whole career in Cincinnati. They coached together at Notre Dame in 2014 when LaFleur was QB coach and Denbrock was OC/WR coach.

[Deputy Nutz]

Having receivers that have size/strength that can block messes with the count, 3 receivers or more forces defenses to play nickel, but then you see the condensed sets with WR crack blocking on linebackers and even defensive ends. Novel concept, I guess. Think of Allen Lazard for the Packers, who brings a lot of value to the offensive for his ability to block like a tight end.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I love the 1v1 film.

Jahan Dotson vs. Roger McCreary

Roger McCreary is the consensus #6 CB who is projected to be a 2nd round pick. I think he is slightly overrated because of a really good game against Alabama. I had given McCreary one of the best press/man grades, but gave him one of the worst zone grades. Not a lot of teams play press/man all game anymore, so I like my CBs to be a little more versatile. He also has really short arms--below the threshold the Packers like. I don't have arm measurements before 2009, but the Packers have not drafted a CB with arms shorter than 30 1/4" since then. McCreary has 28 7/8" arms.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg9DaIVGKus

[HarveyWallbangers]

OL Dylan Parham vs DL Logan Hall

I like both guys, but I watched the entire game (Memphis offense vs Houston defense) and had given Parham a clear victory in this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2TFUBETE-A

[Joemailman]

It would certainly be interesting to know how many WR's Gute has a 1st round grade on. Most draft sites have 5-6.

I see on some sites Drake London dropping a bit, likely due to his refusal to run the 40. I wonder if teams will downgrade him due to speed concerns, or whether they will just stick with the game tape.

[Fritz]

I would think the ol' Guter's got to take at least one wide receiver with one of those first three picks, maybe even one of the first two. After that, he'll probably look for those hidden gems.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It would certainly be interesting to know how many WR's Gute has a 1st round grade on. Most draft sites have 5-6.

I see on some sites Drake London dropping a bit, likely due to his refusal to run the 40. I wonder if teams will downgrade him due to speed concerns, or whether they will just stick with the game tape.

I don't know if it's a refusal. The dude did fracture his foot.

[RashanGary]

LaFleur is very close with Mike Denbrock, who has been Pierce's OC his whole career in Cincinnati. They coached together at Notre Dame in 2014 when LaFleur was QB coach and Denbrock was OC/WR coach.

A big red flag on Pierce is he only got 55 for 880 yards with a solid senior quarterback. The next guy got 500. So close.

For comparisons sake, Jordy Nelson went 122 for 1606 yards. Jennings went 98 for 1259. Davante Adams went 131 for 1719. Pierce does not fit the mold of being a playmaker like the guys weve had success with. Im not sold.

[RashanGary]

I love the 1v1 film.

Jahan Dotson vs. Roger McCreary

Roger McCreary is the consensus #6 CB who is projected to be a 2nd round pick. I think he is slightly overrated because of a really good game against Alabama. I had given McCreary one of the best press/man grades, but gave him one of the worst zone grades. Not a lot of teams play press/man all game anymore, so I like my CBs to be a little more versatile. He also has really short arms--below the threshold the Packers like. I don't have arm measurements before 2009, but the Packers have not drafted a CB with arms shorter than 30 1/4" since then. McCreary has 28 7/8" arms.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg9DaIVGKus

Nothing there says no on Dotson. He doesnt look small. He looks like a WR.

[RashanGary]

Another guy im not sold on is Jameson Williams. Hes 6-2 and weighs 179 pounds. Jahan Dotson is three inches shorter and the same weight. A little more solid for Dotson. Williams is gonna get broken in half.

Jameson Williams highlight reel is full of wide open uncovered bombs down the middle. They schemed him wide open for those free plays. Its not like watching Jordy Nelson catch 122 passes with Mfs draped on him because hes the only weapon they had at Kansas.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Another guy im not sold on is Jameson Williams. Hes 6-2 and weighs 179 pounds. Jahan Dotson is three inches shorter and the same weight. A little more solid for Dotson. Williams is gonna get broken in half.

Jameson Williams highlight reel is full of wide open uncovered bombs down the middle. They schemed him wide open for those free plays. Its not like watching Jordy Nelson catch 122 passes with Mfs draped on him because hes the only weapon they had at Kansas.

I think he's a tad overrated also, but I do think he plays a bit more than that. He had not been able to train much since his ACL injury. He also may have been sick before the combine. I might be misremembering that. Myjai Sanders got sicked before the combine and weighed 228. A couple of weeks later he weighed 247 at his Pro Day. Williams may have played closer to 190. Still slight.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What do you Badger fans think of DL Matt Henningsen? I just watched a few games of him. He looked solid. He looked more like a midround pick (round 5, maybe late round 4) to me. He didn't get invited to the combine and is projected to be a late round pick. Dude is a good athlete, and it looks like he has decent power and hands. He might be my favorite prospect that didn't get invited to the scouting combine that I've looked at so far.

[RashanGary]

Why dont I see any pro day results?? Did Covid stop pro days or are guys just not running at them anymore?

[RashanGary]

Are we sleeping on Jalen Tolbert?? He has good size, really solid 40 time, monster production, decent enough 3 cone. Maybe Tolbert at the end of the second?

[Joemailman]

Why dont I see any pro day results?? Did Covid stop pro days or are guys just not running at them anymore?

Henningsen did not run 40. But according to this, he did run 10?

https://www.si.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MTg3OTUxMDgwMDI0MzE5ODkz/pro-day-results.webp

[HarveyWallbangers]

Why dont I see any pro day results?? Did Covid stop pro days or are guys just not running at them anymore?

https://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=1021866&DraftYear=2022

Type in the player's name

[HarveyWallbangers]

Henningsen did not run 40. But according to this, he did run 10?

A 1.67 10yd split would be really good for him. That would be tied with Logan Hall for 4th among DL.

Devonte Wyatt 1.60
Jordan Davis 1.63
Eric Johnson 1.63 (Pro Day)
Logan Hall 1.67
Zachary Carter 1.68
Thomas Booker 1.68
Matthew Butler 1.69

Those are the DL under 1.70.

