An interesting take on ranking all-time QB's

[woodbuck27]

I like the list and ranking. Johnny U was amazing as was Montana.

I had a beautiful gal friend ( that I'll defer to) who adored Joe Montana before she hooked onto Brett Favre. I've met few more intelligent people and I believe she'd rank Montana over Favre. She was too young to see Johnny U.

I will always wonder just how many SB's Brett Favre may have won if he was surrounded with better talent and that includes coaching. That fact of life, in my mind, keeps him fr. nabbing top spot.

Joe Montana. Four Super Bowls in four tries says a lot as to who tops a lot of NFL fans list. Then, some will then say ''well shouldn't Terry Bradshaw then be posted higher?'' Terry Bradshaw called his own game as well. He also played on a team that had very deep talent depth on both 'O' and 'D'. Few QB's could ever claim to have played on the caliber of teams that Terry Bradshaw did. Again he called his teams offensive plays and I feel a lot of lists ignore his true status.

Johnny Unitas should be ranked at the top of most fans list. He amazed me as tops before I witnessed Joe Montana (with a big assist fr. Bill Walsh and the new West Coast 'O'.)

I see lists that rank John Elway too high as I saw his performance overall. I like his placing on this list.

I'm glad to see Fran Tarkenton making Tim Cowlishaw's list as well. Fran Tarkenton always makes my top ten. He was a very exciting QB for me to watch.

PACKERS FOREVER!

[woodbuck27]

While no fault of his, Starr played in an era with few minorities, which means a severely diminished talent pool.

While we pack fans love starr, some are letting their GB bias get in the way. Most would not put starr in the same league as Unitas or graham.

Starr is like Rich Gannon. A good caretaker of the offense, but no one should even think about putting him in the top 5 let alone top ten.

Bart Starr was a real winner though. Tough to beat in that department. He could win the BIG game.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

While no fault of his, Starr played in an era with few minorities, which means a severely diminished talent pool.

While we pack fans love starr, some are letting their GB bias get in the way. Most would not put starr in the same league as Unitas or graham.

Starr is like Rich Gannon. A good caretaker of the offense, but no one should even think about putting him in the top 5 let alone top ten.

Bart Starr was a real winner though. Tough to beat in that department. He could win the BIG game.

Sure. And, with that supporting cast Trent Dilfer woulda won as well.

[The Shadow]

Fair list. I'd probably put Elway 4th right now. Personally, I'd put Starr ahead of Tarkenton, Staubach, and Bradshaw. Many of the other "winners" (Montana, Brady, Bradshaw) are on the list, so I'd have to put the guy who won more titles (5) than anybody else on this list in my top 10. If we were to rank Graham, he'd go in the top 5. I think he won played in 9 title games and won 7 over a 10 year stretch.

I grew up watching Starr and truly admired him. He did not have the physical skills of Tarkenton, Staubach, and Bradshaw. What he lacked in physical skills, he made up in intelligence and leadership.

Starr played in an era where the QB called most of the plays. IMO, Starr was the most intelligent QB I have ever seen play the game. Opposing teams feared the third and one and fourth and one situations with Starr.

About half the time he would call a long pass and complete most of them. If the team played up in anticipating the run, Starr would beat them with the pass. If they anticipated a surprise pass on short yardage and play in coverage, Starr would call for a short run to Jim Taylor. The Packers conversion rates in short yardage was uncanny.

In his quiet confident manner, Starr was one of the best QB's as a leader. Every player respected him and no one questioned his decisions.

Agree completely.

[The Shadow]

Bart Starr is quick to point out that Favre is by far the better QB of the two...and he should know a hell of a lot more about it than just about anyone else.

Oh yeah, because Starr is going to come out and say "I'm better than Favre".

GBRulz : You are right on the money!

[The Shadow]

While no fault of his, Starr played in an era with few minorities, which means a severely diminished talent pool.

While we pack fans love starr, some are letting their GB bias get in the way. Most would not put starr in the same league as Unitas or graham.

