Top 7 QB's of all time

[The Leaper]

The team changed significantly from 1960-1964 to 1965-1967. In the early years, you didn't even think much about the passing game. In the later years most every significant play on offense was from Starr. The running game was very ho-hum

Fine.

But all those "significant" plays from Starr netted 4 less yards passing a game than when we didn't even think about the passing game...according to you, anyway.

So how does that suggest that Starr is capable of carrying a team? Let me answer...IT DOESN'T.

I've always thought the success of Green Bay in the later years of the Lombardi dynasty were due primarily to the defense. The defense in the early years was not a playmaking group...didn't have to be, because as you pointed out the offense dominated so much on the ground that the defense rarely saw the field. Lombardi drafted many of his future defensive studs in those early years...and by the mid 1960s, the defense was a much greater force for the Packers because of guys like Wood, Nitschke, Davis and Adderly all hitting their prime together.

But, old farts continue to jack off to Bart Starr...and neglect to ever mention the incredible defense that was far better than any defense Brett Favre ever played with...including the Super Bowl champion team. Shadow sits here and has the audacity to claim that Favre could only win with the talent on the 1996 team...when Starr had a better team than that around him for 6-7 years!

That defense was downright nasty...and carried that Packer squad quite a bit in the later years of the Lombardi dynasty. Again...that isn't to say that Starr contributed too...just that claiming Starr was the catalyst for success in 1965 or 1966 ignores the HOF caliber stars on defense for the Packers.

Who did Favre have on defense in 2002 supporting him? Or 2004? The Packers defense was a sieve. Favre by himself practically carried the team to the Super Bowl in 2004. When did Starr ever accomplish that? He didn't have to during the Lombardi years...and he proved woefully inept when he wasn't surrounded by great HOF caliber talent.

[HarveyWallbangers]

All in all, the backs Favre had in SBXXXI, Bennett, Levens and Henderson were every bit as good, if not better than the backs Starr had in SBI and SBII. Chmura and Jackson were far better receiving tight ends than was Marv Fleming. With Dowler out in Super Bowl I, the receiver's Favre had compared quite favorably. The defense supporting Favre in SBXXXI was as good as anything Starr had from about '65 on.

This idea that Starr played with a completely dominating team throughout the '60s is wrong. Early they did dominate, but as they aged injuries started to play a significant factor, and the replacements were not nearly as good. At the time of the mid and late '60s, Starr was acknowledged as the key element of the offense.

This is valid, but the Packers won the Super Bowl in 1996 and would have won without an aging defense the next year. I don't think people that argue for Favre argue that in those two years Favre didn't have a good supporting cast. It's the other years.

Favre has had decent RBs. Ahman was a very good RB. Levens was a good back for a couple of years. Bennett was decent. However, he only had Keith Jackson for a couple of years. His WRs left something to be desired. Sharpe was great. Others have been solid, but playing on a different team, they likely wouldn't have put up great numbers. His OLs were only good for a few years in the early to mid 2000s. Two even bigger factors though are that Favre hasn't played with a great defense (outside of maybe a couple of years). The 1996 defense was great, but they aged dramatically by the end of 1997. He also hasn't had Vince Lombardi as his coach. Lombardi was there for all of Starr's great years. Favre has had Holmgren, Rhodes, Sherman, and McCarthy. Not exactly a Hall of Fame coach. Favre had a great GM, but FA handcuffed his ability to keep a championship team together. As evidenced by his career before and after Lombardi, it sure seems like Lombardi made a HUGE difference.

Of course, Starr can never win with the Lombardi argument. Some think Starr wasn't a top 10 or 15 QB. Some classify him as a winner, and think he's easily a top 5 QB. I tend to take the in between. I'd rate him at the edge of the top 10. He was the QB for the greatest dynasty in the last 50 years, but he did play on a great team in an era when it was much easier to create and maintain a dynasty (because there weren't as many teams and there was no FA).

For me, when I think about Baltimore and San Francisco, I think of Unitas and Montana as the biggest reasons they won. When I think about the 60s Packers, I think of Lombardi and then Starr and a great defense. That's why Lombardi's name is on the biggest trophy in pro football.

[vince]

Here's a list for Shadow...

The Definitive List

The 10 Best Quarterbacks of All Time [and it's a Fact]
By Kerry J. Byrne
Cold, Hard Football Facts issuer of edicts

There’s a lot of talk lately about Tom Brady’s status among the all-time greats, especially as he prepares for Super Bowl XLII, his every move hounded by the paparazzi in a way no quarterback has experienced since Broadway Joe rocked the Apple 40 years ago.

Is the New England signal-caller the best ever at his position? All the “pundits” and talking heads are asking the same question.

You will not find a bigger group of Tom Brady rump-swabs than the Cold, Hard Football Facts crew. But best ever?

Sorry folks. Not yet.

He’s definitely worked his way onto the short list, there’s no denying that fact. And he has pieced together the greatest first eight years by a quarterback in NFL history.

But let’s remember, there have been a few other fair country quarterbacks in the nearly 70 years since it evolved into the position we know it today (primary passer and signal caller).

So where does Brady rank among the best ever? The ultimate Top 10 list appears below.

Our list will differ than most others. These lists normally begin with inherent human biases and are created by people who believe John Elway invented football at Stanford in 1982. Let’s put it this way: if Dan Fouts is on a Top 10 list of best quarterbacks ever and not, say, Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh, the author is a moron.

Fortunately, the Cold, Hard Football Facts have memories as long as the trail of humiliation we suffered at the hands of the cool kids in high school. So our list spans the full breadth of the position, measuring passers in several key areas: statistical production (in the context of their era), intangibles such as leadership, impact on a team's fortunes and, of course, championships. As we've long noted, passers who play well in the postseason win games. Passers who do not play well in the postseason lose games. So, championships, particularly multiple championships, are often a pretty solid indicator of a quarterback who consistently played well in big games.

There will be bitching and moaning about who made the cut and who didn’t. But that's part of the fun of these lists, isn't it? Plus, just ask yourself – who would you pull of this list to make room for your favorite quarterback, especially considering that, if he's not on this list, he doesn't belong on this list. (Apologies to the greats who came closest to making our list: Dan Marino, Sid Luckman, Norm Van Brocklin, Terry Bradshaw, Sonny Jurgensen, Y.A. Tittle and John Elway.)

Here, then, is the list of the 10 best quarterbacks in NFL history. Keep in mind that all other lists are wrong. Only this list is correct.

10. BRETT FAVRE
(Atlanta, 1991; Green Bay, 1992-present)
Best season (1996): 325 for 543 (59.9%), 3,899 yards, 7.2 YPA, 39 TD, 13 INT, 95.8 passer rating
Career: 5,377 for 8,758 (61.4%), 61,657 yards, 7.0 YPA, 442 TD, 288 INT, 85.7 passer rating
Championships: 1996
Overview: All you need to know about Favre is this: he holds every single volume passing number in NFL history: completions, attempts, yards, TDs and even INTs.

And for a three-year period from 1995 to 1997, he played the position as well (and as excitingly) as any passer in history, tossing 112 TD passes to 42 INT.

Despite it all, he might not have even made the list if we published this back in August. He had been a mediocre (in 2000 and 2006) to even a bad quarterback (2005) over many of the past several seasons. But he responded with perhaps the greatest statistical season of his career here in 2007 – no small feat for a 38-year-old warrior who guided his young team into the NFC championship game for the first time in 10 years. Of course, shades of the “Old Yeller” Favre haunted Green Bay in that game, as he tossed a critical pick in OT that handed the Giants an easy opportunity to score the game-winning points. There have been a handful of disastrous postseason “gunslinger’ moments over the past decade – and they’re the only thing keeping Favre, the most productive passer in history, from earning a spot much higher on the list.

9. PEYTON MANNING
(Indianapolis, 1998-present)
Best season (2004): 336 for 497 (67.6%), 4,557 yards, 9.2 YPA, 49 TD, 10 INT, 121.1 passer rating
Career: 3,468 for 5,405 (64.2%), 41,626, 7.7 YPA, 306 TD, 153 INT, 94.7 passer rating
Championships: 2006
Overview: What else can you say? Manning has basically done everything faster than every quarterback in the history of football – even faster than the original QB stat monster, Dan Marino.

Here’s how their careers stack up after 10 NFL seasons:

Manning: 3,468 for 5,405 (64.2%), 41,626, 7.7 YPA, 306 TD, 153 INT, 94.7 passer rating
Marino: 3,128 for 5,284, (59.2%), 39,502, 7.5 YPA, 290 TD, 165 INT, 87.8 passer rating

Manning bests Marino in every single category at this point in their careers and, most importantly, in the efficiency categories (completion percentage, YPA, passer rating). All of which, of course, puts Manning on pace to shatter every single passing record in the history of the game. And, don’t forget, Marino played his best ball early in his career. His best season was his second. Manning continues to pick up steam. As of today, Manning has the second best career passer rating in NFL history (94.7), with record-holder Steve Young (96.8) well in his sites.

