Official 2024 NFL Draft Thread

[run pMc]

Gute wasting Jordan Love's prime by not drafting a WR in the 1st round.

MLF wasting Love's prime by playing Rodgers last year lol

Seriously, I still think they go heavy on OL, RB, and S in the draft. If a top corner falls to them in R1 they could even do that. I don't trust Stokes or Jaire to stay healthy anymore, and Nixon is ok in the slot but you can do better there too.

I think in the 2025 draft they should look at drafting another WR in the mid rounds, though. Watson/Doubs will be in their last year, and I don't think they will be able to keep all these young guys. This year has really shown how important it is to have more than one above average receiver -- it's too easy for teams to take away the first read or bracket a WR1. Failing to continue finding and developing a pipeline or quality receiving talent will hurt an offense (and the cap) long term.

[RashanGary]

LFG!! Draft season!!

[RashanGary]

I guess QB, OT and WR go pretty deep. Not the ideal deepest positions for our squad.

S, CB and IOL are also decent from what I read.

S and an elite slot corner would be nice!

[Upnorth]

S cb and ot.

Can never have enough ot.

How about a kicker....

[RashanGary]

Just off my impression from the angles we get on the tv copy, it looked like Rasheed locked down his side. And Tom is kind of a lock down guy too. Who knows how many guys we can afford to pay though. So yeah, any good OL is always welcome. Same for DL. Honestly, same with edge. There are some spots you can never have enough.

Slot corner and safety are big needs though.

[RashanGary]

If we went in the draft and took OT, Edge and DL with our first three picks, even though we don’t “need” them, I wouldn’t mind a bit. Rotating talented DL and edge players is never something that holds you back from anything.

[Bretsky]

LFG!! Draft season!!


yup; what do we have about the 25th pick now ? Maybe we can get the 4th best OT

[RashanGary]

yup; what do we have about the 25th pick now ? Maybe we can get the 4th best OT

Rasheed and Tom are really good. I won’t complain about an OT, but it won’t help us much for a couple years, until we have to pay both Tom and Rasheed.

And it would help a lot with injury.

[RashanGary]

The trajectory of Rasheed Walker is top 5 LT. I don’t think there’s much of a chance we could do any better. Already at 23 years old, neither in his physical or technical prime, he’s a top 10-15 LT. He’s only getting better. He’s at the same point Bakh was at this age. He’s a great player in the making. I have no idea why people want to replace him. I said the same thing aboht Bakh when everyone was trying to get Spriggs in the lineup over him.

The Packers are so god damned good at drafting OL. Pluck 2 in the 3rd and 4th rounds and use the premium pick on a position you’re not as good at filling.

[sharpe1027]

We can use a good player at pretty much any position except QB, long snapper, and punter.

For example, of a good WR drops to them, I say you still draft him. If this offense can make Bo Melton look like a starter, think about what another more talented WR will do.

[MadScientist]

S, RB, CB, OT. I don't think they will go RB in round one, but Jones' health was a problem this year and he is getting old. Getting a good one in round 2-3 would be a good investment.

[Joemailman]

S, RB, CB, OT. I don't think they will go RB in round one, but Jones' health was a problem this year and he is getting old. Getting a good one in round 2-3 would be a good investment.

There are no 1st round RB's this year. The other 3 positions are legitimate possibilities in 1st round. OT and CB better groups than S.

[Upnorth]

yup; what do we have about the 25th pick now ? Maybe we can get the 4th best OT

Nah, we will get the next allpro ot in the 4th, as is tradition

[Upnorth]

S, RB, CB, OT. I don't think they will go RB in round one, but Jones' health was a problem this year and he is getting old. Getting a good one in round 2-3 would be a good investment.

Get 3 in late rounds and hope for diamond

[Joemailman]

yup; what do we have about the 25th pick now ? Maybe we can get the 4th best OT

OT and CB would seem to be best bets at 25, based on the strength of the draft.

[Spaulding]

Guess this means that Cooper DeJean is out of the equation barring a trade up in the 1st. He'd be huge for this defense due to his versatility and playmaking ability.

[run pMc]

They will take a couple of OL - Runyan and Njiman are gone, and Newman probably shouldn't be back. Someone to push Myers, challenge Rhyan, and learn from Walker/Tom. What happens with Bahktiari is a mystery, but that cap number is ouch.

I think they absolutely have to get better at S, and probably LB too. The DL is young and should get better, the rest of that defensive spine needs improvement. Campbell looks done to me, and all they have under contract at S is Johnson Jr.

Dillon is a FA, Wilson is meh, and Taylor was an emergency get. I think they do everything to keep Aaron Jones and add youth behind him. They need RBs who are dynamic with the ball, Dillon's a great guy and a big dude who can wear on you, but his vision and feet aren't what you need in this offense. They can get younger, cheaper and better there via the draft. My guess is they draft 2 RBs (early and late Day 3).

CB is a sneaky need because Jaire is hurt often lately, and Stokes might never pan out after injuries and rust. Corey Ballentine is a nice depth/ST piece, but you don't want him playing man coverage against a starting WR. Nixon's coverage in the slot is uneven as well. I though OT was the most likely R1 pick for a long time, given their draft position I could see them take a CB there instead - to the confusion of many. The whole "you can never have too many corners" thing is cliche but applies, those guys get banged up a lot and you need more than 1 or 2.

[SMBASS]

Guess this means that Cooper DeJean is out of the equation barring a trade up in the 1st. He'd be huge for this defense due to his versatility and playmaking ability.

I'd love to have a shot at drafting DeJean. I guarantee that kid won't drop easy interceptions right in his hands. He's a ballhawk with a lot of experience playing offense and fielding punts. Would definitely add a lot of versatility to what we could do in the defensive backfield.

[Joemailman]

Most mocks have DeJean going 15-20. Missed end of season with injury. Don't know if he's expected to work out at the combine.

[QBME]

Are we locked in at #25 in the first round?

[Joemailman]

Are we locked in at #25 in the first round?

Yes.

[Bretsky]

Are we locked in at #25 in the first round?


I think beating Dallas took us about 6-7 spots back if I understand the positioning correctly

[red]

need to be looking for a safety for sure, hopefully 2

[Joemailman]

I think beating Dallas took us about 6-7 spots back if I understand the positioning correctly

19th if they lost to Dallas.

[Fritz]

I think beating Dallas took us about 6-7 spots back if I understand the positioning correctly

Dammit, Bretsky, you weren't rooting for Dallas, were you?

[QBME]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM

[RashanGary]

Biggest needs:

Safety: I like Savage. The whole defense turned around when him and Jaire got back in the lineup. Owens was ok, but not much of a coverage player. It’s a passing NFL. An elite safety would be a huge upgrade.

Slot Corner: Valentine is a player. With Jaires contract and his proven CB1 play over the years, you’re kind of crossing your fingers. Nixon is a tough guy and tackles well. But his coverage isn’t it. An elite slot corner would be such a big upgrade for us!

Running back: Jones has 2 years, and who knows how many more. He’s just not slowing down. But he’s hurt a lot. We need a guy to groom and a guy to split carry’s.

DL: The hardest position to fill in all of football. There are only a handful of impact DL. Frankly, if there is a guy you think is elite, I think you take him no matter who’s there because the long term impact of a top tier guy beats any other position than QB

OL: we have the QB. We have the skill guys. We don’t have the money to pay our OL. Keep drafting.

EDGE: It’s always nice to have more edge players

CB: never hurts having good corners.

ILB: McDuffie is serviceable. Quay is solid. Campbell has a year left. But never hurts to get better.

QB: Would not make sense at all to take one early.

[RashanGary]

Other than QB, a great player anywhere upgrades our team.

But we need athletic, smart secondary players badly. And a NT too.

[run pMc]

It's BPA all the way, but they have 5 picks inside the top 100 (or is it 90) - thanks Aaron and Rasul - so they should be able to draft some players who can make contributions as rookies.

As I see it, they have needs at: S, IOL, OT, RB, slot CB, ILB, outside CB.
They should bring in competition at LS and K.

There aren't a ton of elite DL coming out, I doubt they take one.
EDGE will be interesting, I think the Enagbare injury guarantees Preston is back but the EDGE class is meh this year too.

Jordan Love and those receivers - if they stay healthy and develop - could be really really good, but I think better IOL blocking and more dynamic playmakers at RB would make them really tough to defend and probably make them a top 5 offense.
They have issues with their run defense and in the secondary. Talent at the safety position is low, injuries at CB are concerning.
Quay is good but I feel like he's misused at times. McDuffie might be better than Campbell at this point in their careers, but I think you can do a lot better than McDuffie. Would be nice to have an ILB with range and top shelf instincts (ability to shed blocks and tackle would be nice too) to pair with Quay.

They are cleaning up their cap but they still won't have a lot of room to work with (unless they redo contracts, which they certainly will), so Gute will have to put together another good draft.

[run pMc]

Other than QB, a great player anywhere upgrades our team.

But we need athletic, smart secondary players badly. And a NT too.

Agree, except on NT. They have Kenny and Slaton. I think they need the youngsters to grow and get better (Brooks, Wooden, and Wyatt). If there's a big dude there like Sweat from UT he could be fun but I don't think NT is the problem. Having 2 DL in nickel and letting the opposing G uncovered and run up into Quay is a problem and that's scheme IMO.

[RashanGary]

It's BPA all the way, but they have 5 picks inside the top 100 (or is it 90) - thanks Aaron and Rasul - so they should be able to draft some players who can make contributions as rookies.

As I see it, they have needs at: S, IOL, OT, RB, slot CB, ILB, outside CB.
They should bring in competition at LS and K..

What are you trying to do with OT? Depth?

80% of first round OTs never become as good as Rasheed and Tom already are. So what are your plans with the high pick at OT? Is this another one of those first round receiver situations where we can have better players but they weren’t from the first round so you’re trying to bring in a first round pick so it feels better?

[Bretsky]

Dammit, Bretsky, you weren't rooting for Dallas, were you?


Well, I'd feel decent about our prospects whether we lose to Dallas or San Fran in a close game.

I was at complete peace with a loss to Dallas and drafting at 19.

After watching how we lost to San Fran I'm not sure I'm at peace anymore

[Joemailman]

What are you trying to do with OT? Depth?

80% of first round OTs never become as good as Rasheed and Tom already are. So what are your plans with the high pick at OT? Is this another one of those first round receiver situations where we can have better players but they weren’t from the first round so you’re trying to bring in a first round pick so it feels better?

Did you see what happened to Packers offense when Tom went out? Lack of depth at OT was a huge factor in the game.

[Bretsky]

Did you see what happened to Packers offense when Tom went out? Lack of depth at OT was a huge factor in the game.

On one hand you are right

On the other hand, if Jordan Love is even average in the 4th quarter we probably win regrardless of whether Tom was in or not

Maybe the increased pressure was a part of that and thow him off. But he missed some throws a QB normally makes and at very very key times

[Joemailman]

With Buffalo loss, we now know Packer picks in the first 3 rounds will be:

25
41 (NY Jets)
58
88
91 (Buffalo)

We know they will also have pick 126 in the 4th round. There is some disagreement on whether one of their comp picks will be a 4th round pick.

[RashanGary]

Did you see what happened to Packers offense when Tom went out? Lack of depth at OT was a huge factor in the game.

Fair enough. But a high pick on a depth piece when we’re consistently good at finding tackles in later rounds….

If you draft a tackle and he’s really good, you want to trade Rasheed after next year for a 1st or maybe 2 firsts if he’s a top 5 guy next year. Then you pay Tom and have 3 more years of a rookie deal at tackle. It’s not bad at all.

But it’s kind of a waste to use a top 26 pick on a backup.

[Joemailman]

Perceived depth in football can change very quickly. Wasn't that long ago it looked like the Packers were set at CB with Jaire, Rasul, and Stokes. Now it's seen as a need. If you have a chance to draft what you think is a great offensive lineman, it's not a bad idea. Having a great OL has been the key to the resurgence of the Lions. It's made Jared Goff a much better QB.

[ThunderDan]

Perceived depth in football can change very quickly. Wasn't that long ago it looked like the Packers were set at CB with Jaire, Rasul, and Stokes. Now it's seen as a need. If you have a chance to draft what you think is a great offensive lineman, it's not a bad idea. Having a great OL has been the key to the resurgence of the Lions. It's made Jared Goff a much better QB.

This! Injuries happen so fast in the NFL. What if we didn't have Walker (who I don't think is a top 10 LT at this point) because of Bahk? You can never have enough depth on a team. You are 1 play away from having to trot out some backup at every position.

[call_me_ishmael]

Defensive back, guard, center, defensive line, line backer, safety, center.

They have some good draft capital and I'd like to see them address the D early. Maybe resign Dillon for cheap.

[run pMc]

Fair enough. But a high pick on a depth piece when we’re consistently good at finding tackles in later rounds….

If you draft a tackle and he’s really good, you want to trade Rasheed after next year for a 1st or maybe 2 firsts if he’s a top 5 guy next year. Then you pay Tom and have 3 more years of a rookie deal at tackle. It’s not bad at all.

But it’s kind of a waste to use a top 26 pick on a backup.

I know you like Rasheed and he's come along nicely, but he still has the occasional brainfart/bad effort moments and they needed to platoon him with Njiman to get his head screwed on.
Next season the depth behind Walker and Tom will be nonexistent unless you think Tenuta is the answer or you want to start playing musical chairs with your other line spots (i.e., move Jenkins).
I guess if Bakhtiari is back and can play most of a season or a full season you're ok, but I wouldn't count on him being on the roster and that's not a good long term answer.
Njiman is good as gone.

If there's a player out there who can start as the swing tackle and push Rasheed to keep improving that's not nothing. I don't think they will be in a position to take a day 1 starting OT anyway, the best ones will be gone by the time they pick in R1. I think they will go defense in R1, either corner or safety.

You need more than 2 OT's. Walker's blocking improved and that combined with their draft position diminishes the need to reach for a T but it never hurts to have another guy developing in the pipeline. Longer term, the contracts for Walker and Tom will expire same year, I am skeptical they will keep both. Some teams fail to draft/develop/retain good tackles and their QBs get stomped. This team is shaping up to go as far and the offense will take them, that means boosting the offensive pieces around Jordan Love.

[run pMc]

They will definitely need to find a tackle who they can plug in there if Walker/Tom get hurt but

I actually think finding a replacement/challenger at RG and C might be just as important if not more than T. Runyan is probably not back, Rhyan may not be the answer and Myers has left us wanting as well. A better IOL would help the run game and an improved pocket for Love to throw from. If Jenkins goes down, who will they plug in? Newman? barf.

[bobblehead]

OL, more OL, sign a safety, draft a RB. Hire Leonhard as DC. Win an Owl.

The end.

[bobblehead]

Perceived depth in football can change very quickly. Wasn't that long ago it looked like the Packers were set at CB with Jaire, Rasul, and Stokes. Now it's seen as a need. If you have a chance to draft what you think is a great offensive lineman, it's not a bad idea. Having a great OL has been the key to the resurgence of the Lions. It's made Jared Goff a much better QB.

As has a run game, which was the real culprit in our loss (and vital to Goff's resurgence). MiLF stopped running from Mid 2nd Q to end of 3rd. I know they adjusted to stop the run, but that doesn't mean line up in shotgun every fucking snap. If they are committing to stopping the run use play action to freeze some LBs.

[bobblehead]

They will definitely need to find a tackle who they can plug in there if Walker/Tom get hurt but

I actually think finding a replacement/challenger at RG and C might be just as important if not more than T. Runyan is probably not back, Rhyan may not be the answer and Myers has left us wanting as well. A better IOL would help the run game and an improved pocket for Love to throw from. If Jenkins goes down, who will they plug in? Newman? barf.

We should take the best OL available unless we have none with a 1st round grade. If its a tackle Tom can slide inside. Thats my #1 choice. Then a DB in the 2nd to go with a RB in the 3rd. Obviously BPA applies if someone stands out. Extra 2nd and 3rd could be damn near anything. But we need a new RG. If we get a new DC and savage can be had for cheap I'll take him back, but we need to sign a stud. That should be the only real FA money spent. The "holes" are RG and S imo. There is nowhere on any roster in the NFL that can't use more young talent after you fill the holes so BPA is the only way to go (just another way of saying what Joe said about perceived depth).

[RashanGary]

The secondary is the clear and obvious part of our team that we need to revamp.

There are guys like Hoodie who value tweener types, but there are a million and one corners in the first 3 rounds of this draft and Cooper Dejean is kind of pidgeon holed as a slot. I think he’s going to drop more than people think.

