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[The Leaper]

Just waiting for that, funny thing is both of those players got votes to be allpro

So what's your point? That Pro Bowl voting is the end-all of determining who is good?

The Pro Bowl is a hideous joke in terms of recognizing who really are the best players in the NFL. The fact that Charles Woodson was not at the Pro Bowl is proof enough that you need to dump your corny "he got Pro Bowl votes" schtick.

[Zool]

The fact that Charles Woodson was not at the Pro Bowl is proof enough that you need to dump your corny "he got Pro Bowl votes" schtick.

You would think so, but stats to support arguments are easy to come by for every side.

[Lurker64]

The Pro Bowl is a hideous joke in terms of recognizing who really are the best players in the NFL.

100% agreed. Players get into the probowl based on a combination of reputation, media hype, and statistics. "Actual on the field performance" is nowhere to be found in most pro-bowl voters evaluations. Realistically, the only people who watch every team close enough to have a good shot at honestly ranking who the best players are at each position are NFL scouts. The players and the coaches are too busy to watch all 31 other teams closely, and the fans don't watch all 32 teams extremely closely.

If there was a pro-bowl where the only elligible voters were NFL scouts and GMs, I would watch it though.

[ND72]

Just waiting for that, funny thing is both of those players got votes to be allpro Didn't see the great one get a single vote.
Ryans started for the AFC in the probowl also.
Cromartie and mario also got votes for the allpro team, I think all of these players were from the same draft where many said Hawk is the best Dplayer in the draft

This isn't even fun anymore cause your CLEARLY WRONG!!!!

Wanna know what I care about? We were in the NFC Championship, how did the Lions, Jets, Texans do? You can argue all day about this, but if AJ Hawk or Barnett were on any of those losing teams, they'd both be putting up big time numbers, cause they all have HORRIBLE DEFENSES.

[b bulldog]

Allpro is very different than probowl. I said allpro, not probowl!

[b bulldog]

Actually one could also say that if they wee on a bad team, they would be game planned for much more than what they are now and could possibly make less but in hawk's case that might be hard to do.

[b bulldog]

The media people who follow football do the allpro voting, fans vote for the players who go to hawaii, not the allpro team. Ryans started in the probowl but also recieved allpro votes.

[b bulldog]

Mario Williams, 8 votes
Ernie Sims, 1 vote
DeMaco Ryans, 19 votes
Antonio Cromartie, 20 votes

All of these players were drafted in the same class as Hawk.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Without question, I'd take Hawk over Sims. Hard to compare Ryans and Hawk. Hawk plays WLB on a team that doesn't blitz much. You aren't going to get stats and glory covering TEs all days. Stats show Hawk is damn good at what they ask him to do. Much to your apparent dismay, Hawk is pretty damn good.

At least, Thompson didn't blow a pick on somebody as crappy as Vince Young. I guess I was spot on about Young. I think it was you who accused me of being racist because I had doubts about Young's shotput like throwing motion. Guess you were wrong there also.

[Charles Woodson]

Ernie Sims, 1 vote

[

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ernie Sims, 1 vote

[

Dang...he almost looks as good as me!!!

[b bulldog]

Young will be fine imo, he had one good year and one bad year but the jury is still out on him. he played very poorly this past season but I think he'll be better but I definitely could be wrong. Without question, I already knew what you'd do so I guess I'd post some stuff about the players that Hawk was drafted with. I guess without question, Hawk was the one that didn't get a vote.

[b bulldog]

Tyrone, you must really look good

[Charles Woodson]

Mario Williams, 8 votes
Ernie Sims, 1 vote
DeMaco Ryans, 19 votes
Antonio Cromartie, 20 votes

All of these players were drafted in the same class as Hawk.

Williams didn't do anything last year

Imo hawk had a better year than sims.

Im not buying a whole lot into ryans, because most mlb have alot of tackles.

Cromartie was a huge risk that the chargers are reaping the benefits.

[b bulldog]

mario didn't do anything last season?
Sims had a better year than Hawk.
Ryans was the Drookie of the year and is thought of as one of the best MLB's in the game already.
Cromartie is a stud at corner and his play on the field clearly shows that.
Hawk is solid and excels in space but lacks near the line of scrimmage.