The knock on Manning has always been that he doesn’t play well in the postseason. That argument became harder to make after he picked up a Super Bowl title – and Super Bowl MVP award – last season. But save for an utterly brilliant second half against his former nemesis New England, he did struggle even during his Super Bowl-winning postseason run. It’s the only thing keeping him right now at No. 9. But the sky remains the limit for the most productive passer we’ve ever seen.

He’s also one of the great NFL ironmen: Manning has NEVER missed a game in a pro career that began a decade ago and now numbers 160 consecutive starts in 160 opportunities (174 including postseason).

A couple more brilliant seasons – and more importantly, another ring or two – and Manning could find himself at the top of the list.

8. STEVE YOUNG (Tampa Bay, 1985-86; San Francisco, 1987-99)
Best season (1994): 324 for 461, 70.3%, 3,969 yards, 8.6 YPA, 35 TD, 10 INT, 112.8 passer rating
Career: 2,667 for 4,149, 64.3, 33,124, 8.0 YPA, 232, 107, 96.8 passer rating
Championships: 1994
Overview: Young had the misfortune of playing in the shadow of Joe Cool. It makes it easy to forget that, at the height of his powers, Young may have been the most unstoppable quarterback in the history of the game.

Young led the league in passer rating an unequaled six times, including four straight seasons from 1991 to 1994, and topped the 100 passer-rating mark in all four of those seasons. Every single one of those marks are unequaled.

To put those above-100-rating seasons into perspective, modern great and future first-ballot Hall of Famer Brett Favre NEVER topped the 100 passer-rating mark. The Cold, Hard Football Facts also put a lot of stock in the easier-to-understand (and equally effective) passing yards per attempt figure. And over those four years, Young averaged 8.71 yards every time he attempted to pass. To put THAT mark in perspective – and pigskin perspective is what we’re all about – the brilliant Peyton Manning has topped 8.71 YPA in a single season just once (2004).

The period of dominance was highlighted by the greatest Super Bowl performance in history: a 67-percent, 325 yard, 6-TD, 0 INT explosion in a 49-26 victory over overwhelmed San Diego in Super Bowl XXIX.

And let’s not forget: Young was the best ballcarrier in our list of Top 10 QBs. He rushed for 43 TDs – no other QB on our list comes close – including an impressive 17 in his four-year run of dominance.

It didn’t end there: Young also led the league in passer rating in 1996 and 1997, though he played in just 12 games in 1996. The knocks against Young are well-known: he struggled early in his career, he was injured often late (he played a full 16 games just three times in 15 seasons) and won just one Super Bowl. But two potential Super Bowl titles were stymied by a dynastic Dallas team (and Young did not play poorly in those games). But over the course of the 1990s, nobody approximated Young's brilliance.

7. ROGER STAUBACH
(Dallas, 1969-79)
Best season (1971): 126 for 211 (59.7%), 1,882 yards, 8.9 YPA, 15 TD, 4 INT, 104.8 passer rating
Career: 1,685 for 2,958 (57.0%), 22,700 yards, 7.7 YPA, 153 TD, 109 INT, 83.4 passer rating
Championships: 1971, 1977
Overview: Roger the Dodger did not become a fulltime NFL quarterback until the 1971 season – at age 29! One wonders what he might have done had he not spent five years in the service after his Heisman-winning 1963 season at Navy and two years sitting behind Craig Morton in Dallas.

Finally given a chance, he quickly proved to be a player for the ages. He took a Dallas club that “couldn’t win the big game” (five crushing playoff losses in five straight seasons, including three in NFL championship games or the Super Bowl) and turned it into a champion and “America’s Team” in his first full year at the helm.

In that 1971 season he played something of a caretaker role, attempting just 211 passes for 1,882 yards, but he tossed 15 TDs to just 4 INTs, averaged an astounding 8.9 YPA and posted a passer rating of 104.8, the second highest of the Dead Ball Era. It’s a truly remarkable number considering the season in which he did it. The league-wide passer rating in 1971 was just 62.2 – the second-lowest league-wide rating since 1956. Staubach shattered the standards of the era in his first full year playing NFL football – or football of any kind since 1963.

He also ended the 1971 season with an MVP performance in Super Bowl VI (a dominating 24-3 win over the Dolphins, who would not lose again until 1973) while placing himself high up on the pigskin pantheon of heroes who have defined America’s Team.

Staubach wasn’t quite done: he added passer-rating titles in 1973, 1978 and 1979, and another Super Bowl title in 1977. He’s one Jackie Smith dropped pass away from a third championship ring – in a game which might have earned Staubach and the Cowboys, not the Steelers, the title of team of the decade in the 1970s.

He also was a great scrambler and ballcarrier who rushed for 20 scores and 2,264 yards on 410 attempts. Most impressive: he played all but two years of his career in the depths of the Dead Ball Era, yet still racked up a career passer rating of 83.4 – No. 1 all time among pre-1980 quarterbacks.

Not bad for a guy who spent five years in the Navy during Vietnam.

6. JOHNNY UNITAS
(Baltimore Colts, 1956-72; San Diego, 1973)
Best season (1959): 193 for 367 (52.6%), 2,899 yards, 7.9 YPA, 32 TD, 14 INT, 92.0 passer rating
Career: 2,830 for 5,186 (54.6%), 40,239 yards, 7.8 YPA, 290 TD, 253 TD, 78.2 passer rating
Championships: 1958, 1959, 1970
Overview: Remember George Shaw? No?

Blame Johnny Unitas, a name that reeks of leathery, blood-and-spittle football lore. Shaw was the Wally Pipp to Johnny U’s Lou Gehrig; or, more appropriately for the gridiron-inclined, the Drew Bledsoe to Johnny’s U’s Tom Brady.

Shaw was Baltimore’s stud first-round draft pick in 1955 – the upstart organization’s quarterback of the future. Unitas was Pittsburgh’s unheralded 9th-round draft pick that same year, cut by the lowly Steelers in training camp and then acquired by Baltimore off the Pittsburgh semi-pro sandlot circuit the following season as some cheap insurance behind Shaw.

The starter Shaw went down with a broken leg early in the 1956 season. In stepped Unitas. The rest, as they say, is legendary.

In 1957, his first full NFL campaign, Unitas pieced together one of the era’s greatest passing seasons (24 TD, 8.5 YPA, 88.0 passer rating). He followed it with an even more effective season in 1958 – a season that ended with Unitas leading the first-ever overtime drive and walking off victorious in what may be the single-most important game in league history, Baltimore’s 23-17 win over the Giants at Yankee Stadium.

Johnny U. wasn’t quite done. His 1959 season was one for the ages – a truly remarkable 32 TD passes (to just 14 INTs) in a 12-game season, and a 92.0 passer rating. His 32 TD passes shattered Sid Luckman’s 1943 record by four.

The name Unitas is often the first that comes to mind when fans are asked to name the best quarterback of all-time. Sports Illustrated dubbed him the best ever in its cover-story tribute following his death in 2002.

So why don’t the Cold, Hard Football Facts rate him higher? Well, Unitas is certainly one of the best ever. And he had his greatest seasons early in his career, earning him a reputation as a clutch big-game QB throughout his career. But he never had a great postseason game after 1959 and, as you’ll see, was clearly the second best quarterback of the 1960s. He also had the benefit of spending his career surrounded by Hall of Famers (seven, in fact), including players destined for Canton at tackle, wide receiver, tight end and running back, and while playing for two Hall of Fame coaches (Weeb Ewbank and Don Shula).

But at the peak of his game – especially early in his career – few could hold a candle to the legend of Johnny U.

5. TOM BRADY
(New England, 2000-present)
Best season (2007): 398 for 578 (68.9%), 4,806 yards, 8.3 YPA, 50 TD, 8 INT, 117.2 passer rating
Career: 2,294 for 3,642 (63.0%), 26,370 yards, 7.2 YPA, 197 TD, 86 INT, 92.9 passer rating
Championships: 2001, 2003, 2004
Overview: Overrated? Probably not. Consider that some “pundits” are already poised to proclaim Brady the best ever (perhaps pending the outcome of Super Bowl XLII next week). Also consider this: no individual in pro football history has had a greater impact on one team’s fortunes than Brady has had on the fortunes of the Patriots.
Bill Belichick was 42-58 as a head coach before Brady. He’s 100-26 since.
The Patriots organization won just 98 football games in the 14 seasons from 1987 to 2000. They’ve won 100 in the seven years since.
The Patriots won seven postseason games in the 41 seasons from 1960 to 2000. They’ve won 14 postseason games in the seven years since.
The Patriots did not win a single championship in their first 41 seasons. They’re on the verge of their fourth in the past seven seasons.
The organization fortunes lit up like a air-raid klieg light the day Brady stepped on the field. Suffice it to say, Brady’s first six years in the NFL were incredibly eventful: three Super Bowl championships, two Super Bowl MVP awards, a record 21-game win streak, a TD passing title (28 in 2002, his first full season as a starter) and a passing yardage title (4,110 in 2005).