Regardless of how it goes, between picks 25 and 92 (we have 5 picks) CB is the richest position in the draft in this area of the draft. We are going to get a corner in the first 3 rounds.

Dejean is kind of projects as an ideal slot type. Big, smart, fast enough, can cover tight ends. Can tackle. Can deal with the complexity of inside responsibilities.

I see a few safeties in the first couple rounds….



QB and OT are fairly deep. We could fetch a steal in a trade back with our first round pick.

[RashanGary]

Ravens and 49ers could afford to upgrade tackle. Maybe we get the 31st or 32nd pick and a late second to drop back a few spots.


31st pick
Jets 2nd
Our 2nd
49ers 2nd
Our 3rd
Bills 3rd

6 picks in the top 32 wouldn’t be bad at all.

[RashanGary]

Safety, Andrew Mukuba is kind of interesting.

He’s not big 5’11” 185.

But I like the option to play single high man defense with a center fielder who can contest those boundary throws. He’s also supposed to be an elite cover guy for safety. I think you open up some options to have a few more zero blitzes with him on the field.

Just having the fastest secondary in the league is kind of a cool thing too.
Jaire 4.38
Savage 4.38
Valentine 4.44
Mukuba 3.34 (est)
And for fun, let’s say we draft a speedy nickle too. Oh shit, that’s a lot of speed in the back.

Savage isn’t huge, but he plays more like a strong safety the way he’s best coming down hill. If you’re going to keep Savage, pairing him with an elite free safety type would be ideal.

[texaspackerbacker]

Nobody runs a 3.34 40 hahahaha. I'm assuming you had an attack of dyslexia, as Google says Mukuba runs a 4.33. It also says he is transferring to the Texas Longhorns from Clemson. Did you hear something about him going into the draft?

I've always preferred big Safetys like Owens and Johnson, but a speed guy who can hit would be ok too.

You left Nixon out of your list of speedy DBs. He must be in that range too.

[RashanGary]

I guess Mukuna transferred to Texas so he’s not an option.

Kinchens from Miami and Tyler Nubin from Minnesota seem like the top two safeties.


Kinchens is the elite athlete with some lapses and Nubin is the good athlete with football savvy. I’ve seen way too many physical specimens come into the NFL at safety and completely bust out. If I had to pick one, I’d pick the savvy one who’s less of an athlete. It’s a position where the mental aspect just plays too much of a role.

I think Nubin looks like the best fit. He should be available in the 2nd round.

[call_me_ishmael]

Hire Leonhard as DC.

He took a job at Colorado already

[Joemailman]

He took a job at Colorado already

There were rumors about that, but I'm not sure it's happened. The official website for Colorado football does not list him as a coach.

[Bretsky]

He took a job at Colorado already

I
Don’t think this is true

[Fritz]

I'm just amazed that, year after year after year, when we get to the part about discussing Packer needs, it's always defense, defense, defense.

[ThunderDan]

I'm just amazed that, year after year after year, when we get to the part about discussing Packer needs, it's always defense, defense, defense.

Exactly, I just ran a mock draft on FanSpeak. The majority of my early picks were on defense. Year after year after year, we keep infusing a lot more of our draft capital and free agent signings on that side of the ball and nothing seems to improve.

[call_me_ishmael]

What? That's really weird. I am seeing the same thing. I swear I read the Jimmy stuff was confirmed. What happened??

[Joemailman]

What? That's really weird. I am seeing the same thing. I swear I read the Jimmy stuff was confirmed. What happened??

Don't know how it started. There was this on twitter:



Cameron Lee
@InsiderNoc4527

Sources: Former Wisconsin DC and interim HC Jim Leonhard is close to joining
@DeionSanders
to become their new DC at Colorado. No done deal yet, but it is very close. Leonhard has declined NFL DC jobs, and the USC DC job among others…

It doesn't seem any of the major sports sites reported it.

[run pMc]

Exactly, I just ran a mock draft on FanSpeak. The majority of my early picks were on defense. Year after year after year, we keep infusing a lot more of our draft capital and free agent signings on that side of the ball and nothing seems to improve.

Maddening, isn't it?

I'm mulling the idea that (with a few exceptions) it makes more sense to focus premium draft capital on offense. The rules of the game have tilted considerably in favor of scoring points, maybe it makes sense to lean into that when drafting.

[Joemailman]

Fanspeak:

25: R1 P25 OT Troy Fautanu - Washington
41: R2 P9 S Javon Bullard - Georgia
57: R2 P25 LB Jeremiah Trotter Jr. - Clemson
88: R3 P24 RB Blake Corum - Michigan
91: R3 P27 G Zak Zinter - Michigan
125: R4 P25 S Cole Bishop - Utah

[Fritz]

Position-wise, that all makes sense to me.

But I would not draft Blake Corum. Great college running back, but he's been rode hard and put away wet. Lots and lot and lots of mileage on his body already. And really, I don't think he's special. I don't.

[Joemailman]

Position-wise, that all makes sense to me.

But I would not draft Blake Corum. Great college running back, but he's been rode hard and put away wet. Lots and lot and lots of mileage on his body already. And really, I don't think he's special. I don't.

The draft I did was almost purely BPA according to big board being used. Lot of debate about Corum. Combine will be important for him. What can't be denied is that he has a nose for the end zone. Aaron Jones was far from the biggest or fastest RB in the 2017 draft. Vison is hugely important and not always easy to evaluate.

[RashanGary]

T’Vondre Sweat is kind of intriguing. He’s a massive “Vita Vea” type. He has longer arms and a truly massive frame. He carries that 350 easy.

Kenny Clark probably has two more years of being an elite run defender who can also press the pocket. Sweat also pushes the pocket. But on first down, no one would have the run stopping power in the middle that we’d have with that guy next to Clark. Joe Barry goes from looking like a dumb fuck who doesn’t know how to coordinate a run defense to being a genius who coordinates the NFLs best run defense real quick.

[RashanGary]

Kenny Clark 69 PFF grade
Karl Brooks 66 grade
TJ Slaton 65 grade
Davonte Wyatt 63 grade
Colby Wooden 58 grade but an elite athlete so maybe he develops

We’re pretty deep on effective interior players, but I wouldn’t mind having the deepest rotation in the NFL for a year.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Kenny Clark 69 PFF grade
Karl Brooks 66 grade
TJ Slaton 65 grade
Davonte Wyatt 63 grade
Colby Wooden 58 grade but an elite athlete so maybe he develops

We’re pretty deep on effective interior players, but I wouldn’t mind having the deepest rotation in the NFL for a year.

60 denotes average on PFF’s grading scale. Looks like the Pack have a bunch of average D-Yokozunas.

And I dunno what universe you’re in, but in this universe, Cletidus Clark ain’t no elite run stopper. Teams had little problems running up and down the guts where Clark roamed. Dean Lowry can do what Clark does. Would you pay Lowry $18M/yr?

[run pMc]

Position-wise, that all makes sense to me.

But I would not draft Blake Corum. Great college running back, but he's been rode hard and put away wet. Lots and lot and lots of mileage on his body already. And really, I don't think he's special. I don't.

I like Corum, I think he's a fun back to watch. I agree with you though - he has 700 carries and an ACL injury during his time at UM. I also think he's shorter than he's listed, which could be a little problematic from a pass pro standpoint and with the catch radius trying to grab an off target Jordan Love throw. He's a heck of an athlete and a decent RB for sure, but there are other RBs that on first watch I like better and can likely be drafted later.

I wouldn't be mad if they drafted him, you absolutely have to have him in a RBBC situation.
As for GB's next RBs, I would guess they will draft 2 and let Dillon go. I would also bet at least one is in the Aaron Jones mold, and the other a bigger back -- but not Dillon sized. A 240 lb RB is fun to watch but generally not ideal in a scheme and with an OL that requires more vision and agility than power.

100% with joe about vision - any RBs they take should have good vision, balance, and a lightning quick burst. Of GBs backs, only Jones possesses those.

[texaspackerbacker]

60 denotes average on PFF’s grading scale. Looks like the Pack have a bunch of average D-Yokozunas.

And I dunno what universe you’re in, but in this universe, Cletidus Clark ain’t no elite run stopper. Teams had little problems running up and down the guts where Clark roamed. Dean Lowry can do what Clark does. Would you pay Lowry $18M/yr?

APB, I agree with you on a lot of things - in this side of the forum anyway, but it seems like you have a blind spot about Kenny Clark. He has done a damn good job, and the attention he gets enables others to be better. Hell no, Lowery can't and never did do what Clark does. He got pushed around like a rag doll. All five of those D Linemen RG mentioned are head and shoulders better than Lowery. Lately, having Slaton in the middle on run downs and Clark penetrating more seems to be working better than treating Clark like a big immobile yokozuma in the middle. The way things went in the '22 season when Clark was out says something about him.

I don't like Blake Corum. If he and Braelon Allen are both available, they damn well better not take Corum. We should take a good RB about 3rd or 4th round, maybe even one of our 2nds, but hopefully not Corum.

[SudsMcBucky]

T’Vondre Sweat is kind of intriguing. He’s a massive “Vita Vea” type. He has longer arms and a truly massive frame. He carries that 350 easy.

Kenny Clark probably has two more years of being an elite run defender who can also press the pocket. Sweat also pushes the pocket. But on first down, no one would have the run stopping power in the middle that we’d have with that guy next to Clark. Joe Barry goes from looking like a dumb fuck who doesn’t know how to coordinate a run defense to being a genius who coordinates the NFLs best run defense real quick.

I've thought so, too. I've actually picked him in a couple of the mocks I've done. Looks like he'll be a mid 2nd rounder.

[run pMc]

Wyatt can rush the passer, not great vs. the run.
Slaton can play the run, not great vs. the pass.

If you could combine the two, you'd really have something lol.

Slaton goes 330 and is super athletic for his size. It was his first year as a starter, I think there's still a little room left to develop.

Sweat is a massive dude but seemed unrefined, he'd take some time like Slaton. Guys his size who can play are fun to watch.
If you draft him, do you carry 6 DL on your roster? You aren't cutting Colby Wooden as a R4 pick after one year.

I don't mind Sweat but (not to be a wet blanket) unless there's someone they absolutely love who falls or move on from Kenny they probably aren't going after a DL. In terms of contracts, they are stacked at DL like they are at WR.

[RashanGary]

I went through the background of the packers scouting staff and looked at backgrounds. Each 1 means a guy had that background as a coach or player

Pro scout
OL 1
LB 1

College scout
OL 1
LB
WR 111
TE 1
DL 1
DB 1

Executive personnel
OL 111
LB 1
DB 111
DL 1

[RashanGary]

In order, the backgrounds of our scouts are:

OL 5
Defensive back 4
WR 3
LB 2
TE 1

I don’t know if it means much, but I was curious.

[Bretsky]

Position-wise, that all makes sense to me.

But I would not draft Blake Corum. Great college running back, but he's been rode hard and put away wet. Lots and lot and lots of mileage on his body already. And really, I don't think he's special. I don't.


I really like Corum; but now I'm torn.

With your history of evaluating Michigan players, maybe we need to join forces again :))))

[jklowan]

my way early pridiction.....

25 Kool-Aid McKinstry-CB | Alabama


43 Tyler Nubin-S | Minnesota


58 Jeremiah Trotter Jr.-LB | Clemson


74 Trey Benson-RB | Florida State


88 Kiran Amegadjie-OT | Yale


91 Sedrick Van Pran-IOL | Georgia


126 Cole Bishop-S | Utah


167 Cedric Johnson-EDGE | Mississippi


203 Cody Schrader-RB | Missouri


215Gabe Hall-DL | Baylor


242Walter Rouse-OT | Oklahoma


250 Sheridan Jones-CB | Clemson

[NewsBruin]

It's Senior Bowl week. I just wanted to tell y'all that I hissed at a quartet of Chicago Bears coaches on my way to the office.

[wthigoot]

my way early pridiction.....

25 Kool-Aid McKinstry-CB | Alabama


43 Tyler Nubin-S | Minnesota


58 Jeremiah Trotter Jr.-LB | Clemson


74 Trey Benson-RB | Florida State


88 Kiran Amegadjie-OT | Yale


91 Sedrick Van Pran-IOL | Georgia


126 Cole Bishop-S | Utah


167 Cedric Johnson-EDGE | Mississippi


203 Cody Schrader-RB | Missouri


215Gabe Hall-DL | Baylor


242Walter Rouse-OT | Oklahoma


250 Sheridan Jones-CB | Clemson


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_TTlH62UF4EU%2 FTIJ22RRjFjI%2FAAAAAAAABfU%2FVLms2WsXmPU%2Fs400%2F koolaid-large.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=57c22d3cb427bcf21983b33caa5dac19e82bb976dc2615 a70a02f07e56a41463&ipo=images

Like this draft. Drink the kool-aid for Kool-Aid. Addresses the needs (S, LB, RB),

This article was interesting: https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2024/2/1/24057844/green-bay-packers-jeff-hafley-defensive-coordinator-scheme-single-high-safety-analysis
Seems to indicate need for ILB and FS with cover ability with new D Coordinator.

[Fritz]

I'm looking forward to the Rats' assessments of the safety class this year.

[Joemailman]

I'm looking forward to the Rats' assessments of the safety class this year.

It's generally not considered to be a strong class. Daniel Jeremiah of NFL Network posted his top 50 prospects and did not have a safety listed. Not everybody is that negative but it's doubtful whether there will be one drafted in the 1st round. I've been targeting the Packers early 2nd round pick (41 from the Jets) as the spot where they might take a safety.

Cooper Dejean of Iowa is a 1st round prospect who most list as CB but could be moved to safety. Tyler Nubin of Minnesota and Kamren Kinchens of Miami are guys seen as late 1st/early 2nd round picks.

As for actually evaluating these guys, hopefully Harvey will be checking in as we get closer to the draft.

[SudsMcBucky]

I have routinely picked Nubin in the 2nd round when I'm doing mocks. I think Kitchens will be gone before we even pick in the 1st. If we're looking at a versatile, raw, they could maybe look at that Williams kid out of Miami in the 3rd.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm looking forward to the Rats' assessments of the safety class this year.

I saw "safety class", and my old mind said, what? Did MadTown schedule us for training on not getting carpal tunnel or something from too much typing?

Regarding DBs, if we're playing more single high Safety, you could say there is less of a need unless they decide to end things with Savage. We could use somebody with speed like him and maybe more instinctive, but that's hard to find and harder to be predictive of from college to pro.

When I saw 4-3, I figured no more need for ILB help. But if Hafley actually uses more 4-2-5, we still could use somebody to replace Campbell as well as help at DB. That 4-2-5 sounds more like the kind of shell that we had some success with late in the season.

[Fritz]

It's generally not considered to be a strong class. Daniel Jeremiah of NFL Network posted his top 50 prospects and did not have a safety listed. Not everybody is that negative but it's doubtful whether there will be one drafted in the 1st round. I've been targeting the Packers early 2nd round pick (41 from the Jets) as the spot where they might take a safety.

Cooper Dejean of Iowa is a 1st round prospect who most list as CB but could be moved to safety. Tyler Nubin of Minnesota and Kamren Kinchens of Miami are guys seen as late 1st/early 2nd round picks.

As for actually evaluating these guys, hopefully Harvey will be checking in as we get closer to the draft.

I've read that DeJean actually is expected to go between #15 and 25 - moving up the boards. So we'll see. And yes, I can't wait to read Harv's stuff. He really is knowledgeable and does the homework.

But they're going to need a safety or two. So, here we go, doing the safety dance:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM4okRvCg2g

And let's hope they don't pick the short person.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I've read that DeJean actually is expected to go between #15 and 25 - moving up the boards. So we'll see. And yes, I can't wait to read Harv's stuff. He really is knowledgeable and does the homework.

But they're going to need a safety or two. So, here we go, doing the safety dance:


And let's hope they don't pick the short person.

First, what’s your problem with “midgets?” I, at 5’9”, shutdown the 6’6” Darren Charles. Bob Sanders, Earl Little, Jim Leonhard, Antoine Winfield, among others, debunked the myth about short folks not being able to game.

Secondly, at the barking of Mailman, I googled DeJean. A white corner, eh? Ain’t it racist they keep moving white corners to safety in the NFL? That’s akin to moving Black college QBs as WRs in the NFL.