[Bretsky]

What do you Badger fans think of DL Matt Henningsen? I just watched a few games of him. He looked solid. He looked more like a midround pick (round 5, maybe late round 4) to me. He didn't get invited to the combine and is projected to be a late round pick. Dude is a good athlete, and it looks like he has decent power and hands. He might be my favorite prospect that didn't get invited to the scouting combine that I've looked at so far.


He's really good and will be on my list of Packer draft choices in the contest :)) He really deserved to get invited to the combine. Just solid solid solid all around player and didn't get a whole lot of glory cause Leo was just that dam good.

[Joemailman]

Am I right that Leo Chenal's 3 cone time of 6.84 was really good for a 250 lb. ILB?

[Bretsky]

Am I right that Leo Chenal's 3 cone time of 6.84 was really good for a 250 lb. ILB?

YES, here is a blurp

Chenal stood on his 41-inch vertical and 4.52 time in the 40 from the combine but tested extremely fast in the three-cone drill at 6.84 seconds.

[HarveyWallbangers]

YES, here is a blurp

Chenal stood on his 41-inch vertical and 4.52 time in the 40 from the combine but tested extremely fast in the three-cone drill at 6.84 seconds.

Of course, Wisconsin's pro day are notorious for fast times--along with Ohio State.

[RashanGary]

You look at Jalen Tolbert and Jahan Dotson and a physical specimen like Christian Watkins. Its no wonder 2nd round receivers often out perform 1st round. You can make a case any of those guys could be better than the first round guys. John Metchie too.

[Bretsky]

You look at Jalen Tolbert and Jahan Dotson and a physical specimen like Christian Watkins. Its no wonder 2nd round receivers often out perform 1st round. You can make a case any of those guys could be better than the first round guys. John Metchie too.


While I agree 2nd round guys perform well, what date do we have thatt they often outperform 1st rounders ? I'm sure there is some; it doesn't seem that way recently. Seems that the home runs lately have come from round one with the young guys

Justin Jefferson
Chase
Cee Dee Lamb
Waddle

Tee Higgins was a 2nd but that's just cause some dumb@ss decided to trade up for a QB instead of take him late round one :))))

I can't remember where Kopp was drafted but I don't think it was round one

[Bretsky]

You look at Jalen Tolbert and Jahan Dotson and a physical specimen like Christian Watkins. Its no wonder 2nd round receivers often out perform 1st round. You can make a case any of those guys could be better than the first round guys. John Metchie too.



Yup, if we decide to draft 2 WR's between round one and two we could have a great combo for many many years to come . Watkins is a unique dude. I'll take him and Dotson and be happy as hell !!!

[Joemailman]

While I agree 2nd round guys perform well, what date do we have thatt they often outperform 1st rounders ? I'm sure there is some; it doesn't seem that way recently. Seems that the home runs lately have come from round one with the young guys

Justin Jefferson
Chase
Cee Dee Lamb
Waddle

Tee Higgins was a 2nd but that's just cause some dumb@ss decided to trade up for a QB instead of take him late round one :))))

I can't remember where Kopp was drafted but I don't think it was round one

Cooper Cupp was early 3rd round.

[Bretsky]

SEEING WE HAVE A FOCUS ON SPECIAL TEAMS..........INTERESTING LATE ROUND THOUGHT

Velus Jones Jr., WR, Tennessee

Jones ran a 4.31 40 and won SEC CO-Special Teams Player of the Year last season for his exploits as a kick returner and punt returner, two positions the Packers need to improve at under new special teams coordinator Rich Bisaccia after last year’s revolving door of disappointment at returner. Jones also caught 62 passes for 807 yards and seven touchdowns, so he could provide depth at wide receiver while serving more of a purpose on special teams than Juwann Winfree, Malik Taylor or other wide receivers lower on the depth chart. The Packers also hosted Jones on a pre-draft visit earlier this month. Brugler gave him a fifth-/sixth-round grade.

Brugler: “Jones has terrific top-end speed, with the vision, balance and compete skills to create with the ball in his hands as a returner or catch-and-go threat (80.7 percent of his receptions in 2021 came within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage). While he flashes burst in his lower body, he doesn’t have the tempo or setup skills in his patterns to consistently create separation vs. sticky corners. Overall, Jones has a limited route tree and is still developing his rhythm as a receiver, but he has a smooth accelerator with solid ball skills. He offers value as a return man, special-teamer and back-end-of-the-roster receiver (similar to Pharoh Cooper).”

[Joemailman]

Of the top 10 Wide receivers in the NFL in 2021, only 3 were 1st round picks. 2 were 2nd round picks. 3 were 3rd round picks. 2 were 5th round picks.

Not saying Packers won't, but they don't have to.

[Bretsky]

Of the top 10 Wide receivers in the NFL in 2021, only 3 were 1st round picks. 2 were 2nd round picks. 3 were 3rd round picks. 2 were 5th round picks.

Not saying Packers won't, but they don't have to.



And just how many excellent WR's have the Packers taken round 3 or later recently ? It sure seems like it's been a while since we hit on anything below round 2. Donald Driver and Antonio Freeman I'm guessing ?

[Bretsky]

Of the top 10 Wide receivers in the NFL in 2021, only 3 were 1st round picks. 2 were 2nd round picks. 3 were 3rd round picks. 2 were 5th round picks.

Not saying Packers won't, but they don't have to.



What stat are you using for this ? When I think of the top 10 WR's in the NFL

Adams 2nd round
Copp 3rd round
Chase 1st
Jefferson 1st
Waddle 1st (I think I'd consider him top 10)
Lamb 1st
Samueal 2nd I think
Metcalf 2nd
AJ Brown 2nd
McLaurin 1st



I'm sure I'm missing some; I just did this off the top of my head for the list

[HarveyWallbangers]

Waddle is not top 10. You’re missing Tyreek Hill and Stefon Diggs, among others. :) McLaurin wasn’t a 1st round pick.

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=HarveyWallbangers;1114198]Waddle is not top 10.


