Random Thoughts...

[Merlin]

While I was in the Dentist’s chair this morning I had some time to kick back and think about this past NFL season. It didn’t hurt that the Dental Hygienist and the Dentist both were talking about the Packers and asking my opinions on the up coming playoff weekend. Believe it or not people actually respect what I have to say about the Packers and the NFL in general because of the knowledge I have gained through places such as Packer Rats. We know that we all get part of that knowledge from our own fanaticism and the other part comes from sparing with other fanatics. You can learn a lot about our team and the NFL if you take the time to analyze what others have to say and do a little quick research.

Many readers know that I do not care for some of the decisions that Ted Thompson has made. What many readers don’t know is that I have never cared for some of the decisions that any General Manager has made for the Packers. That doesn’t mean all of their decisions, just some of them. Every General Manager the Packers have had has made mistakes and Thompson is no different. Has Ted Thompson done a good job? This all depends on your own perception of what makes a good General Manager. I believe ultimately that his all youth philosophy is going to put the Packers in a difficult situation as far as the salary cap goes. No one, not even myself can predict how contract negotiations are going to go with all of our young emerging stars. Who knew Walker was a head case before he demanded a new contract? We have already been hearing this about some of our young players. If I remember right, wasn’t it Daryn Colledge who rumors had said he was a head case? This has been my concern with Ted from the start. It is how he handles the contracts that will make a difference to me.

The Packers are having a Cinderella type season so of course it’s easy to say that Ted Thompson has done a great job. To me, he did his job and so far has done it well enough to give the Packers the opportunity to be successful. To say that Ted Thompson is the reason the Packers are in the NFC Championship is going too far. He is only a part of it. There is a lot more to a football team then drafting talent and signing free agents. There is a certain amount of luck involved with personnel. Ted’s greatest achievement was to bring in Mike McCarthy. A lot of us including me where mystified by his selection because he came from the worst offensive team in football. When we think back to the selection of Mike Holmgren and Mike Sherman, we said the same thing then, who are these guys? And those coaches turned out to be pretty good. Most of us loved the selection of Ray Rhodes and look where that got us!

McCarthy could have turned out to be the worst offensive head coach in the NFL and even Ted did not know this for sure. It was a gamble that paid off. This one decision is the one that made a team full of no names, young players, and aging veterans into a winner this season. For this Ted deserves some love. You have to wonder what this season would have been like had he gotten Randy Moss. You have to wonder who we may have gotten if he hadn’t taken Justin Harrell in the first round. You have to wonder how much better this team could have been if he had made some different decisions in those cases as well as spending the whole cap. Who knows, it may have been a worse season, but then again we are 14-3 now, could we have been 17-0?

After the first pre-season game against the Steelers many people wanted Atari Bigby cut. The jokes were abound about his name and how awful he played in that game. I thought the kid played tough. Sure, he got torched a time or too but there was that fire there. Something we hadn’t had at the safety position since Nick Collins’ first season. I remember how Abdul Hodge was going to push Barnett either to the outside or out of the starting role. I remember how Deshan Wynn and Brandon Jackson were going to be an awesome tandem at running back. I remember Ryan Grant being a stop gap player. I remember how David Clowney was going to be a stud returner. And I remember how Will Blackmon was going to be a great cover corner. I remember how Scott Wells wasn’t going to be the starting center and how great Coston and Barbe were. All of these predictions of course never came to fruition. We argued back and forth and what it ultimately came down to too me was: none of us have a clue. We all jump on the player we like because of this or that and we are all passionate about that player. That’s what fans do and that’s the reason we are fans and not in an NFL front office or coaching.

What all of this proves is that the Packers this season are a lot like the fans. We all come from different backgrounds, we all have different opinions, we are young and old, some are smart, some are in between, and some aren’t so smart. The one thing that brings us together is our passion for the Green Bay Packers, the passion for them to be successful, and the human nature in us to always want to be number one. I believe in my heart and soul that the best team in the NFC is the Green Bay Packers. When the Giants and Packers take the field on Sunday, the best team on that field is the Green Bay Packers. Regardless of the outcome, I am proud to say that I am a fan and I will be one no matter the record. I will always fight for what I believe is in the best interests of the Packers and I expect no less from any other true fan. When the lights go out at Lambeau Field on Sunday, the Packers will be #1 to me. My prediction is Packers 31 Giants 17 with the Giants scoring a late touchdown to make the game closer then it was.