And then came 2007, in what could go down as the season by which all others will be measured: a record 50 TD passes (to just 8 picks), 4,860 yards, third most all time, 117.2 passer rating, second best all time, and, of course, the chance to become the first quarterback to lead a team to a 19-0 record. There’s been no season in history that combined raw, dizzying numbers with the ultimate stat: victories.

And, after eight years in the NFL, there’s been no career in history that combined raw, dizzying numbers with the ultimate stat. Brady’s career passer rating of 92.9 is the fourth-best in history, and he's the only cold-weather quarterback anywhere near the top. He’s rapidly climbing up the statistical charts in every area, and his 100-26 (.794) record as a starter is unmatched.

There’s also been one clutch fourth-quarter performance after another, almost single-handedly capturing victory from what appeared to be certain defeat time and again. Brady, like Manning, has the potential to move high up the list. And matching Joe Montana’s four titles and winning them in just eight years in the NFL (it took Montana 11 seasons) will make it hard to keep Brady out of the No. 1 spot. He's clearly on pace to one day make that claim.

4. OTTO GRAHAM
(Cleveland 1946-55)
Best NFL season (1953): 167 for 258 (64.7%), 2,722 yards, 10.6 YPA, 11 TD, 9 INT, 99.7 passer rating
Career (includes AAFC career): 1,464 for 2,626 (55.8%), 23,584 yards, 9.0 YPA, 174 TD, 135 INT, 86.6 passer rating
Championships: AAFC 1946-49; NFL 1950, 1954, 1955
Overview: Otto Graham was Tom Brady before Tom Brady, putting up gaudy numbers for his time while winning games and championships at an unprecedented rate. He led the Browns to a championship in all four years of the AAFC’s existence (1946-49). But he and the Browns proved they belonged in the big leagues by capturing the NFL title in their first year in the league.

In fact, they’d go on to set a record that still stands, appearing in six straight NFL championship games from 1950 to 1955, winning three of them. Bottom line: Graham played in a pro football championship game every single season of his 10-year career, winning seven of them in two different leagues.

He also set passing marks that stood for decades. His 86.6 passer rating, for example, is the top mark of the pre-Live Ball Era. And his career 9.0 YPA is No. 1 by a sizable margin.

So why, then, isn’t Graham higher on the list?

His four years in the AAFC make for some awkward comparisons. There’s every reason to believe the Browns would have been a dominant NFL team over those four years, but little reason to believe they would have won four straight championships. Graham’s numbers also declined pretty noticeably when he went to the NFL, from simply unbelievable to merely spectacular. His career 9.0 YPA average, for example, drops to 8.63 if we look only at his NFL numbers. Of course, that 8.63 YPA mark is the best in NFL history, too.

The full measure of Graham’s impact is this: the organization has never recovered from his departure at the end of the 1955 season. Sure, they remained competitive through the Jim Brown years (1957-65), winning a championship in 1964.

But that’s the only championship the organization won since Graham last took a snap for the Browns.

3. SAMMY BAUGH
(Washington, 1937-52)
Best season (1945): 128 for 182 (70.3%), 1,669 yards, 9.2 YPA, 11 TD, 4 INT, 109.9 passer rating
Career: 1,693 for 2,995 (56.5%), 21,886 yards, 7.3 YPA, 187 TD, 203 INT, 72.2 passer rating
Championships: 1937, 1942
Overview: Here’s a little rule of thumb: if you ever see a list of greatest quarterbacks (or greatest players, period) that doesn’t include the Pigskin Messiah, burn the author of said heresy at the stake. Seriously. Public execution.

We paid Baugh the ultimate compliment two years ago when we named him the quarterback of our peerless All-Time 11. We even listed his 1945 campaign as one of the greatest Old School seasons in NFL history a couple weeks ago.

You could make an argument that he’s the best athlete in NFL history (we’re not making the argument here, but you could). He certainly can stake a claim as the most accomplished two-way player in the history of the game. He was a devastating defensive back (31 career picks) and still stands as one of the most spectacular punters in the history of the game – as evidenced by his tremendous 45.1 career punting average, second only to Oakland’s current punter Shane Lechler.

But we’re talking quarterbacks here, and even at that position, few were as good as the man they called Slingin’ Sammy. He virtually invented the modern quarterbacking position, and put up performances that continue to stand the statistical test of time. (For the record, while researching the 1942 NFL championship game between the Redskins and Bears, Baugh was actually listed as a “left halfback” in the papers. But he’s really one of the first players we’d identify as a passer, as the nickname Slingin’ Sammy suggests).

His 70.3 completion percentage in 1945 has been surpassed just once (by Ken Anderson, in 1982), and his 109.9 passer rating that season stood as the second-best in league history until Joe Montana surpassed it in 1989. How impressive is that? Consider that the league-wide passer rating in 1945 was just 47.4 – Baugh more than doubled the league-wide mark!

We can only imagine what kind of numbers the Pigskin Messiah might have produced had he played only offense today, in an era that favored passers.

Baugh was also a two-time champion who led the greatest upset in NFL history. In the 1942 title game, his Redskins toppled the undefeated Bears, 14-6. Keep in mind that the 1942 Bears are the only club in history more dominant over the course of an entire season than the 2007 Patriots.

Are you listening, Eli?

2. JOE MONTANA
(San Francisco, 1979-92; Kansas City, 1993-94)
Best season (1989): 271 for 386 (70.2%), 3,521 yards, 9.12 YPA, 26 TD, 8 INT, 112.4 passer rating
Career: 3,409 for 5,391 (63.2%), 40,551 yards, 7.52 YPA, 273 TD, 139 INT, 92.3 passer rating
Championships: 1981, 1984, 1988, 1989
Overview: Sammy Baugh invented the position we know as quarterback today; performers like Johnny Unitas proved how deadly the forward pass could be. Montana gave the position the technical wizardry that defines it today, tearing apart defenses with a computer-chip brain and nerves of ice connected to a pinpoint passing arm that shredded defenses like Enron balance sheets.

Before Montana, passers attempted to stretch out defenses and beat them over the top. Montana, in perfect tandem with Paul Brown-bred offensive wizard Bill Walsh, attacked their under-protected flanks and soft underbelly. Coupled with a once-a-generation “It” factor that manifested itself in extreme poise under extreme pressure, and you have a quarterback many argue is the best of all time.

In the Super Bowl Era, it’s certainly hard to find a peer. Montana won four Super Bowl titles, an unmatched three Super Bowl MVP awards and stands as the undisputed king of Super Bowl quarterbacks, as evidenced by his staggering 127.8 passer rating in four apperances in the spotlight game in North American sports.

And, in a manner befitting a legend, he orchestrated one of the most spectacular drives in NFL history – an edge-of-the-seat 92-yard drive in Super Bowl XXIII that Cincinnati appeared helpless to stop (aided by a dropped INT) and that he capped with a 10-yard thread-through-a-needle TD pass to John Taylor with 34 seconds remaining.

In his spectacular 1989 season, he completed 70.2 percent of his passes for 3,521 yards and 26 TDs, to just 8 INTs. His 112.4 passer rating that season stood as the best of all time until surpassed by Peyton Manning in 2004. His career 92.3 passer rating remains No. 5 in NFL history, just 0.6 points behind his statistical alter-ego, Tom Brady.

1. BART STARR
(Green Bay, 1956-71)
Best season (1966): 156 for 251 (62.2%), 2,257 yards, 9.0 YPA, 14 TD, 3 INT, 105.0 passer rating
Career: 1,808 for 3,149 (57.4%), 24,718 yards, 7.8 YPA, 152 TD, 138 INT, 80.5 passer rating
Championships: 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967
Overview: That’s right. Bart Starr. The greatest quarterback in the history of the game.

Sit down and take notes:

History has done a grave disservice to the legacy of Starr, the 17th-round draft pick out of pre-Bear Bryant Alabama who turned into the most clutch and most cruelly efficient passing assassin of his or any other generation.

History remembers Starr’s legendary coach, and the bevy of Hall of Fame talent that surrounded him. It forgets that Starr was Lombardi’s second in command, a tremendous big-game performer, and that the Packers of the 1960s would have been just another team without the prolific Starr as their beloved on-field leader. Instead, they won five NFL championships, with Starr at the helm of every single one of those title teams, while he crafted an NFL-record 9-1 postseason mark. The rings say it all: Starr is the only quarterback in history who has one for every finger on his throwing hand.

And even if you listen to teammates today, they make it pretty clear that they would have fallen on a grenade for Starr. Leadership is an elemental piece of quarterbacking – probably more important than gaudy passing stats. And that love his teammates had for their field general is an incredible sign of his leadership.

But forget, for a moment, the team accomplishments and the “intangibles” of leadership.

If you want to talk passing and statistics, we’ll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody.

He led the NFL in passer rating five times. Johnny Unitas led the league in passer rating just twice. Ditto Joe Montana. Only Steve Young surpassed Starr’s mark (six).