Hill and Diggs horrible misses. Probably Hopkins too. Didn’t waddle have over 100 catches with a crap qb though ?

[Bretsky]

OOPS

It slipped my mind that we picked SuperStar TE Jay Sternberger in front of Terry

NO NEED TO SAY IT WAS ROUND 3 :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

[QUOTE=HarveyWallbangers;1114198]Waddle is not top 10.


Hill and Diggs horrible misses. Probably Hopkins too. Didn’t waddle have over 100 catches with a crap qb though ?

He averaged under 10 yards/reception, so I'm not impesseed. Very Jarvis Landry-esque.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hill and Diggs horrible misses. Probably Hopkins too.

Two 5th round picks and a 1st round pick. Some others:

Mike Evans, Brandin Cooks = 1st round
Michael Pittman = 2nd round
Keenan Allen, Chris Godwin, Tyler Lockett = 3rd round

[Joemailman]

What stat are you using for this ? When I think of the top 10 WR's in the NFL

Adams 2nd round
Copp 3rd round
Chase 1st
Jefferson 1st
Waddle 1st (I think I'd consider him top 10)
Lamb 1st
Samueal 2nd I think
Metcalf 2nd
AJ Brown 2nd
McLaurin 1st



I'm sure I'm missing some; I just did this off the top of my head for the list

I used receiving yards from 2021.

[Fritz]

Man, when is this damn draft going to happen? Feels like the NFL drags it out longer and longer every year, to try to stay in the news and getting clicks.

Just draft some people and let's all wait our three years to see if they pan out.

[Joemailman]

Man, when is this damn draft going to happen? Feels like the NFL drags it out longer and longer every year, to try to stay in the news and getting clicks.

Just draft some people and let's all wait our three years to see if they pan out.It's normally the last weekend of April. This year with the last Thursday being the 28th, it's as late as it can possibly be.

[RashanGary]

Waddle is not top 10. You’re missing Tyreek Hill and Stefon Diggs, among others. :) McLaurin wasn’t a 1st round pick.

Bretsky, when you look at it, the later round receivers really pan out. Almost as often as the first rounders, and often times better than the first rounders.

This years draft is no different. Dotson, Watson, Metchie and Tolbert could all out perform the first round. Im more than ok getting our guy in the second. Even if we have to trade up. Those two first round picks cant be wasted. Grab BPA and then go get your guy in the second.

[RashanGary]

Top 10 receiving yards leaders

Cooper Kupp
Round 3 Pick 5
6'2" 204
4.62 40
31 vert
6.75 3 cone
4.08 shuttle

Justin Jefferson
Round 1 Pick 22
6'1" 202
4.43 40
37.5 vert

Davante Adams
Round 2 Pick 21
6'1" 212
4.56 40
39.5 vert
6.82 3 cone
4.3 shuttle

Ja'Marr Chase (pro day)
Round 1 Pick 5
6'0" 200
4.38 40
41" vert
7.0 3 cone
3.98 shuttle

Deebo Samuel
Round 2 Pick 4
5'11" 214
4.48 40
39" vert
7.03 3 cone
4.14 shuttle

Tyreek Hill (pro day)
Round 5 Pick 26
5'10" 185
4.29 40
40.5" vert
6.53 3 cone
4.06 shuttle

Stefon Diggs
Round 5 Pick 10
6'0"195
4.46 40
35" vert
7.03 3 cone
4.32 shuttle

Tyler Lockett
Round 3 Pick 5
5'10"182
4.40 40
35.5 vert
6.89 3 cone
4.07 shuttle

Diontae Johnson
Round 3 Pick 2
5'10" 183
4.53 40
33.5 vert
7.09 3-cone
4.45 shuttle


DJ Moore
Round 1 Pick 24
6'0" 210
4.42 40
39.5" vert
6.95 3 cone
4.07 shuttle

4 out of the top 10 were picked before pick 5 in the second round.
4 out of the top 10 were picked between round 2 pick 21 and round 3 pick 5
2 were picked in the 5th round

So you're about as likely to land one in the second to early third as you are from the first to early second.

Odds are if we're going to find one it's going to be before pick 6 in the 3rd round. Could easily move up in the second to find our guy or even sit tight.



Mike Williams

Keenan Allen

Chris Godwin

CeeDee Lamb

Tee Higgins

Michael Pittman

Darnell Mooney

Terry McClaurin

Hunter Renfrow

Brandin Cooks

Mike Evans

Jaylen Waddle

Marquise Brown

Christian Kirk

DK Metcalf

[Bretsky]

Top 10 receiving yards leaders

Cooper Kupp
Round 3 Pick 5
6'2" 204
4.62 40
31 vert
6.75 3 cone
4.08 shuttle

Justin Jefferson
Round 1 Pick 22
6'1" 202
4.43 40
37.5 vert

Davante Adams
Round 2 Pick 21
6'1" 212
4.56 40
39.5 vert
6.82 3 cone
4.3 shuttle

Ja'Marr Chase (pro day)
Round 1 Pick 5
6'0" 200
4.38 40
41" vert
7.0 3 cone
3.98 shuttle

Deebo Samuel
Round 2 Pick 4
5'11" 214
4.48 40
39" vert
7.03 3 cone
4.14 shuttle

Tyreek Hill (pro day)
Round 5 Pick 26
5'10" 185
4.29 40
40.5" vert
6.53 3 cone
4.06 shuttle

Stefon Diggs
Round 5 Pick 10
6'0"195
4.46 40
35" vert
7.03 3 cone
4.32 shuttle

Tyler Lockett
Round 3 Pick 5
5'10"182
4.40 40
35.5 vert
6.89 3 cone
4.07 shuttle

Diontae Johnson
Round 3 Pick 2
5'10" 183
4.53 40
33.5 vert
7.09 3-cone
4.45 shuttle


DJ Moore
Round 1 Pick 24
6'0" 210
4.42 40
39.5" vert
6.95 3 cone
4.07 shuttle

4 out of the top 10 were picked before pick 5 in the second round.
4 out of the top 10 were picked between round 2 pick 21 and round 3 pick 5
2 were picked in the 5th round

So you're about as likely to land one in the second to early third as you are from the first to early second.