Starr is like Rich Gannon. A good caretaker of the offense, but no one should even think about putting him in the top 5 let alone top ten.

.................................................. .................................................. .....

I certainly understand the desire of younger Packer fans to want to have seen 'the best' - and so anoint Brett as alltime greatest Packer quarterback.
But, as a fan old enough to have had the privilege of following the careers of both Starr and Favre, I must reiterate my contention (and I know many here are sick of hearing it by now!) that although Brett Favre has far superior physical gifts, Starr was the overall superior quarterback.
At the most basic level : of what use is a rocket arm and all the talent in the world if your field generalship and judgment do not translate into wins?
Starr, with far more modest physical talent, simply won. What particularly stands out was his performance in the Ice Bowl, where he found a way to win even in the teeth of impossible conditions and situation.
The image of that final drive came to mind most recently when I watched the contrasting failure of this year's team in the Giants game.
Again, I understand completely that fans who 'grew up' with Favre want to regard him as 'best ever', but.....
Sorry, not being able to jump aboard bandwagons is yet another curse of having been around a long time.

[b bulldog]

Wow, one list where favre is ahead of Brady and it is called a "fair list"

[b bulldog]

I like this poll, from a bunch of NFL TALENT EVALUATORS.
1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Marino
5. Manning
6. Elway
7. Bradshaw
8. Favre
9. Graham
10. Fouts


As always, this discussion is pure opinion but I like taking peoples opinions that are in the know on what they are polling.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

While no fault of his, Starr played in an era with few minorities, which means a severely diminished talent pool.

While we pack fans love starr, some are letting their GB bias get in the way. Most would not put starr in the same league as Unitas or graham.

Starr is like Rich Gannon. A good caretaker of the offense, but no one should even think about putting him in the top 5 let alone top ten.

.................................................. .................................................. .....

I certainly understand the desire of younger Packer fans to want to have seen 'the best' - and so anoint Brett as alltime greatest Packer quarterback.
But, as a fan old enough to have had the privilege of following the careers of both Starr and Favre, I must reiterate my contention (and I know many here are sick of hearing it by now!) that although Brett Favre has far superior physical gifts, Starr was the overall superior quarterback.
At the most basic level : of what use is a rocket arm and all the talent in the world if your field generalship and judgment do not translate into wins?
Starr, with far more modest physical talent, simply won. What particularly stands out was his performance in the Ice Bowl, where he found a way to win even in the teeth of impossible conditions and situation.
The image of that final drive came to mind most recently when I watched the contrasting failure of this year's team in the Giants game.
Again, I understand completely that fans who 'grew up' with Favre want to regard him as 'best ever', but.....
Sorry, not being able to jump aboard bandwagons is yet another curse of having been around a long time.

You are making an argument that i didn't. Take favre outta the equation..which i clearly did. And, there is no desire for me to say that i saw the best...i'll take the words of professionals whose judgement i'll take over yours or others. Ron Wolf didn't rate Starr that high. Cowlishaw (granted writer) didn't have him in the top ten.

You are letting the past cloud your judgement.

Starr never had to carry at team. He never completed 200 passes in a season. He was a 4 time pro bowler in 15 YEARS.

Let's compare him to...and Bullldog will hate me for this..to another what i call system QB...Brady. Brady as a starter has more years in his short career of over 60% completion to Starr's 4..and one of those years he completed 92 passes or so.

The pack regularly ran the ball almost TWICE as much as they passed.

Don't worry about Favre making mistakes..he wouldn't have with those teams. When you are only passing 250 or so times. Look at his stats in 61 when he had to pass nearly 300 times...16 ints.

And, despite favre's mistakes, his Int % is lower than Starr's. What does that tell you?

[The Shadow]

While no fault of his, Starr played in an era with few minorities, which means a severely diminished talent pool.

While we pack fans love starr, some are letting their GB bias get in the way. Most would not put starr in the same league as Unitas or graham.

Starr is like Rich Gannon. A good caretaker of the offense, but no one should even think about putting him in the top 5 let alone top ten.

.................................................. .................................................. .....