And, lest we forget, Starr was the best postseason passer in NFL history, as evidenced by his record 104.8 playoff passer rating and 1.41 percent interception rate, also a postseason record (CHFF readers are well aware of the importance of not throwing picks in the playoffs). Starr played in an era when 80 was a decent passer rating. Yet he still performed more efficiently in the playoffs than folks such as Montana, Brady, Manning, Marino, Young and … well, anybody, ever.

There’s a cause and effect here, folks: NFL’s greatest dynasty, only winners of three-straight title games, and a record 9-1 postseason mark. And there, underlying it all, is Starr with his postseason passing records. The two are intricately intertwined.

History also remembers Starr’s Packers as a great running team, and that’s certainly true of their earlier years. But the truth is that they typically passed the ball more effectively than they ran it, especially during their run of three straight, when they were a below-average running team.

In their 1965 championship season, the Packers were 11th in the 14-team league with an average of 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. They were second in the league, with an average of 8.2 yards per passing attempt.

In their 1966 championship season, the Packers were 14th in the 15-team league, with an average of 3.5 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.9 yards per passing attempt.

In their 1967 championship season, the Packers were 4th in the 16-team league, with an average of 4.0 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.3 yards per passing attempt (Starr himself that season averaged 8.7 YPA).

Starr averaged a remarkable 7.85 YPA over the course of his entire career, the 8th-best mark in history, and better than that of a slate of quarterbacks who are generally regarded as the best passers in history, including Dan Marino (7.37), Joe Montana (7.52), Roger Staubach (7.67), Dan Fouts (7.68), Sonny Jurgensen (7.56), Fran Tarkenton (7.27), Y.A. Tittle (7.52), Terry Bradshaw (7.17) and Joe Namath (7.35).

Six times in the 1960s, Starr surpassed 8.2 YPA for a season. To put that into context, Peyton Manning has surpassed 8.2 YPA just twice in his brilliant 10-year career.

And, if you want drama, don’t forget that Starr scored the winning TD in the Ice Bowl, probably the most famous game in NFL history. Sure, Montana led his team 92 yards for the game-winning score in Super Bowl XXIII. But he did it on a 68-degree night in Miami. Turn down the thermostat by 86 degrees (it was 18-below in the fourth quarter of the Ice Bowl) and you begin to approximate the conditions under which the greatest quarterback in NFL history operated during his greatest moment in the sport’s greatest game.

And Starr was brilliant on that drive, in the decisive moments of the sport’s most famous game: he completed 5 of 5 passes in ball-busting cold, and then called a run play for the winning score. But instead of handing it off, he decided in his mind, without telling his teammates, that he was going to punch it in himself. It was only fitting: the game’s greatest signal-caller taking matters into his own hands in the sport’s signature moment.

To cap his career achievements, Starr earned MVP honors in the first two Super Bowls after shredding the best the AFL could throw his way for 452 yards on 47 passing attempts (9.6 YPA). Among those victims were the 1967 Raiders, perhaps the AFL's greatest single team. He posted a combined 106.0 passer rating in those two games. If you think it was no small feat to beat up on "upstart" AFL teams, just look at how NFL quarterbacks fared in Super Bowls III and IV. (Here's a hint: they were embarrassed.)

When it comes to a combination of leadership, victories, big-game performances and statistical supremacy nobody – NOBODY – put together a more total package than Bart Starr, the greatest quarterback in NFL history.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Anybody that lists Steve Young ahead of Brett Favre loses all credibility with me.

[The Shadow]

Here's a list for Shadow...

The Definitive List

The 10 Best Quarterbacks of All Time [and it's a Fact]
By Kerry J. Byrne
Cold, Hard Football Facts issuer of edicts

There’s a lot of talk lately about Tom Brady’s status among the all-time greats, especially as he prepares for Super Bowl XLII, his every move hounded by the paparazzi in a way no quarterback has experienced since Broadway Joe rocked the Apple 40 years ago.

Is the New England signal-caller the best ever at his position? All the “pundits” and talking heads are asking the same question.

You will not find a bigger group of Tom Brady rump-swabs than the Cold, Hard Football Facts crew. But best ever?

Sorry folks. Not yet.

He’s definitely worked his way onto the short list, there’s no denying that fact. And he has pieced together the greatest first eight years by a quarterback in NFL history.

But let’s remember, there have been a few other fair country quarterbacks in the nearly 70 years since it evolved into the position we know it today (primary passer and signal caller).

So where does Brady rank among the best ever? The ultimate Top 10 list appears below.

Our list will differ than most others. These lists normally begin with inherent human biases and are created by people who believe John Elway invented football at Stanford in 1982. Let’s put it this way: if Dan Fouts is on a Top 10 list of best quarterbacks ever and not, say, Otto Graham or Sammy Baugh, the author is a moron.

Fortunately, the Cold, Hard Football Facts have memories as long as the trail of humiliation we suffered at the hands of the cool kids in high school. So our list spans the full breadth of the position, measuring passers in several key areas: statistical production (in the context of their era), intangibles such as leadership, impact on a team's fortunes and, of course, championships. As we've long noted, passers who play well in the postseason win games. Passers who do not play well in the postseason lose games. So, championships, particularly multiple championships, are often a pretty solid indicator of a quarterback who consistently played well in big games.

There will be bitching and moaning about who made the cut and who didn’t. But that's part of the fun of these lists, isn't it? Plus, just ask yourself – who would you pull of this list to make room for your favorite quarterback, especially considering that, if he's not on this list, he doesn't belong on this list. (Apologies to the greats who came closest to making our list: Dan Marino, Sid Luckman, Norm Van Brocklin, Terry Bradshaw, Sonny Jurgensen, Y.A. Tittle and John Elway.)

Here, then, is the list of the 10 best quarterbacks in NFL history. Keep in mind that all other lists are wrong. Only this list is correct.

10. BRETT FAVRE
(Atlanta, 1991; Green Bay, 1992-present)
Best season (1996): 325 for 543 (59.9%), 3,899 yards, 7.2 YPA, 39 TD, 13 INT, 95.8 passer rating
Career: 5,377 for 8,758 (61.4%), 61,657 yards, 7.0 YPA, 442 TD, 288 INT, 85.7 passer rating
Championships: 1996
Overview: All you need to know about Favre is this: he holds every single volume passing number in NFL history: completions, attempts, yards, TDs and even INTs.

And for a three-year period from 1995 to 1997, he played the position as well (and as excitingly) as any passer in history, tossing 112 TD passes to 42 INT.

Despite it all, he might not have even made the list if we published this back in August. He had been a mediocre (in 2000 and 2006) to even a bad quarterback (2005) over many of the past several seasons. But he responded with perhaps the greatest statistical season of his career here in 2007 – no small feat for a 38-year-old warrior who guided his young team into the NFC championship game for the first time in 10 years. Of course, shades of the “Old Yeller” Favre haunted Green Bay in that game, as he tossed a critical pick in OT that handed the Giants an easy opportunity to score the game-winning points. There have been a handful of disastrous postseason “gunslinger’ moments over the past decade – and they’re the only thing keeping Favre, the most productive passer in history, from earning a spot much higher on the list.

9. PEYTON MANNING
(Indianapolis, 1998-present)
Best season (2004): 336 for 497 (67.6%), 4,557 yards, 9.2 YPA, 49 TD, 10 INT, 121.1 passer rating
Career: 3,468 for 5,405 (64.2%), 41,626, 7.7 YPA, 306 TD, 153 INT, 94.7 passer rating
Championships: 2006
Overview: What else can you say? Manning has basically done everything faster than every quarterback in the history of football – even faster than the original QB stat monster, Dan Marino.

Here’s how their careers stack up after 10 NFL seasons:

Manning: 3,468 for 5,405 (64.2%), 41,626, 7.7 YPA, 306 TD, 153 INT, 94.7 passer rating
Marino: 3,128 for 5,284, (59.2%), 39,502, 7.5 YPA, 290 TD, 165 INT, 87.8 passer rating

Manning bests Marino in every single category at this point in their careers and, most importantly, in the efficiency categories (completion percentage, YPA, passer rating). All of which, of course, puts Manning on pace to shatter every single passing record in the history of the game. And, don’t forget, Marino played his best ball early in his career. His best season was his second. Manning continues to pick up steam. As of today, Manning has the second best career passer rating in NFL history (94.7), with record-holder Steve Young (96.8) well in his sites.

The knock on Manning has always been that he doesn’t play well in the postseason. That argument became harder to make after he picked up a Super Bowl title – and Super Bowl MVP award – last season. But save for an utterly brilliant second half against his former nemesis New England, he did struggle even during his Super Bowl-winning postseason run. It’s the only thing keeping him right now at No. 9. But the sky remains the limit for the most productive passer we’ve ever seen.

He’s also one of the great NFL ironmen: Manning has NEVER missed a game in a pro career that began a decade ago and now numbers 160 consecutive starts in 160 opportunities (174 including postseason).

A couple more brilliant seasons – and more importantly, another ring or two – and Manning could find himself at the top of the list.