Odds are if we're going to find one it's going to be before pick 6 in the 3rd round. Could easily move up in the second to find our guy or even sit tight.



Mike Williams

Keenan Allen

Chris Godwin

CeeDee Lamb

Tee Higgins

Michael Pittman

Darnell Mooney

Terry McClaurin

Hunter Renfrow

Brandin Cooks

Mike Evans

Jaylen Waddle

Marquise Brown

Christian Kirk

DK Metcalf


GREAT DATA

I absolutely do NOT want them to trade up. I would welcome a trade down and with it a selection of Dotson, Watson, or Moore.

I wonder if we could somehow maneuver #28 and our 3rd round pick and end up with two 2nds out of those ?

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, when you look at it, the later round receivers really pan out. Almost as often as the first rounders, and often times better than the first rounders.

This years draft is no different. Dotson, Watson, Metchie and Tolbert could all out perform the first round. Im more than ok getting our guy in the second. Even if we have to trade up. Those two first round picks cant be wasted. Grab BPA and then go get your guy in the second.



Wants to pound table for not our guy, but our "2" guys

We've ignored this position long enough !

And I'd add a late round upside flyer in addition to the 2 high picks.

LET"S SET HIS TEAM UP FOR GRAHAM MERTZ after GB ditched LOVE and drafts him in two years :)))))))))))))))))

[RashanGary]

Top 10 receiving yards leaders

Cooper Kupp
Round 3 Pick 5
6'2" 204
4.62 40
31 vert
6.75 3 cone
4.08 shuttle

Justin Jefferson
Round 1 Pick 22
6'1" 202
4.43 40
37.5 vert

Davante Adams
Round 2 Pick 21
6'1" 212
4.56 40
39.5 vert
6.82 3 cone
4.3 shuttle

Ja'Marr Chase (pro day)
Round 1 Pick 5
6'0" 200
4.38 40
41" vert
7.0 3 cone
3.98 shuttle

Deebo Samuel
Round 2 Pick 4
5'11" 214
4.48 40
39" vert
7.03 3 cone
4.14 shuttle

Tyreek Hill (pro day)
Round 5 Pick 26
5'10" 185
4.29 40
40.5" vert
6.53 3 cone
4.06 shuttle

Stefon Diggs
Round 5 Pick 10
6'0"195
4.46 40
35" vert
7.03 3 cone
4.32 shuttle

Tyler Lockett
Round 3 Pick 5
5'10"182
4.40 40
35.5 vert
6.89 3 cone
4.07 shuttle

Diontae Johnson
Round 3 Pick 2
5'10" 183
4.53 40
33.5 vert
7.09 3-cone
4.45 shuttle


DJ Moore
Round 1 Pick 24
6'0" 210
4.42 40
39.5" vert
6.95 3 cone
4.07 shuttle

4 out of the top 10 were picked before pick 5 in the second round.
4 out of the top 10 were picked between round 2 pick 21 and round 3 pick 5
2 were picked in the 5th round

So you're about as likely to land one in the second to early third as you are from the first to early second.

Odds are if we're going to find one it's going to be before pick 6 in the 3rd round. Could easily move up in the second to find our guy or even sit tight.




Players 10-20 I'm going to include a couple injured players. AJ Brown, Allen Robinson, DeAndre Hopkins and Calvin Ridley

AJ Brown
Round 2 Pick 19
6'0" 226
4.49 40
36.5 vert

Allen Robinson
Round 2 Pick 29
6'2" 220
4.60 40
39" vert
7.00 3 cone
4.00 shuttle

DeAndre Hopkins
Round 1 Pick 27
6'1" 214
4.57 40
36" vert
4.5 shuttle

Calvin Ridley
Round 1 Pick 26
6'1" 189
4.43 40
31" vert
6.88 3 cone
4.41 shuttle

Mike Williams (pro day)
Round 1 Pick 7
6'4" 218
4.54 40
32.5" vert

Keenan Allen
Round 3 Pick 12
6'2" 206

Chris Godwin
Round 3 Pick 20
6'1" 209
4.42 40
36" vert
7.01 3 cone
4.00 shuttle

CeeDee Lamb
Round 1 Pick 17
6'2" 198
4.50 40
34.5" vert

Tee Higgins (pro day)
Round 2 Pick 1
6'4" 216
4.59 40
31" vert
4.53 shuttle

Michael Pittman
Round 2 Pick 2
6'4" 223
4.52 40
36.5" vert
6.96 3 cone
4.14 shuttle

So 10 of the top 20 were taken before pick 6 in the 2nd round.
8 of 20 were taking between pick 6 in the 2nd round through the end of the third round
2 were taken in the 5th round

You're still looking at about equal likelihood in the 2nd and 3rd rounds as the first and early second.


Darnell Mooney

Terry McClaurin

Hunter Renfrow

Brandin Cooks

Mike Evans

Jaylen Waddle

Marquise Brown

Christian Kirk

DK Metcalf

[RashanGary]

It looks like the likelihood of drafting a good receiver drops way off after round 3.

Round 1 through pick 5 of round 2 gets the best results.
Rounds 2 - 3 get good results
After round 3 you're very unlikely to hit

[RashanGary]

14 of 20 were over 200 pounds.
4 of 20 were under 190 pounds.
7 of 20 were 214 pounds or heavier

You're more likely to find big guys than small guys. But 195-213 is the sweet spot.

the slowest time is 4.62
15 of 20 ran 4.56 or better
9 of 20 ran 4.49 or better
6 of 20 ran 4.43 or better

Other than Dionte Johnson who is an outlier, bigger guys can run in the mid to upper 4.5s and still be very successful. Smaller guys who succeed tend to be fast.

[RashanGary]

We're actually sitting in the spot were the highest number of good receivers get taken. 7 out of 20 quality receivers were taken in the 15 slots between pick 22 and pick 37.