[Bretsky]

With all you d@m homers in here we NEED a player with the name of KOOK AIDE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Joemailman]

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-q6dGX0y4rtg/U1bspoIH5FI/AAAAAAAAIvw/2c-pIWHKuHw/s1600/green-kool-aidman.jpg

[Frozen Tundra]

It's Senior Bowl week. I just wanted to tell y'all that I hissed at a quartet of Chicago Bears coaches on my way to the office.

Cool. Just so long as you made sure they all know that they still suck. Can't ever let 'em forget that for even a moment, or they start getting cocky like those damned Viking fans.

[RashanGary]

Remember Cullen Jenkins had a brother who was probably a little better than him, named Kris Jenkins. His kid is getting drafted from Michigan this year. Same name, Kris Jenkins.

[call_me_ishmael]

Didn't I just post recently about how Cullen Jenkins seems to have been good enough to live well but not good enough to be spotted by everyone and picked out a crowd? Dude just seems to be living a good life on instagram.

[Fritz]

One of my friends really likes one of Texas's defensive linemen. It'd be crazy to draft one in the first round, but you can never have enough, and if the guy is a difference-maker, what the hell?

[Joemailman]

One of my friends really likes one of Texas's defensive linemen. It'd be crazy to draft one in the first round, but you can never have enough, and if the guy is a difference-maker, what the hell?

There are 2 DL from Texas that are late 1st/early 2nd round types. Byron Murphy is a 6-1/300 lb. 3-tech. T'vondre Sweat is a 6-4/346 lb. NT.

[Fritz]

There are 2 DL from Texas that are late 1st/early 2nd round types. Byron Murphy is a 6-1/300 lb. 3-tech. T'vondre Sweat is a 6-4/346 lb. NT.

It's Sweat that impressed him. Boy, at 346 my friend says he's even got a little shake to him. That'd be a big, quick dude right in the middle to eff up the run.

[run pMc]

It's Sweat that impressed him. Boy, at 346 my friend says he's even got a little shake to him. That'd be a big, quick dude right in the middle to eff up the run.

I'm a fan as well. For a big dude he can move, and he's pretty well conditioned for a guy that size. A lot of C in the league would not be able to hold up 1-1 to his bull rush.
I was skeptical about a move to 4-3, I think it will be a variable front and they more or less rushed 4 last year anyway, but an "official" move to 4-3 makes me wonder if they will look at trying a guy like Brooks on the edge at times and drafting a big dude like Sweat. Pair him with Slaton and you have some serious size in the middle to cover up your LBs. I like it.

Murphy is supposed to be more explosive and a good run defender, which is nice, but given the choice of the two I'm going with the big guy. I think he might develop into a Dexter Lawrence 2.0.
Bigger picture, Kenny Clark is still good but he plays too many snaps. I think they would be well served to rotate more guys in. Also, stuffing the run will do wonders for this team.

[bobblehead]

It's Sweat that impressed him. Boy, at 346 my friend says he's even got a little shake to him. That'd be a big, quick dude right in the middle to eff up the run.

yep, he moves like a LB. Sort of like Aaron Donald does. Obviously not Donald, but also 40 pounds heavier coming out.

[RashanGary]

yep, he moves like a LB. Sort of like Aaron Donald does. Obviously not Donald, but also 40 pounds heavier coming out.

Donald came out 285. So it’s 65lbs.

I watched the highlights and of course he looked good. He was mostly dominating guys much weaker than him. I watched his Alabama tape and they just handled him easily. If he’s ever good, it’s going to be a while because NFL guards can control him.

He’s very slow. He has a nice initial burst, but very slow and doesn’t look athletic running.

Huge guy. Looks the part. Just not a great athlete compared to NFL DTs.

I think he’s going to run 5.0 plus. If he does agility drills, I think they’ll be awful. He has a decent initial burst so maybe he’ll jump ok for his weight.

I didn’t see much more than Slaton to be honest. He’s bigger, but I think Slaton plays with a little more pop and energy against nfl competition compared to Sweats Alabama tape. Honestly, 5th round imo.

[RashanGary]

I think he has a place in the league. Maybe 3rd round actually. Because Alabama wasn’t moving him at all. They were just holding their ground. So he can play the run. He can keep his position and not get moved off the ball. He’s a run defender only.

[Joemailman]

If Sweat wants to be drafted as early as some have him rated, he'll have to convince NFL teams he can be a factor on the pass rush. I saw one site had him listed at 346 pounds, and another at 362. If he's smart, he'll show up at the combine in shape.

Sweat has a pretty good swim move. He's not just relying on a bull rush every play. And he does a pretty good job of getting his hands up to deflect passes.

I wouldn't take Sweat at 25. I'd think about it at 41. I don't think he'd be there at 58.

[run pMc]

If Sweat wants to be drafted as early as some have him rated, he'll have to convince NFL teams he can be a factor on the pass rush. I saw one site had him listed at 346 pounds, and another at 362. If he's smart, he'll show up at the combine in shape.

Sweat has a pretty good swim move. He's not just relying on a bull rush every play. And he does a pretty good job of getting his hands up to deflect passes.

I wouldn't take Sweat at 25. I'd think about it at 41. I don't think he'd be there at 58.

100% agree. I think he's gone inside 50, and I think it depends on his interviews and what kind of shape he shows up in at the combine. Garrett Bradbury can't handle Kenny Clark, imagine him trying to handle this guy. He can bull rush a Range Rover.

[Fritz]

The #41 pick for a guy who will likely play mostly only in base defense, at least the first year, which is about 15 snaps or so a game? I might consider it - defensive linemen make that much difference - but I see the argument against drafting him.

But it's won in the trenches. So that, and another offensive tackle and a guard/center would be okay in my book.

[run pMc]

The #41 pick for a guy who will likely play mostly only in base defense, at least the first year, which is about 15 snaps or so a game? I might consider it - defensive linemen make that much difference - but I see the argument against drafting him.

But it's won in the trenches. So that, and another offensive tackle and a guard/center would be okay in my book.

Fair point. A high pick for a guy who probably comes off the field on 3rd down is not for many teams. I do think someone takes him in R2 because of his size and tape unless he craps the bed at the combine.
It's BPA all the way, they have plenty of needs IMO. (We know they won't take a WR in R1.)

My guess is they go heavy on defense, and that most of their early picks are there. RBs can be found Day 3 and they have a probable starting 5 on OL but need a lot of depth. With Walker and Tom they don't need to take an OT early, wouldn't shock me if they did though.

We know Gute likes players who play/practice well at the Senior Bowl, and we know he tends to draft at positions where the draft depth is good. 11 picks this year - that should plug some talent gaps.

[Fritz]

And as I understand the draft, it's a good offensive tackle class. So I wonder if Guter thinks he can get a fine offensive tackle in maybe the third or fourth round, given the depth.

I've heard mixed reports on the safety class. So I don't know. Waiting for harv's scouting reports.

I do wonder, just because their receiver room is filled with what will be second- and third- year guys, if next year they draft another receiver or two, to cover themselves to losing guys in free agency in the next couple years.

I am hoping for multiple safety, running back, and cornerback picks, with a couple of offensive linemen and inside linebackers. By golly, that's ten picks right there!

[Joemailman]

And as I understand the draft, it's a good offensive tackle class. So I wonder if Guter thinks he can get a fine offensive tackle in maybe the third or fourth round, given the depth.

I've heard mixed reports on the safety class. So I don't know. Waiting for harv's scouting reports.

I do wonder, just because their receiver room is filled with what will be second- and third- year guys, if next year they draft another receiver or two, to cover themselves to losing guys in free agency in the next couple years.

I am hoping for multiple safety, running back, and cornerback picks, with a couple of offensive linemen and inside linebackers. By golly, that's ten picks right there!

It is a strong OT class. Tankathon in their Top 100 Big Board has 13 OT's. 15 CB's. 7 safeties. https://www.tankathon.com/nfl/big_board

In the interactive mock drafts I've done, the top safeties are usually available at pick 41. Top running backs are rated as 3rd round picks.

[bobblehead]

If Sweat wants to be drafted as early as some have him rated, he'll have to convince NFL teams he can be a factor on the pass rush. I saw one site had him listed at 346 pounds, and another at 362. If he's smart, he'll show up at the combine in shape.

Sweat has a pretty good swim move. He's not just relying on a bull rush every play. And he does a pretty good job of getting his hands up to deflect passes.

I wouldn't take Sweat at 25. I'd think about it at 41. I don't think he'd be there at 58.

Agree with this. He has to prove he takes conditioning seriously otherwise he just becomes another fat guy who never realizes his potential. With an NFL weight room a lot of those concerns raised by NC/JH/RG (pick a screen name dammit) go away and he becomes a force.

[Joemailman]

Easton Butler
@Easton__Butler

The Packers met with Texas A&M LB Edgerrin Cooper at the Shrine Bowl.

Cooper is rated by many as a 2nd round pick, although Daniel Jeremiah has him at #20 overall.

[RashanGary]

I like following baseball even though I don’t watch it at all. It’s the math sport and it’s always fun for me to see those math arguments.

Anyway, in typical baseball fashion, some number cruncher came up with the math of how much ground a 4.40 speed player loses by triggering half a second late and it’s much more than you’d think. Bobble sited it one day, applying it to safety play.

The way the math works out, it’s not that first step you’re losing. Both the player who took his first step early and the player who took their first step late had a first step. That doesn’t change. But the player who took the first step early had an additional half second at the end when he was flying 21mph.

Since I don’t have the math in front of me, I’ll punch it out quick.


21/60mins/60secs = .005833 miles. The quick trigger player gains .005833 miles.

When we multiply .005833 x 5,280 feet in a mile, the quick trigger player gains 30 feet in the last half a second where he’s moving 21mph.

Half a second is a lot and it’s not a lot at the same time when you think of Oren Burks. And even if you go down to 2 tenths of s second or you go down to 18mph, you’re still looking at a measurable and applicable number that would apply to the game of football, especially to the positions that cover a lot of ground because the speed at the end is the speed that affects the outcome.


With that said, a free safety who’s playing centerfield would be one of the positions most affected by this math. A quick first step, a fast top speed, a quick trigger time…. When you start weeding out those who can’t hang, you end up with a pretty small number of players who can even do the job. Nick Collins, Ed Reed, Earl Thomas…. There used to be a few, but you’re not seeing much of that lately. I think it’s kind of a rare breed.


Kam Kinchens looks like a guy who might be one of those rare ones who does it all in the outfield. He’s expected to fly in the 40, he’s proven instinctive and quick to trigger in the deep parts of the field. He’s got a thick, durable frame. He’s not as good in the box, so you kind of hate taking more of a pure “one position” kind of player. But if it’s a rare position, a hard to find one, and your coordinator likes to play one high more than normal, maybe you have a high grade on that guy.

[run pMc]

Yeah, that's why you're better off with a player having great instincts and a 4.55 vs. a blazing fast 4.4 guy with no instincts. Hesitation or false steps can be killers.

Halfass's scheme is likely to use a lot of centerfield safety, like a Cover 1 or Cover 3. That centerfield guy needs to be able to cover a lot of ground. Barry was more of a two deep safety guy, demands on the safeties were a little different. My guess is it's easier to find half-field safeties vs. centerfielders with good enough speed and instincts to cover all that ground. No matter what Gute or others say, their draft strategy and types of players they will be looking at is going to change a little. I suspect they are scouting Kinchens closely.

As for Edgerrin Cooper, I heard some media guy say that GB was paying a lot of attention to the LBs and talking to all of them at these scouting bowls (E/W, Shrine, Senior). They absolutely have to get better at LB - Campbell likely won't be back and is old, McDuffie is a nice backup but I'm not sure he can hold up full time (or that you want him to). There are a number of mid-round LBs (including Cooper) who could fit what they want and I think they will take one or two.

Safety and LB are areas they needed to get better at even if they kept Barry. Your defense needs to have that strong spine down the middle, GB is maybe halfway there with the DL and Quay. It's up to Gute to find guys to finish that reconstruction.

[Frozen Tundra]

d
And as I understand the draft, it's a good offensive tackle class. So I wonder if Guter thinks he can get a fine offensive tackle in maybe the third or fourth round, given the depth.

Considering that our two starting OTs are a 4th and a 7th, I think it's likely Gutekunst is confident that he can find solid depth in the mid or even later mid rounds.

What a difference a few months make... it was probably as recently as October when we were all half-hoping we'd draft early enough to get one of the premium tackles. Top 15, but at least Top 20. Now, we're set at both tackle spots, and can afford to draft a prospect who's less polished. Which frees up that 1st Rounder for something more urgent, like a DB.

Meanwhile, I can't get over how many media nitwits with their idiotic mock drafts are still predicting we're going OT in Round 1 because tackle is a our most desperate need. Things like that make it so hard to take any of the mocks seriously, because they clearly know nothing about our team or its needs. They just copy one another.



I do wonder, just because their receiver room is filled with what will be second- and third- year guys, if next year they draft another receiver or two, to cover themselves to losing guys in free agency in the next couple years.

I think it's a certainty, and I wouldn't be surprised if they took one already this year, and wouldn't be shocked if we took two (or at least brought in another UFDA, like Malik Heath). But by 25, I think we'll definitely be drafting 1 or 2 receivers a year to keep the shelves stocked.

Right now, it's like we won the WR Powerball; I think that next year, our receiver corps will rank as one of the top 2 or 3 in the league, top to bottom, and every single one of them is still on a rookie contract. Trouble is, that means they're all going to be due for their 2nd contract (a money contract) at almost the same time, and we're going to lose several of them in a pretty short span of time. If we can keep the position stocked with fresh talent, it'll be easier for us to survive that, and we can trade one or two before their paydays.



I am hoping for multiple safety, running back, and cornerback picks, with a couple of offensive linemen and inside linebackers. By golly, that's ten picks right there!


Perfect! And still leaves one for a kicker!

Seriously, i think by the time Gute is through wheeling and dealing on draft weekend, the number "11" is very unlikely to be the actual number of picks we end up with. He'll probably use all those chips to dance around moving up and down to get maximum value from each one. We could easily end up with anywhere between 9 and 13 picks by the end of day 3.

[bobblehead]

I like following baseball even though I don’t watch it at all. It’s the math sport and it’s always fun for me to see those math arguments.

Anyway, in typical baseball fashion, some number cruncher came up with the math of how much ground a 4.40 speed player loses by triggering half a second late and it’s much more than you’d think. Bobble sited it one day, applying it to safety play.

The way the math works out, it’s not that first step you’re losing. Both the player who took his first step early and the player who took their first step late had a first step. That doesn’t change. But the player who took the first step early had an additional half second at the end when he was flying 21mph.

Since I don’t have the math in front of me, I’ll punch it out quick.


21/60mins/60secs = .005833 miles. The quick trigger player gains .005833 miles.

When we multiply .005833 x 5,280 feet in a mile, the quick trigger player gains 30 feet in the last half a second where he’s moving 21mph.

Half a second is a lot and it’s not a lot at the same time when you think of Oren Burks. And even if you go down to 2 tenths of s second or you go down to 18mph, you’re still looking at a measurable and applicable number that would apply to the game of football, especially to the positions that cover a lot of ground because the speed at the end is the speed that affects the outcome.


With that said, a free safety who’s playing centerfield would be one of the positions most affected by this math. A quick first step, a fast top speed, a quick trigger time…. When you start weeding out those who can’t hang, you end up with a pretty small number of players who can even do the job. Nick Collins, Ed Reed, Earl Thomas…. There used to be a few, but you’re not seeing much of that lately. I think it’s kind of a rare breed.


Kam Kinchens looks like a guy who might be one of those rare ones who does it all in the outfield. He’s expected to fly in the 40, he’s proven instinctive and quick to trigger in the deep parts of the field. He’s got a thick, durable frame. He’s not as good in the box, so you kind of hate taking more of a pure “one position” kind of player. But if it’s a rare position, a hard to find one, and your coordinator likes to play one high more than normal, maybe you have a high grade on that guy.

I actually had no clue the math was out there, I was just running numbers because I have always said the 40 time is way over rated. A guy who takes a good angle runs a RB out of bounce. A guy who takes a bad angle better be WAY faster. I ran the numbers just to make the point.

[RashanGary]

I actually had no clue the math was out there, I was just running numbers because I have always said the 40 time is way over rated. A guy who takes a good angle runs a RB out of bounce. A guy who takes a bad angle better be WAY faster. I ran the numbers just to make the point.

Well, it hit home. There’s a huge difference in a half a second, and the further the distance you’re covering, the worse that half second gets.

