Over Rated???

[jack's smirking revenge]

Sacks for an NT are misleading. No defensive player in the league was in the Packers backfield last year wreaking havoc than pat williams.

I agree. I don't really expect an NT to get many sacks. But if the argument involves getting into the face of a QB, then a sack should follow. An NT shouldn't get in the face of a QB and NOT follow through with a sack. If a sack doesn't follow, then either the QB is Mike Vick or Jake the Snake or the NT is just plain sloooooooooooow.

The state of the tackles is what really gets me. If a defense is allowing more than 100 yards rushing a game and the starting NTs are only getting 2 tackes/game, there's something wrong....

tyler

[MadtownPacker]

Lol, what about the Burger King guy. The King or whatever.

Hell No!! He was a playmaker in 2005. Didnt you see all his TDs? He evn played on D and ST. I wish TT could hasve signed him.

Great topic Mazzzin and I agree ron mexico is #1 followed by Kurt Warner.

[AtlPackFan]

Re: Over Rated???

Who would you say is the most over-rated player in the NFL? Why?


My Answer: Mike Vick

Why? Because living in Ga. all of everyone I went to school with thought he was the most oustanding player to ever grace the game. I will admit he is fun to watch...RUN...but to watch him throw is just plain ole' painful. HOW DOES THIS MAN MAKE THE PROBOWL...

P.s. ATLPACKFAN if you read this I feel for you!

Mazzin, I wholeheartedly agree. It's Vick, Vick, Vick!!! I don't give a crap HOW strong his arm is or HOW fast he is. He can't stand in the pocket and win games and defenses have figured out that if you can corral him, keep IN a pocket, he isn't going to beat you...at least not consistent enough to win against good teams. He would probably be an all-star in Canada. Can you imagine him and Ricky on the same team? Awesome!

[Guiness]

Come on - I'm sure you've seen Grady blow by the center and guard, and get in the QB's face at least a few times in the past couple years.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think their strength is that they're two-gappers and great at shutting down the run. Neither of them are known for their speed. And, no, other than Grady being injured quite a bit, I don't recall him being a regular presence in the face of QBs. His numbers?

tyler

You're right, his numbers are poor, but numbers really don't tell the tale for NTs. As far as last year, I saw a couple of articles talking about how in the Bates system, Grady was expected to hold his ground, and not penetrate. Hence the lack of sacks.

I felt he did other things. He was able to penetrate the backfield and pressure the QB through the middle of the line. I've also seen him draw holding penalties from inside linemen because they wrap an arm around him.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think he's a great player, but he is certainly at least mediocre.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Come on - I'm sure you've seen Grady blow by the center and guard, and get in the QB's face at least a few times in the past couple years.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think their strength is that they're two-gappers and great at shutting down the run. Neither of them are known for their speed. And, no, other than Grady being injured quite a bit, I don't recall him being a regular presence in the face of QBs. His numbers?

tyler

You're right, his numbers are poor, but numbers really don't tell the tale for NTs. As far as last year, I saw a couple of articles talking about how in the Bates system, Grady was expected to hold his ground, and not penetrate. Hence the lack of sacks.

I felt he did other things. He was able to penetrate the backfield and pressure the QB through the middle of the line. I've also seen him draw holding penalties from inside linemen because they wrap an arm around him.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think he's a great player, but he is certainly at least mediocre.

I will totally agree with you that he is mediocre. To me, overrated doesn't mean he's worthless; its just that people overvalue him. Grady could be a decent 20-30 snaps/game player for some team. I personally don't think a multi-millionaire defender should play for 10-15 minutes of a game. Someone with that kind of salary demand and self-importance should be on the field as much as possible. I just don't see that with Grady; the more you use him, the less useable he is.

tyler

[Merlin]

Re: Over Rated???

Who would you say is the most over-rated player in the NFL? Why?


My Answer: Mike Vick

Why? Because living in Ga. all of everyone I went to school with thought he was the most oustanding player to ever grace the game. I will admit he is fun to watch...RUN...but to watch him throw is just plain ole' painful. HOW DOES THIS MAN MAKE THE PROBOWL...

P.s. ATLPACKFAN if you read this I feel for you!

I whole heartedly agree with this!!

Michael Vick made the 2004 Probowl and Favre did not:

NAME COM ATT PCT YDS YPA LNG TD TD% INT INT% SK SYD RAT
B. Favre QB, GNB 346 540 64.1 4088 7.57 79 30 5.6 17 3.1 12.0 93 92.4
M. Vick QB, ATL 181 321 56.4 2313 7.21 62 14 4.4 12 3.7 46.0 266 78.1

GIVE ME A BREAK!

[jack's smirking revenge]

To be fair, he didn't make the Pro Bowl in 2004 solely as a QB.

Rushing
Att Yards Avg Long TDs
120 902 7.5 58 3

He almost had 1,000 yds rushing as a QB. Many NFL RBs don't even get that many touches or yards.

tyler

[Mazzin]

Why not play friggin running back or return kicks if you can't throw for a damned?

[Guiness]

Actually, he has a great arm - his throws are impressive. He just doesn't know when to use it.

Cunninham was like that in his early days with Philly. He could draw the D to him, and throw on the run as well as anybody. However, too often he just tucked it away, and took a 3 yard gain.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, he has a great arm - his throws are impressive. He just doesn't know when to use it.

Cunninham was like that in his early days with Philly. He could draw the D to him, and throw on the run as well as anybody. However, too often he just tucked it away, and took a 3 yard gain.

He has a strong arm... not a great arm. He's not very accurate.

At this point, Vick is neither underrated or overrated. He's one of the better players in the league. He's dynamic. He's hard to scheme for. He's also inconsistent and inaccurate. However, his teams win. Win he starts in his career, Atlanta wins. When he doesn't start in his career, they don't win. The win-loss percentage is striking. Anybody who saw him at Lambeau in the regular season or playoffs or at Metrodome against the Vikings a few years ago should realize how dynamic he is. He's a difference maker.

[Guiness]

HW - you're right that Atl does a lot better when he's on the field than off. But I wonder how much of the losing that occurs when he's not there has to do with the way the 'O' is built to suit him?

The OL isn't designed to make a pocket for a prototypical passer. It's designed to roll out and block for him.

Who was that guy that started for Vick when he broke his leg? He was a drop back passer, and didn't have a hope.

[Mazzin]

It was actually Matt Schaub. He is awesome I belive they almost got a 1st or second from someone out there for him...


Also whoever compared Vick to Randall Cunningham. WOW?