[RashanGary]

2012 draft
3 receivers taken before pick 22
Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd, Kendall Wright

2013 draft
1 WR taken before pick 22
Tavon Austin

2014 draft
4 WR taken before pick 22
Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks

2015 draft
4 WRs taken before pick 22
Amari Cooper, Kevin White, Devante Parker, Nelson Agholor

2016 draft
2 WRs taken before pick 22
Corey Coleman, Will Fuller

2017 draft
3 WRs taken before pick 22
Corey Davis, Mike Williams, John Ross

2018 draft
0 WRs taken before pick 22

2019 draft
0 WRs taken before pick 22

2020 draft
4 WRs taken before pick 22
Henry Ruggs, Jerry Juedy, CeeDee Lamb, Jalen Reagor

2021 draft
4 WRs taken before pick 22
JaMarr Chase, Jalen Waddle, Davonta Smith, Kadarius Toney

25 picks taken before pick 22 in 10 years. 2.5 per year.


The odds of all of these receivers being taken before we pick at 22 is slim. NOBODY is going to be drafting Jamison Williams and his 182 pound body in the first round, with an ACL, with no combine, with one year of production. It's not going to happen.

Garrett Wilson will probably be gone. After that, any of the top WR's could make it to pick 22. Olave, Drake London or Burks all have a good shot at being there. Jameson Williams will be there and we will not take him.

[Bretsky]

2012 draft


The odds of all of these receivers being taken before we pick at 22 is slim. NOBODY is going to be drafting Jamison Williams and his 182 pound body in the first round, with an ACL, with no combine, with one year of production. It's not going to happen.

Garrett Wilson will probably be gone. After that, any of the top WR's could make it to pick 22. Olave, Drake London or Burks all have a good shot at being there. Jameson Williams will be there and we will not take him.


Still think he has elite talent.

I will Bet you a Beer at the Famous Oval Office in Green Bay that Jamison Williams is drafted in round one ? Do you accept the challenge ? :))

[RashanGary]

Still think he has elite talent.

I will Bet you a Beer at the Famous Oval Office in Green Bay that Jamison Williams is drafted in round one ? Do you accept the challenge ? :))

I accept!!

[Bretsky]

J Will has KC written all over him

[Bretsky]

I accept!!


whenver the debt is repaid it'll be fun......haha

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Williams will still go in the first round. You need to pay up at the Oval Office.

[Bretsky]

I think Williams will still go in the first round. You need to pay up at the Oval Office.

If you are right, the beer RG buys me will be the best tasting ever :)

[RashanGary]

I dont even think hes the prospect that Justin Jefferson was coming out and Jefferson went 22 with no ACL.

Teams are going to be passing up right now talent in the first round to select a 182 pound receiver with a torn ACL. I dont see it happening.

[call_me_ishmael]

I dont even think hes the prospect that Justin Jefferson was coming out and Jefferson went 22 with no ACL.

Teams are going to be passing up right now talent in the first round to select a 182 pound receiver with a torn ACL. I dont see it happening.

I agree he's not the prospect but I also think that draft was much better. 21 players need to be picked before 22. Normally 3-4 are QBs. I have my doubts that any are QBs this year.

[run pMc]

I think Jameson Williams gets picked Round 1.

I think RG's right about the likelihood of hitting on a WR drops somewhere in R3, and you generally need to run 4.55 or better at 195+ pounds. If you're lighter, you're probably smaller and faster.
I'd also say that in most offenses the outside receiver and the slot receiver are two very different body/athlete-types so there's that also.

I wouldn't shocked at all if Gute waits until Day 2 to take a WR, and that he takes one on Day 3 as well. The Packer fan universe might explode but depending on the pick and scheme fit it might be ok.

There's way too much smoke and lies and mock drafts happening right now. Take a few days away and you'll be amazed at the way players have moved up or down on some pundit's board, like they know any better than the rest of us what Gute or anyone will do.

[RashanGary]

Trevor Penning, OT, Northern Iowa ran a better 3 cone than Jahan Dotson. Thats weird.

[RashanGary]

I think RG's right about the likelihood of hitting on a WR drops somewhere in R3, and you generally need to run 4.55 or better at 195+ pounds. If you're lighter, you're probably smaller and faster.
I'd also say that in most offenses the outside receiver and the slot receiver are two very different body/athlete-types so there's that also.


It looks like it drops way off after the first 10 picks of the 3rd round.

WR is a position you can get in the second round about as effectively as you can the first round. But its also a position that if you dont take by the beginning or round 3, youre probably not going to get a guy.

[Bretsky]

It looks like it drops way off after the first 10 picks of the 3rd round.

WR is a position you can get in the second round about as effectively as you can the first round. But its also a position that if you dont take by the beginning or round 3, youre probably not going to get a guy.



I have absolutely no evidence at all supporting what my view is.

But it seems to be, from past history, that all the quality WR's get plucked by about pick 55.

I remember multiple times in the past ten years several went right before our pick and it seems like we are always in the 58 to 60 mark.

[RashanGary]

I have absolutely no evidence at all supporting what my view is.

But it seems to be, from past history, that all the quality WR's get plucked by about pick 55.

I remember multiple times in the past ten years several went right before our pick and it seems like we are always in the 58 to 60 mark.

Go look at the top 20 receivers I posted. Several were early 3rd round. But none after that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Go look at the top 20 receivers I posted. Several were early 3rd round. But none after that.

Hill and Diggs were 5th round picks. Probably two of the best 4-5 WRs in the NFL.

[RashanGary]

Hill and Diggs were 5th round picks. Probably two of the best 4-5 WRs in the NFL.

2 of twenty in rounds 4 and 5. Not good odds. 18 of 20 came in the first 3 rounds and 17 of 20 came before pick 6 in the third round. So it drops way off

[RashanGary]

Some day Im gonna go through the top 50 receivers when I have time. Im curious what the #2 receivers draft status looks like. And the sizes.

[call_me_ishmael]

Hill and Diggs were 5th round picks. Probably two of the best 4-5 WRs in the NFL.