8. STEVE YOUNG (Tampa Bay, 1985-86; San Francisco, 1987-99)
Best season (1994): 324 for 461, 70.3%, 3,969 yards, 8.6 YPA, 35 TD, 10 INT, 112.8 passer rating
Career: 2,667 for 4,149, 64.3, 33,124, 8.0 YPA, 232, 107, 96.8 passer rating
Championships: 1994
Overview: Young had the misfortune of playing in the shadow of Joe Cool. It makes it easy to forget that, at the height of his powers, Young may have been the most unstoppable quarterback in the history of the game.

Young led the league in passer rating an unequaled six times, including four straight seasons from 1991 to 1994, and topped the 100 passer-rating mark in all four of those seasons. Every single one of those marks are unequaled.

To put those above-100-rating seasons into perspective, modern great and future first-ballot Hall of Famer Brett Favre NEVER topped the 100 passer-rating mark. The Cold, Hard Football Facts also put a lot of stock in the easier-to-understand (and equally effective) passing yards per attempt figure. And over those four years, Young averaged 8.71 yards every time he attempted to pass. To put THAT mark in perspective – and pigskin perspective is what we’re all about – the brilliant Peyton Manning has topped 8.71 YPA in a single season just once (2004).

The period of dominance was highlighted by the greatest Super Bowl performance in history: a 67-percent, 325 yard, 6-TD, 0 INT explosion in a 49-26 victory over overwhelmed San Diego in Super Bowl XXIX.

And let’s not forget: Young was the best ballcarrier in our list of Top 10 QBs. He rushed for 43 TDs – no other QB on our list comes close – including an impressive 17 in his four-year run of dominance.

It didn’t end there: Young also led the league in passer rating in 1996 and 1997, though he played in just 12 games in 1996. The knocks against Young are well-known: he struggled early in his career, he was injured often late (he played a full 16 games just three times in 15 seasons) and won just one Super Bowl. But two potential Super Bowl titles were stymied by a dynastic Dallas team (and Young did not play poorly in those games). But over the course of the 1990s, nobody approximated Young's brilliance.

7. ROGER STAUBACH
(Dallas, 1969-79)
Best season (1971): 126 for 211 (59.7%), 1,882 yards, 8.9 YPA, 15 TD, 4 INT, 104.8 passer rating
Career: 1,685 for 2,958 (57.0%), 22,700 yards, 7.7 YPA, 153 TD, 109 INT, 83.4 passer rating
Championships: 1971, 1977
Overview: Roger the Dodger did not become a fulltime NFL quarterback until the 1971 season – at age 29! One wonders what he might have done had he not spent five years in the service after his Heisman-winning 1963 season at Navy and two years sitting behind Craig Morton in Dallas.

Finally given a chance, he quickly proved to be a player for the ages. He took a Dallas club that “couldn’t win the big game” (five crushing playoff losses in five straight seasons, including three in NFL championship games or the Super Bowl) and turned it into a champion and “America’s Team” in his first full year at the helm.

In that 1971 season he played something of a caretaker role, attempting just 211 passes for 1,882 yards, but he tossed 15 TDs to just 4 INTs, averaged an astounding 8.9 YPA and posted a passer rating of 104.8, the second highest of the Dead Ball Era. It’s a truly remarkable number considering the season in which he did it. The league-wide passer rating in 1971 was just 62.2 – the second-lowest league-wide rating since 1956. Staubach shattered the standards of the era in his first full year playing NFL football – or football of any kind since 1963.

He also ended the 1971 season with an MVP performance in Super Bowl VI (a dominating 24-3 win over the Dolphins, who would not lose again until 1973) while placing himself high up on the pigskin pantheon of heroes who have defined America’s Team.

Staubach wasn’t quite done: he added passer-rating titles in 1973, 1978 and 1979, and another Super Bowl title in 1977. He’s one Jackie Smith dropped pass away from a third championship ring – in a game which might have earned Staubach and the Cowboys, not the Steelers, the title of team of the decade in the 1970s.

He also was a great scrambler and ballcarrier who rushed for 20 scores and 2,264 yards on 410 attempts. Most impressive: he played all but two years of his career in the depths of the Dead Ball Era, yet still racked up a career passer rating of 83.4 – No. 1 all time among pre-1980 quarterbacks.

Not bad for a guy who spent five years in the Navy during Vietnam.

6. JOHNNY UNITAS
(Baltimore Colts, 1956-72; San Diego, 1973)
Best season (1959): 193 for 367 (52.6%), 2,899 yards, 7.9 YPA, 32 TD, 14 INT, 92.0 passer rating
Career: 2,830 for 5,186 (54.6%), 40,239 yards, 7.8 YPA, 290 TD, 253 TD, 78.2 passer rating
Championships: 1958, 1959, 1970
Overview: Remember George Shaw? No?

Blame Johnny Unitas, a name that reeks of leathery, blood-and-spittle football lore. Shaw was the Wally Pipp to Johnny U’s Lou Gehrig; or, more appropriately for the gridiron-inclined, the Drew Bledsoe to Johnny’s U’s Tom Brady.

Shaw was Baltimore’s stud first-round draft pick in 1955 – the upstart organization’s quarterback of the future. Unitas was Pittsburgh’s unheralded 9th-round draft pick that same year, cut by the lowly Steelers in training camp and then acquired by Baltimore off the Pittsburgh semi-pro sandlot circuit the following season as some cheap insurance behind Shaw.

The starter Shaw went down with a broken leg early in the 1956 season. In stepped Unitas. The rest, as they say, is legendary.

In 1957, his first full NFL campaign, Unitas pieced together one of the era’s greatest passing seasons (24 TD, 8.5 YPA, 88.0 passer rating). He followed it with an even more effective season in 1958 – a season that ended with Unitas leading the first-ever overtime drive and walking off victorious in what may be the single-most important game in league history, Baltimore’s 23-17 win over the Giants at Yankee Stadium.

Johnny U. wasn’t quite done. His 1959 season was one for the ages – a truly remarkable 32 TD passes (to just 14 INTs) in a 12-game season, and a 92.0 passer rating. His 32 TD passes shattered Sid Luckman’s 1943 record by four.

The name Unitas is often the first that comes to mind when fans are asked to name the best quarterback of all-time. Sports Illustrated dubbed him the best ever in its cover-story tribute following his death in 2002.

So why don’t the Cold, Hard Football Facts rate him higher? Well, Unitas is certainly one of the best ever. And he had his greatest seasons early in his career, earning him a reputation as a clutch big-game QB throughout his career. But he never had a great postseason game after 1959 and, as you’ll see, was clearly the second best quarterback of the 1960s. He also had the benefit of spending his career surrounded by Hall of Famers (seven, in fact), including players destined for Canton at tackle, wide receiver, tight end and running back, and while playing for two Hall of Fame coaches (Weeb Ewbank and Don Shula).

But at the peak of his game – especially early in his career – few could hold a candle to the legend of Johnny U.

5. TOM BRADY
(New England, 2000-present)
Best season (2007): 398 for 578 (68.9%), 4,806 yards, 8.3 YPA, 50 TD, 8 INT, 117.2 passer rating
Career: 2,294 for 3,642 (63.0%), 26,370 yards, 7.2 YPA, 197 TD, 86 INT, 92.9 passer rating
Championships: 2001, 2003, 2004
Overview: Overrated? Probably not. Consider that some “pundits” are already poised to proclaim Brady the best ever (perhaps pending the outcome of Super Bowl XLII next week). Also consider this: no individual in pro football history has had a greater impact on one team’s fortunes than Brady has had on the fortunes of the Patriots.
Bill Belichick was 42-58 as a head coach before Brady. He’s 100-26 since.
The Patriots organization won just 98 football games in the 14 seasons from 1987 to 2000. They’ve won 100 in the seven years since.
The Patriots won seven postseason games in the 41 seasons from 1960 to 2000. They’ve won 14 postseason games in the seven years since.
The Patriots did not win a single championship in their first 41 seasons. They’re on the verge of their fourth in the past seven seasons.
The organization fortunes lit up like a air-raid klieg light the day Brady stepped on the field. Suffice it to say, Brady’s first six years in the NFL were incredibly eventful: three Super Bowl championships, two Super Bowl MVP awards, a record 21-game win streak, a TD passing title (28 in 2002, his first full season as a starter) and a passing yardage title (4,110 in 2005).

And then came 2007, in what could go down as the season by which all others will be measured: a record 50 TD passes (to just 8 picks), 4,860 yards, third most all time, 117.2 passer rating, second best all time, and, of course, the chance to become the first quarterback to lead a team to a 19-0 record. There’s been no season in history that combined raw, dizzying numbers with the ultimate stat: victories.

And, after eight years in the NFL, there’s been no career in history that combined raw, dizzying numbers with the ultimate stat. Brady’s career passer rating of 92.9 is the fourth-best in history, and he's the only cold-weather quarterback anywhere near the top. He’s rapidly climbing up the statistical charts in every area, and his 100-26 (.794) record as a starter is unmatched.