I certainly understand the desire of younger Packer fans to want to have seen 'the best' - and so anoint Brett as alltime greatest Packer quarterback.
But, as a fan old enough to have had the privilege of following the careers of both Starr and Favre, I must reiterate my contention (and I know many here are sick of hearing it by now!) that although Brett Favre has far superior physical gifts, Starr was the overall superior quarterback.
At the most basic level : of what use is a rocket arm and all the talent in the world if your field generalship and judgment do not translate into wins?
Starr, with far more modest physical talent, simply won. What particularly stands out was his performance in the Ice Bowl, where he found a way to win even in the teeth of impossible conditions and situation.
The image of that final drive came to mind most recently when I watched the contrasting failure of this year's team in the Giants game.
Again, I understand completely that fans who 'grew up' with Favre want to regard him as 'best ever', but.....
Sorry, not being able to jump aboard bandwagons is yet another curse of having been around a long time.

You are making an argument that i didn't. Take favre outta the equation..which i clearly did. And, there is no desire for me to say that i saw the best...i'll take the words of professionals whose judgement i'll take over yours or others. Ron Wolf didn't rate Starr that high. Cowlishaw (granted writer) didn't have him in the top ten.

You are letting the past cloud your judgement.

Starr never had to carry at team. He never completed 200 passes in a season. He was a 4 time pro bowler in 15 YEARS.

Let's compare him to...and Bullldog will hate me for this..to another what i call system QB...Brady. Brady as a starter has more years in his short career of over 60% completion to Starr's 4..and one of those years he completed 92 passes or so.

The pack regularly ran the ball almost TWICE as much as they passed.

Don't worry about Favre making mistakes..he wouldn't have with those teams. When you are only passing 250 or so times. Look at his stats in 61 when he had to pass nearly 300 times...16 ints.

And, despite favre's mistakes, his Int % is lower than Starr's. What does that tell you?

.................................................. ..........................................

Sorry, Ty, but I watched them both; I am not relying on eras, stats, other opinions, etc. I watched them both (and a major part of Wolf's legacy DEPENDS on Favre, remember!).
Favre can throw it farther on his knees than Starr could upright. That's great.
But Starr in the snow and sub-zero temps against a formidable Dallas team in the waning minutes with a championship on the line?
Sometimes, my friend, stats don't tell the whole story.

[StPaulPackFan]

It would be interesting to see how these "people in the know" ranked Favre back in 1998. After winning 3 straight MVPs, making 2 SB appearances and winning 1 SB many were saying he was on his way to being the greatest of all time. Some even said he was already there. Unfortunately for Brett his dismal 2005 & 2006 seasons are fresh memories whereas his dominance of the mid 90's is a distant memory for most of today's "people in the know".

It will also be interesting to see how Manning and Brady are remembered 10 years from now if neither wins another SB or posts another another monster season along the way. Both are great QB's but the 49 and 50 TD seasons are anomolies compared to the rest of their careers. Regardless, I would wager that whoever the "hot" QB's are in 10 years will be pushing both down the list, waranted or not.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I like this poll, from a bunch of NFL TALENT EVALUATORS.
1. Unitas
2. Montana
3. Brady
4. Marino
5. Manning
6. Elway
7. Bradshaw
8. Favre
9. Graham
10. Fouts


As always, this discussion is pure opinion but I like taking peoples opinions that are in the know on what they are polling.

Might help to show the source. But, you wouldn't do that since it would CLEARLY show that it wasn't JUST talent evaluators.

"Marv Levy, Art Rooney Jr., Zeke Bratkowski, Ken Meyer, Larry Kennan, James Harris and Dick Haley helped ESPN.com evaluate the best quarterbacks in NFL history. ESPN.com weighed their contributions, balancing rankings with anecdotal evidence, to create the following list.

I'll take this list which has favre ahead of brady..yet again.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=139

[Tyrone Bigguns]

While no fault of his, Starr played in an era with few minorities, which means a severely diminished talent pool.