Diggs I'll give you for sure because AFAIK he had no character issues. Hill dropped because he was in a horrible person and got kicked out of a big league school. I think the talent was super clear with Hill from the jump. Though it is funny, I can't find anything about Tyreek Hill's HS career in football, but plenty on his track career.

[RashanGary]

Diggs I'll give you for sure because AFAIK he had no character issues. Hill dropped because he was in a horrible person and got kicked out of a big league school. I think the talent was super clear with Hill from the jump. Though it is funny, I can't find anything about Tyreek Hill's HS career in football, but plenty on his track career.

This years Tyreek Hill is Kevin Austin, Notre Dame. He was a 4 star recruit, choosing the Irish over Ohio State and other schools. He was suspended for a year for violating team rules and then missed a year with a foot injury. He was supposed to break out in 2021 and did. He went for over 880 yards and showed incredible ball skills last season. He then went to the combine and put on a clinic at 6-2 and 200 pounds. He is projected as a later pick but I think he has the talent to be the best WR in this class. He might take a year or two to develop but hes my late round sleeper this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wasn

[HarveyWallbangers]

I hate trying to post on this site on the phone. Half the time, when I edit, I lose the original post.

[RashanGary]

I hate trying to post on this site on the phone. Half the time, when I edit, I lose the original post.

Apostrophes and quotes cut off. I always use the phone and Ive just gotten used to taking apostrophes out. I wouldnt try to edit a big computer post. That is asking for trouble.

[Bretsky]

MEL KIPER

rated j Dotson higher than Burke .

Also noted Williams would be the top WR in this draft if he didn't get injured and not to be surprised if GB or KC tried to trade up to get him.

Thinks Wilson (goes #8) and London (#10) will be first to go followed by Olave to Eagles at 15. and then Williams

5. Dotson
6l Burks
7. Sky Moore are Kiper's final rankings and he thinks up to 7 could go round 1.


WR's seem to be a hotter commoditiy with all the over the top $$$$ demmand from WR's. Value in taking a WR round one and locking him up 5 cheap years.

MATT MILLER was asked today if any WR could have J Chase like impact. Noted it was unlikely but said if he was healthy J Williams might be the one to have a Chase like rookie year

[Bretsky]

There’s growing confidence around the NFL regarding two of the draft’s most exciting wide receivers.

Alabama wideouts Jameson Williams and John Metchie, who each tore their ACLs last season, are continuing their impressive recoveries, according to several team sources who have evaluated the prospects’ medical situations. Both showed normal progress during their combine medical rechecks last week.

“Metchie is going to be just fine,” an offensive coach told The Athletic. “They all feel good about Jameson. Metchie is like a freak show with how far ahead he is, almost like an Adrian Peterson (recovery). The doctors down there are saying it’s amazing how fast he’s recovering.”

[Fritz]

Good lord. How long until some "expert" factors in "injury recovery speed" as a factor in evaluation?

I think there's got to be some correlation between hair color or penis length and the likelihood of success in the NFL. Somebody's just got to find it.

[RashanGary]

There’s growing confidence around the NFL regarding two of the draft’s most exciting wide receivers.

Alabama wideouts Jameson Williams and John Metchie, who each tore their ACLs last season, are continuing their impressive recoveries, according to several team sources who have evaluated the prospects’ medical situations. Both showed normal progress during their combine medical rechecks last week.

“Metchie is going to be just fine,” an offensive coach told The Athletic. “They all feel good about Jameson. Metchie is like a freak show with how far ahead he is, almost like an Adrian Peterson (recovery). The doctors down there are saying it’s amazing how fast he’s recovering.”

Metchie would be a good grab. Complete player. I might be wrong on Jameson Williams. I just saw highlights and he had so many wide open looks. Maybe he runs that good of routes tho. Maybe he slips to 22.

[Upnorth]

I expect a top wr to look open a lot and have high catch rate.
Shows speed and talent

[RashanGary]

Elgton Jenkins was a 24 year old rookie. So we know the Packers will draft an older guy if they really like him. I dont think Mafe is off the table because of age. But he might be because he wasnt all that productive.

[Joemailman]

Elgton Jenkins was a 24 year old rookie. So we know the Packers will draft an older guy if they really like him. I dont think Mafe is off the table because of age. But he might be because he wasnt all that productive.

People said Rashan Gary wasn't all that productive. Packers went with elite athleticism. Like Gary, Mafe wouldn't need to start right away.

[run pMc]

People said Rashan Gary wasn't all that productive. Packers went with elite athleticism. Like Gary, Mafe wouldn't need to start right away.

Difference being Gary and Mafe are essentially the same age now.
I could see them taking Mafe in R2 or R3 if he's there, but I have a hard time imagining them taking him in R1. Gute likes to bet on upside, and when you're a late blooming 24 year old, you might not have much upside left before you hit 30 and your downside.

Re: Jenkins -- that's an interesting point. He was taken R2 (vs. R1) as a 23 yo (turned 24 Dec rookie season) not sure if being Day 2 vs. Day 1 mattered. I also wonder if the age thing is position relative; OL can play well into their 30's... you don't see many OLBs performing at a high level past 31 or 32.

[Joemailman]

Difference being Gary and Mafe are essentially the same age now.
I could see them taking Mafe in R2 or R3 if he's there, but I have a hard time imagining them taking him in R1. Gute likes to bet on upside, and when you're a late blooming 24 year old, you might not have much upside left before you hit 30 and your downside.

Re: Jenkins -- that's an interesting point. He was taken R2 (vs. R1) as a 23 yo (turned 24 Dec rookie season) not sure if being Day 2 vs. Day 1 mattered. I also wonder if the age thing is position relative; OL can play well into their 30's... you don't see many OLBs performing at a high level past 31 or 32.

I don't think they would take Mafe in Round 1 either. I was just pointing out that they may consider elite athleticism over college production because college production can sometimes be affected by the kind of system a player is playing in. Rashan Gary being an example.

My guess is Packers will be making a selection in the 1st half of the second round. I just don't know if they will get there by trading down from 28 or by trading up from 53.

[Bretsky]

Still pounding the table for top two picks to be WR's.

Gut got us in this horrible position and now we need to get out of it.