[Deputy Nutz]

Pretty good post. I am not asking anyone to change their position on Ted Thompson, but like you stated, GMs do make mistakes, the question is can the team and GM make more good moves than mistakes?

Anyways you have to build your team through youth if you are going to rebuild, the questions are answered when you can let those young players go because the GM does his homework consistently and can replace the current players with younger and more talent players. With the salary cap it is a cycle, and what is as or is even more important than finding talent in the draft and player analysis is how a team manages their money, and so far, Thompson and Brandt have done a remarkable job using and working the salary cap.

[The Leaper]

Re: Random Thoughts...

I believe ultimately that his all youth philosophy is going to put the Packers in a difficult situation as far as the salary cap goes. No one, not even myself can predict how contract negotiations are going to go with all of our young emerging stars.

It doesn't matter Merlin.

A. Favre's $10M+ cap number is a nest egg that is waiting to be cashed. He's not going to be here forever, and the minute he retires he will provide the team with a huge amount of cap relief.

B. Thompson does not overpay for players very often. With the current cap amount, it actually isn't all that difficult to put together a very good team and still remain well under the cap...providing you don't overpay in free agency like Washington. Look at the cash Indy is paying Manning, Harrison and Freeney...and they still have a great team around them as well. Outside of Favre, we don't have anyone in the Manning/Harrison/Freeney salary range.

C. Thompson's strategy of youth allows him to REPLACE guys that eventually will leave for more money with other young guys. That is precisely why Thompson drafts a guy like Harrell. Someone like you pisses and moans when he doesn't make an immediate impact...but in reality, Thompson realizes that his value will truly come to light down the road. There are numerous other franchises (Pittsburgh and Philly come to mind) that have let key veterans leave IN DROVES in the last decade for big contracts elsewhere, but have maintained the core of a playoff contender by developing young talent behind the guys who leave.

The bottom line is that Thompson has chosen a coach who at this point seems to be an A+ choice. When it comes to a GM, his most important decision is who his head coach is. Ron Wolf would have gone absolutely nowhere without Holmgren and the staff he brought with him. Thompson deserves high praise for picking McCarthy...when he wasn't even on the radar of any other team. It took BALLS to make that hire...and Thompson deserves every bit of credit for it.

Sure, no one is going to agree with everything a GM does. However, to say that Thompson has done anything other than a great job to this point...when his team is the favorite to advance to the Super Bowl 2 years after he arrived and the team was 4-12...would be rather stupid IMO.

[Lurker64]

Re: Random Thoughts...

I believe ultimately that his all youth philosophy is going to put the Packers in a difficult situation as far as the salary cap goes.

I believe that the success of Thompson's plan longterm hinges on his ability to continue to draft well. If he continues to draft well in perpetuity, he's probably a good GM. If he starts screwing up regularly, then he'll need to be replaced. So far, the early results are good.

[oregonpackfan]

You made a very insightful post, Merlin, after sitting in a dentist's chair.

If they were the result of a shot of novecaine in your gums, I'm going to have to make an appointment with my dentist!

[Freak Out]

Were you with these dentists in the bar? Holy shit man...how the heck were you able to tell these guys your Packer philosophy with some root planing going on?


Your main point that we are all Packer fans...regardless of age, religion, political background....blah, blah, blah... is spot on.



Go Pack!

[Merlin]

Re: Random Thoughts...

I believe ultimately that his all youth philosophy is going to put the Packers in a difficult situation as far as the salary cap goes. No one, not even myself can predict how contract negotiations are going to go with all of our young emerging stars.

It doesn't matter Merlin.

