FORCE OUT, FACEMASK RULES CHANGED

[Gunakor]

How do you carry a WR out of bounds? Does a DB literally catch them and run out of bounds? (laughs) Sounds like ballet. The force out gone is a great thing, everything's cut and dry and our secondary can now use the sidelines to their advantage just like everyon else. With how hard Bigby (and Collins at times) flies to the ball I like the odds that we will make good use of the new rule.

No, it's not long distances. I'm talking about catching a reciever mid jump and carring him a foot or three out of bounds. It's different from pushing the guy out. He's being carried out. If a throw to a reciever is right on the sidelines it's not that hard for a defender to do.

Yeah, it's a great thing for our defense that this thing is gone. But what about our offense? What happens when we are running our 2-min offense and have to throw more twoards the middle of the field to move the ball? Can't throw high to the sidelines over the corners to stop the clock anymore. If you do, the defender could simply grab onto our reciever mid-flight and fall out of bounds bringing our guy with him, thus making it an incomplete pass and a wasted down. That just doesn't seem fair to me if our reciever would have fallen in bounds on his own.

[BallHawk]

I don't get the rule about the coach being able to defer. Somebody care to explain?

Isnt it so that the team that wins the coin flip can pick which way they want to go instead of kicking off or returning the kickoff? Seems like this would be a great advantage on windy days.

That would make sense and that may be what it is but the article says

"Another rules change involves the opening coin toss, where the NFL will now adopt the college rule that allows the coach to defer his choice of kicking or receiving until the second half. "

Is that just a typo?

[sharpe1027]

I don't get the rule about the coach being able to defer. Somebody care to explain?

Isnt it so that the team that wins the coin flip can pick which way they want to go instead of kicking off or returning the kickoff? Seems like this would be a great advantage on windy days.

That would make sense and that may be what it is but the article says

"Another rules change involves the opening coin toss, where the NFL will now adopt the college rule that allows the coach to defer his choice of kicking or receiving until the second half. "

Is that just a typo?

I believe that the college rule is if you win the coin toss you can select to receive or kick or defer. If you select to receive or kick, the other team can still choose to receive in the second half. So you never choose to kick (because then you would end up kicking at the start and at the half), instead you defer. The team that does not choose kick/receive, get's to pick sides.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Lurker64]

Good changes, all of them.

[The Leaper]

If you do, the defender could simply grab onto our reciever mid-flight and fall out of bounds bringing our guy with him, thus making it an incomplete pass and a wasted down. That just doesn't seem fair to me if our reciever would have fallen in bounds on his own.

So run routes that end 2 yards inside the sideline rather than right on the edge.

The NFL seemed to operate just fine for decades without the damn force out rule, so I don't see why your panties are in a bunch now that it has been taken away. The offense still has plenty of rules that favor it.

[twoseven]

How do you carry a WR out of bounds? Does a DB literally catch them and run out of bounds? (laughs) Sounds like ballet. The force out gone is a great thing, everything's cut and dry and our secondary can now use the sidelines to their advantage just like everyon else. With how hard Bigby (and Collins at times) flies to the ball I like the odds that we will make good use of the new rule.

No, it's not long distances. I'm talking about catching a reciever mid jump and carring him a foot or three out of bounds. It's different from pushing the guy out. He's being carried out. If a throw to a reciever is right on the sidelines it's not that hard for a defender to do.

Yeah, it's a great thing for our defense that this thing is gone. But what about our offense? What happens when we are running our 2-min offense and have to throw more twoards the middle of the field to move the ball? Can't throw high to the sidelines over the corners to stop the clock anymore. If you do, the defender could simply grab onto our reciever mid-flight and fall out of bounds bringing our guy with him, thus making it an incomplete pass and a wasted down. That just doesn't seem fair to me if our reciever would have fallen in bounds on his own.

The idea of actually catching a guy in midair and then carrying him out of bounds..when do you realistically envision something like this happening? Can you ever recall it happening in college? Meanwhile, if the WR is in the air, what is the DB doing on the ground when he should be in the air as well defending the pass? Are DBs going to give up on playing the ball now and opt to take their chances catching and carrying WRs when they are near the sidelines? Bet the secondary coaches will love that. I'll believe the rule change is hollow when I see it.

Bottom line: any rule change that takes the referees' ability to huddle up and waste everybody's time for a judgement call that they can easily screw up is a good thing.

[Gunakor]

How do you carry a WR out of bounds? Does a DB literally catch them and run out of bounds? (laughs) Sounds like ballet. The force out gone is a great thing, everything's cut and dry and our secondary can now use the sidelines to their advantage just like everyon else. With how hard Bigby (and Collins at times) flies to the ball I like the odds that we will make good use of the new rule.

No, it's not long distances. I'm talking about catching a reciever mid jump and carring him a foot or three out of bounds. It's different from pushing the guy out. He's being carried out. If a throw to a reciever is right on the sidelines it's not that hard for a defender to do.

Yeah, it's a great thing for our defense that this thing is gone. But what about our offense? What happens when we are running our 2-min offense and have to throw more twoards the middle of the field to move the ball? Can't throw high to the sidelines over the corners to stop the clock anymore. If you do, the defender could simply grab onto our reciever mid-flight and fall out of bounds bringing our guy with him, thus making it an incomplete pass and a wasted down. That just doesn't seem fair to me if our reciever would have fallen in bounds on his own.