Draft a WR pick 22, and then trade 28 back to mid 30's and there pick Watson, Moore, Pickens...Pierce....other Bama WR.....etc.

Odds are strong those guys are gone by pick 53 so trade back some and take your pick !

[Deputy Nutz]

How did Gute get us in this horrible position? Paying your QB 50 million a year, and then having to pay your #1 receiver over 25 million dollars a year as he is close to turning 30 would put this team in a financial situation that gives them very little wiggle room. You can't trade a guy with such a large contract with so much up front money.

Having top talent that won't take team friendly numbers ala Tom Brady is what put the Packers in this position. Whether we paid Adams last year or this year wouldn't have made a difference. Last year it was all about making Arod happy.

[red]

Good lord. How long until some "expert" factors in "injury recovery speed" as a factor in evaluation?

I think there's got to be some correlation between hair color or penis length and the likelihood of success in the NFL. Somebody's just got to find it.

i've been thinking a lot late about how stupid the pre draft process has become. every body part measured, every movement timed, every psychological test in the book run. every millisecond of tape watched a thousand times

and still teams suck just as bad as always about figuring out who will make it and who will bust out

[run pMc]

I don't think they would take Mafe in Round 1 either. I was just pointing out that they may consider elite athleticism over college production because college production can sometimes be affected by the kind of system a player is playing in. Rashan Gary being an example.

My guess is Packers will be making a selection in the 1st half of the second round. I just don't know if they will get there by trading down from 28 or by trading up from 53.

Your guess is as good as anyone's, and probably better than Mel Kiper's lol.
I guess to argue against myself, it's possible they do draft a slightly older prospect because a lot of players stayed in school and are coming out as "super seniors". I'd still be a little concerned about some of those prospects depending on their production and the position they played.

Rashan Gary is a fascinating case -- I didn't like the pick (thought he was too boom-or-bust risky) and have eaten my crow there. I think the number of "freak" athletes without production who pan out is not that high. The further thing that's interesting about Gary was that I heard Gary got all the attention and double teams while Winovich got the sacks. IIRC Winovich was cut by NE this off season.

I guess if Maye or some similar older prospect is clearly getting a lot of attention/double teams/chips then that counts for something.
I won't say much more about Maye specifically or use him as an example -- I'm afraid I'll reverse jinx it and Gute will pick him lol.

For similar rated player, I will say I prefer the PSU Ebekitie kid over Maye and leave it at that.

At the end of the day, I'll root for whomever they pick. I cheer for the Packers.

[RashanGary]

With our first rounders I think its gonna be guys all the draft publications have as second rounders. And not a WR. Everyone is gonna freak out like they do every year.

I think we move up in the second for one of those high value second round receivers.

[Bretsky]

How did Gute get us in this horrible position? Paying your QB 50 million a year, and then having to pay your #1 receiver over 25 million dollars a year as he is close to turning 30 would put this team in a financial situation that gives them very little wiggle room. You can't trade a guy with such a large contract with so much up front money.

Having top talent that won't take team friendly numbers ala Tom Brady is what put the Packers in this position. Whether we paid Adams last year or this year wouldn't have made a difference. Last year it was all about making Arod happy.


Gute is responsible for the Packers WR core. He got us here by neglecting to get a true #2 WR. So when we lose Adams the loss is bigger. He picked the wrong WR last year in round 3, and nelgected the position in other drafts.

[Deputy Nutz]

How can you determine after one season that it was the wrong wr in the the 3rd round? If your expectations are that a 3rd round receiver is going to come into the league and make an impact year one you are being a bit delusional. Receiver is an over valued position anyways with the Packers. ARod and Favre make receivers special, not the other way around.

[Joemailman]

How can you determine after one season that it was the wrong wr in the the 3rd round? If your expectations are that a 3rd round receiver is going to come into the league and make an impact year one you are being a bit delusional. Receiver is an over valued position anyways with the Packers. ARod and Favre make receivers special, not the other way around.

And it sounds like Amari Rodgers played at his college weight last year and Packers want him lighter and quicker. Hope to see a more explosive player this year.

[Upnorth]

How can you determine after one season that it was the wrong wr in the the 3rd round? If your expectations are that a 3rd round receiver is going to come into the league and make an impact year one you are being a bit delusional. Receiver is an over valued position anyways with the Packers. ARod and Favre make receivers special, not the other way around.

I think we have more great players on our roster that took time to develop than great out of the gate.
I think that is true for all rosters.
Amari will be solid at the least. we link him to st, and that is an automatic down grade for us and we view him as worse because of it.
I expect him.to be a reliable (not great just good) slot receiver this season.
Who ever we take as a wr (or preferably wrs) will likely struggle and not be the main solution this year. Our main solution is likely already on the roster.

[texaspackerbacker]

How can you determine after one season that it was the wrong wr in the the 3rd round? If your expectations are that a 3rd round receiver is going to come into the league and make an impact year one you are being a bit delusional. Receiver is an over valued position anyways with the Packers. ARod and Favre make receivers special, not the other way around.

Good Post, although judging a kick/punt returner after one season is a little more valid.

[Joemailman]

To totally confuse the roster situation, Gute could draft Armani Rogers, a developmental TE out of Ohio. He was a 6-5, 225 pound running QB who played at UNLV and Ohio. Making the move to TE.

Probably won't be drafted, but Robert Tonyan had a similar career path.

[RashanGary]

3 days and we get two first round picks. Woot!

[Joemailman]

This graph shows Gutekunst places a high importance in athleticism (see RAS scores), and is more willing than many GM's to draft older players.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRMY2BFXMAMOzsi?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Upnorth]

Here is a question for you guys, skyy Moore hrs trey McBride. Given the choice I would go mcbride all day, any chance he lasts to our 2nd rd picks?

[Joemailman]

Here is a question for you guys, skyy Moore hrs trey McBride. Given the choice I would go mcbride all day, any chance he lasts to our 2nd rd picks?

I think McBride would be there. I see Moore is more of a early/mid 2nd round pick. I think McBride is more versatile a player than Moore.