Same reason a receiver who runs a 4.55 can easily out perform a receiver who runs a 4.33 if the slower guy is better at inducing false steps in his opponent. The advantage you get from a head start is so much greater than the advantage of track speed. We saw it when Kittle torched Savage in the divisional round. Savage is so much faster in a track meet, but since kittle was already up to speed with his head start, Savage was spending his time getting up to speed. He would have caught kittle eventually because he is faster, but it was too little, too late.

So receivers who can create hesitation in their opponent, out perform “fast” every time. It’s nice to have both, but if you had to pick, you’d take Wick’s crossover, over Janis’ speed.

[bobblehead]

Wicks is channeling Adams so much it hurts to watch.

[Frozen Tundra]

Wicks is channeling Adams so much it hurts to watch.

And a fifth round pick.... :!:

[run pMc]

What GB does at safety will be very interesting. I can't help but think they'll bring in a vet and pair with a draft pick, but maybe that's just resigning Ford? The other thought is they do at S what they did at TE and draft a couple and just roll with rookies and hope they develop. Seems a bit risky to me, so I'd expect them to sign someone.

I like Tyler Nubin, but I suspect for Halfass's D they look at Kam Kinchens. He reminds me of Savage, but a little bigger and much more of a ballhawk. It looks like he could be rangy enough to play centerfield, and he led the ACC in interceptions the last two years. Not sure if he's a better tackler (haven't watched enough tape) and he's a little on the small side for a S, but I could see them spendng an early pick on a safety. In fact, I'm expecting it.

[Frozen Tundra]

What GB does at safety will be very interesting. I can't help but think they'll bring in a vet and pair with a draft pick, but maybe that's just resigning Ford? The other thought is they do at S what they did at TE and draft a couple and just roll with rookies and hope they develop. Seems a bit risky to me, so I'd expect them to sign someone.

I like Tyler Nubin, but I suspect for Halfass's D they look at Kam Kinchens. He reminds me of Savage, but a little bigger and much more of a ballhawk. It looks like he could be rangy enough to play centerfield, and he led the ACC in interceptions the last two years. Not sure if he's a better tackler (haven't watched enough tape) and he's a little on the small side for a S, but I could see them spendng an early pick on a safety. In fact, I'm expecting it.

I agree; I really think we get one on the open market, just for the peace of mind from having at least one known quantity. Drafting 2 and hoping they both pan out is a huge risk, partly pecause safeties tend to take a while to develop. I'd like to see us hit the road running and get off to a good start; a couple losses in September hurt us just as much in the race for home field and even the conferenc championship as losses in December.

If we count solely on the draft, we may go safety in Round 2 or even Round 1, and again 3rd or 4th.

If we do sign 1 free agent (which seems quite likely), we probably draft another in the 3rd or 4th.

That's my wild-ass guess for the day, anyway

[call_me_ishmael]

It wouldn't surprise me to see the Packers identify the next tall-and-thicc ass Oregon DL in the 1st round and pick them. SF has made bank doing that.

[Joemailman]

I keep doing these mock draft simulations at https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-draft-simulator and Newton is available at 25. Thoughts?

25 Jer'zhan Newton - DL - Illinois

41 Kamren Kinchens - S - Miami

58 Edgerrin Cooper - LB - Texas A&M

88 Calen Bullock - S - USC

91 Trey Benson - RB - Florida St.

126 Dominick Puni - IOL - Kansas

167 Jaylin Simpson - CB - Auburn

[run pMc]

I keep doing these mock draft simulations at https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com...raft-simulator and Newton is available at 25. Thoughts?

25 Jer'zhan Newton - DL - Illinois

I'd say he's too small for a 3-4, but he'd be ok in a 4-3. I hadn't really watched him because I didn't think he'd be on GB's list, but he might be now. From what I hear he's the best interior DL in the draft. My guess is he's gone before 25 and Gute focuses on the back 7 of the defense, but you never know.
I like Kinchens and Benson, Cooper looks like a really good athlete, and Simpson is skinny but has some ballhawk and attitude to him.

Haven't really watched Bullock or Puni; I hear Puni has the versatility GB likes and could play G/T. Bullock is rated among the top 3-5 safeties in the draft.

I've played with the simulators a bit and some of the results are flat out unrealistic (Maye or Williams falling out of the top 5, etc.) and I've had to force myself to not accept trades to try to make it more realistic, but I'm encouraged that Gute will be able to find help where they need it.

[Frozen Tundra]

I keep doing these mock draft simulations at https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-draft-simulator and Newton is available at 25. Thoughts?

25 Jer'zhan Newton - DL - Illinois

41 Kamren Kinchens - S - Miami

58 Edgerrin Cooper - LB - Texas A&M

88 Calen Bullock - S - USC

91 Trey Benson - RB - Florida St.

126 Dominick Puni - IOL - Kansas

167 Jaylin Simpson - CB - Auburn

Jeez... seems risky not taking a kicker until at least the 7th, doesn't it?

Other than DL at #25, I like it. You're addressing just about every need, at just about the right point for each one. Until we see what Gute's going to do a month from now when the free aget store opens, this seems like a solid list.

[bobblehead]

What GB does at safety will be very interesting. I can't help but think they'll bring in a vet and pair with a draft pick, but maybe that's just resigning Ford? The other thought is they do at S what they did at TE and draft a couple and just roll with rookies and hope they develop. Seems a bit risky to me, so I'd expect them to sign someone.

I like Tyler Nubin, but I suspect for Halfass's D they look at Kam Kinchens. He reminds me of Savage, but a little bigger and much more of a ballhawk. It looks like he could be rangy enough to play centerfield, and he led the ACC in interceptions the last two years. Not sure if he's a better tackler (haven't watched enough tape) and he's a little on the small side for a S, but I could see them spendng an early pick on a safety. In fact, I'm expecting it.

I've seen Kinchens and DeJean slip into the 2nd. Landing both would be a coup. I can definitely envision Gutes moving up or back from our pick. DeJean can play all over a D from slot to boundary to either S. I think he goes higher than some do just because of that versatility, but if he is available when we pick, pairing him with Kinchens revamps the secondary nicely.

[run pMc]

I've seen Kinchens and DeJean slip into the 2nd. Landing both would be a coup. I can definitely envision Gutes moving up or back from our pick. DeJean can play all over a D from slot to boundary to either S. I think he goes higher than some do just because of that versatility, but if he is available when we pick, pairing him with Kinchens revamps the secondary nicely.

Yeah, if GB landed DeJean and Kinchens without having to trade up, I'd be pretty excited. I've seen a lot of online stuff saying DeJean is the best DB in the draft, period. You can play him anywhere in the secondary.

[call_me_ishmael]

There is a zero percent chance they're drafting a 6'2" DL. They are gonna get longer at that position. They already are squatty there with KC. 6'4" will be the floor going forward I think.

[run pMc]

There is a zero percent chance they're drafting a 6'2" DL. They are gonna get longer at that position. They already are squatty there with KC. 6'4" will be the floor going forward I think.

I'd put it a little higher than zero, but I agree it's pretty low. If there's a prospect who is just too good to pass up (Aaron Donald is 6'1", Jaire is below the Ron Wolf height threshold, etc.) you make an exception.
Is Newton that kind of prospect? I haven't really bothered watching him to say, since I think he's gone by 25 and I don't think they will trade up for him, their interior DL room is pretty crowded.

[SudsMcBucky]

Yeah, if GB landed DeJean and Kinchens without having to trade up, I'd be pretty excited. I've seen a lot of online stuff saying DeJean is the best DB in the draft, period. You can play him anywhere in the secondary.

The only way they're getting DeJean is if they DID trade up. He ain't lasting til 25.

[run pMc]

The only way they're getting DeJean is if they DID trade up. He ain't lasting til 25.

Agree. I don't think he falls to 25 unless he has an injury or a bad combine.
I figure 5 QB and probably 4-5 WRs go in top 25, leaving about 15 picks among the other positions (DB and OL ,primarily) to go before GB picks. I'm assuming DeJean will be gone.

As tempting as it may be, if I were Gute I would be more likely to trade down than up, but that's also my personal bias/preference. It's unlikely there are 25 players with a Round 1 grade, so trading back to pick up another Top 100 pick wouldn't bother me.

Whatever they do, if they have another draft like the last 2 they will have one of the best rosters in terms of good young talent.

[ThunderDan]

Agree. I don't think he falls to 25 unless he has an injury or a bad combine.
I figure 5 QB and probably 4-5 WRs go in top 25, leaving about 15 picks among the other positions (DB and OL ,primarily) to go before GB picks. I'm assuming DeJean will be gone.

As tempting as it may be, if I were Gute I would be more likely to trade down than up, but that's also my personal bias/preference. It's unlikely there are 25 players with a Round 1 grade, so trading back to pick up another Top 100 pick wouldn't bother me.

Whatever they do, if they have another draft like the last 2 they will have one of the best rosters in terms of good young talent.

I still fall into the more picks are better group.

Yeah, high picks are great and have a lower chance of being a bust. I would rather have 11 shots at finding someone than 7 shots.

[Joemailman]

Agree. I don't think he falls to 25 unless he has an injury or a bad combine.
I figure 5 QB and probably 4-5 WRs go in top 25, leaving about 15 picks among the other positions (DB and OL ,primarily) to go before GB picks. I'm assuming DeJean will be gone.

As tempting as it may be, if I were Gute I would be more likely to trade down than up, but that's also my personal bias/preference. It's unlikely there are 25 players with a Round 1 grade, so trading back to pick up another Top 100 pick wouldn't bother me.

Whatever they do, if they have another draft like the last 2 they will have one of the best rosters in terms of good young talent.

He suffered late season injury. Missed end of season. Haven't heard if he'll be ready for combine.

About 1 out of 3 mock drafts I looked at have DeJean available at 25.

[ThunderDan]

I think the Bears were super smart last year trading down to get all the extra draft picks. I would almost trade down again if I was the Bears. Only if I was in love with one of the top QBs would I use my pick on him.

[Joemailman]

I think the Bears were super smart last year trading down to get all the extra draft picks. I would almost trade down again if I was the Bears. Only if I was in love with one of the top QBs would I use my pick on him.

I think the Bears will trade down from 9 to pick up a 2nd round pick. Right now they don't have a 2nd round pick because of the Montez Sweat trade.

[Frozen Tundra]

I figure 5 QB and probably 4-5 WRs go in top 25, leaving about 15 picks among the other positions (DB and OL ,primarily) to go before GB picks. I'm assuming DeJean will be gone.

There's probably going to be a run on tackles, too. Of the 23 teams picking ahead of us, it looks like 5 have a strong need for OT(Houston, Dallas, Tennesee, Jets, and Cincinnati) and another 4 or 5 at least need to get a good one somewhere in this draft. I wouldn't be surprised if 5 tackles go before us, too, and I can only see 2, maybe 3 teams with a strong immediate need for a CB/S. Everybody always preaches "best player available", but when a GM on an early-drafting team needs to win now, strange things can happen.

I'm still holding out hope!






As tempting as it may be, if I were Gute I would be more likely to trade down than up, but that's also my personal bias/preference. It's unlikely there are 25 players with a Round 1 grade, so trading back to pick up another Top 100 pick wouldn't bother me.


That's the way I've been thinking, too. His drafting prowess these past couple of years has put him in the position of being able to wheel and deal a bit, and I honestly feel there's a 50-50 chance we'll all go to bed at the end of Day One not having any idea who our first pick is going to be.

[Fritz]

I keep doing these mock draft simulations at https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-draft-simulator and Newton is available at 25. Thoughts?

25 Jer'zhan Newton - DL - Illinois

41 Kamren Kinchens - S - Miami

58 Edgerrin Cooper - LB - Texas A&M

88 Calen Bullock - S - USC

91 Trey Benson - RB - Florida St.

126 Dominick Puni - IOL - Kansas

167 Jaylin Simpson - CB - Auburn

My thought: WTF is an "IOL"? Inside-outside linebacker?

I also do not think Dejean will be there at #25. Injury or no, he'll be long gone by then. Teams can rehab guys from injury better than they could even twenty years ago. I also wonder if Kinchens will be there at #41. Isn't he the top-rated safety?

But I'd love to pair "Puni" and "Bullock" on the field, next to each other in the huddle. Puny Bollocks?

[Joemailman]

My thought: WTF is an "IOL"? Inside-outside linebacker?

I also do not think Dejean will be there at #25. Injury or no, he'll be long gone by then. Teams can rehab guys from injury better than they could even twenty years ago. I also wonder if Kinchens will be there at #41. Isn't he the top-rated safety?



Interior Offensive Lineman. Center or Guard.

I looked at 20 recent mock drafts. DeJean was available at 25 in about 1/3. Almost all the interactive mock drafts I've done have Kinchens available at 41. But that could change if he kills it at the combine.

[Joemailman]

Packers 1st round picks by position since 1992.

DL (6) 2022: Wyatt/2016: Clark/2013: Jones/2009: Raji/2007: Harrell/1998: Holliday

CB (6) 2021: Stokes/2018: Alexander/2004: Carroll/1999: Edwards/1995: Newsome/1992: Buckley

EDGE: (4) 2023: Van Ness/2019: Gary/2012: Perry/2001: Reynolds

LB (4) 2022: Walker/2006: Hawk/2003: Barnett/1993: Simmons

OT: (4) 2011: Sherrod/2010: Bulaga/1997: Verba/1996: Michels

S (3) 2019: Savage/2015: Randall/2014: Clinton-Dix

QB (2) 2020: Love/2005: Rodgers

WR (1) 2002: Walker

TE (1) 2000: Franks

G (1) 1994 Taylor

[HarveyWallbangers]

There is a zero percent chance they're drafting a 6'2" DL. They are gonna get longer at that position. They already are squatty there with KC. 6'4" will be the floor going forward I think.

What makes you think this? This isn't one of their almost absolutes--like a CB has to be 5'11" with 30 inch arms. The Packers have drafted shorter DL (Raji, Worthy, Daniels), and there's nothing about a 4-3 that would dissuade them from drafting somebody shorter. Some of the better DTs in the NFL that play in a 4-3 are 6'2" or shorter. Aaron Donald is 6'1". Javon Hargrave is 6'2", Ed Oliver is 6'2". Shelby Harris is 6'2", Daron Payne is 6'2", and Alim McNeil is 6'2".

[call_me_ishmael]

What makes you think this? This isn't one of their almost absolutes--like a CB has to be 5'11" with 30 inch arms. The Packers have drafted shorter DL (Raji, Worthy, Daniels), and there's nothing about a 4-3 that would dissuade them from drafting somebody shorter. Some of the better DTs in the NFL that play in a 4-3 are 6'2" or shorter. Aaron Donald is 6'1". Javon Hargrave is 6'2", Ed Oliver is 6'2". Shelby Harris is 6'2", Daron Payne is 6'2", and Alim McNeil is 6'2".

I just think it'd be surprising based on the historic and unusual sizes of the Niners linemen. They seem to grab 6'7" guys from Oregon. Kinda reminds me of the Jaguars two gigantic inside DL from many moons ago.

[sharpe1027]

I still fall into the more picks are better group.

Yeah, high picks are great and have a lower chance of being a bust. I would rather have 11 shots at finding someone than 7 shots.

I'm a fan of trading down if you have several similar graded players and you'll most likey still get a shot at drafting at least one. Otherwise, take a player at the current tier rather than two players at a lower tier.
Especially with how young this team is. We don't need to refresh the roster with youth.

[Fritz]

I'm a fan of trading down if you have several similar graded players and you'll most likey still get a shot at drafting at least one. Otherwise, take a player at the current tier rather than two players at a lower tier.
Especially with how young this team is. We don't need to refresh the roster with youth.

I told a friend I'd like to see Guter draft like it's Noah's Ark - two of everything. Two safeties, two corners, two inside linebackers, two offensive linemen, two running backs.

[SudsMcBucky]

I told a friend I'd like to see Guter draft like it's Noah's Ark - two of everything. Two safeties, two corners, two inside linebackers, two offensive linemen, two running backs.

Will we also have to take a male and female of each?

[run pMc]

I told a friend I'd like to see Guter draft like it's Noah's Ark - two of everything. Two safeties, two corners, two inside linebackers, two offensive linemen, two running backs.

When Gute has tried to address a position, he's done this in the past. I kind of like it - it improves your odds of hitting on at least one of them at that spot. If you're going to do that, it helps if you have more than 10 picks like they do this year.
I do want them to continue to pick BPA, but if they can trade down a few spots, pick up another lower (or 2025) pick and get the player they wanted that's a win.