The idea of actually catching a guy in midair and then carrying him out of bounds..when do you realistically envision something like this happening? Can you ever recall it happening in college? Meanwhile, if the WR is in the air, what is the DB doing on the ground when he should be in the air as well defending the pass? Are DBs going to give up on playing the ball now and opt to take their chances catching and carrying WRs when they are near the sidelines? Bet the secondary coaches will love that. I'll believe the rule change is hollow when I see it.

Bottom line: any rule change that takes the referees' ability to huddle up and waste everybody's time for a judgement call that they can easily screw up is a good thing.

It already has happened. That's what alot of the force out calls/non calls were about. What, do you think that all forceouts were a defender putting two palms on a guy and nudging him out of bounds? Hell no, alot of times its a defender wrapping up a reciever midflight and falling out of bounds carrying the reciever with them.

The point wasn't about that anyway. Mike Pereria, VP of NFL officiating, said a couple days ago in a clip taken at the owners meetings something about a difference between a push out and being carried out. So regardless how some rats feel about it, apparently the NFL thinks enough of it to make a point about it. My original point, if you go back to it, was that they are not removing a judgement call if this is the case, simply replacing one judgement call with another. I'm not pulling this crap about a reciever carried out of bounds out of nowhere - The NFL has made a point about it. So regardless of the regularity of it happening, it is a relevant topic of discussion. I don't have better explaination of it - call the NFL and have them explain it to you. It's thier deal.

[twoseven]

It already has happened. That's what alot of the force out calls/non calls were about. What, do you think that all forceouts were a defender putting two palms on a guy and nudging him out of bounds? Hell no, alot of times its a defender wrapping up a reciever midflight and falling out of bounds carrying the reciever with them.

The point wasn't about that anyway. Mike Pereria, VP of NFL officiating, said a couple days ago in a clip taken at the owners meetings something about a difference between a push out and being carried out. So regardless how some rats feel about it, apparently the NFL thinks enough of it to make a point about it. My original point, if you go back to it, was that they are not removing a judgement call if this is the case, simply replacing one judgement call with another. I'm not pulling this crap about a reciever carried out of bounds out of nowhere - The NFL has made a point about it. So regardless of the regularity of it happening, it is a relevant topic of discussion. I don't have better explaination of it - call the NFL and have them explain it to you. It's thier deal.

[RashanGary]

They're replacing one judgement call that needs to be made every week around the NFL with another judgement call that might only need to be made a couple times per year. I'm OK with it.

[ND72]

The force out rule change is odd -- this gives dbacks a big advantage on fade routes and jump balls. I don't recall a big groundswell of fan opposition to the rule. Just strange.

That might have been the dumbest rule in all of sports. The ref is being asked to guess about what MIGHT have happened. Even with replay there is no way to know. Good bye stupid rule.

You're still angry from the Cardinals game a few years back...

[texaspackerbacker]

After reading the text of the changes, I still see great potential for abuse. I was exaggerating with the example of a catch on the hash marks and being carried out--although even that theoretically could happen. It seems like you will see a lot of receivers leaping a yard or two in bounds and being carried or propelled out--resulting in an incompletion.

Obviously they want to reduce the instances of judgment calls, but this is going to have a huge number of cases that seem wrong--but are within the letter of the rule. There will be DBs who practice and get skillful at doing this to the point where it wrongly influences outcomes--IMO.

[Joemailman]

Getting rid of the force out rule could have a big impact in goal-to-go situations. Because of the limited space involved, many passes end up getting thrown near the sideline, or the back of the end zone. The advantage that tall WR's and TE's had in these situations will be much less now.

[Rastak]

The force out rule change is odd -- this gives dbacks a big advantage on fade routes and jump balls. I don't recall a big groundswell of fan opposition to the rule. Just strange.

That might have been the dumbest rule in all of sports. The ref is being asked to guess about what MIGHT have happened. Even with replay there is no way to know. Good bye stupid rule.

You're still angry from the Cardinals game a few years back...

Stupid rule before that game , stupid rule after that game.

[The Leaper]

Obviously they want to reduce the instances of judgment calls, but this is going to have a huge number of cases that seem wrong--but are within the letter of the rule. There will be DBs who practice and get skillful at doing this to the point where it wrongly influences outcomes--IMO.

So why wasn't this an issue in the league before the "force-out" rule was first instituted 10-15 years ago? Where were the DBs that were skillful at carrying guys out of bounds at that time?

[Gunakor]

Obviously they want to reduce the instances of judgment calls, but this is going to have a huge number of cases that seem wrong--but are within the letter of the rule. There will be DBs who practice and get skillful at doing this to the point where it wrongly influences outcomes--IMO.

So why wasn't this an issue in the league before the "force-out" rule was first instituted 10-15 years ago? Where were the DBs that were skillful at carrying guys out of bounds at that time?

I believe it WAS an issue at the time, which is why the rule was put in place to begin with. Why else would they have come up with it in the first place? The league doesn't just add/change rules for the sake of adding/changing them. There's always a reason behind it.