Rough time at bargaining table

[HarveyWallbangers]

No way I'd tag him. I'd let him walk. Use the money to tie up more important players long-term.

[RashanGary]

We'll know what Ted decides to do within 4 days. The deadline is the 21st. A week after that, the frenzy begins. It should be a fun two months leading up to the draft.

[Deputy Nutz]

No way I'd tag him. I'd let him walk. Use the money to tie up more important players long-term.

See this is what some on here don't understand. the Packers have 26 million dollars in cap space that doesn't need to go to signing new free agents or their own free agents. They can front load extended contracts to guys that will be free agents in 2008 and 2009.

[RashanGary]

I think he's going to get tagged. It makes the most sense.

[red]

i agree with what someone said about pissing off everyone else on the team that is more important if you franchise him. like kampman, pickett or jenkins. they are all better players

we have a plethora of talent at DT, that are all very close to each other talent wise IMO. why overspend to keep one of them? even if we can easily afford it, it just sets a horrible example of overspending when you really don't need too.

this is reminding me of another young DT. CLEDIUS HUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

course CW is not a fat lazy pot head, and he has actually showed some potential. but we still might end up paying top dollar for a guy thats just a backup

[RashanGary]

i agree with what someone said about pissing off everyone else on the team that is more important if you franchise him. like kampman, pickett or jenkins. they are all better players

we have a plethora of talent at DT, that are all very close to each other talent wise IMO. why overspend to keep one of them? even if we can easily afford it, it just sets a horrible example of overspending when you really don't need too.

this is reminding me of another young DT. CLEDIUS HUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

course CW is not a fat lazy pot head, and he has actually showed some potential. but we still might end up paying top dollar for a guy thats just a backup

No, Jenkins gets 4 mil per. Williams is probably more valuable than that. Plus the price to play goes up every year. Players understand this.

You know what wont' sit will with Kampman and Pickett? If Williams hits UFA and strikes a deal averageing 8.5 million per year with 18 mil up front. Crazy as it sounds, UFA is acctually that crazy. If htye see him leave on a 6 year, 50 million dollar deal you can bet they'll be a lot more pissed than if he gets a one year 6.25 million dollar deal.

There is a little pressure to not let him get away just because it will show everyoen else what they are really worth. The tag does two things, it lessens the chance of revolt because 6.25 is fair in comparision to what Jenkins got and his UFA deal most certainly will not be. The other reason is because C-dub is a really good player and the franchise tag is low right now. He's worth it.

[Guiness]

6.5 for a guy who got 1 sack and 14 tackles in his last 8 games as a starter is a tad steep imo. I hope he goes if he only stays if we over pay him.

Why don't you judge him over the past two years ? Why just select the last 8 games ?

I think you're just playing devil's advocate here and you know the reason here...because that's when he was finally called on to be a 'starter' as opposed to 'situational'.

I put quotes around those words because I don't feel they apply. Is Jolly a starter just because he's in at the beginning of the game? By definition only. It just happens to be a running situation.

Obviously, he didn't excel playing obvious running situations - same as KGB didn't when Sherman started putting him in on first down. Then, same as KGB, it seemed to affect the rest of his game.

Although I agree that he's not one of the top 5 DT's in the league, the FT is not about that, and we all know it. It might've been intended that way, and would be if the cap was more stable, but with the cap jumping every year, it's become just a way to retain the services of a good player.

[vince]

JH, you are often correct when analyzing situations like this and making predictions, but I'm throwing down along side Harv, bulldog, joe, etc. on this one. (Sorry to ruin your argument guys.)

Use the money to lock someone up that is part of the long-term plan. I don't think we'll be any worse off for having Harrell, Cole and possibly Muir part of the regular rotation next year. I think Cole is as good as he's going to get, but its very reasonable to expect Harrelll and even Muir to come off their first offseason program as improved professionals. Harrell's athletic enough to have a good chance at becoming a pass rusher in addition to run stuffer.

[RashanGary]

I acctually think there is a good chance Williams is our 4th best tackle next year but we could have some very good ones so it's not that big of a knock.

Pickett is better
Jolly is better and should be even more so next year.
Harrell (I have a lot of confidence in him. He's talented, but he also loves football, has a knack for the game and is willing to work at it)


However, as we found out last year, three good ones aren't enough for the whole year. It's greedy, but I acctually think you need four or five capable DT's and if you have 4 starters, that's not a waste of cap space because they are all used.

