Who's to blame? NFLN or the cable companies?

[Patler]

You missed the point, the $.70 itself is 10x as much as many of those other channels cost. If the cable companies choose to market it as a package "sports tier" that is their right, and you have the right not to buy it. Its simple supply and demand. If not enough buy it, the cable companies would have to revise their market strategy.

The same thing should be in play with the NFL/cable company negotiations, but the NFL is attempting to skirt the normal market influences on the price of their product.

I think you missed the point. Big Cable has every right to bully around a new network they way they are and have done in the past, but if the network has a big fan base, they have every right to let the fans know what is happening and every right to ask their fans to switch. Cable isn't used to competition. This whole thing is very new, but it doesn't mean it's wrong just becuase the way TV is purchased is changing. Now we have options and any network that wants to estabilish itslelf can use that rather than being bully's around by what used to be a monopoly.

I have no problem with that. My problem is with them trying to force mediation in a simple commercial transaction.

If you go to buy a car, and you and the dealer can't agree on a price; do you want a mediator to come in and determine how much you will have to pay for it and force the deal down your throat; or do you want to be able to walk away without buying the car?

As a store owner, would you want a mediator to determine what you have to sell and how much you will pay for it?

The NFL and the cable companies are big boys. I say let them fight it out.

[RashanGary]

So what? They are packaging the product in the way that has the highest profit for them.
.

Yeah, and the customer has a choice not to take it. The NFL is doing is the courtesty of letting us know how this whole thing is going down. I'll say to you the same thing I said to Patler. We'll see.

[Patler]

Take a look at ESPN's rate and explain to me why you think 30% of that is such an unreasonable request?

Very simple, wider appeal and much more programing on ESPN. There are programs on ESPN for any sports fan who has cable.

Explain to me why I should pay $.70 just for you to watch football? I might be willing to pay $.10, maybe, but not $.70.

You underestimate the popularity of the NFL, Patler. Like I said to the Thompson haters, you can make baseless claims all you want but when this thing plays out, the proof will be in the pudding. I'll be here. I havn't said much to the Thompson haters, but when people want to make baseless claims as if they are facts, all one can do is say "we'll see". So we will see Patler.

All right JH, what baseless claims have I made?

Why won't you explain to me why you think I should pay for you to watch the NFL?

If the NFL fans have the power and strength you think they have, this will all come out in the end. Personally, I find most sports fans to be like lemmings following their leaders to their eventual demise. Some of you will end up paying whatever the NFL wants you to pay.

[Patler]

You underestimate the popularity of the NFL, Patler.

I think you overestimate its popularity, because its fans are, well, fanatic.

There are many more people who could not careless about the NFL then there are who are fans. There are also many like me, who are fans, but certainly aren't about to pay for each game as the NFL would like. It's just not that important.

[RashanGary]

Patler, Cable has been conducting itself as a monopoly for quite some time. I see your point in not likeing the arbitration, but cable still has a lot of people bent over because they still have a form of monopoly on the market.

With that monopoly comes their ability to ring up these higher tiers and gouge a customer who really only wants one channel becuase it's their only choice. Cable knows they have this power, so they toss it around in these negotiations.



How do you stop a monopoly? There is only one way.

[Patler]

The only potential villian in this deal is the NFL Network, not because they too are trying to generate profits, but because they are leveraging their monopoly position, bullying other businesses. Major League Baseball and NFL exist as legal monopolies, but they aren't supposed to be throwing their weight around and swallowing-up ALL of the related business. The NFL Network is way over the line in dictating terms.

Exactly. Which is why the NFL made a big step backward when a Congressman mentioned "NFL", "antitrust" and "exemption" in the same sentence.

[RashanGary]

All right JH, what baseless claims have I made?

Why won't you explain to me why you think I should pay for you to watch the NFL?

If the NFL fans have the power and strength you think they have, this will all come out in the end. Personally, I find most sports fans to be like lemmings following their leaders to their eventual demise. Some of you will end up paying whatever the NFL wants you to pay.

This comment is seeping with arrogance, Patler. Your horse isn't nearly as high as you think it is.

[Patler]

Patler, Cable has been conducting itself as a monopoly for quite some time. I see your point in not likeing the arbitration, but cable still has a lot of people bent over because they still have a form of monopoly on the market.