While we pack fans love starr, some are letting their GB bias get in the way. Most would not put starr in the same league as Unitas or graham.

Starr is like Rich Gannon. A good caretaker of the offense, but no one should even think about putting him in the top 5 let alone top ten.

.................................................. .................................................. .....

I certainly understand the desire of younger Packer fans to want to have seen 'the best' - and so anoint Brett as alltime greatest Packer quarterback.
But, as a fan old enough to have had the privilege of following the careers of both Starr and Favre, I must reiterate my contention (and I know many here are sick of hearing it by now!) that although Brett Favre has far superior physical gifts, Starr was the overall superior quarterback.
At the most basic level : of what use is a rocket arm and all the talent in the world if your field generalship and judgment do not translate into wins?
Starr, with far more modest physical talent, simply won. What particularly stands out was his performance in the Ice Bowl, where he found a way to win even in the teeth of impossible conditions and situation.
The image of that final drive came to mind most recently when I watched the contrasting failure of this year's team in the Giants game.
Again, I understand completely that fans who 'grew up' with Favre want to regard him as 'best ever', but.....
Sorry, not being able to jump aboard bandwagons is yet another curse of having been around a long time.

You are making an argument that i didn't. Take favre outta the equation..which i clearly did. And, there is no desire for me to say that i saw the best...i'll take the words of professionals whose judgement i'll take over yours or others. Ron Wolf didn't rate Starr that high. Cowlishaw (granted writer) didn't have him in the top ten.

You are letting the past cloud your judgement.

Starr never had to carry at team. He never completed 200 passes in a season. He was a 4 time pro bowler in 15 YEARS.

Let's compare him to...and Bullldog will hate me for this..to another what i call system QB...Brady. Brady as a starter has more years in his short career of over 60% completion to Starr's 4..and one of those years he completed 92 passes or so.

The pack regularly ran the ball almost TWICE as much as they passed.

Don't worry about Favre making mistakes..he wouldn't have with those teams. When you are only passing 250 or so times. Look at his stats in 61 when he had to pass nearly 300 times...16 ints.

And, despite favre's mistakes, his Int % is lower than Starr's. What does that tell you?

.................................................. ..........................................

Sorry, Ty, but I watched them both; I am not relying on eras, stats, other opinions, etc. I watched them both (and a major part of Wolf's legacy DEPENDS on Favre, remember!).
Favre can throw it farther on his knees than Starr could upright. That's great.
But Starr in the snow and sub-zero temps against a formidable Dallas team in the waning minutes with a championship on the line?
Sometimes, my friend, stats don't tell the whole story.

Neither do your eyes tell the whole story either.

I can just as easily say that you prefer to think things were better in the past.

Kind of easy to view Starr as great when you have HOW MANY HOFs on the team. How many HOFs will Favre have played with? Keith Jackson on offense..maybe Rison someday. Not one single HOF on the line..where the game is won. How many for the pack of starr? 'nuff said.

You can view things they way you want, but you are pretty much alone. Find us a list that puts Starr in the top ten and we will find 10 for every one of yours.

[The Shadow]

"You are letting the past cloud your judgement."


Sometimes an opinion going against the current grain is relegated to that particular old chestnut, I understand.
There are MANY things that cloud my judgment - but this is not one of them.
I watched both. I make my historical football evaluations based solely on what I directly observed. For example, I don't claim that every old player was 'better' than modern players - not at all. I also don't imagine that Lombardi's power sweep, with 240 lb guards leading the way, would be anything more today than probably a 3 yard loss.
But : football field general skills - the ability to find a way to move your team successfully in crunch time against all odds - do not disappear with new eras.
The ability to win - a bit different from mere 'ultra-competitive spirit -
does not change over time.

[Freak Out]

I think one of the guys that is rarely mentioned is one of the best ever: Kenny Anderson from little Augustana college! I won't bother with any stats but I just remember him as one of the best I have ever seen on the field....right up there with Montana, Fouts, Favre, Marino and so on. I think he won an MVP and probably should have won another......as well as a SB.

Damn I wanted the Bengals to win that game.