There’s also been one clutch fourth-quarter performance after another, almost single-handedly capturing victory from what appeared to be certain defeat time and again. Brady, like Manning, has the potential to move high up the list. And matching Joe Montana’s four titles and winning them in just eight years in the NFL (it took Montana 11 seasons) will make it hard to keep Brady out of the No. 1 spot. He's clearly on pace to one day make that claim.

4. OTTO GRAHAM
(Cleveland 1946-55)
Best NFL season (1953): 167 for 258 (64.7%), 2,722 yards, 10.6 YPA, 11 TD, 9 INT, 99.7 passer rating
Career (includes AAFC career): 1,464 for 2,626 (55.8%), 23,584 yards, 9.0 YPA, 174 TD, 135 INT, 86.6 passer rating
Championships: AAFC 1946-49; NFL 1950, 1954, 1955
Overview: Otto Graham was Tom Brady before Tom Brady, putting up gaudy numbers for his time while winning games and championships at an unprecedented rate. He led the Browns to a championship in all four years of the AAFC’s existence (1946-49). But he and the Browns proved they belonged in the big leagues by capturing the NFL title in their first year in the league.

In fact, they’d go on to set a record that still stands, appearing in six straight NFL championship games from 1950 to 1955, winning three of them. Bottom line: Graham played in a pro football championship game every single season of his 10-year career, winning seven of them in two different leagues.

He also set passing marks that stood for decades. His 86.6 passer rating, for example, is the top mark of the pre-Live Ball Era. And his career 9.0 YPA is No. 1 by a sizable margin.

So why, then, isn’t Graham higher on the list?

His four years in the AAFC make for some awkward comparisons. There’s every reason to believe the Browns would have been a dominant NFL team over those four years, but little reason to believe they would have won four straight championships. Graham’s numbers also declined pretty noticeably when he went to the NFL, from simply unbelievable to merely spectacular. His career 9.0 YPA average, for example, drops to 8.63 if we look only at his NFL numbers. Of course, that 8.63 YPA mark is the best in NFL history, too.

The full measure of Graham’s impact is this: the organization has never recovered from his departure at the end of the 1955 season. Sure, they remained competitive through the Jim Brown years (1957-65), winning a championship in 1964.

But that’s the only championship the organization won since Graham last took a snap for the Browns.

3. SAMMY BAUGH
(Washington, 1937-52)
Best season (1945): 128 for 182 (70.3%), 1,669 yards, 9.2 YPA, 11 TD, 4 INT, 109.9 passer rating
Career: 1,693 for 2,995 (56.5%), 21,886 yards, 7.3 YPA, 187 TD, 203 INT, 72.2 passer rating
Championships: 1937, 1942
Overview: Here’s a little rule of thumb: if you ever see a list of greatest quarterbacks (or greatest players, period) that doesn’t include the Pigskin Messiah, burn the author of said heresy at the stake. Seriously. Public execution.

We paid Baugh the ultimate compliment two years ago when we named him the quarterback of our peerless All-Time 11. We even listed his 1945 campaign as one of the greatest Old School seasons in NFL history a couple weeks ago.

You could make an argument that he’s the best athlete in NFL history (we’re not making the argument here, but you could). He certainly can stake a claim as the most accomplished two-way player in the history of the game. He was a devastating defensive back (31 career picks) and still stands as one of the most spectacular punters in the history of the game – as evidenced by his tremendous 45.1 career punting average, second only to Oakland’s current punter Shane Lechler.

But we’re talking quarterbacks here, and even at that position, few were as good as the man they called Slingin’ Sammy. He virtually invented the modern quarterbacking position, and put up performances that continue to stand the statistical test of time. (For the record, while researching the 1942 NFL championship game between the Redskins and Bears, Baugh was actually listed as a “left halfback” in the papers. But he’s really one of the first players we’d identify as a passer, as the nickname Slingin’ Sammy suggests).

His 70.3 completion percentage in 1945 has been surpassed just once (by Ken Anderson, in 1982), and his 109.9 passer rating that season stood as the second-best in league history until Joe Montana surpassed it in 1989. How impressive is that? Consider that the league-wide passer rating in 1945 was just 47.4 – Baugh more than doubled the league-wide mark!

We can only imagine what kind of numbers the Pigskin Messiah might have produced had he played only offense today, in an era that favored passers.

Baugh was also a two-time champion who led the greatest upset in NFL history. In the 1942 title game, his Redskins toppled the undefeated Bears, 14-6. Keep in mind that the 1942 Bears are the only club in history more dominant over the course of an entire season than the 2007 Patriots.

Are you listening, Eli?

2. JOE MONTANA
(San Francisco, 1979-92; Kansas City, 1993-94)
Best season (1989): 271 for 386 (70.2%), 3,521 yards, 9.12 YPA, 26 TD, 8 INT, 112.4 passer rating
Career: 3,409 for 5,391 (63.2%), 40,551 yards, 7.52 YPA, 273 TD, 139 INT, 92.3 passer rating
Championships: 1981, 1984, 1988, 1989
Overview: Sammy Baugh invented the position we know as quarterback today; performers like Johnny Unitas proved how deadly the forward pass could be. Montana gave the position the technical wizardry that defines it today, tearing apart defenses with a computer-chip brain and nerves of ice connected to a pinpoint passing arm that shredded defenses like Enron balance sheets.

Before Montana, passers attempted to stretch out defenses and beat them over the top. Montana, in perfect tandem with Paul Brown-bred offensive wizard Bill Walsh, attacked their under-protected flanks and soft underbelly. Coupled with a once-a-generation “It” factor that manifested itself in extreme poise under extreme pressure, and you have a quarterback many argue is the best of all time.

In the Super Bowl Era, it’s certainly hard to find a peer. Montana won four Super Bowl titles, an unmatched three Super Bowl MVP awards and stands as the undisputed king of Super Bowl quarterbacks, as evidenced by his staggering 127.8 passer rating in four apperances in the spotlight game in North American sports.

And, in a manner befitting a legend, he orchestrated one of the most spectacular drives in NFL history – an edge-of-the-seat 92-yard drive in Super Bowl XXIII that Cincinnati appeared helpless to stop (aided by a dropped INT) and that he capped with a 10-yard thread-through-a-needle TD pass to John Taylor with 34 seconds remaining.

In his spectacular 1989 season, he completed 70.2 percent of his passes for 3,521 yards and 26 TDs, to just 8 INTs. His 112.4 passer rating that season stood as the best of all time until surpassed by Peyton Manning in 2004. His career 92.3 passer rating remains No. 5 in NFL history, just 0.6 points behind his statistical alter-ego, Tom Brady.

1. BART STARR
(Green Bay, 1956-71)
Best season (1966): 156 for 251 (62.2%), 2,257 yards, 9.0 YPA, 14 TD, 3 INT, 105.0 passer rating
Career: 1,808 for 3,149 (57.4%), 24,718 yards, 7.8 YPA, 152 TD, 138 INT, 80.5 passer rating
Championships: 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967
Overview: That’s right. Bart Starr. The greatest quarterback in the history of the game.

Sit down and take notes:

History has done a grave disservice to the legacy of Starr, the 17th-round draft pick out of pre-Bear Bryant Alabama who turned into the most clutch and most cruelly efficient passing assassin of his or any other generation.

History remembers Starr’s legendary coach, and the bevy of Hall of Fame talent that surrounded him. It forgets that Starr was Lombardi’s second in command, a tremendous big-game performer, and that the Packers of the 1960s would have been just another team without the prolific Starr as their beloved on-field leader. Instead, they won five NFL championships, with Starr at the helm of every single one of those title teams, while he crafted an NFL-record 9-1 postseason mark. The rings say it all: Starr is the only quarterback in history who has one for every finger on his throwing hand.

And even if you listen to teammates today, they make it pretty clear that they would have fallen on a grenade for Starr. Leadership is an elemental piece of quarterbacking – probably more important than gaudy passing stats. And that love his teammates had for their field general is an incredible sign of his leadership.

But forget, for a moment, the team accomplishments and the “intangibles” of leadership.

If you want to talk passing and statistics, we’ll put Starr up against anybody. Anybody.

He led the NFL in passer rating five times. Johnny Unitas led the league in passer rating just twice. Ditto Joe Montana. Only Steve Young surpassed Starr’s mark (six).

And, lest we forget, Starr was the best postseason passer in NFL history, as evidenced by his record 104.8 playoff passer rating and 1.41 percent interception rate, also a postseason record (CHFF readers are well aware of the importance of not throwing picks in the playoffs). Starr played in an era when 80 was a decent passer rating. Yet he still performed more efficiently in the playoffs than folks such as Montana, Brady, Manning, Marino, Young and … well, anybody, ever.

There’s a cause and effect here, folks: NFL’s greatest dynasty, only winners of three-straight title games, and a record 9-1 postseason mark. And there, underlying it all, is Starr with his postseason passing records. The two are intricately intertwined.

History also remembers Starr’s Packers as a great running team, and that’s certainly true of their earlier years. But the truth is that they typically passed the ball more effectively than they ran it, especially during their run of three straight, when they were a below-average running team.