A. Favre's $10M+ cap number is a nest egg that is waiting to be cashed. He's not going to be here forever, and the minute he retires he will provide the team with a huge amount of cap relief.

B. Thompson does not overpay for players very often. With the current cap amount, it actually isn't all that difficult to put together a very good team and still remain well under the cap...providing you don't overpay in free agency like Washington. Look at the cash Indy is paying Manning, Harrison and Freeney...and they still have a great team around them as well. Outside of Favre, we don't have anyone in the Manning/Harrison/Freeney salary range.

C. Thompson's strategy of youth allows him to REPLACE guys that eventually will leave for more money with other young guys. That is precisely why Thompson drafts a guy like Harrell. Someone like you pisses and moans when he doesn't make an immediate impact...but in reality, Thompson realizes that his value will truly come to light down the road. There are numerous other franchises (Pittsburgh and Philly come to mind) that have let key veterans leave IN DROVES in the last decade for big contracts elsewhere, but have maintained the core of a playoff contender by developing young talent behind the guys who leave.

The bottom line is that Thompson has chosen a coach who at this point seems to be an A+ choice. When it comes to a GM, his most important decision is who his head coach is. Ron Wolf would have gone absolutely nowhere without Holmgren and the staff he brought with him. Thompson deserves high praise for picking McCarthy...when he wasn't even on the radar of any other team. It took BALLS to make that hire...and Thompson deserves every bit of credit for it.

Sure, no one is going to agree with everything a GM does. However, to say that Thompson has done anything other than a great job to this point...when his team is the favorite to advance to the Super Bowl 2 years after he arrived and the team was 4-12...would be rather stupid IMO.

I would expect nothing less then a post from you that contradicts the all youth philosophy you believe in. We aren't the Steelers or the Eagles. We do not have veteran depth with young talent behind them. We have young talent with no one behind them. If you cannot keep those young players and continue to replace them with young players, I wonder what the outcome will be? 4-12? 8-8? We haven't been down that road already have we? Do you honestly believe that all of this talent won't bolt for a real paycheck when their contract is up? Thompson doesn't overpay anyone, Favre is a big reason why players come to Green Bay and perform. Take out Favre and the prospect of a bigger contract with a team that has a QB and then talk to me about how much cap space we have. Face it, we don't know shit. We won't know for another 2-3 years how his "philosophy" will work out. I am not speculating as you have. I question whether or not it will work instead of contradicting my own position on the subject.

Please refrain from responding to anything I post. It is abundantly clear that not only do you have a personal problem with me but you also can't take handle anyone disagreeing with your almighty ass.

[MJZiggy]

Thompson may not overpay people, but he sure seems to have been giving them fair deals lately and with the exception of Green who did get overpaid, I haven't seen a whole lot of people jumping ship the last year or two...our premier players don't even seem to be making it to the end of their contracts before they get paid. Maybe that's partly so they don't all become FA at once...

[Merlin]

As I said, we will see. There is star power with Favre and without that we may not have a choice no matter what the offer is. If we fall into a constant cycle of replacing young players with young players, it will be ugly. Can Thompson spread it out? Sure, but he better start the extensions before Favre retires because I am not so sure some of these players will stick around otherwise. There is something to be said for having Favre on the team. That part of the puzzle will definitely be unknown as will his philosophy. I would love nothing more for everything to work out but it will be 2-3 years before we have enough veteran depth to bring up young talent and at that time, all of these contract will be coming due. Take out a HOF QB and replace him with an unproven QB that still looks shaky after three seasons and I think as good of a coach as McCarthy is, we won't be this successful.

All of these scenarios are great to talk about but we don't know because of the direction Thompson has taken us. To speculate until that time is fine but to jump on a the train when you don't know if it's got all it's wheels on the track isn't very smart either.

[MJZiggy]

Can Thompson spread it out? Sure, but he better start the extensions before Favre retires because I am not so sure some of these players will stick around otherwise.