Don't overlook the time before the draft; Bahktiari will be due a roster bonus, and they'll have some contracts to redo. Free agency will be in full swing and that will shape the board.

I think they cut DeVondre, redo Jones' contract, extend Kenny, sign a cheap vet at S, and then draft 2-3 DBs, 2-3 OL, 1-2 LB, and 2 RB.

Do they draft a TE or a WR? Unless the TE is better than Sims or the WR is better than Melton or Heath, I doubt it. I think they'll bring in a UDFA though.
Curious to know who they bring in to play the FB role. Deguara was meh at it and Pearson looked lost. Maybe Pearson figures it out but I'd expect them to bring someone in.

[Fritz]

Will we also have to take a male and female of each?

Not unless you want them to reproduce. And if you do, it'll be about 22 years before the offspring are ready to play for the Packers.

So, no.

But a couple of unicorns would be nice.

[texaspackerbacker]

Speaking of which, if I was a college team recruiter, I'd have Jonathan Owens and Simone Biles male offspring on the radar from birth.

[Frozen Tundra]

Speaking of which, if I was a college team recruiter, I'd have Jonathan Owens and Simone Biles male offspring on the radar from birth.

Damn, that's a good point. Is it too early to make some sort of provisional selection?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I just think it'd be surprising based on the historic and unusual sizes of the Niners linemen. They seem to grab 6'7" guys from Oregon. Kinda reminds me of the Jaguars two gigantic inside DL from many moons ago.

Two of their current six DTs are 6'1".

[Joemailman]

In this draft the average height of DT's appears to be about 6-3. 6-2 is much more common than 6-6. I doubt teams are real strict about the height of the DT's they draft. It would just be too limiting.

[bobblehead]

The only way they're getting DeJean is if they DID trade up. He ain't lasting til 25.

Every year I see this said about 50 different players, yet in the history of the draft there has never been 50 players go in the top 25.

Joking aside, my opinion is also that he won't be there at 25, but its my opinion. Wyatt and Kenny Clark being available late in the first stunned me, as did TJ Watt. Guys slip, it happens all the time. I respect your opinion, just don't go full skinbasket and state your opinion as fact.

[Joemailman]

Some predictions are where DeJean will go. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2024/cooper-dejean

[red]

Speaking of which, if I was a college team recruiter, I'd have Jonathan Owens and Simone Biles male offspring on the radar from birth.

a sub 4 foot roided up midget that can't tackle?

yeah, i'm sure scouts will be all over that

maybe a scout for a circus

[red]

Every year I see this said about 50 different players, yet in the history of the draft there has never been 50 players go in the top 25.

Joking aside, my opinion is also that he won't be there at 25, but its my opinion. Wyatt and Kenny Clark being available late in the first stunned me, as did TJ Watt. Guys slip, it happens all the time. I respect your opinion, just don't go full skinbasket and state your opinion as fact.

dejean seems to be a second rounder until someone started talking about him being a good fit in green bay, now he's shot up boards and won't be there when we pick in the first

in about half the drafts people say there is no way the guys we want will be there when we pick. then they end up being there, and we pass on them, and everyone on here starts running for the ledge

the team will draft who they want, when they want. just like every other year, there is nothing we can do about it

[Deputy Nutz]

Iowa plays a really heavy cover 2 base, or 2 read schemes. It's their bread and butter. Dejean is more than solid athlete and because he comes from Iowa he is well versed on technique and how to play football. Without a deep dive this draft is absolutely littered with potential at the cornerback position, so trading up doesn't make a lot of sense. So Gutes will probably trade up.

[Deputy Nutz]

What is nice about this upcoming year for the Packers is that they have quite a bit of depth at the WR position, so unless they fall in love with a mid round pick I can't see them needing to draft a high end player at that position. What I will say is that Gutes will take a receiver in the first 3 picks. The Packers also seem set at TE, which is nice, I could see them taking a a hybrid TE/FB in the mid to late rounds though.

The Packers do need to refortify on the offensive line. Tom could be a fixture at right tackle, and Jenkins is great if he stops getting hurt. Bakhatiari is in a bad position and I can't really fault him as he has done everything he could to get back on the field. Even in this day in age knee injuries can be career enders especially for big men. The Packers are screwed with the cap, so the should just hope this last procedure fixes his knee enough that he can play again. Rasheed Walker wasn't terrible last year and really improved as the year went on, but I don't know if he is a franchise left tackle in this league. I think Josh Myers is overrated and I haven't been really impressed with him sense the Packers drafted him. He gets the job done, mostly. Myers is replaceable. The Packers could easily draft two linemen early, a tackle and an interior lineman and I don't know who would have a problem with that.

Packers need to say thanks to AJ Dillon and move on. He is big and strong but doesn't have the balance and the thunder to move the pile on short yardage. When he is the featured back, he is more valuable than when he is sharing carries, but Aaron Jones is just so much better than him that you wouldn't feature Dillon over Jones. The Packers can go ahead and find a couple of late picks in the draft.

The Packers also don't need to take a corner high. A lot of guys got some prime playing time last year and did some really good things. I get that a new scheme is coming in, and that scheme will probably be more aggressive, blah, blah, blah...., very few defensive schemes in the NFL are different. I think the Packers can live with what they have at corner and supplement in the mid rounds. Obviously it's always going to be a coveted position in the NFL.

Packers need to do a better job protecting the middle of the field in the run game and especially in the pass game. The Safety room has to improve and so does the linebacker room. Walker isn't a great coverage linebacker and I am over Campbell, he needs to be replaced. Walker could be a great addition as a pass rusher and could stay on the field all three downs because of it. He is athletic enough to cover backs and TEs in man coverage but his zone awareness is sub par. Draft a LB early on day 2. Draft Safeties like you don't have any.

Edge, Not sure where the Packer have room to fit a high end player at the edge position. I recognize Preston Smith has some salary cap implications, and he is getting up there in age, but he is probably still the best guy in the room. Gary is the most dynamic for sure, and Van Ness is a first rounder that showed his potential as a rookie. Karl Brooks has showed out as a rookie, and Enagbare is a solid rotation guy. Its almost the same situation for the defensive tackles. Clark is an All Pro type player, Wyatt is a dude, Slayton and Slaton are solid, and Wooden has also shown potential as a rotational type guy as a late round rookie. The Packers would just be adding depth and or future potential if they drafted at either one of these spots.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

S’up, Nutz. Still listening to Coldplay and showing “Rudy” to your players?

Nice posts above.

Dejean looks like Josh Jackson from the YouTube clips I clicked. But fuck it, let’s draft a white corner. They’re rare.

[Deputy Nutz]

Coldplay is terrible, and I ain't Rudy.

[Fritz]

Agreed, Nutzy, that offensive line needs at least two draft picks to come in and compete and at least provide depth.

If it's a deep corner draft, which I've heard it is, then a corner or two in the middle rounds would also make sense, as you suggest.

And then of course a couple of safeties and inside linebackers.....

Defense. Always defense. It never seems to stop.

[Arctic Fox]

I think we need to draft a safety and a cornerback within the first 3 rounds

[Joemailman]

I think we need to draft a safety and a cornerback within the first 3 rounds

And with 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds, that will likely happen.

[run pMc]

as it stands now, they need bodies at safety, cornerback, off ball LB, RB, and on the OL.

- they have Anthony Johnson Jr., Zayne Anderson and Bennie Sapp III at safety. Enough said.

- they have Jaire, Stokes, Valentine, and two PS guys at CB. Sure they could sign Keisean, but do you want him as your slot corner? Maybe as your CB5, sure, but after seeing him play slot this year they can do better. Over the last two seasons Jaire and Stokes have missed more games than Christian Watson, trusting them to hold up and play well is folly.

- Assuming they dump DeVondre, they have Quay and McDuffie, and I think McDuffie is more super-sub than starter. I keep hearing Quay is a prototype Will, but don't they have to cover? I'm not sure Quay is great at coverage. I can't help but think they also need a glass eating ass kicker in the middle who will absolutely destroy running backs, but that might be my own fatigue at watching Joe Barely run defense.

- Aaron Jones needs a contract adjustment. Aften that they have nobodies. Jones should be a sparkplug RB2 who get 15 touches a game at most. RBs get hurt, and Jones is getting old. I could see them doing what they did when they drafted Williams/Jones/Mays in one draft.

- As for OL, Bahktiari situation is a mess but he's probably gone. That leaves you with little depth at OT. Moving Jenkins has had mixed results, and that means you're putting Newman in. They might have a starting five with Walker-Jenkins-Myers-Rhyan-Tom, but there's no depth behind those guys you'd feel great about starting if an injury strikes... and it will. Someone on the OL is going to miss a game or two. Protecting Jordan Love and improving the run game should be priorities for this team.

- Those are the areas of need, outside those they could certainly pick an EDGE to hold things down until Enagbare is back. Maybe that's Brenton Cox or Keyshawn Banks, but are you going to go with that? Gute will look at BPA, but I'd expect it will be with a preference to position of need. Regardless, another draft that gets knocked out of the park could set this team up for long term success.

[texaspackerbacker]

You're doing a static analysis. A more dynamic analysis would not assume that anybody who isn't signed is gone. They really ought to re-sign Rudy Ford and Jonathan Owens as well as Ballentine. Savage is not horrible if the price isn't too high. Ditto that for Dillon, and Emmanuel Wilson is not exactly a nobody.

Bakhtiari being gone is a good thing, and we do have 7 or 8 other O Linemen who have been at least adequate NFL starters plus two that were considered decent enough that they lasted the whole season on the practice squad.

I HOPE they don't draft an O Lineman early. We're pretty solid at Corner, although you can never have too many good Corners. I have a better opinion than a lot of people about the Safetys we have, and drafting one high is a gamble, as that is a position where college quality doesn't always translate to NFL quality. We also are pretty solid at Edge Rusher as well as D Line.

IMO, the greatest needs are ILB and RB, both of which usually aren't good positions to draft in the first round. I'd draft one of each of those in the second and third, though - I'm on record as saying Braelon Allen in the third.

There's also the strong possibility we switch to a 4-3 with Halfley.

So what should we get in the first round? I've always hated the idea of trading down, it always seems like an unlikely scenario, but it's one possibility. What else is there? I guess Edge Rusher or maybe a true 4-3 OLB or maybe another Corner.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Coldplay is terrible, and I ain't Rudy.

Terrible is Cletidus Clark’s game relatively to the frogskins he’s getting from the Packers. Clark ain’t no dominator. He’s closer to Dean Lowry than Chris Jones. The hard-on for Clark continues to baffle me.

Coldplay is awesome. Arguably the best band of the 21st a Century thus far.

[run pMc]

You're doing a static analysis. A more dynamic analysis would not assume that anybody who isn't signed is gone. They really ought to re-sign Rudy Ford and Jonathan Owens as well as Ballentine. Savage is not horrible if the price isn't too high. Ditto that for Dillon, and Emmanuel Wilson is not exactly a nobody.

I prefaced my comments with "as it stands now, they need bodies at S, CB, ILB, RB and OL"
that is basically the majority of their shopping list, whether it be via draft, resigning their own, or FA.

I can see a world where they bring back Rudy Ford just to have someone back there. Bringing back Owens and Ballentine are tougher to see. We already know what they are, they don't improve your team. Dillon is a RB3 and Wilson would only come back for competition. Signing vets to minimums will generally cost as much as a last R3/early R4 pick and won't raise the ceiling of your team's potential. You're better off getting younger, cheaper, more years under control with a rookie contract, and with potential for upside.

No they won't do this everywhere, and there is a benefit to having a veteran in the position room, but there isn't a good reason to bring back a lot of these guys (or any of them, really) - you'd be essentially running back a team that eked their way to a 7 seed, and they are chasing a DET team with 4 top 90 picks and 50M in cap space.

[texaspackerbacker]

Here again, run pMc, you're evaluating based on the flawed scheme and likely not very good D coaching in general we had with Barry. I think the personnel we had last year was decent enough - Ford, Owens, Savage, Johnson, etc. at Safety. And Valentine for sure looked like starter quality; Ballentine was at least a quality back up. Keisan should be signed for his returning alone, and he's at least serviceable as a DB. Maybe Jaire got prematurely old, and maybe Stokes is damaged beyond repair, but but probably not in both cases with quality coaching. I'd probably put Corner at or near the top choice for the first round , just because, but not really out of necessity. And like I said, star college Safetys don't translate to being NFL stars in a very high percentage.

I agree with the positioning you mentioned in your first line, just not quantitative like a "need for bodies". A superstar always fits in at the top, but less than that we've already got. Signing somebody like Wingfield - a proven star - would be nice, but probably isn't gonna happen.

We've won a helluva lot of games with Joe Barry's D being a drag on the team, and we have a helluva lot of high drafted seemingly good players. Other than maybe getting a star quality ILB to pair with Quay, I say let's just go with what we've got plus maybe a few mid rounders.

And Dillon and Wilson are very decent in rotation with Aaron Jones. Maybe we've been spoiled to think otherwise. Just the same, a star quality RB, Braelon Allen or otherwise, should be available in the 2nd or 3rd. We should grab one.

And APB, granted, Kenny Clark isn't quote as good as Chris Jones or Aaron Donald, but he's damn close - infinitely better than your comparison to Lowery. I'd really like to see what he can do in a 4 man line with Halfley and surrounded by more quality like we now have than when all we had was pieces of crap like Lowery and Lancaster.

And I hope they at least try to find a better kicker.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tex, the Packers played a tons of nickel, which basically features a 4-men” line. Cletidus made a play once every blue moon. Sucks against the run. Mediocre at best. And Clark is aging in a game where Father Time likes to fuck with players as they age. What makes you think Clark’s gonna be better in Haf-Fucked’s D?

Check out the stats. Clark is essentially an overpaid version of Dean Lowry. The Packers would be better off cutting Clark and paying a mofo ILB or hip-hip safety 18M/yr via free agency.

[Joemailman]

Tex, the Packers played a tons of nickel, which basically features a 4-men” line. Cletidus made a play once every blue moon. Sucks against the run. Mediocre at best. And Clark is aging in a game where Father Time likes to fuck with players as they age. What makes you think Clark’s gonna be better in Haf-Fucked’s D?

Check out the stats. Clark is essentially an overpaid version of Dean Lowry. The Packers would be better off cutting Clark and paying a mofo ILB or hip-hip safety 18M/yr via free agency.

Clark was 9th among DT's in sacks in 2023. His current contract averages 17.5million, which ranks him 11th among DT's. His cap hit in 2023 ranked 10th among DT's. It is set to be much higher in 2024, but will likely be renegotiated.

[run pMc]

I'm not basing anything on a flawed scheme, I'm basing it on who's under contract.

Whether you ignore scheme or not, you probably don't want to bring most of these guys back. Let's ignore defense and consider Dillon. His YPC have dropped every year since he's been in the league, bottoming out this year at 3.4 ypc. WHY would you bring a guy back who has declined year over year and started to show signs of wear this year? Wilson is JAG, you don't need to bring him back and can find someone just as good in FA. There is no reason to bring them back, especially with how RBs are valued in the league and draft. Jones might be the best back in the NFCN, but for a one-two RB punch I'd take DET's pair over what GB had last year.

At Corner - Keisean is unreliable at slot, and he's straight line fast and fearless but he's not a great athlete. https://ras.football/2020/01/05/keisean-nixon-ras/ There were games in the first half of the season where Savage or Rasul was looking at him like WTF are you doing. They may not bring hi back, he had void year money that could have been avoided from kicking in by extending/resigning him.
Jaire is banged up and on the smaller side to play slot, and missed a lot of games. Stokes has barely played and the season prior didn't look great. Every thing Stokes does is based not from good technique but from speed, and he might have lost some of that with all his injuries. Valentine has promise but he's a 7th rounder. You can absolutely get better there, doesn't have to be a starter but you have to get better depth. I like Ballentine as very deep depth but I am telling you he will get cooked in the man coverages Hafley will want to play if he gets a lot of snaps.

I could go on and on -- this roster has some big holes. Other teams aren't going to sit still, why should GB? It's silly to run it back with players from a barely .500 team. Football is absolutely a young player's sport and you have to let guys you might think are good or even ok walk because they will age (or injury) out. They have 11 draft picks, time to use the to replace some of these meh players.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, the Packers played a tons of nickel, which basically features a 4-men” line. Cletidus made a play once every blue moon. Sucks against the run. Mediocre at best. And Clark is aging in a game where Father Time likes to fuck with players as they age. What makes you think Clark’s gonna be better in Haf-Fucked’s D?

