EXTREMELY Deep at OT

[Tyrone Bigguns]

One more thing, UM wr's have struggled in the NFL and we are talking about guys with much more talent than Mario has.

More talent? That would be subjective at best..and struggling. Again, highly subjective.

Who has struggled?

Breaston wasn't drafted as WR by the Cards..returner and he did quite well. Not as talented.

Avant was a 4th rounder. 23 catches last year..17 yard average. Decent for a 4th rounder. Consistent special teamer as well. Despite winning Biletnikoff is wasn't as talented as MM.

Braylon looked great this year. He is a STAR.

M. Walker. Got hurt. And was never fast. Big, good body control..long strider. Hence the 3rd round selection. Not as talented as MM.

David terrell. Busto.

Tai Streets. 6th round pick. Not anywhere near as talented. Played 6 seasons. By any standards that is successful for a sixth.

How far do you want me to go? Your statement off base by a mile.

I viewed David Terrell as a much better player going into the pros. But from the sounds of it he was an immature punk

Terrell was definitely rated higher...went 8th. Good size and speed. But, definitely immature.

Funny thing, for as "bad" as he was...still played 6 years in the NFL.

And, when he played a whole season..he put up some #s. 34, 43, 42 catches in 16 games with bears...12, 8, 16 average per catch. But, was never a TD machine.

I don't wanna make excuses for him..but, it was the bears. Changes at HC and OC and NINE QBs. NINE!!!!

[b bulldog]

TERRELL was helped in school by very good talent around him and that he was going against college db's.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Tai Streets was injured and that was why he lasted as long as he did. If he was healthy, he would have probably been at worst a second round pick. Avant and BreaSty are special teamers, I wouldn't count those guys. Braylon is his third year had a break out year, before this year, many thought he may be a bust. terrell was another WR who was thought to be a stud and was a dud. Streets if he remained healthy had as much talent as MM imo and Edwards and Terrell had much moe talent, one was a bust and one has had one good year so far.

You are now backtracking. The point was that they were more talented and struggled.

Streets: Yes, he had an achilles, but he came back and played and didn't stuggle. Wrong.

Braylon: Receiver is very hard to do well in your first year. I think 32 catches in 10 games is just fine. And, 61 catches the following year with 6 TDs is showing progress. The only people saying bust were idiots that don't understand football...as he didn't have a decent QB till last year. But, again...you are WRONG. He didn't struggle.

So, you have one receiver that didn't make it as talented. Sorry, that doesn't make your argument. And, even Terrell when playing didn't struggle. His stats bely your statement. Was he a bust for where he was picked. Sure. by 32 catches his rookie year is good. Especially when you consider his Qbs that year were Shane Mathews and Jim Miller. LOL

In 03 they had at starter Kordel, Chris Chandler and Rex. Pretty hard for any WR to do well with that bunch.

In 04 they trotted out Krenzel (Oh my fucking god), Chad Hutchinson (oh my fucking god), and Jonathan Quinn (OMFG), and Rex.

I'm no apologist but Rice woulda had a hard time catching 60 balls from that motley crew.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

TERRELL was helped in school by very good talent around him and that he was going against college db's.

College dbs..is that different than other college WRs? Do they go against pro Db's.

Are you trying to argue now that he wasn't as good as he appeared? that would go against your premise.

[b bulldog]

No my point was althopugh he was talented, playing against subpar talent in college probably made him look like an elite wr when truely he wasn't but I still think Streets, Edwards and Terrell were much more gifted as WR's than MM and one of these three players has had a good season so I wouldn't say that I'm wrong at all.

[b bulldog]

Streets didn't STRUGGLE?? Many thought he was going to be a steal for the 49ers when he was drafted and he had a lousey NFL career from what his expectations were in Ann Arbor.

Edwards was thought to be a stud WR and he finally has had one good year this paast year. Many in the NFL were calling him a bust until last season as were many in here. i'd say he 's ben a disappointment from where he was picked and to change that he needs to have another strong year this year.

Terrell, he has had stints in denver and New England also, he ius a huuuuuge bust.

Say what you may but I think your wrong and Bretsky even has chided me about the lack of production of UM skill players at the NFL.

[b bulldog]

oNE MORE THING, MM HAS ONLY had one season where he had over 1000 yards recieving at UM, many michigan wr's have done that.

[Joemailman]

Big guys can also eat themselves out of the league.

We'll call him Heath "Ham And Eggs" Bennedict.