He's already started extending people...and most of the player takes I've heard (and I've heard a lot this week) indicate that the players on the team are comfortable with Rodgers. I don't think the situation is as dire as you make it out to be. I think I'll enjoy the rest of the season, know that Favre will likely be around another year and realize that both in Seattle and here it's become apparent that TT knows what he's doing and learns from his mistakes pretty quickly. It will be fine. There's no need to panic. I feel like I've said that before...

[Deputy Nutz]

As I said, we will see. There is star power with Favre and without that we may not have a choice no matter what the offer is. If we fall into a constant cycle of replacing young players with young players, it will be ugly. Can Thompson spread it out? Sure, but he better start the extensions before Favre retires because I am not so sure some of these players will stick around otherwise. There is something to be said for having Favre on the team. That part of the puzzle will definitely be unknown as will his philosophy. I would love nothing more for everything to work out but it will be 2-3 years before we have enough veteran depth to bring up young talent and at that time, all of these contract will be coming due. Take out a HOF QB and replace him with an unproven QB that still looks shaky after three seasons and I think as good of a coach as McCarthy is, we won't be this successful.

All of these scenarios are great to talk about but we don't know because of the direction Thompson has taken us. To speculate until that time is fine but to jump on a the train when you don't know if it's got all
it's wheels on the track isn't very smart either.

With this philosophy how is Green Bay ever going to recruit free agents without Favre?

[cheesner]

I would expect nothing less then a post from you that contradicts the all youth philosophy you believe in. We aren't the Steelers or the Eagles. We do not have veteran depth with young talent behind them. We have young talent with no one behind them. If you cannot keep those young players and continue to replace them with young players, I wonder what the outcome will be? 4-12? 8-8? We haven't been down that road already have we? Do you honestly believe that all of this talent won't bolt for a real paycheck when their contract is up? Thompson doesn't overpay anyone, Favre is a big reason why players come to Green Bay and perform. Take out Favre and the prospect of a bigger contract with a team that has a QB and then talk to me about how much cap space we have. Face it, we don't know shit. We won't know for another 2-3 years how his "philosophy" will work out. I am not speculating as you have. I question whether or not it will work instead of contradicting my own position on the subject.

Please refrain from responding to anything I post. It is abundantly clear that not only do you have a personal problem with me but you also can't take handle anyone disagreeing with your almighty ass.

So what are you suggesting? That TT shouldn't bring in great talent so that they won't leave for big bucks in a few years?

[vince]

Re: Random Thoughts...

I believe ultimately that his all youth philosophy is going to put the Packers in a difficult situation as far as the salary cap goes. No one, not even myself can predict how contract negotiations are going to go with all of our young emerging stars.

It doesn't matter Merlin.

A. Favre's $10M+ cap number is a nest egg that is waiting to be cashed. He's not going to be here forever, and the minute he retires he will provide the team with a huge amount of cap relief.

B. Thompson does not overpay for players very often. With the current cap amount, it actually isn't all that difficult to put together a very good team and still remain well under the cap...providing you don't overpay in free agency like Washington. Look at the cash Indy is paying Manning, Harrison and Freeney...and they still have a great team around them as well. Outside of Favre, we don't have anyone in the Manning/Harrison/Freeney salary range.

C. Thompson's strategy of youth allows him to REPLACE guys that eventually will leave for more money with other young guys. That is precisely why Thompson drafts a guy like Harrell. Someone like you pisses and moans when he doesn't make an immediate impact...but in reality, Thompson realizes that his value will truly come to light down the road. There are numerous other franchises (Pittsburgh and Philly come to mind) that have let key veterans leave IN DROVES in the last decade for big contracts elsewhere, but have maintained the core of a playoff contender by developing young talent behind the guys who leave.

The bottom line is that Thompson has chosen a coach who at this point seems to be an A+ choice. When it comes to a GM, his most important decision is who his head coach is. Ron Wolf would have gone absolutely nowhere without Holmgren and the staff he brought with him. Thompson deserves high praise for picking McCarthy...when he wasn't even on the radar of any other team. It took BALLS to make that hire...and Thompson deserves every bit of credit for it.