Check out the stats. Clark is essentially an overpaid version of Dean Lowry. The Packers would be better off cutting Clark and paying a mofo ILB or hip-hip safety 18M/yr via free agency.

The way the Packers played nickel D in Joe Barry's scheme, it was basically a two man line - two interior D Linemen plus two OLBs not in 3 point stances. That left Clark getting double or triple team most of the time even more than when he was part of the base three man line. Barry's scheme - rotten IMO - mostly used his D Linemen like O Linemen, occupying blockers so that his pet position group, ILBs, could make tackles against the run. They did, often about 6-8 yards into the secondary.

As Joe said (our Joe above), Clark did a good job in pass rush. I suspect most of the 8 DTs with more sacks played in different schemes that enabled DT pass rush better. That, I think, is what we will have with Halfley.

[run pMc]

Barry played scared with his secondary. In terms of the DL/EDGE, I don't think things will change a lot to the casual viewer with Hafley's scheme - he's still going to rush with four. That's what SF and other similar 4-3 schemes do. They'll need different bodies at safety and LB, and play different in the back 7. Agree they were too passive.

Clark makes a lot of money, but I don't get the weird hate APB has. Even an above average DT is going to get paid in the NFL, they are that rare. Kenny can rush the passer AND play the run, that's worth more than a burger flipper's wage. The 38 year old ghost of Calais Campbell made 7M for ATL last year. Kenny plays over 70% of the snaps (too much INO), and he's not 30 yet. They're getting something for their money.

[bobblehead]

Joe Barry was the fat mike of defense. He disguised nothing, ran vanilla D and counted on his 11 guys each winning their individual matchups. In zones he hoped and prayed that teams would make a mistake before they marched down the field exposing soft spots. It was all in the desperate attempt to "not give up a big play". I got news. The other team marching for 8 minutes game time, keeping Love cold and on the sidelines while the D got tired was worse than a big play.

[Deputy Nutz]

The way the Packers played nickel D in Joe Barry's scheme, it was basically a two man line - two interior D Linemen plus two OLBs not in 3 point stances. That left Clark getting double or triple team most of the time even more than when he was part of the base three man line. Barry's scheme - rotten IMO - mostly used his D Linemen like O Linemen, occupying blockers so that his pet position group, ILBs, could make tackles against the run. They did, often about 6-8 yards into the secondary.

As Joe said (our Joe above), Clark did a good job in pass rush. I suspect most of the 8 DTs with more sacks played in different schemes that enabled DT pass rush better. That, I think, is what we will have with Halfley.

Expect a lot of the same front with Halfley. Go on youtube and watch some of the Boston College stuff. He was the head coach not the DC there, but Nickel defense is pretty much regulated to 2 down linemen and two stand up edges. Don't know why you need to stand up Gary and Smith when they rush 90% of the time. Usually putting them up in 2 pt stances means they have the possibility of dropping into coverage, I think Halfley will attack more with 5 man and 6 man pressures where Barry didn't trust his secondary to play man, which is a complete mistake because all these guys can play man, they all got their assess beat playing zone. You might get some mint front stuff out of Halfley, but to think you are going to to see an old school 4-3 Tampa or Chicago defense is a fairytale. You might see it in there base defense, but that will be for less than 20 snaps a game.

Nickel defense is just taking your Strong Side Linebacker out of the game and replacing him with another defensive back. He usually has as much run responsibility as your corners.

[ThunderDan]

The change that Joe Barry made very late in the season that worked against the run and pass that I liked was what I call the Big Nickle.

Regular Nickle:
Gary, Clark, Slayton, Smith Campbell and Walker - Ends played wide and we got gashed up the middle over and over

Big Nickle:
Gary, Clark, Slayton, Wyatt, Smith Walker

When the other team passed, we had a 5 man rush that generated pressure and made the QB get the ball out quicker.

[texaspackerbacker]

(mainly in reply to the Nutz post)

Yeah, probably. I guess the fact is, LaFleur likes that style of D also. So our only hope then is that the new guy is more proficient at executing it and adjusting than the old guy was. I have always disliked the 3-4, and if you get into nickel with a 3 man line - 3-3-5, it's even worse. The most successful games in terms of defense came late in the season when we did play something like that Tampa two or even three deep umbrella D. We stopped the run pretty well in addition to being effective against the pass with that. It's the only time in recent memory where we loaded up coverage in the middle of the field, and there was still enough of a pass rush. But yeah, we probably aren't gonna see that much. As for man coverage by the Corners, yeah, I like that too, but why can't you combine that with the umbrella zone behind it?

Anyway, I guess we just have to hope that Halfley can do it better.

[run pMc]

I also think Barry knew he had subpar safeties and played them extra deep. He was scared about getting beat over the top for a big play. Problem was he played them deeper than he needed to IMO. Also, losing Rasul, and Stokes/Jaire for most of the year made him nervous at corner, the *allentines did ok in zone but when you play a lot of Cover 2 or Cover 4 (or other MOFO variants) you're leaving the short-to-intermediate areas open, and Campbell has lost his speed and Quay isn't the most instinctive in coverage. Rushing 4, dropping 4 deep and leaving 3 to cover the rest is tough and lets offenses dog walk you down the field for 8-10 play drives.

I'm not completely sold on Hafley and wanting to play a lot of Cover 1 - it's going to expose the defense to a lot more explosive pass plays. GB does have pass rushers, so that's the saving grace there. One thing about Hafley based on interviews and all the background pieces coming out is that unlike Barry he seems to be adaptable with his scheme and play calling. Barry was very much attached to a specific scheme and loathe to deviate from it. Hafley has worked in a few different schemes as well which should help him adjust, but I'm taking a wait and see approach with him as DC.

One thing is for sure: he'll need a safety who can actually play MOFC deep Cover-1. The ones who can do it well aren't common. The really good ones are HOF types like Ed Reed, Earl Thomas, etc., which makes me wonder if it's viable to play that a lot (maybe they go Cover-3, but Jordan Love just absolutely roasted Dan Quinn's Cover-3 in Dallas). Hafley is also going to need speed (and instincts) at ILB; Quay and McDuffie aren't enough. Even if they only play 2 ILBs at a time they need a 3rd for depth - Quay and McDuffie missed time with injuries last year, and competition-wise neither player is irreplaceable.

[bobblehead]

The change that Joe Barry made very late in the season that worked against the run and pass that I liked was what I call the Big Nickle.

Regular Nickle:
Gary, Clark, Slayton, Smith Campbell and Walker - Ends played wide and we got gashed up the middle over and over

Big Nickle:
Gary, Clark, Slayton, Wyatt, Smith Walker

When the other team passed, we had a 5 man rush that generated pressure and made the QB get the ball out quicker.

I also noticed Gary and Van Ness putting a hand in the dirt quite a bit down the stretch. He made some adjustments that helped, but it was too little too late. You would always have to fear he reverts to what he likes.

[Deputy Nutz]

(mainly in reply to the Nutz post)

Yeah, probably. I guess the fact is, LaFleur likes that style of D also. So our only hope then is that the new guy is more proficient at executing it and adjusting than the old guy was. I have always disliked the 3-4, and if you get into nickel with a 3 man line - 3-3-5, it's even worse. The most successful games in terms of defense came late in the season when we did play something like that Tampa two or even three deep umbrella D. We stopped the run pretty well in addition to being effective against the pass with that. It's the only time in recent memory where we loaded up coverage in the middle of the field, and there was still enough of a pass rush. But yeah, we probably aren't gonna see that much. As for man coverage by the Corners, yeah, I like that too, but why can't you combine that with the umbrella zone behind it?

Anyway, I guess we just have to hope that Hafley can do it better.

Packers need to upgrade their safeties. No doubt about it and that frees up your defense quite a bit. If the Packers trust their 3T or 4is to pass rush as effectively as their edge rushers I am all for it. I think Walker is best when he is pressing the LOS. They could play a few versions of 2 man if the corners lock down #1 to their side and then have deep 1/2 coverage by their safeties. I would think Hafley will bring some exotics in 5 and 6 man pressures, and most likely play a lot of cover 1 behind it. There could also be a lot of man-match coverages as well.

It's really hard in the college game, and in the NFL to hold offenses back with 7 guys in the run fit and max fitting it. The RPO game especially in college and in high school is making it hard to play a 3-4 with your OLBs in an apex alignment with a slot to their side. you are most likely playing a 6 man box and your extra fitter has to be a safety. instead of putting your OLB in conflict, you make your safety the conflict player in the RPO game because they are usually playing everything from top down.

[Fritz]

Holy shit Nutzy. You are like the fucking nuclear physicist of high school coaches.

[Deputy Nutz]

Holy shit Nutzy. You are like the fucking nuclear physicist of high school coaches.

Professional sports is the last to adapt to new ideas because of the talent and changing scheme could result in getting fired from a multi million dollar contract. I would say most coaches at the high school level adapt to what is happening at the college level. College level ball still has to adapt to talent gaps so you see some really innovative offenses and defenses, that you can hopefully simplify to the high school game. Adapt or die.

[Fritz]

Professional sports is the last to adapt to new ideas because of the talent and changing scheme could result in getting fired from a multi million dollar contract. I would say most coaches at the high school level adapt to what is happening at the college level. College level ball still has to adapt to talent gaps so you see some really innovative offenses and defenses, that you can hopefully simplify to the high school game. Adapt or die.

So nobody’s running the Wing T on offense these days . . . .


So college ball is where most of the innovation is happening? Interesting. Makes sense, too.

[Deputy Nutz]

So nobody’s running the Wing T on offense these days . . . .


So college ball is where most of the innovation is happening? Interesting. Makes sense, too.

Gus Mahlzan's offense is based off the Wing T. The Wing T has a lasting impact on just about every level of football. Buck sweep which was the bread and butter of Wing T teams is now getting run as pin/pull with back side RPO glance routes or a slant over the backside linebacker. Buck Sweep can now be run with a read scheme to the backside giving the QB read responsibility for a 4 tech or defensive end. You still see belly and trap at all levels, you certainly see jet sweep. What you don't see is traditional Wing T formations with two backs and a wing. The QB replaces a lot of what the traditional fullback would do.

There is only so many types of run schemes you can create. The real magic is with formations, personnel, and motions to either out number the defense, or dress it up to create confusion. Same can be said for defensive football. You create more hybrid positions so that more guys can insert and more guys can drop into coverage regardless of traditional position assignments. You never want to put yourself in a situation where a defensive end is trying like hell to run man on a WR, but you can blend Fire Zone concepts all day long.

[texaspackerbacker]

I have often wondered why nobody wants to go back to the old split backs thing - Taylor and Hornung, Anderson and Grabowski, etc. instead of using a mostly useless plug of a fullback and just one RB on the field who is actually capable of a worthwhile run. That sort of thing would also be more beneficial for using backs as receivers and probably would be at least as effective for pass blocking. There seem to be more and more top quality RBs coming out of college all the time also. I've always favored a pass first/run mainly as a counter threat, but regardless, I like the idea of having Aaron Jones and another equal or close to it threat on the field a large share of the time - as much as when we use an I formation now or more.

[Fritz]

I have often wondered why nobody wants to go back to the old split backs thing - Taylor and Hornung, Anderson and Grabowski, etc. instead of using a mostly useless plug of a fullback and just one RB on the field who is actually capable of a worthwhile run. That sort of thing would also be more beneficial for using backs as receivers and probably would be at least as effective for pass blocking. There seem to be more and more top quality RBs coming out of college all the time also. I've always favored a pass first/run mainly as a counter threat, but regardless, I like the idea of having Aaron Jones and another equal or close to it threat on the field a large share of the time - as much as when we use an I formation now or more.

This is a case in which I can say I have wondered the same thing, Tex.

So . . . . Dr. Nutzy, for what reasons is this not happening? Too much invested in the run and not the forward pass?

[sharpe1027]

This is a case in which I can say I have wondered the same thing, Tex.

So . . . . Dr. Nutzy, for what reasons is this not happening? Too much invested in the run and not the forward pass?

My guess is that it is generally favored to have two TEs and one deep RB when they want a formation with good run pass balance.

[Deputy Nutz]

This is a case in which I can say I have wondered the same thing, Tex.

So . . . . Dr. Nutzy, for what reasons is this not happening? Too much invested in the run and not the forward pass?

Specialization. In the 80s Auburn decided to break from the wishbone so that they could feature Bo Jackson. Nebraska broke from the wishbone in the 90s to feature their I backs instead of their fullbacks. Ask the bigger guy to focus on blocking, and ask the more athletic guy to run the damn ball 35 times a game. Again, I would say it started in college, to recruit Eric Dickerson, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders, and even guys like Ahman Green you needed to draw them to your school and to do that you needed to have a featured back. You didn't really ask them to block unless it was pass pro. So featured backs began to lose the skill of run blocking. Featured backs in the NFL became expensive, a luxury item, they were well paid and you weren't going to take carries away from your highest paid offensive weapon. Also, you couldn't afford two of those guys in your backfield. The last time I can even think of having two Hall of Fame type backs in the same backfield was Jackson and Allen with the Raiders, and I can't remember if they used both at the same time.

You also had the advent of the West Coast offense which changed how the game of football was played, especially in the NFL. You still had two back sets and the fullback was still primarily utilized as a blocker, but they had to catch the ball out of the backfield just as well if not better than your featured back. Then as the West Coast offense began to meld with the Air Raid, fullbacks became H-backs or Y-off players. they aligned in such a way that there was never a real threat they were going to get the hand off out of the backfield. It's gotten to the point where the fullback has morphed with the tight end position.

Now teams have taken offenses like the aforementioned Wing T and have customized it for todays game. You have replaced the fullback trap with QB trap, you have replaced FB power with QB power, you have replaced Belly with QB Belly, and Buck sweep with Pin and Pull. You have replaced wishbone Triple option with RPOs, Zone Read, and Power read. There is only so many ways you can stretch a defense. unless the field gets wider, or you add or subtract players the confines of the game are the same.

Some coach will start working two backs into the backfield at some point, he will start giving the ball equally to both backs and he will be heralded as an inventor when in reality he is just a thief. In football their is nothing wrong with being a thief, its how the game works.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Nice post, Nutz. I must admit, I ain’t got a fucking clue what “Belly”, “Buck Sweep” and “Pin and Pull” pertain to.

I’m somewhat surprised that with the RB positions becoming less and less valuable as the years roll by, the “Pistol Force” offense - 0 RB, 2 TE, 3 WR formation - ain’t currently the fab.

[The Shadow]

In trying to assemble likely Gutey picks from the PFF draft sim, I am paying a lot of attention to the ages of the prospects - and wondering how much weight he places on that factor. I don't see him picking the 23+ & 24 year old guys.

[The Shadow]

And : some players, like Kris Jenkins & Frank Gore Jr., keep magically appearing in likely Pack drafting spots.

[Joemailman]

In trying to assemble likely Gutey picks from the PFF draft sim, I am paying a lot of attention to the ages of the prospects - and wondering how much weight he places on that factor. I don't see him picking the 23+ & 24 year old guys.

I believe he generally doesn't although Devonte Wyatt was a notable exception.

[KYPack]

Nice post, Nutz. I must admit, I ain’t got a fucking clue what “Belly”, “Buck Sweep” and “Pin and Pull” pertain to.

I’m somewhat surprised that with the RB positions becoming less and less valuable as the years roll by, the “Pistol Force” offense - 0 RB, 2 TE, 3 WR formation - ain’t currently the fab.

Trying to lie your way in thru the back door, eh Tank?

Forces have nothing to do with offensive schemes.

They are responsibilities on defense.

BC you never played, you don't know that.

[run pMc]

NIL and COVID year eligibilty is giving players the chance to play 5 or 6 years and get paid. Until the COVID eligibility unwinds completely you'll see more 23 year old rookies.
The NIL is interesting as well, since it often means players stay in school an extra year or even two.

I still think CFB is a mess right now, and would be very skeptical of 23 year olds who suddenly have great senior years.
Why wouldn't they? They're grown men playing against 19 and 20 year olds!

If given the choice, Gute will lean younger, but I don't think he's going to remove a player from the board if age is the only issue. As mentioned previously, Wyatt was old AND had a red flag for a domestic, and they still took him.

If you assume they hit their physical peak at 26 or 27, you have a potentially longer upside with a 21 year old rookie than a 24 year old. That's what makes guys like LVN interesting, and why Kenny Clark has been in the league forever.

