The Draft. Corey Williams. The Draft. Uhhh, the draft.

[b bulldog]

KGB I think had around one sack in the last 5 games. the thought that he is any way comparable to freeney is simply crazy. I think KGB still actually only has a speed rush, he has no moves and stinks in containment and against the run.

[HarveyWallbangers]

KGB I think had around one sack in the last 5 games. the thought that he is any way comparable to freeney is simply crazy. I think KGB still actually only has a speed rush, he has no moves and stinks in containment and against the run.

I won't compare KGB to Freeney, but you sure are a stats man when it benefits you. How many sacks has Freeney had the last 2 years (in 25 games)? Try 8 sacks total. In 2 years. Playing roughly the equivalent of 1 1/2 seasons.

[twoseven]

KGB may not be worth all the money he gets, but how worthwhile is it to get rid of him when there isn't a replacement that you can count on to provide the sacks that he does? Signing Allen or Hayensworth seems a pipe dream at this point as both look as locks for the franchise tag. Entertaining the signing of a franchised player seems foolish considering what it would cost us by way of picks and dollars.

Some think it might be better to trade KGB for whatever or release him and clear his cap dollars (?). But, how much more money under the cap do we want to be anyway, considering it's unlikely much of the $25 mil will be spent to begin with? We certainly won't get even close to fair value in a trade for him. KGB may not be Kampman in overall production, but who is a better replacement that we can get for less?

[Tony Oday]

My god we are almost a billion dollars under the cap! lol ok not that much but damn KGB is worth it for just the handful of times at the end of the game him and Kamp met at the QB and ended the game.

[LL2]

KGB may not be worth all the money he gets, but how worthwhile is it to get rid of him when there isn't a replacement that you can count on to provide the sacks that he does? Signing Allen or Hayensworth seems a pipe dream at this point as both look as locks for the franchise tag. Entertaining the signing of a franchised player seems foolish considering what it would cost us by way of picks and dollars.

Some think it might be better to trade KGB for whatever or release him and clear his cap dollars (?). But, how much more money under the cap do we want to be anyway, considering it's unlikely much of the $25 mil will be spent to begin with? We certainly won't get even close to fair value in a trade for him. KGB may not be Kampman in overall production, but who is a better replacement that we can get for less?

Good point. The Pack would not get much in return for KGB and they can't get rid of him until they find a better replacement. I thought Jenkins was going to come on strong and be that guy, and finish with 12-14 sacks. The Pack are not going to get a dominant DE in this years draft so they might as well keep KGB for another year.

[Deputy Nutz]

You don't cut a player unless you have a viable replacement, or your totally fucked with the cap. the Packers are/have neither.

No replacement for KGB and his 10 sacks, nor do they have a cap problem where the need to reduce or cut 7.7 million. If I was a player and a team came to me and asked me to take a pay cut when the franchise was 25 million under would piss me off.

[pbmax]

Wow, that was impressive, four posts in a row channeling Mike Sherman! And I thought public sentiment on the board had all gone over to T2.

KGB at his cap number is, I believe, ludicrous. The only reservation I have is that in a recent chat, McGinn claimed the four man pass rush suffered when KGB got injured. I barely remember him being injured and I don't recall it reducing his effectiveness as it was already close to nil. But I give McGinn credit, he re-watches all the games and I don't always see every play. I thought Kampman got progressively less effective, even one on one.

But T2 has shown that he won't mind discarding an expensive vet if he has anything behind him that he would rather get playing time. I doubt Montgomery is that player, maybe Hunter.

But if he lands a pass rusher in the draft that has a good camp, or finds a value DE in FA, then KGB could be gone at the end of camp.

What did Herm Edwards call it? His tolerance box? Not a good place to be, he said, because he will tolerate you only until he can replace you. And it T2's case, that might mean you get replaced by a committee of rookies.

[Patler]

KGB at his cap number is, I believe, ludicrous. The only reservation I have is that in a recent chat, McGinn claimed the four man pass rush suffered when KGB got injured. I barely remember him being injured and I don't recall it reducing his effectiveness as it was already close to nil. But I give McGinn credit, he re-watches all the games and I don't always see every play. I thought Kampman got progressively less effective, even one on one.

KGB, Cole and Jolly all got hurt about the same time. Jolly missed his first game against Detroit. Cole broke his arm in the Detroit game, and KGB also was injured against Detroit. The following week KGB did not play against Dallas. So in two weeks they lost Jolly and Cole for the season, and KGB for a week, and slowed thereafter. Three weeks later, Pickett was injured and missed the last two games. All of a sudden, everyone was playing more snaps, and some who had not been playing were forced to. With 3 guys getting hurt at the same time, and Pickett a few weeks after that, I think it is pretty hard to attribute the decline in play by the DL to the injury to just one of them.

[Patler]

I thought Kampman got progressively less effective, even one on one.

I thought he did, too, but some of it might have had to do with the decline by others, making Kampman easier to avoid.

Interesting stat - while Kampman's sack numbers were down, he broke Reggie White's record for QB knockdowns in a season with 31. The record was 29. KGB was second this season with 11 knockdowns.

Sacks:
Kampman - 12
KGB - 9.5
Jenkins - 1

Knockdowns:
Kampman - 31
KGB - 11
Jenkins - 9.5

Hurries:
Kampman - 15.5
KGB - 16
Jenkins - 18.5

Pressures (the above combined):
Kampman - 58.5
KGB - 36.5
Jenkins - 29

Kampman had three more "pressures" than he had last year.[/u]

[Deputy Nutz]

I just don't think knockdowns are a legit statistic. What do you do when you knock a QB down and get roughing the passer penalty?

[Patler]

I just don't think knockdowns are a legit statistic. What do you do when you knock a QB down and get roughing the passer penalty?

You don't get a knockdown when you get a roughing penalty.
It's an indication of pressure that hopefully forces mistakes. Knockdowns can "knock" a QB off his rhythm. It's a "hurry", but a little sooner still, or a sack just a fraction late.

[b bulldog]

Hurries are as important as sacks