Sure, no one is going to agree with everything a GM does. However, to say that Thompson has done anything other than a great job to this point...when his team is the favorite to advance to the Super Bowl 2 years after he arrived and the team was 4-12...would be rather stupid IMO.

I would expect nothing less then a post from you that contradicts the all youth philosophy you believe in. We aren't the Steelers or the Eagles. We do not have veteran depth with young talent behind them. We have young talent with no one behind them. If you cannot keep those young players and continue to replace them with young players, I wonder what the outcome will be? 4-12? 8-8? We haven't been down that road already have we? Do you honestly believe that all of this talent won't bolt for a real paycheck when their contract is up? Thompson doesn't overpay anyone, Favre is a big reason why players come to Green Bay and perform. Take out Favre and the prospect of a bigger contract with a team that has a QB and then talk to me about how much cap space we have. Face it, we don't know shit. We won't know for another 2-3 years how his "philosophy" will work out. I am not speculating as you have. I question whether or not it will work instead of contradicting my own position on the subject.

Please refrain from responding to anything I post. It is abundantly clear that not only do you have a personal problem with me but you also can't take handle anyone disagreeing with your almighty ass.

While Leaper is more than capable of responding himself to this crap, I can't help but comment. Merlin, Leaper presented NOTHING here but facts and opinions about the ideas and assertions you made. Then you respond with the shit you did.

Now, on to your assertions...

If you cannot keep those young players and continue to replace them with young players, I wonder what the outcome will be? 4-12? 8-8?

Why Merlin, do you think that Ted and Co. have navigated their way into premium salary cap position? And why, Merlin, do you think that Ted and Co. have pushed salary cap dollars into the future?

It's at least a little face-saving to see your position of "T+T+T=DISASTER" has softened significantly, but your criticisms of Thompson now are 1) he should have spent all the cap money he had available this year now, 2) he MAY NOT be able to re-sign the budding stars he's drafted and signed that have helped create a winner. Then what? 3) the team lacks "veteran depth" and 4) Aaron Rodgers and Justin Harrell are busts. Is that right?

[cpk1994]

Re: Random Thoughts...

I believe ultimately that his all youth philosophy is going to put the Packers in a difficult situation as far as the salary cap goes. No one, not even myself can predict how contract negotiations are going to go with all of our young emerging stars.

It doesn't matter Merlin.

A. Favre's $10M+ cap number is a nest egg that is waiting to be cashed. He's not going to be here forever, and the minute he retires he will provide the team with a huge amount of cap relief.

B. Thompson does not overpay for players very often. With the current cap amount, it actually isn't all that difficult to put together a very good team and still remain well under the cap...providing you don't overpay in free agency like Washington. Look at the cash Indy is paying Manning, Harrison and Freeney...and they still have a great team around them as well. Outside of Favre, we don't have anyone in the Manning/Harrison/Freeney salary range.

C. Thompson's strategy of youth allows him to REPLACE guys that eventually will leave for more money with other young guys. That is precisely why Thompson drafts a guy like Harrell. Someone like you pisses and moans when he doesn't make an immediate impact...but in reality, Thompson realizes that his value will truly come to light down the road. There are numerous other franchises (Pittsburgh and Philly come to mind) that have let key veterans leave IN DROVES in the last decade for big contracts elsewhere, but have maintained the core of a playoff contender by developing young talent behind the guys who leave.

The bottom line is that Thompson has chosen a coach who at this point seems to be an A+ choice. When it comes to a GM, his most important decision is who his head coach is. Ron Wolf would have gone absolutely nowhere without Holmgren and the staff he brought with him. Thompson deserves high praise for picking McCarthy...when he wasn't even on the radar of any other team. It took BALLS to make that hire...and Thompson deserves every bit of credit for it.

Sure, no one is going to agree with everything a GM does. However, to say that Thompson has done anything other than a great job to this point...when his team is the favorite to advance to the Super Bowl 2 years after he arrived and the team was 4-12...would be rather stupid IMO.