[b bulldog]

Marquise Wlker, derrick Aleaxander, David Terrell, Desmond Howard, Tai Streets, Braylon Edwards have all had pretty big careers at UM as did MM even though he has only had one 1000 yard season. All of these players at the WR postion have been busts except for Edwards and he has averaged 55 catches, 880 yards and 8 tds a season in three years of playing NFL ball. He has accomplished this being the 3rd overall pick in the NFL draft, I do not call that great by no means, kind of disappointing actually.

This just shows that many UM WR's that have had the same type of careers at UM as MM has had, have been flops in the NFL.

[RashanGary]

Manningham ran a 4.59

Clearly not a blazer. Makes you wonder how he got so open so often in College.

[RashanGary]

Aqib Talib ran a 4.51

He's supposed to be a hellofa CB. It would be nice if some teams pass him over because of his speed.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Streets didn't STRUGGLE?? Many thought he was going to be a steal for the 49ers when he was drafted and he had a lousey NFL career from what his expectations were in Ann Arbor.

Edwards was thought to be a stud WR and he finally has had one good year this paast year. Many in the NFL were calling him a bust until last season as were many in here. i'd say he 's ben a disappointment from where he was picked and to change that he needs to have another strong year this year.

Terrell, he has had stints in denver and New England also, he ius a huuuuuge bust.

Say what you may but I think your wrong and Bretsky even has chided me about the lack of production of UM skill players at the NFL.

Wow. Talk about switching your argument. Now, it is the EXPECTATIONS from Ann Arbor. Not that they would be...unrealistic or anything.

I question now whether you can even read and comprehend as I said Terrell was a bust.

First, EVERYONE knows that very few WRs make an impact their rookie year. It is one of the hardest positions to make an impact.

Streets didn't struggle. He grabbed the 3rd receiver and then was the #2. That isn't struggling. While he might live up to expectations, that isn't struggling. You keep saying that he was injured and that if not he woulda been a second. So, if he was injured, why isn't that taken into account for his production? You are ridiculous. The problem with you is you are completely oblivious to reality. Tai streets after the injury was not fast. He was a big, long striding possesion receiver. You keep trying to make it out like he was a 2nd..sorry, he was 6th. And, if teams really thought he could be more..they woulda drafted him higher...it didn't stop Magahee. He ran a 4.55 before the draft. Are you kidding me? That isn't a superstar.

I've gone thru this already, and you are wrong. Either they weren't as talented..or they didn't struggle.

And,no matter how many times you say it..nobody thought Edwards was a bust. They may have felt he could do better. But, 60 catches and 6 tds in his second year isn't a bust.

You are so ridiculous...edwards #s are basically the same as jennings in his rookie year..ratio wise.

And, while players had good careers at UM that is COLLEGE. Clearly the NFL evaluators didn't buy into the UM hype or cool names like Mercury Hayes. Take off your blue and gold glasses. Just because they play for UM and got tv exposure doens't mean they were all great.

The problem for UM was that they liked the big WRs..Walker, Terrell, Streets..but, exept for Terrell they weren't fast. Walker was a 3rd round pick because he was "criticized for his lack of straight-line speed and ability to gain separation without using his other physical skills. He also was fighting the notion that he is merely a possession receiver." POSSESSION RECEIVER.

And, since he was like most UM WRs..he didn't/couldn't play ST, which is crucial if you aren't a starter. Regardless, he was nowhere near the talent MM has.

Just like I could say that Donald Hayes and Tony Simmons had great UW careers and didn't pan out. Has no relevance.

Bottom line: The problem for UM receivers for the most part is that you guys ran such a simplistic offense that your receivers struggle to learn a pro style offense. Walker was quickly outted on that by Gruden. Embarrassed him in front of fans, media and his teammates..when he couldn't give the correct formations and routes when gruden barked the plays.

BTW, i love how you bring up all the UM receivers...LOL. Convenient to leave out Toomer and AC. If you bring up Desmond you should at least bring up toomer.

[b bulldog]

THIRD PICK IN THE DRAFT AND 800 YARDS A YEAR IS GREAT, YOUR EITHER CRAZY OR JUST PLAIN STUPID. The only wr who has exceeded expectations from UM is Anthoney Carter while UM has had 4 college All-American Wr's, that is better than MM and three have flopped and one has had one good year in three years. Your wrong as usual and my facts point that out. It makes my day when the facts clearly show you wrong.

[b bulldog]

Amani Toomer for a second round pick has done what one would think a second rounder would do, nothing more, nothing less. He had ssome pretty good seasons and some pretty bad seasons.

[b bulldog]

Actually Um has usually had one bigger WR and also one smaller WR to make a pretty good pair.