With that monopoly comes their ability to ring up these higher tiers and gouge a customer who really only wants one channel becuase it's their only choice. Cable knows they have this power, so they toss it around in these negotiations.

How do you stop a monopoly? There is only one way.

Only in some states. They are fast losing their exclusivities, including perhaps in Wisconsin.

Even so, they have competitors. Look at all the subscribers they have lost over this. That is not a monopolistic situation, because there are alternatives, even if not for all.

What competitor is there for the NFL?

Perhaps Charter should start its own football league?

[RashanGary]

Exactly. Which is why the NFL made a big step backward when a Congressman mentioned "NFL", "antitrust" and "exemption" in the same sentence.

This won't be the first tiem a democrat congressman tried to meddle in buisness, and it won't be the last. I would bet some big cable lobbyist had some say, but the congressman isn't going to tell you that and neither will the spokesperson for Big Cable.

[Patler]

All right JH, what baseless claims have I made?

Why won't you explain to me why you think I should pay for you to watch the NFL?

If the NFL fans have the power and strength you think they have, this will all come out in the end. Personally, I find most sports fans to be like lemmings following their leaders to their eventual demise. Some of you will end up paying whatever the NFL wants you to pay.

This comment is seeping with arrogance, Patler. Your horse isn't nearly as high as you think it is.

Arrogance? What horse? Look at what people are willing to pay for tickets. I put sports fans in the same category as music fans who pay huge concert ticket prices.

What I think is ridiculous is people complaining about their grocery bills, a necessity of life, while they waste hundreds of dollars or more each month on new fancy cars much beyond what they need, entertainment of all sorts, booze, cell phones, text messaging, etc. They complain about $3.00 milk, but pay $100 bucks for two hours entertainment.

[RashanGary]

The NFL is a part of the sports market. People can choose football, basketball, baseball, soccer, rugby or none of them.

If Cable wants to go start a football league, good luck to them. They have every right to do that. The NFL has a pretty great league.

It's one thing to have a great product. It's quite another thing to have recieved tax dollars/tax breaks to build an infrastructure and now using that same infrustracture to strong arm the poeple and companies that need it.

[RashanGary]

Patler, I greatly look forward to our state opening up the cable infrastructure to all companies. As soon as that happens, this whole thing will be dead because TimeWarnercrap and Chartercrap will not have a pot to pee in. Their history of calm negotiations that amount to our way or the highway will be over.

[esoxx]

I don't think too many NFL fans want to miss games next year (even if they are not as big as this one was).

I didn't want to miss games this year or last year either. Each season holds the same significance to me. However, watching an NFL game tonight doesn't make me any more or less moved to action. Until these two squabbling entities get it worked out, they're not getting an extra dime from me and I'm trying not to care.

I feel the same way with the Big Ten Network. If you can't or won't show me the games then I'm not going to go out of my way to go watch at a bar or whatever. I just don't care as much about the Badgers FB & BB teams as I used to since they're not going to televise it. When they get this worked out, I get back in the flow.

[Patler]

The NFL is a part of the sports market. People can choose football, basketball, baseball, soccer, rugby or none of them.

If Cable wants to go start a football league, good luck to them. They have every right to do that. The NFL has a pretty great league.

It's one thing to have a great product. It's quite another thing to have recieved tax dollars/tax breaks to build an infrastructure and now using that same infrustracture to strong arm the poeple and companies that need it.

I'm not sure who you are referring to in your last paragraph?

I have to assume it is the NFL, who's teams have received huge tax dollar "donations" for stadiums while many owners become obscenely rich on paper from the value of their franchise. The cable company I worked for 30 years ago certainly did not receive any tax dollars for infrastructure.

[Partial]

BUt many people also DONT WANT NFLN and don't want to be charged for it.

I understand that, but many of us don't want VH1, Lifetime, BET, Oxygen and many others but we pay for them. If they want me to pay for NFLN, great but don't try to sucker me out of 5 times more money just because you know I'll pay it. That is bull shit and the NFL knows exacly what cable is trying to do. I'll bet there are a lot of old granny's that don't want ESPN for $3 every month but they are getting raked over the coals. Screw that, I pay for 50 channels I don't want every month. The least they can do is give me (and millions of other nFL fans) one of our favorite channels on basic cable.

But those aren't 70 cents... Those channels are like 5 to 10 cents dude.