I would expect nothing less then a post from you that contradicts the all youth philosophy you believe in. We aren't the Steelers or the Eagles. We do not have veteran depth with young talent behind them. We have young talent with no one behind them. If you cannot keep those young players and continue to replace them with young players, I wonder what the outcome will be? 4-12? 8-8? We haven't been down that road already have we? Do you honestly believe that all of this talent won't bolt for a real paycheck when their contract is up? Thompson doesn't overpay anyone, Favre is a big reason why players come to Green Bay and perform. Take out Favre and the prospect of a bigger contract with a team that has a QB and then talk to me about how much cap space we have. Face it, we don't know shit. We won't know for another 2-3 years how his "philosophy" will work out. I am not speculating as you have. I question whether or not it will work instead of contradicting my own position on the subject.

Please refrain from responding to anything I post. It is abundantly clear that not only do you have a personal problem with me but you also can't take handle anyone disagreeing with your almighty ass.

While Leaper is more than capable of responding himself to this crap, I can't help but comment. Merlin, Leaper presented NOTHING here but facts and opinions about the ideas and assertions you made. Then you respond with this shit.

If you cannot keep those young players and continue to replace them with young players, I wonder what the outcome will be? 4-12? 8-8?

Why Merlin, do you think that Ted and Co. have navigated their way into premium salary cap position? And why, Merlin, do you think that Ted and Co. have pushed salary cap dollars into the future?

It's at least a little face-saving to see your position of "T+T+T=DISASTER" has softened significantly, but your criticisms of Thompson now are 1) he should have spent all the cap money he had available this year now, 2) he MAY NOT be able to re-sign the budding stars he's drafted and signed that have helped create a winner. Then what? 3) the team lacks "veteran depth" and 4) Aaron Rodgers and Justin Harrell are busts. Is that right?

OF course you are right. Merlin is still saying "TT sucks", just using different words to say it.

[The Leaper]

Re: Random Thoughts...

I would expect nothing less then a post from you that contradicts the all youth philosophy you believe in. We aren't the Steelers or the Eagles. We do not have veteran depth with young talent behind them. We have young talent with no one behind them.

Well, the point is that Thompson is building up to that. He can't rebuild the entire roster with both veterans and youth in 3 years. He has retained a few key veterans (Favre, Driver, Kampman, Harris) and then has built around them primarily with youth. Sure, that hurt us a lot...and was a big reason we finished 4-12 and 8-8. However, we are past the growing pains now...and the young talent he has added is gaining valuable big game experience each week at this point, and will be that much better equipped in the future because of it.

If you cannot keep those young players and continue to replace them with young players, I wonder what the outcome will be?

Which young players are we going to lose this offseason, Merlin? Back up your mouth with evidence. The only guy we are likely to lose is Williams...and that is at a position on the DL where there IS a good balance of veterans and young depth. He is expendable...mostly due to Thompson's strategy of taking a guy like Harrell last year.

The FACT, Merlin, is that Green Bay is in incredible shape cap-wise...and we don't really have a ton of pending UFAs in the next few years. Thompson can continue to build the roster in those 2 years with another 15-20 draft picks...and will identify key players to retain going forward (Jennings, Grant) and lock them in long term.

Do you honestly believe that all of this talent won't bolt for a real paycheck when their contract is up?

Every successful team has that problem Merlin. So is your goal to not be successful so you don't have this problem? It sure as hell sounds like it.

Thompson doesn't overpay anyone

Franks?
Woodson?
Manual?

He overpaid all 3 of those guys...albeit Woodson is now well worth it on the back end.

Please refrain from responding to anything I post. It is abundantly clear that not only do you have a personal problem with me but you also can't take handle anyone disagreeing with your almighty ass.

I'm just calling you out...present some facts to back up your opinions. You claim Thompson has put this team into a horrible position where we won't be able to keep anyone...but provide no evidence to back it up. Where are the UFAs who are ready to bolt out the door this offseason? Where are the players who are complaining in the media that they can't wait to get out of Green Bay?

If you provide some of that evidence, then I might take your position more seriously. Until then, I won't...because I don't see the impending exodus of players. Most guys want to stay with a winner...and right now Green Bay is a winner.