In their 1965 championship season, the Packers were 11th in the 14-team league with an average of 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. They were second in the league, with an average of 8.2 yards per passing attempt.

In their 1966 championship season, the Packers were 14th in the 15-team league, with an average of 3.5 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.9 yards per passing attempt.

In their 1967 championship season, the Packers were 4th in the 16-team league, with an average of 4.0 yards per rushing attempt. They were first in the league, with an average of 8.3 yards per passing attempt (Starr himself that season averaged 8.7 YPA).

Starr averaged a remarkable 7.85 YPA over the course of his entire career, the 8th-best mark in history, and better than that of a slate of quarterbacks who are generally regarded as the best passers in history, including Dan Marino (7.37), Joe Montana (7.52), Roger Staubach (7.67), Dan Fouts (7.68), Sonny Jurgensen (7.56), Fran Tarkenton (7.27), Y.A. Tittle (7.52), Terry Bradshaw (7.17) and Joe Namath (7.35).

Six times in the 1960s, Starr surpassed 8.2 YPA for a season. To put that into context, Peyton Manning has surpassed 8.2 YPA just twice in his brilliant 10-year career.

And, if you want drama, don’t forget that Starr scored the winning TD in the Ice Bowl, probably the most famous game in NFL history. Sure, Montana led his team 92 yards for the game-winning score in Super Bowl XXIII. But he did it on a 68-degree night in Miami. Turn down the thermostat by 86 degrees (it was 18-below in the fourth quarter of the Ice Bowl) and you begin to approximate the conditions under which the greatest quarterback in NFL history operated during his greatest moment in the sport’s greatest game.

And Starr was brilliant on that drive, in the decisive moments of the sport’s most famous game: he completed 5 of 5 passes in ball-busting cold, and then called a run play for the winning score. But instead of handing it off, he decided in his mind, without telling his teammates, that he was going to punch it in himself. It was only fitting: the game’s greatest signal-caller taking matters into his own hands in the sport’s signature moment.

To cap his career achievements, Starr earned MVP honors in the first two Super Bowls after shredding the best the AFL could throw his way for 452 yards on 47 passing attempts (9.6 YPA). Among those victims were the 1967 Raiders, perhaps the AFL's greatest single team. He posted a combined 106.0 passer rating in those two games. If you think it was no small feat to beat up on "upstart" AFL teams, just look at how NFL quarterbacks fared in Super Bowls III and IV. (Here's a hint: they were embarrassed.)

When it comes to a combination of leadership, victories, big-game performances and statistical supremacy nobody – NOBODY – put together a more total package than Bart Starr, the greatest quarterback in NFL history.

Thanks. Vince. It's not so much that I insist that Starr was THE GREATEST! (for in reality, identifying BEST at anything involves a great deal of subjectivity) - it's rather that I find the tendency amongst so many younger Packer fans to dismiss his excellence - or put it in the backseat behind Favre's - misguided.
Simply put : Bart Starr actually produced many championships for Green Bay; he found a way, sometimes with great talent, sometimes with good talent - to get the job done.
That is a HUGE factor when discussing 'greatness'.

[Charles Woodson]

The Eagles playoff loss and this last one sting the most(besides the SB loss) because we had teams that were good enough to compete and win the Super Bowl and Favre had every opportunity to lead his team to victory. Interceptions cost us everytime.

Im gana pretend like you know what the fuck your talking about with the '03 Packers. Hmm lets take a look at the game shall we? Favre was over 50% completion percentage, 180yds, 2 TD and 1 Int.
But anytime when Robert Ferguson is your leading reciver theres a problem

Now yes we should have won the game... But should the
defense given up 4th and 26?

Mcnabb ran all over us, 11 rushes for 107 yds. Damn was that Bretts fault too?
how about late in the 2nd quarter when we went for it on the 1 and didnt get it? kick the field goal and we woulda won...
Mcnabb killed us, both times they scored the TD's they drove all through our Defense
Another time Brett had a 40 yd pass that got us to the 7 and we came away with 3 pts.

Yes, the Int hurt but there were bigger things that lead to the losing of the game.[/b]

Bigger things that led to losing that game? My memory, aided by the drive chart aka what the fuck I'm talking about, tells me that we were tied in OT with the ball on our own 42 yard line. That's prime field position in OT. We dodged our bullets and yet here we sit 0 to 0, sudden death, on our own 42. A piss away from field goal distance. The great ones elevate their play and find ways to will their team to win. How can that INT not be the biggest factor in us losing when it resulted in the Eagles scoring?

When people talk about Favre with the great ones like Jordan and Woods, the major difference between them and Favre is, Jordan and Woods hit the winning shots. Repeatedly. That's all I'm saying to those that talk about the greatest QB's. That's part of my criteria.

If you want, go ahead and keep blaming others for Favre's lack of playoff success. The fact is, the team made it to the playoffs so they couldn't have been that bad. The Broncos team that beat us in the SB were heavy underdogs for a reason. They just wanted it more and nothing personifies that any more than the spin Elway took. There was a QB who was part of willing that team on to victory. If you watch Favre in the Giants loss, it looked like he wanted to be anywhere but on that field at times.

4th and 1 at PHI Ahman Green (GNB) rushed for no gain; turnover on downs. 1:56 2nd
Im sorry but i think that the field goal that would have won the game would be JUST as big...


And your still not understanding that the 4th and 26 that they converted on the defense was THE reason we lost the game... with less than 2 minutes left, if we had stopped them we would have won also...

[The Shadow]

The Eagles playoff loss and this last one sting the most(besides the SB loss) because we had teams that were good enough to compete and win the Super Bowl and Favre had every opportunity to lead his team to victory. Interceptions cost us everytime.

Im gana pretend like you know what the fuck your talking about with the '03 Packers. Hmm lets take a look at the game shall we? Favre was over 50% completion percentage, 180yds, 2 TD and 1 Int.
But anytime when Robert Ferguson is your leading reciver theres a problem

Now yes we should have won the game... But should the
defense given up 4th and 26?

Mcnabb ran all over us, 11 rushes for 107 yds. Damn was that Bretts fault too?
how about late in the 2nd quarter when we went for it on the 1 and didnt get it? kick the field goal and we woulda won...
Mcnabb killed us, both times they scored the TD's they drove all through our Defense
Another time Brett had a 40 yd pass that got us to the 7 and we came away with 3 pts.

Yes, the Int hurt but there were bigger things that lead to the losing of the game.[/b]

Bigger things that led to losing that game? My memory, aided by the drive chart aka what the fuck I'm talking about, tells me that we were tied in OT with the ball on our own 42 yard line. That's prime field position in OT. We dodged our bullets and yet here we sit 0 to 0, sudden death, on our own 42. A piss away from field goal distance. The great ones elevate their play and find ways to will their team to win. How can that INT not be the biggest factor in us losing when it resulted in the Eagles scoring?

When people talk about Favre with the great ones like Jordan and Woods, the major difference between them and Favre is, Jordan and Woods hit the winning shots. Repeatedly. That's all I'm saying to those that talk about the greatest QB's. That's part of my criteria.

If you want, go ahead and keep blaming others for Favre's lack of playoff success. The fact is, the team made it to the playoffs so they couldn't have been that bad. The Broncos team that beat us in the SB were heavy underdogs for a reason. They just wanted it more and nothing personifies that any more than the spin Elway took. There was a QB who was part of willing that team on to victory. If you watch Favre in the Giants loss, it looked like he wanted to be anywhere but on that field at times.

4th and 1 at PHI Ahman Green (GNB) rushed for no gain; turnover on downs. 1:56 2nd
Im sorry but i think that the field goal that would have won the game would be JUST as big...


And your still not understanding that the 4th and 26 that they converted on the defense was THE reason we lost the game... with less than 2 minutes left, if we had stopped them we would have won also...

Football games feature plenty of setbacks, momentum swings, and 'IF'S'.
At the end of the day : can you get your team to the top?

[Patler]

But, old farts continue to jack off to Bart Starr...and neglect to ever mention the incredible defense that was far better than any defense Brett Favre ever played with...including the Super Bowl champion team.

Of course I could say the same about the young whipper snappers paying penile homage to Favre. It's as if a positive statement about Starr is a negative inference toward Favre.

I also think you are doing a disservice to the Packer's D in 1996. They were the #1 in the NFL in overall defense, #1 defense in least points allowed, #1 passing defense, #4 rushing defense. How much more do you want????

I am amazed at how vehemently some object to anything positive said about Starr. I have never suggested he was better than Favre, because physically he was no match. All I suggested was that you really lacked an appreciation for the role he played on the team in the '60s.

[Scott Campbell]

Of course I could say the same about the young whipper snappers paying penile homage to Favre.

ROFL

[Iron Mike]

Anybody that lists Steve Young ahead of Brett Favre loses all credibility with me.

Agreed. And we've seen how awesome Laser Rocket Arm is when he doesn't have Marvin Harrison to throw to.