[red]

the more i hear about Christian Watson the more i think he will be one of our first round picks

a guy whos stock skyrocketed at the senior bowl. sounds like what we would look for

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here is a question for you guys, skyy Moore hrs trey McBride. Given the choice I would go mcbride all day, any chance he lasts to our 2nd rd picks?

I'd be totally fine with McBride with a late 2nd. He's going to be an all around TE that MLF would like.

[Bretsky]

Here is a question for you guys, skyy Moore hrs trey McBride. Given the choice I would go mcbride all day, any chance he lasts to our 2nd rd picks?


Even money I take Moore all day; but there are 3 or 4 TE's I really do like. With that being said, I'd bet RG another beer at the Oval Office that Moore is long gone by the time the Packers pick in round 2...lol

I think there is a strong chance we have a shot at Mcbride in R2

[RashanGary]

Gute said its a good wr draft. I hope we get our guy in the first two rounds.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Gute said its a good wr draft. I hope we get our guy in the first two rounds.

I'm pretty confident that we'll take one WR in the first two rounds.

[Bretsky]

Gute said its a good wr draft. I hope we get our guy in the first two rounds.

are you accepting my 2nd bet offer ?

[HarveyWallbangers]

are you accepting my 2nd bet offer ?

Avatar bet?

[Joemailman]

A lot of reports that there are teams with only 15 or so players in this draft with 1st round grades. So if Gute wants to trade up from 22, he should be able to find a buyer.

[HarveyWallbangers]

A lot of reports that there are teams with only 15 or so players in this draft with 1st round grades. So if Gute wants to trade up from 22, he should be able to find a buyer.

We here this every year.

[call_me_ishmael]

Yeah I mean whether there are that many good players or not is sort of irrelevant, there are still 32 teams picking in the first round. I guess it means there could be more teams willing to move down, so maybe the price to move up might be less.

Personally, I think we need bodies and a numbers game so I'd rather trade back the other way and get more picks. I am a big fan of the TT approach.

[Joemailman]

We here this every year.

I know it's always a relatively low number. However, the weak QB class, and lack of true stud WR's may make it even more so.

Someone said recently this could be the 1st draft in NFL history where no skill offensive players (QB, RB, WR, TE) will be drafted in the 1st 10 picks.

It does seem to me the value on this draft is in rounds 2-3.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is a great draft scenario where they trade #22 for 39 and 40.

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1518963358178832384

[RashanGary]

Even money I take Moore all day; but there are 3 or 4 TE's I really do like. With that being said, I'd bet RG another beer at the Oval Office that Moore is long gone by the time the Packers pick in round 2...lol

I think there is a strong chance we have a shot at Mcbride in R2

Im not gonna bet! I dont feel particularly confident. Skyy Moore is just barely tall enough and has the talent. He could go earlier.

[Joemailman]

Draft order with trade values.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2022/04/PackersWire_TVC_RH_2022.jpg

[Upnorth]

This is a great draft scenario where they trade #22 for 39 and 40.

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1518963358178832384

Would love to get 2 early rd 2 for one of our 1sts.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is a great draft scenario where they trade #22 for 39 and 40.

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1518963358178832384

Pick 40 and 41 and a swap of 3rd round picks. He has us getting the better of the 3rd round picks, but according to the trade chart, we'd be getting the better end of the #22 for #40 and #41 and would have to give up a later round pick (not getting even more value). I'd still do that. I wouldn't take the same players. I have a suspicion that Jones will be gone before #40. There are two great DL prospects in this draft (minus Wyatt because of character issues). They tend to go high. In this scenario I would go:

#28 - DT Travis Jones, UConn
#40 - WR Christian Watson, NDSU or WR George Pickens, Georgia
#41 - S Jalen Pitre, Baylor
#53 - WR Alec Pierce, Cincinnati or WR Jalen Tolbert, South Alabama
#59 - TE Trey McBride

Then, there's good value at EDGE in round 3 (Paschal, Williams, Wright, Robinson) and we always draft well at OL in round 4.

That would be my dream scenario.

[Upnorth]

Pick 40 and 41 and a swap of 3rd round picks. He has us getting the better of the 3rd round picks, but according to the trade chart, we'd be getting the better end of the #22 for #40 and #41 and would have to give up a later round pick (not getting even more value). I'd still do that. I wouldn't take the same players. I have a suspicion that Jones will be gone before #40. There are two great DL prospects in this draft (minus Wyatt because of character issues). They tend to go high. In this scenario I would go:

#28 - DT Travis Jones, UConn
#40 - WR Christian Watson, NDSU or WR George Pickens, Georgia
#41 - S Jalen Pitre, Baylor
#53 - WR Alec Pierce, Cincinnati or WR Jalen Tolbert, South Alabama
#59 - TE Trey McBride

Then, there's good value at EDGE in round 3 (Paschal, Williams, Wright, Robinson) and we always draft well at OL in round 4.

That would be my dream scenario.
This would be solid. Lots of receiving help, solid dt and a good s.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My guys (top prospects who I love or lower ranked prospects who I think are too low on boards)

QB - Sam Howell (I have him 3rd at QB), maybe Chase Garbers (I'd love for the Packers to bring him in as a UDFA)
RB - Breece Hall, Jerome Ford, Kennedy Brooks
WR - Drake London, Alec Pierce, Velus Jones, Mike Woods
TE - Trey McBride, Charlie Kolar, Armani Rogers
OT - Abraham Lucas
IOL - Zion Johnson, Zach Tom, Logan Bruss, Joshua Ezeudu
DL - Travis Jones, Matthew Butler, Matt Henningsen
EDGE - Arnold Ebiketie, Dominique Robinson, Alex Wright, Micheal Clemons, Jeffrey Gunter, De'Shaan Dixon
LB - Quay Walker, Chad Muma, Malcolm Rodriguez
CB - Derek Stingley, Zyon McCollum, Jalyn Armour-Davis, Tariq Castro-Fields, Cam Taylor-Britt (all the hyphenateds), Dallis Flowers
S - Jalen Pitre (I haven't finished my safety board)