I completely disagree with your assesment of Cole. I think he's below average and any time he's playing he makes the team worse. I don't want to count on him. As far as Muir goes, he showed a pretty explosive first step when he played. He could be a good pass rusher from the interior, but I just don't know enough yet so I just can't base my opinion on expecting Muir or Cole to be the guy when we get that one inevitable injury or when we need a rotation player.

Ultimately it's in the hands of TT to make the call. I'll go along with whatever he does but my initial opinion is that Williams is worth the 6.25. If he doesn't get tagged, I think we're all going to look like this when his contract numbers come out. I think that tag is going to look like a bargain.

[RashanGary]

IF Williams makes it to UFA, I'm predicting his contract to be in the 6 year, 45 million dollar range with about 15 up front.

We're the only team that has the one year, 6.25 option and you have to remember this is the best year of the rest of his career as far as him being in his physical prime.

We'll see, Vince. I see the arguement against him but I think there is more value to the #4 DT than the third starting LB or starting FB. I just think it's a very important position and we have the option between impact and a weakness and it only costs a one year commitment of 6.25 to have impact. You also have to remember that having him trickles down to everyone else. By resting Pickett, Jolly and Harrell they'll all be better when they're in. By having Williams, you can sit down the other guys if they have a moderate knee or ankle rather than forcing them through it. Over the course of the year, that depth would pay off even if it costs 6.25.

[vince]

I wouldn't be the least bit upset if Williams is tagged either.

[Bretsky]

JH, you are often correct when analyzing situations like this and making predictions, but I'm throwing down along side Harv, bulldog, joe, etc. on this one. (Sorry to ruin your argument guys.)

Use the money to lock someone up that is part of the long-term plan. I don't think we'll be any worse off for having Harrell, Cole and possibly Muir part of the regular rotation next year. I think Cole is as good as he's going to get, but its very reasonable to expect Harrelll and even Muir to come off their first offseason program as improved professionals. Harrell's athletic enough to have a good chance at becoming a pass rusher in addition to run stuffer.

Hey, you haven't ruined any argument from what I can see

I can certainly see the view of those that don't want to throw the franchise on CW because it may offend others or he's simply not worth it....or not part of a longer term plan.

But Coll or Muhr ? I won't count on those guys for much at this point.

Cole is an end of the depth chart DL. Good enough to make a roster IMO but not much more. Nowhere near Williams.

Muhr, we have no idea what we have in him. He's shown glimpses I guess. But it certainly a stretch to count on these two IMO to pick up any slack left from Williams departure.

We could say the same for Harrell as well, although based on his college career it would be reasonable for him to develop into being solid soon.

[Guiness]

I'd generally agree that they should lock guys up Vince, but who do you suggest? No one jumps out at me as needing a new deal.

A couple could stand upgrades. Jolly, but as was pointed out elsewhere, they've got him cheap for a while. Grant - same situation. GJ? Don't know what he's got left. Other than that, there's not a lot that have proven themselves worthy. The proven players on D are locked up, and the rest haven't shown themselves to be anything more than 'just guys'. They're not going to throw money at Montgomery or Walker! An argument could be made for Bigby, but that's it.

What should've happened is that they should have locked up Williams LAST offseason. Hindsight's 20-20 though...

[Bretsky]

I'd generally agree that they should lock guys up Vince, but who do you suggest? No one jumps out at me as needing a new deal.

A couple could stand upgrades. Jolly, but as was pointed out elsewhere, they've got him cheap for a while. Grant - same situation. GJ? Don't know what he's got left. Other than that, there's not a lot that have proven themselves worthy. The proven players on D are locked up, and the rest haven't shown themselves to be anything more than 'just guys'. They're not going to throw money at Montgomery or Walker! An argument could be made for Bigby, but that's it.

What should've happened is that they should have locked up Williams LAST offseason. Hindsight's 20-20 though...

Bingo; part of the reasoning to consider franchising CW is the rising cap, the fact that we are in good shape, and nobdoy near term we have to lock up. Of course part of Vince's views is we should lock Grant up now.....but that is a whole nother argument that has already been debated in some detail.

[Guiness]

Ultimately it's in the hands of TT to make the call. I'll go along with whatever he does but my initial opinion is that Williams is worth the 6.25. If he doesn't get tagged, I think we're all going to look like this when his contract numbers come out. I think that tag is going to look like a bargain.

Fully agree with the . Someone's going to look and say "How many sacks? From a DT??? Give him the bank!!!"