[The Leaper]

I also think you are doing a disservice to the Packer's D in 1996. They were the #1 in the NFL in overall defense, #1 defense in least points allowed, #1 passing defense, #4 rushing defense. How much more do you want????

Yes, that defense was very good...but it was aging fast. White was already past his prime by that time...and many other key players on defense were near or at the point of decline as well.

I am amazed at how vehemently some object to anything positive said about Starr. I have never suggested he was better than Favre, because physically he was no match. All I suggested was that you really lacked an appreciation for the role he played on the team in the '60s.

Patler, you may not have suggested that Starr was a better QB. Others have. I came out from the start suggesting Starr was the MOST SUCCESSFUL QB in Packer history, just not the GREATEST. Like Bill Russell was the most successful NBA center...but Wilt Chamberlain was the greatest. How the hell does that take away from Starr? It simply points out the obvious.

I also believe many have a lack of appreciation for the talent around Starr. Starr, like most QBs, gets way too much of the accolades. This is ESPECIALLY true when QBs are surrounded by a ridiculous amount of talent. I wasn't around in the 1960s, but I've done plenty of reading and watching films from that era. To hear old farts blabber on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Starr...hardly discussing guys like Davis, Wood or Adderly at all...it pisses me off when I read and see how talented those guys truly were.

If ONLY Favre had that kind of prime defensive talent around him during the bulk of his prime like Starr did.

The point is that Favre was RARELY surrounded by ridiculous amounts of talent, while Starr was OFTEN surrounded by it. Anyone who thinks that the Packers in the 1960s could not have won 5 titles with Favre instead of Starr is kidding themselves...just as anyone who feels that Starr could've accomplished what Favre did in the 1990s on relatively mediocre offenses is also kidding themselves. You can continue to fawn over Dorsey Levens or Edgar Bennett or an aged Keith Jackson...those guys are all average players in the NFL in 1996 on a team without Favre. IMO, Starr still had more talent on his offense in 1966 than Favre had in 1996.

Starr was a great leader...and a solid QB. With the talent around him, that's all he needed to be. Kudos to him. That doesn't make him one of the all-time greats...no more than Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw should be listed among the all-time greats simply because they were surrounded with a wealth of talent that any other great QB could've also led to multiple titles.

Starr made the Packers winners under Lombardi...and sucked pretty much the rest of the time he was in Green Bay.

Favre made the Packers winners under Holmgren, Sherman and McCarthy...he even almost made Rhodes a winner! The Packers were ALWAYS playoff contenders with Favre under center...the same cannot be said for Starr. That is the bottom line, even if some choose to ignore it.

[Patler]

Leaper;

What I think you are not appreciating is how bad the Packer roster became shortly after 1967, due to age, retirements and injuries. In the O-line, Skoronski and Kramer were gone in 1969 and Bowman was constantly hurt. Taylor and Hornung were gone already in 1967. Anderson and Grabowski at RB were hand-picked to be the next Taylor and Hornung, but didn't come anywhere close. Grabowski was constantly out of the lineup with injuries. Gregg was gone in 1970 as were Willie Davis, Ron Kostelnick, Henry Jordan, and Herb Adderley on defense. Nitschke was a shell of himself by 1968-69. He had so much trouble running it was painful just to watch him, but the coaching staff didn't have the will to sit him down. The team really started to fall apart in 1968, and the cast that Starr played with until he retired was more like what Favre had in 2004-2006.

Starr himself played too long. He was injured a lot the last couple years and finished his career something like Marino did with his.

Many fans tend to forget that guys like Starr, Nitschke, Davis, Jordan, Gregg, Hornung and others were in the NFL, some with other teams, two and three years before Lombardi even came to Green Bay. By the time Lombardi retired, the core of the great Packer teams was well-past its prime, and most of the players were gone within just a few years after the second championship in 1966. The Championship in 1967 was really unexpected. For as great as Lombardi was, he really assembled only one squad and a couple replacements very early like Bowman, Gillingham and Jeter. When that wave of players retired, the cupboard was petty bare. He didn't have a lot of capable replacements on hand, other than at LB were he always seemed to find someone and left the team fairly well stocked. Not so elsewhere.

Again, that was one of the things that made the Packers three Championships in 1965-67 so special. It was achieved by a roster that was well past its peak. The Lombardi teams really peaked in 1961, '62 and '63, even though it did not win the Championship in 1963. There were no playoffs, just a championship game between the two conference champs, and the Packers finished 2nd in the West with an 11-2-1 record. They drubbed the Browns in the "Runnerup Bowl" that year, which was played by the 2nd place teams. In 1964 they not only finished 2nd, but also lost the Runnerup bowl, and many that their time had passed. That whole string of three Championships was very exciting, because it was unexpected in so many ways.

[The Shadow]

[quote

1. I wasn't around in the 1960s, but I've done plenty of reading and watching films from that era. To hear old farts blabber on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Starr...

2.The Packers were ALWAYS playoff contenders with Favre (4-12???)under center...the same cannot be said for Starr. That is the bottom line, even if some choose to ignore it.[/quote]


1. There is really no substitute for primary sources in these matters.
2. Correct. Under Starr's guidance, they did not simply contend - they WON!

[The Leaper]

Again, that was one of the things that made the Packers three Championships in 1965-67 so special. It was achieved by a roster that was well past its peak.

Sure, the OFFENSE was "well past its peak"...which is my entire point. Everyone creams their pants over the offense on those teams...the first guys mentioned in terms of the "Lombardi era" are Starr, Taylor, Hornung, Gregg and Kramer.

However, I completely disagree with you on the other side of the football Patler. I don't know where you come off suggesting most of the Packer defensive stars were "well past their peak."

Was Willie Wood past his peak in 1964-1967? Of course not. He was voted to the Pro Bowl TEN STRAIGHT SEASONS, beginning in 1962. The fact is that Wood was a HOF defensive player in his PRIME from 1965-1967.

Was Herb Adderly past his peak in 1965-1967? Of course not. He was an All-Pro selection EIGHT STRAIGHT SEASONS, beginning in 1962. The fact is that Adderly was a HOF defensive player in his PRIME from 1965-1967.

Was Willie Davis past his peak in 1965-1967? Yes, I believe so...but I think he would be very comparable to Reggie White in 1996. Davis was in his prime as a HOF defensive player from 1963-1965, so he wasn't far removed from his prime just a couple years later. Thus, he was still a stud in the period you mention.

Was Ray Nitschke past his peak in 1965-1967? Here I am somewhat in agreement with you. Ray was not the player at the end of the Lombardi dynasty that he was at the beginning. However, like Davis, Nitschke remained a fearsome player not far removed from his prime.

Let's also consider the other major contributors on defense in the period you mention (1965-1967).

LB Dave Robinson...a 1963 draft pick, a 3 time Pro Bowl pick (66, 67, 69)who certainly was IN HIS PRIME from 1965-1970 in Green Bay.

LB Lee Roy Caffey...a 1963 draft pick, he was not a HOF caliber player, but he did go to the Pro Bowl in 66 and was clearly IN HIS PRIME from 1965-1968 in Green Bay.

DT Henry Jordan...a solid starter who was definately past his peak. His prime was during the early Lombardi years.

DB Rob Jeter and DB Tom Brown were both capable starters who were in their mid-to-late 20's from 1965-1967. Hardly "past their peak".

I'm sorry Patler...you are dead wrong about the Packers defense in the Starr era. Lombardi's defense early was mostly average during his first 4-5 years in Green Bay. Then, as Adderly, Wood, Robinson and Caffey came into their prime alongside guys like Davis, Jordan and Nitschke...who were aging but still very solid, it created a NASTY defense that was quite possibly the best in the league from 1964-1968.

While the offensive stars were certainly past their peak by SB 1 and 2, the defense was by no means past its peak. The defense crumbled when Lombardi left...and guys like Adderly moved on to greener pastures. To claim Starr was surrounded by a bunch of has-beens in SB 1 and 2 ignores just how strong the Packer defense was in those years.

[Patler]

1. I wasn't around in the 1960s, but I've done plenty of reading and watching films from that era. To hear old farts blabber on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Starr...

2.The Packers were ALWAYS playoff contenders with Favre (4-12???)under center...the same cannot be said for Starr. That is the bottom line, even if some choose to ignore it.

1. There is really no substitute for primary sources in these matters.
2. Correct. Under Starr's guidance, they did not simply contend - they WON!

Shadow;

I don't know how many of us on here actually watched Starr. I of course did, as apparently you did too.

I loved watching Favre, and watching Starr was probably never as exciting. BUT, I have to admit that I never worried about Starr making a bonehead play, or just throwing a ball up for grabs. It just didn't happen. He was a very patient player who could go for the juggler when the time was right.

I think when fans have only seen one great player at a position on their team, they tend to discount all others. When you have seen more than one you tend to compare more objectively, But I will admit that I have a hard time appreciating players I never saw, and probably prejudically think of the ones I have seen as being better. I think that clouds many fans' appreciation of Starr. They never saw what he did, they have seen only plays here and there. If you listen to the Packer players from that era, they all recognize Starr as the key to their success for many reasons.