[run pMc]

You also had the advent of the West Coast offense which changed how the game of football was played, especially in the NFL. You still had two back sets and the fullback was still primarily utilized as a blocker, but they had to catch the ball out of the backfield just as well if not better than your featured back. Then as the West Coast offense began to meld with the Air Raid, fullbacks became H-backs or Y-off players. they aligned in such a way that there was never a real threat they were going to get the hand off out of the backfield. It's gotten to the point where the fullback has morphed with the tight end position.

KUUUUHHHHNN

Or Henderson.

I always enjoyed how the 49ers used Tom Rathman, that dude could run block and catch. Just a swiss army knife kind of guy.

Good post Nuts.

[texaspackerbacker]

I've never liked I formation, and I've never liked using fullbacks. Yeah, I also think somebody is gonna go back to split backs, and it will be seen as a great innovation, and it will work, maybe even better than it did back in the day because so many teams' Ds are geared to stop the increased passing game. Kind of a back door to split backs, though, and maybe even a better way to go is using a lot of WR runs - Jayden Reed or whoever in the case of the Packers.

We ought to have both things in the arsenal. Jones and Dillon as split backs would work, but not as good IMO as Jones and somebody faster and shiftier. I'm hoping to get that in about the 3rd round (give or take one round). And I'm still thinking Braelon Allen might be that guy. If age is a concern, he's what? 20 now?

[Fritz]

Run's post:

KUUUUHHHHNN

Or Henderson.

I always enjoyed how the 49ers used Tom Rathman, that dude could run block and catch. Just a swiss army knife kind of guy.

Good post Nuts.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it's like taking a master class. I especially appreciate it because while I followed the game through the evolution of the West Coast offense, I lost the same level of interest and so did not understand what happened to fullbacks - until I read Nutzy's post. The last several posts of this thread, mebbe outside of Tank's, have all been good - educational for me, thoughtful. This is Packerrats at its best.

So how can I fuck this up?

[Joemailman]

Didn't Joe Gibbs create the H-back position to be in a better position to block Lawrence Taylor?

[NewsBruin]

I remember in the late 90s, the Packers were hyping a Bennett/Levens or Levens/Green split backfield package, but I don't remember much special coming out of it.

(As I obviously can't even remember who the combination was.)

[Joemailman]

Max Melton, a Rutgers CB who is seen as a likely 3rd round pick, is the brother of the Packers Bo Melton.

Payton Wilson, a NC State LB who is a likely 2nd round pick is the brother of the Brewers Bryse Wilson.

[Joemailman]

Matt Schneidman
@mattschneidman

Cooper DeJean said his college teammate Lukas Van Ness has given him good insight during the pre-draft process.

“It’d be cool to play with Lukas again, for sure. I love my Iowa guys. He was a great teammate to play with. Just an absolute freak.”



Dan Parr
@TheDan_Parr

Iowa CB Cooper DeJean not working out at NFL Scouting Combine but says he plans to work out at some point before draft, although probably not at Iowa’s pro day. Working his way back from broken fibula suffered in November. Started running full speed last week.

DeJean did mention he's met with Steelers a couple of times. Lot of mock drafts have Steelers taking him at #20.

[Deputy Nutz]

Didn't Joe Gibbs create the H-back position to be in a better position to block Lawrence Taylor?

yes in a way, move the FB up and over to try and stall the pass rush soon rather than having Taylor destroy a FB/HB 4 yards behind the LOS.

The Y-off has become popular even more popular than using an in line TE. You get the best of both worlds now whether its in the passing game, zone scheme, or gap scheme. They can pull across the formation for a split zone scheme, zone insert scheme, and in gap schemes like GY/GH counter. The flexibility with the Y-off could be considered a small evolution in offensive football.

[Deputy Nutz]

I remember in the late 90s, the Packers were hyping a Bennett/Levens or Levens/Green split backfield package, but I don't remember much special coming out of it.

(As I obviously can't even remember who the combination was.)
It was Bennett and Levens. Both were bigger backs, and Bennett actually was drafted and used by the Packers as a FB. They pretty much split carries in 1996, and they were set to be a two headed monster in the run game the next year and Bennett tore his Achilles Tendon in the first preseason game. I don't know how much they would be used together as William Henderson was a dude at FB.

[Deputy Nutz]

DeJean did mention he's met with Steelers a couple of times. Lot of mock drafts have Steelers taking him at #20.

A lot of Cover 2 with DeJean at Iowa. he is physical and aggressive and would fit what the Steelers want in a player. Off the top of my head I am not sure how much Cover 2/2 Read gets played by Steelers.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Yo Nutz, what’s your take on J-Love? Do you think he’s a phony like your pal Skinbasket does?

[Deputy Nutz]

Yo Nutz, what’s your take on J-Love? Do you think he’s a phony like your pal Skinbasket does?

The Dallas game was a thing a of Beauty, the Niners' game was awful. His play down the stretch of the regular season was pretty damn good with pocket awareness, footwork, and especially his timing and accuracy. Things that you all might not notice is his ability or lack of ability to set protections and pre-snap identifications of where the pressure should be coming from. All these thing are not talent based but are acquired through time and experience. He has to protect himself better and set up his hot routes when expecting blitz.

I would sign him to a 9 figure deal soon. He made a bunch of 22 year old receivers look like All-Pros down the stretch.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

The Dallas game was a thing a of Beauty, the Niners' game was awful. His play down the stretch of the regular season was pretty damn good with pocket awareness, footwork, and especially his timing and accuracy. Things that you all might not notice is his ability or lack of ability to set protections and pre-snap identifications of where the pressure should be coming from. All these thing are not talent based but are acquired through time and experience. He has to protect himself better and set up his hot routes when expecting blitz.

I would sign him to a 9 figure deal soon. He made a bunch of 22 year old receivers look like All-Pros down the stretch.

Good take. Love can still get better. Hopefully he ain’t a one-hit wonder.

[Fritz]

Let's hope he's more like Stevie Wonder.

[Joemailman]

Sweat at 366 pounds ran a 5.27 forty.

[Joemailman]

Best 40 times by DL.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHiGXjObcAAmUS4?format=jpg&name=small

[Fritz]

Sweat at 366 pounds ran a 5.27 forty.

But did he . . . Sweat?

[Joemailman]

LB Payton Wilson, a likely 2nd round pick, ran a 4.44 40. Quay Walker, by comparison ran a 4.52

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm just not into the draft this year. IDK why. Give me some big uglies that can play ball and I'm good.

[Deputy Nutz]

LB Payton Wilson, a likely 2nd round pick, ran a 4.44 40. Quay Walker, by comparison ran a 4.52

I don't know about him. I would like to think he is Luke Kuechly but he is not close to that level.
Coming off a ACL injury in 2022. He is smooth and I think his pass coverage is decent, but he is not a downhill impact guy from the one game I have watched from him.

[jklowan]

I don't know about him. I would like to think he is Luke Kuechly but he is not close to that level.
Coming off a ACL injury in 2022. He is smooth and I think his pass coverage is decent, but he is not a downhill impact guy from the one game I have watched from him.

What LB's do you like?

[Joemailman]

This is not a strong LB group. Quite possible none get drafted in 1st round, although some like Cooper. PFF has only 2 ranked in top 60. Daniel Jeremiah has 3 ranked in his top 50.

[run pMc]

Payton Wilson scares the hell out of me. Love his motor and athleticism, but that injury history is not great. He's old and has had something like 2 or 3 season enders - having shoulder injuries for a LB who will turn 24 is not good. Runs around a bit like a headless chicken at times, and yet in 3 years time could be the best of the LBs in this draft.

Currently watching Cedric Grey, and he's... ok. Probably not super athletic but might be able to do the job. I have to get into the mindset of how Hafley will use LBs, it will be different from Barry. Also, curious to see where they put Quay, and whether he's a Will, Mike or Sam. (Probably Will? Dunno.)

Cooper seems to be the consensus top LB, pretty athletic and fast. Agree it's not a strong draft for LB and a few other areas of need for GB. Makes me think they will dip into FA waters for some veterans AND add competition via draft. Either way, they flat out need bodies at LB and S so they have to do something.

[Deputy Nutz]

What LB's do you like?

Packers need coverage at the linebacker position more than anything else. Colson from Michigan isn't a terrible option.

[Joemailman]

I'm just not into the draft this year. IDK why. Give me some big uglies that can play ball and I'm good.

My interest is down a little bit. I think it's because I think the Packers 2 biggest needs are safety and linebacker and I don't see any 1st round prospects at those positions. I think they'll go CB or OT in 1st round and I'll probably be ok with whoever they pick.

Day 2 could be interesting though with the Packers as of now having 4 picks.

[Joemailman]

Kamren Kinchens ran 4.65 40. Worst among safeties.

[Fritz]

Ouch. I heard one of the better CB’s also tested poorly. From Missouri or Mississippi?

[Joemailman]

Ouch. I heard one of the better CB’s also tested poorly. From Missouri or Mississippi?

Ennis Rakestraw of Missouri was just average. Not terrible. Most players are skipping the agility drills, so don't know if the testing means as much as it used to.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHnO6_vXEAAFp68?format=jpg&name=small

[Bretsky]

i heard a former Badger RB just killed it at the combine

[Joemailman]

i heard a former Badger RB just killed it at the combine

Draft sites had him as a guy unlikely to be drafted. Will be interesting to see how much that changes.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHsIVhAWwAAW683?format=jpg&name=small

[Joemailman]

Hogg
@HoggNFL

The Packers met formally with Duke OL Graham Barton.

“I think I’m ready to play all 5 [positions]”

We know Gutey likes his athletic linemen who can play multiple positions. Barton is a name to keep an eye on

Rankings
• PFN: 25th ovr
• PFF: 26th ovr

I think Gute would have to believe Barton would have to be able to play OT to have a 1st round grade on him. Would probably not hesitate if he fell to 41.

[Bretsky]

Draft sites had him as a guy unlikely to be drafted. Will be interesting to see how much that changes.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHsIVhAWwAAW683?format=jpg&name=small



was really bummed with he left UW Madison as he would have been HUGE for us last year

But he was buried behind 2 RB's.

I'd take him as a late pick in a second

[bobblehead]

Max Melton, a Rutgers CB who is seen as a likely 3rd round pick, is the brother of the Packers Bo Melton.

Payton Wilson, a NC State LB who is a likely 2nd round pick is the brother of the Brewers Bryse Wilson.

Max put up a really good combine. Something like a 9.6 RAS. Probably moved him up a bit, but then again, this draft is CB deep so maybe he could still be had in the 3rd.

[bobblehead]

Kamren Kinchens ran 4.65 40. Worst among safeties.

Overall RAS of 2.11

There goes one of my draft crushes. I fully expect Jordan Morgan to shit the bed today.

[run pMc]

Really surprised Kinchens time was that slow. He doesn't play slow.
Tyler Nubin is probably Safety 1 now; Javon Bullard might be #2.

Calen Bullock scares me. Ballhawk with range who looks like he hates to tackle.

Would not be shocked if GB signs a S in FA. Last year's safety class was worse, but this year's isn't exactly looking like an all-timer.

[Joemailman]

Really surprised Kinchens time was that slow. He doesn't play slow.
Tyler Nubin is probably Safety 1 now; Javon Bullard might be #2.

Calen Bullock scares me. Ballhawk with range who looks like he hates to tackle.

Would not be shocked if GB signs a S in FA. Last year's safety class was worse, but this year's isn't exactly looking like an all-timer.

I'll be surprised if they DON"T sign a safety in FA. Strong safety class in FA. Weak class in draft.

[call_me_ishmael]

They're saying this is an elite WR and OT draft. Draft an OT in R1 and move on from the big fella.

[Joemailman]

None of the previously highest rated safeties are in this group. Tyler Nubin did not work out at the combine.


Below, you will find all of the safeties who registered a RAS of at least 8.0 at this year’s Combine.

Ryan Watts, Texas: 9.84
Cole Bishop, Utah: 9.81
Dominique Hampton, Washington: 9.73
Jaylon Carlies, Missouri: 9.50
Isaiah Johnson, Syracuse: 9.13
Marcellas Dial, South Carolina: 8.93
Dadrion Taylor-Demerson, Texas Tech: 8.87
Jaylin Simpson, Auburn: 8.76
Millard Bradford, TCU: 8.32
Jaylen Key, Alabama: 8.25
Kitan Oladapo: Oregon State: 8.23

[Joemailman]

Tanor Bortolini of Wisconsin had the best 3-cone time ever for a Center at the combine. Projected 4th round pick.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHx6-yfWYAEBZKw?format=jpg&name=medium

[call_me_ishmael]

^ Would love to draft that dude and part ways with Myers after this year if he doesn't absolutely blow the roof off.

[texaspackerbacker]

Wow, Bortolini who was barely a first stringer? the guy who snapped bloopers to the QB most of the time? Come on! That sure doesn't say much for this RAS thing.

[Joemailman]

Wow, Bortolini who was barely a first stringer? the guy who snapped bloopers to the QB most of the time? Come on! That sure doesn't say much for this RAS thing.

That's a technique thing that can likely be improved with coaching. And if not, his athleticism could give him a chance at Guard.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good Point. I noticed, though, that there was no bench press listed. Theoretically, he could be 6'4 and 303 with a pot belly and very little of the most important quality for an O Lineman, strength. I say that as somebody who was exactly the same height and weight as Emmett Smith in his prime. Of course my 40 time wasn't quite as good. Stats can be deceiving.

Guerendo above, who had really great straight line speed, conveniently had no scores for agility.

I tend to think observation is a better predictor.

[Deputy Nutz]

Gute loves his super RAS score guys. That is a fact. When the RAS box goes unchecked it's can be a dud, and Gute has a strategy. I don't really blame him. I like Guerendo, He was always the third guy on the depth chart for the Badgers but always managed to find his carries when he was in Madison. I also remember him getting injured often enough where he wasn't a sure thing. He wasn't a full time guy at Louisville either. He will get drafted, probably ahead of Allen which in all honesty he should.

Speaking of Allen, He was supposed to crush the combine. All we heard about him was his crazy weight room strength and his crazy speed for his size. He did 25 reps of 225. I sort of expected mid thirties from the guy. He did not run the 40 and his broad jump was short of ten. I wouldn't draft him if I was a GM that needed a running back, he has trouble reading space and getting down hill in a timely fashion. For his size he doesn't move the pile and in my opinion doesn't run aggressively enough. Reminds me of a Najee Harris type of back, big and athletic but not a gifted runner.

[Deputy Nutz]

Obviously WR made a lot of noise at the combine this year. I am sure that means an added one or two go in the first round this year. I would assume the Packers would not be interested in drafting a WR in the first couple of rounds. I would assume this could make several offensive linemen, safeties, corners, and defensive linemen available.

Defensive Backs

Quinyon Mitchell was a CB that might have had an opportunity to fall to the Packers will most likely be the first or second corner taken in this draft. He had a great senior bowl, and phenomenal combine. He might go in the top ten.

Nate Wiggins is also a CB that had a really good combine clocking 4.28 in the forty and basically checking the boxes on the rest of the workout. He is tall and too lean at 173 pounds. NFL receiver could bully him. I am not sure the Packers will have an opportunity to draft him.

Max Melton, a CB who also had himself a day at the combine. Yes he is the brother of Bo. Max is probably still a second day pick, but has put himself in conversation to be picked in the 30-40 range.

Kool-Aid didn't participate. I like his skill set better than Terron Arnolds. Arnold ran an average 4.5 forty but checked the boxes on his jumps. They both fell below Mitchell after the combine.

Kalen King from Penn St was disappointment. I thought he could be a 2nd round guy if he ran well, but a 4.65 isn't going to set a very high bar as a lock down corner especially under 6'0"

Khyree Jackson from Oregon is a very interesting prospect because he is 6'4" and ran a 4.5 forty. His broad jump was over 11 feet. He might have worked his way into the 2nd round conversation.

The two Georgia safeties did a little more than check the boxes at the combine. Javon Bullard and Tykee Smith both ran sub 4.5 forties. They would both be in the conversation for high day 2 picks

Jayden Hicks didn't run the 40, he ran a 6.88 3 cone, and a 4.37 shuttle At 6-2 215 pounds he is an intriguing prospect at safety and I would really like to get his full set of numbers to see if he could be a dude. repped 225 16 times. His jumps were above average.

Callen Bullocks didn't do anything to hurt his draft stock. He is a risk in the fact his tackling just isn't up to par, but his coverage skills might be the best in this class.

