Al Harris : Contract disupute? other camp notes...

[MJZiggy]

We got the Walker situation because we wouldn't pay him early, not because we would.

[Scott Campbell]

Your not stupid, I'm sure your smart in other areas but this is something that is clearly over your head.

At least when I'm condescending, I do it intentionally.

[chain_gang]

Can we agree that the more you pay player A the less you have to pay for player B.

So paying guys more hurts your team.

If we do not agree on that basic concept then I am wasting my time talking to you. If you agree, we can go forward.

Do you see how paying more negatively effects the team?

Can we agree that when you get a reputation for not paying players it becomes more difficult to get them to play for your team and more difficult to hold onto them once you have them there?

Lets not forget the team morale, Driver more than busted his ass for it, and it should have never been made public that he asked for more money. If it was under the table fine, but to spill it out blatantly in public is a mistake, and now players are looking for the wholes in the whole deal. I can see it both ways for morale, like ziggy said how are you going to keep players around if you won't show an effort to sign some of your own that performed. Also driver performed to a very high level, whereas harris isn't even close in that category, or barnett for that matter.

[RashanGary]

Can we agree that the more you pay player A the less you have to pay for player B.

So paying guys more hurts your team.

If we do not agree on that basic concept then I am wasting my time talking to you. If you agree, we can go forward.

Do you see how paying more negatively effects the team?

Can we agree that when you get a reputation for not paying players it becomes more difficult to get them to play for your team and more difficult to hold onto them once you have them there?

Lets not forget the team morale, Driver more than busted his ass for it, and it should have never been made public that he asked for more money. If it was under the table fine, but to spill it out blatantly in public is a mistake, and now players are looking for the wholes in the whole deal. I can see it both ways for morale, like ziggy said how are you going to keep players around if you won't show an effort to sign some of your own that performed. Also driver performed to a very high level, whereas harris isn't even close in that category, or barnett for that matter.

Thank you for making sense.

[RashanGary]

I think you show them the money when the contract is up like with Kampman and Franks...Everyone can agree that those two got what they are worth.

Why pay Driver extra when you can have Mike Wahle instead of Will Whittaker. I don't know, ask Ted Thompson.

[chain_gang]

Would they have been able to afford Wahle at the time, I think it would have been close. I guess they could have structured the contract so the big cap hits would have been this year and the next couple years, Especially knowing before hand that the CBA would be up this past year and knowing more than likely the cap would be growing by quite a percent when the CBA got extended. That's the one thing I would like to find out. I believe they could have kept Wahle by delaying the big cap numbers until this year. I'm probably wrong but there should be a way to do that.

[MJZiggy]

But you STILL have to get him to agree to do it. From what I understand, that was a big part of the problem. So many people forget that the team cannot just snap its fingers and the player will agree to whatever they're offered.

[RashanGary]

There was a way to keep Wahle. HOnestly, they probably could have given him less than Carolina did if they would have just restructured it. They could have pushed things off and maybe given Brett some money as a signing bonus isntead of as a salary.

Thompson said he did not let Wahle go because he couldn't afford it. He said there are ways.

Thompson undervalued Wahle but the point I'm trying to make is that by giving Driver that money they took money away from other areas. I'm trying to show how it has a negative effect on the outcome..

I acknowledge the moral thing. I understand that. The problem I have is that everyone else is blind to the fact that it has a negative effect as well.

[MadtownPacker]

No one is blind to anything NC. Again you are changing your opinion like a light switch. You where a TT backer last week. Stay consistent.

So what if Harris wants more money. I want more money too. Everyone does. So what if he makes it public. He aint a threat to hold out so I see NO problem at all.

TT job is not to be loved by the players. In fact I prefer they fear being cut if they cant beat out the competition. That was they problem with Sherm as GM/Coach. He couldnt be the hatchet man and their buddy at the same time. TT doesnt care about anything except upgrading the roster and if feelings gets hurt along the way too dam bad.

[Tarlam!]

Wahle did not want to stay under Sherman. I wish you people would finally grasp this. He fucking said so. The money was important, the coach was omnipotent. He hated playing under Sherman. There was no amount of money we coulda thrown at the guy.

[mraynrand]

Tarlam,

You could be right that Wahle didn't want to play 'under Sherman' (I wonder how APB would interpret that). But, given the behavior of a lot of guys before and after they receive their new contract, I suspect that Wahle would have been happy as a clam had Sherman paid him and put his mug on a game day program. let's be honest, Wahle didn't get any better after he went to Carolina. Just like Timmerman (and many other FAs as well), Wahle got into the Pro Bowl because he got some big time name recognition as the best available FA guard.

[Tarlam!]

How many seconds into the FA period was it that Wahle had his new contract again?

He didn't even let TT bite at the cherry. Wahle's mind was well made up before TT even got to GB. The whole TT blew the Wahle deal is so friggin preposterous.

Same with J-Walk. We have a rookie GM going against an agent that wants to change the NFL rulebook in week ONE of his new job. Publicly.

A year down the road, things don't sour. But Javon fucked it up big time with his choice of agent (N.B. since been corrected) and his timing.

[Scott Campbell]

He didn't even let TT bite at the cherry. Wahle's mind was well made up before TT even got to GB. The whole TT blew the Wahle deal is so friggin preposterous.

I think this could be very close to the truth. You think that horrific balloon payment might have actually been designed by Whale's agent so that he'd get his shot at getting out of Green Bay?

[Tarlam!]

He was gone so fast it made my head spin. If he really wanted to be a Packer, he coulda reworked the deal. Like Favre has done how many times?

[pbmax]

He was gone so fast it made my head spin. If he really wanted to be a Packer, he coulda reworked the deal. Like Favre has done how many times?

Tarlam, I don't think Wahle was gone that fast. The comments I remember reading included the club and Wahle recognizing that the Packers weren't going to increase the offer or terms they discussed. Carolina came in clearly over that. Perhaps Wahle didn't bring that offer back to the Packers, but from the comments, it would not have made a difference.

To previous posts, of course you can spread the pain around in the contract and void it later. But that was why Sherman never had any room. He had monster cap numbers he had to carry or eat because of the backloaded deals. And we didn't have the room to either eat a huge bonus or semi-guarantees in the early years, like Woodson's or Kampman's deal this year.

Wahle would have been expensive and it would have been backloaded. He had already delayed his payday by agreeing to that pay me or cut me $6 million roster bonus as part of the extension Sherman signed him to. He wasn't taking a second discount or delay.

He is a great guard. But a good case can be made that a guard isn't worth that percentage of your cap.

Rivera was a risk because even a reduced rate, he was older and had more frequent injuries (including two new ones for the Cowboys). Not everyone is Mark Schlereth, playing the zone blocking scheme after 27 knee surgeries.

The one area a team can control, new, fresh talent, was the downfall of Sherman's roster. There was no depth and so when injuries and FA hit, the cupboard was bare.