Malik Mustapha who is supposed to fly at the safety position didn't run or do agility but hit 22 reps on the bench. Weird

The two safety prospect from Miami really didn't do themselves any favors. Williams is supposed to make the move to linebacker and his 4.65 is fine for the move down, but his vertical was 30" which is sort of average for a a high school safety. Kamren Kinchens ran a crap 4.65 forty for a safety, but the rest of his numbers aren't bad. 35" vert and a 9'2" broad jump didn't hurt him, but it didn't help him either. He was competing to be the first safety off the board and now he is looking to stay in the mix as a day 2 guy.

The Utah safeties had a very interesting combine. Sione Vaki who played both offense and defense at Utah did run exceptionally well but had some big jump numbers and hit 20 on the bench. I think he is a day 3 guy but could be a plus add on special teams and guy project at safety. Cole Bishop who have actually watched a bit of film on had a great combine. Sub 4.5 forty almost 40 inch vertical and broad jump over 10. That's pretty good. He is a fluid athlete and can play middle of the field or in the box. He is a solid day 2 guy after the combine.

Tyler Nubin didn't do shit, typical of a Gopher.

[bobblehead]

Really surprised Kinchens time was that slow. He doesn't play slow.
Tyler Nubin is probably Safety 1 now; Javon Bullard might be #2.

Calen Bullock scares me. Ballhawk with range who looks like he hates to tackle.

Would not be shocked if GB signs a S in FA. Last year's safety class was worse, but this year's isn't exactly looking like an all-timer.

I do expect Gutes to sign a FA safety. Its a deep group combined with a not so strong draft.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Obviously WR made a lot of noise at the combine this year. I am sure that means an added one or two go in the first round this year. I would assume the Packers would not be interested in drafting a WR in the first couple of rounds. I would assume this could make several offensive linemen, safeties, corners, and defensive linemen available.

Defensive Backs

Quinyon Mitchell was a CB that might have had an opportunity to fall to the Packers will most likely be the first or second corner taken in this draft. He had a great senior bowl, and phenomenal combine. He might go in the top ten.

Nate Wiggins is also a CB that had a really good combine clocking 4.28 in the forty and basically checking the boxes on the rest of the workout. He is tall and too lean at 173 pounds. NFL receiver could bully him. I am not sure the Packers will have an opportunity to draft him.

Max Melton, a CB who also had himself a day at the combine. Yes he is the brother of Bo. Max is probably still a second day pick, but has put himself in conversation to be picked in the 30-40 range.

Kool-Aid didn't participate. I like his skill set better than Terron Arnolds. Arnold ran an average 4.5 forty but checked the boxes on his jumps. They both fell below Mitchell after the combine.

Kalen King from Penn St was disappointment. I thought he could be a 2nd round guy if he ran well, but a 4.65 isn't going to set a very high bar as a lock down corner especially under 6'0"

Khyree Jackson from Oregon is a very interesting prospect because he is 6'4" and ran a 4.5 forty. His broad jump was over 11 feet. He might have worked his way into the 2nd round conversation.

The two Georgia safeties did a little more than check the boxes at the combine. Javon Bullard and Tykee Smith both ran sub 4.5 forties. They would both be in the conversation for high day 2 picks

Jayden Hicks didn't run the 40, he ran a 6.88 3 cone, and a 4.37 shuttle At 6-2 215 pounds he is an intriguing prospect at safety and I would really like to get his full set of numbers to see if he could be a dude. repped 225 16 times. His jumps were above average.

Callen Bullocks didn't do anything to hurt his draft stock. He is a risk in the fact his tackling just isn't up to par, but his coverage skills might be the best in this class.

Malik Mustapha who is supposed to fly at the safety position didn't run or do agility but hit 22 reps on the bench. Weird

The two safety prospect from Miami really didn't do themselves any favors. Williams is supposed to make the move to linebacker and his 4.65 is fine for the move down, but his vertical was 30" which is sort of average for a a high school safety. Kamren Kinchens ran a crap 4.65 forty for a safety, but the rest of his numbers aren't bad. 35" vert and a 9'2" broad jump didn't hurt him, but it didn't help him either. He was competing to be the first safety off the board and now he is looking to stay in the mix as a day 2 guy.

The Utah safeties had a very interesting combine. Sione Vaki who played both offense and defense at Utah did run exceptionally well but had some big jump numbers and hit 20 on the bench. I think he is a day 3 guy but could be a plus add on special teams and guy project at safety. Cole Bishop who have actually watched a bit of film on had a great combine. Sub 4.5 forty almost 40 inch vertical and broad jump over 10. That's pretty good. He is a fluid athlete and can play middle of the field or in the box. He is a solid day 2 guy after the combine.

Tyler Nubin didn't do shit, typical of a Gopher.

Nutz, kiddos to you for spending countless hours watching YouTube clips of draft prospects. Informative read. Moi? I can’t handle the college game anymore - be it futbol, hoops or gymnastics. Two reasons:

1. College sports make me long for my bygone youth, a time when I was “young and full of life and full of love.”

2. Said bygone youth was full of regrets. Wish I could go back and change things. Perhaps, I would be loved.

That being said, stay tuned for my ingenious 2024 “Mastery Mockery of a Draft.” Here’s a hint on whom I think the Packers should take with their 1st rounder: he plays corner, he’s French and he’s white.

[run pMc]

Good summation Nuts, I agree with your takes. Kool-Aid had a broken toe or something? I think Wiggins dropped weight to run the 40 faster (a lot of guys will do this) but even if huis playing weight is 180 that's too light IMO.
Calen Bullock scares me. Kinchens was a disappointment. I'm higher on Bullard at the moment, but who knows. I'd expect Kinchens to run at pro day and do much better, but he hurt his stock quite a bit with that 40.

One guy who is interesting to me is Oladipo (sp?) from Oregon State as a box safety. Bigger dude at 6-2 and athletic.

As for Bartolini, the high RAS is nice but didn't watch his tape or drills. Bad snaps (if true) aren't part of RAS testing obviously, but would be a concern.
I got nothing against Brealon Allen, I just don't want GB to draft him. RBs that big don't succeed very often. He's not shifty, he's not a pure power back, I'm not sure what he is. Gute wants big back to grind out yards and take some snaps from Jones, but there is nothing making a specific case that be Allen. They can find a 215 pounder with more wiggle to do that, he doesn't need to be 240.
Guerendo feels like workout warrior syndrome. If you think he's Tyler Allgeier then great but before the combine I doubt anybody was talking about him as being more than a late day 3 guy.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think Guerendo will have a better NFL career than Allen
Bortolini will make a decent pro. It's a current tradition amongst centers from wisconsin

[SudsMcBucky]

I think Guerendo will have a better NFL career than Allen
Bortolini will make a decent pro. It's a current tradition amongst centers from wisconsin

Bortolini is way better suited for guard in the NFL than center, especially so if it's a team that spends any kind of decent time out of the gun.

[Joemailman]

rcon14
@rcon14

A lot will change at pro days, but here is the guys that at least haven't missed the Packers general thresholds (yet)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GH2VbktXcAEc6Vz?format=png&name=large

[run pMc]

My gut keeps telling me that Gute is going to draft Chop Robinson in R1. The Saleh defense uses smaller guys at end/edge than Pettine/Barry did, and he fits the mold. Enagbare will start the year on the PUP, Preston is getting old and pricey, and Brenton Cox got no meaningful snaps.
I'd prefer Dejean if he's there, but I could absolutely see them taking a pass rusher.

[Fritz]

If the Packers end up taking Bortolini, and the Vikes take that nose tackle kid Mike Stroni, you'd have epic battles between Bortolini and Minny's Stroni.

[Deputy Nutz]

My gut keeps telling me that Gute is going to draft Chop Robinson in R1. The Saleh defense uses smaller guys at end/edge than Pettine/Barry did, and he fits the mold. Enagbare will start the year on the PUP, Preston is getting old and pricey, and Brenton Cox got no meaningful snaps.
I'd prefer Dejean if he's there, but I could absolutely see them taking a pass rusher.

Yeah I think this is a stretch. Packers have edges that are proven pass rushers and they have 3 guys already in the rotation. they also have guys like Karl Brooks and Colby Wooden that also showed some ability as late round rookies. now they might be a more interior type guys, but also I haven't heard anything about a defensive coordinator preferring smaller guys over bigger guys when it comes to effectiveness.

[Deputy Nutz]

Offensive Line after the Combine.

I think the Packers lack depth and overall talent across the offensive line. Injuries have limited the offensive line from being above average in the NFL. They showed some improvement throughout the season and right now I would say they are better at run blocking then pass protection. I really don't see a position beside left guard and maybe right tackle where this team couldn't improve through the draft

Troy Fautanu is a 6'4" offensive tackle from Washington that had a hell of a combine and he showed off some high level athleticism. I think what is intriguing about him is that he could play 3 or 4 different positions on the offensive line. He has flexibility and that really benefits the depth chart. He could play left tackle in a pinch but most likely would be a right tackle or an extremely athletic guard in the NFL.

Amarius Mims - He is a giant human at 6'8" 340 pounds. I can't see him playing anything but tackle in the NFL. For his size he is a fantastic athlete. His frame looks that of a super hero. The big issue with him is he doesn't have that many game snaps compared to some of these other guys. He has a lot of growth left and the potential is there for teams that can wait a year or two for him to develop. Some teams might pass on him early, but I don't know if he makes it to the Packers. I am not sure the Packers would have interest in him in the first place

Tyler Guyton - Similar size to Mims, but he might not be as athletic or as physical but he is still a freak in terms of size and athleticism. He ran a 1.76 ten yard split with a 34" vert. He also preformed pretty good in all the drills which is more important than any 40 time. Probably another right tackle and again would probably need 1 or 2 season of development.

Roger Rosengarten - more a of day 2 or day 3 prospect that I think did all he could to move into a possible day 2 guy. he ran a sub 5.0 forty and had a 1.73 ten yard split. decent jumps and decent 20 yard shuttle

Frank Crum - small school kid from Montana but anything but small at 6'8" 313. Great testing numbers with sub 5.0 forty with a 1.63 ten yard split. 7.39 three cone, and a 4.73 short shuttle. He started a lot of games, but he is small school kid that might need some work, probably a 4th or a 5th round guy.

Jackson Powers Johnson or JPJ - Big beefy center who didn't run the forty, had a 32' vert which is pretty good for a guy of his build of 6'3" 330. Not exactly the nicest guy in the world, has some decent agility but he looks stiff running in the open field which isn't something you should give a shit about.

Patrick Paul is a tackle prospect out of Houston. another monster of a human being at 6'7" 330 pounds so the fact he ran 5.13 forty with a 1.77 ten yard split is pretty good. looks to have really long legs and thick upper body. He moved pretty well in drills, day 2 kid.

Cooper Beebe is an interior lineman from Kansas St where maybe didn't underwhelm athletically at the combine, I would say he did a good job of checking all the boxes on on the sprints, his vertical jump was boarderline poor, and his bench was pretty sub standard with 20. I think he is a day 2 guy but should be one of the first 3 or 4 interior guys off the board.

[Joemailman]

When did McGinn become such a Badger homer?



Peter Bukowski
@Peter_Bukowski

Though you're seeing him consistently in the top ~20 of mock drafts right now,
@BobMcGinn's scouting survery didn't have Oregon C Jackson Powers-Johnson in the top 55. WVU's Zach Frazier either.

Graham Barton and Tanor Bartolini made it as iOL.

[Joemailman]

Probably don't need 3 LB, but couldn't pass on a LB named Steele Chambers.

25: R1 P25 CB Nate Wiggins - Clemson
41: R2 P9 C Graham Barton - Duke
57: R2 P25 LB Edgerrin Cooper - Texas A&M
88: R3 P24 RB Jonathon Brooks - Texas
91: R3 P27 S Javon Bullard - Georgia
125: R4 P25 LB Cedric Gray - North Carolina
169: R5 P33 S Jaylin Simpson - Auburn
200: R6 P25 WR Luke McCaffery - Rice
216: R6 P41 CB Myles Jones - Duke
218: R6 P43 OT Andrew Coker - TCU
244: R7 P25 LB Steele Chambers - Ohio State

[run pMc]

That's crazy. JPJ is better than Bartolini. Frazier is recovering from a broken leg IIRC so he didn't test.
Lying scouts? Recency bias from the combine? Medical red flags?

Why top 55? Are they at 56 & 57? Even though he's a C who can play G, I'd expect JPJ to be gone before Round 3.

Bartolini is a G, I don't think you want him airmailing snaps all over the backfield. He can learn to get better, but that's not a top 55 player. I'd be ok if they said he's top 100.

[Joemailman]

GBN Report has Bortolini listed at #112 as a Guard on their Big Board. Have him going #93 in their mock.

[Fritz]

Why do so many of you guys get hung up on these Wisconsin boys? I usually don't like a whole lot of guys coming out of Michigan. Some, but not a lot.

And yes, sometimes I am wrong. I was wrong about Gary. But I was right about Harlan Huckleby, and I think I was mostly right about Runyon. I really don't think Blake Corum will be any good, but I think that Sainristil will be a good slot guy. And I don't think he's afraid to tackle.

[run pMc]

Why do so many of you guys get hung up on these Wisconsin boys? I usually don't like a whole lot of guys coming out of Michigan. Some, but not a lot.

And yes, sometimes I am wrong. I was wrong about Gary. But I was right about Harlan Huckleby, and I think I was mostly right about Runyon. I really don't think Blake Corum will be any good, but I think that Sainristil will be a good slot guy. And I don't think he's afraid to tackle.

I generally have a reflexively skeptical take on any Badger player to avoid bias. I can't think of a single Badger this year who should be a R1 or R2 player anyway. Brealon Allen is probably a R3 or R4 pick. Bartolini might be too, but R3 would be a big reach IMO. Plenty of good IOL can be found in the mid rounds.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm one of those guys who tends to favor Badger players, especially the ones who are actually from Wisconsin, including Braelon Allen. I don't like Bortolini, though - I'm not sure where he comes from. That dislike is based on seeing him play.

[Frozen Tundra]

I'm one of those guys who tends to favor Badger players, especially the ones who are actually from Wisconsin, including Braelon Allen. I don't like Bortolini, though - I'm not sure where he comes from. That dislike is based on seeing him play.

He's from the Green Bay area. That's about as "Packer People" as you can get.

He'd probably sign cheap, because he could just stay with his folks.

[texaspackerbacker]

As a FA or fairly low round pick, fine. But I hope they don't draft him until the 3rd day if at all.

[Joemailman]

Packers with 3 comp picks - 5,6,7 rounds. So they have 1 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rds, 1 4th, 1 5th, 2 6ths, 2 7ths.

[Frozen Tundra]

As a FA or fairly low round pick, fine. But I hope they don't draft him until the 3rd day if at all.

Same here. There seem to be so many better OL this year, I'm not sure which one(s) of them I'd pass up on Day One or even Two to reach for Bortolini. You look at him and see a guy who, a lot of years probably would be a Day Two lineman, but this isn't a normal year.

Bad year to be a less-than-stellar OL.

[Frozen Tundra]

Packers with 3 comp picks - 5,6,7 rounds. So they have 1 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rds, 1 4th, 1 5th, 2 6ths, 2 7ths.

I'd still bet money that we don't even draft the first night - drop back out of Round One and end up with about 13 picks again this year.

[Bretsky]

Packers with 3 comp picks - 5,6,7 rounds. So they have 1 1st, 2 2nd, 2 3rds, 1 4th, 1 5th, 2 6ths, 2 7ths.

Time to start running analytics for the Draft Contest :)

[Joemailman]

Time to start running analytics for the Draft Contest :)

All safeties?

[Frozen Tundra]

I'm one of those guys who tends to favor Badger players, especially the ones who are actually from Wisconsin, including Braelon Allen. I don't like Bortolini, though - I'm not sure where he comes from. That dislike is based on seeing him play.

I tend to like Badger alumni partly because of the style of football for which they have historically been noted. Wisconsin is known for tough, hardnosed, groundpounding football... so if you're a player coming out of Wisconsin and being well-regarded in the draft, you've come up in a system that emphasizes the traditional, old-school, smashnouth style that (to me) is the way you win tough games. Those pounders tend to be my favorite players. So a Badger good enough to be a valuable draft pick is a player for whom I automatically have a soft spot right off the bat.

[call_me_ishmael]

Are the vikes gonna trade all the way up to #2 and draft the LSU dude? I bet they are.