Camp competitions

[Deputy Nutz]

Manuel will get every opportunity to succeed as the starting safety. If he fails I am really not that worried, I thought he was a safe pick up, but they still had Roman , who is an average safety in this league, and they also have Underwood. Signing Manuel really improved the depth at safety more than anything else, he isn't going to be a pro bowler, he doesn't cause enough turnovers.

[Patler]

Collins missed more tackles because he was able to cover twice the field area that Roman can cover.
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If that's true, than Collins should have had more tackles than Roman. He didn't Roman had more tackles than Collins. Roman made more tackles and missed fewer. Collins made fewer and missed more. Makes me think we are over valuing what Collins accomplished and under valuing what Roman gave the team.

[KYPack]

KY, just a couple comments, because I sort of agree with HH.

Collins was a worse tackler in 2005 than Roman. Collins missed 19 tackles, which was more than Sharper ever missed in a year, and much more than Roman who had 12 missed tackles in 2005.

Manuel was not a very expensive FA, at $2,million per year average and a cap figure under $2 million in 2006. With a salary cap over $100 million, he is being paid only an "average" amount. I don't think he was brought in because they expect a big improvement in his play over Roman's, I think he was brought in because of his ability to direct the d-backfield on the field. They've lacked that ever since Butler left, and Manuel is supposed to be very good in that regard. His individual play might not be better than Roman, but overall the backfield might perform better with him on the field.

There are other comments below in other posts, but if you agree w/ HH, then I disagree with both of ya. Statistics don't represent this argument very well. Roman has been inconsistent his whole stay here, and in his whole NFL career, for that matter.

Roman "disappears" from time to time, and his mistakes at crucial times costs the team games. These incosistencies will cost Roman his starting job.

I've seen both guys play for most of their career. Manuel is the superior player, but he ain't flawless, either. He has coverage issues, and loses confidence when beaten deep, which can happen to the boy. He will bring the wood to some running backs and recievers. His hitting is infectious and his overall spirit will help our D.

As far as Collins missing more tackles, he was a rook, fer crissakes. Collins made a huge leap in his first year and will be a leader for us for years to come, barring injury.

[Patler]

He is a playmaker...like Sharper...and those guys will sometimes miss a tackle because they are trying to make a play.

Collins was a playmaker...like Sharper? Are you kidding? Based on his ONE interception and numerous drops?

Sharper came into the league with questions about his college background too, having played at William & Mary. More players have been drafted from Bethune-Cookman in the last 25 years than from Willam & Mary. Sharper is the only one in the last 15 years from W&M. Yet in a part time role as a rookie Sharper had two interceptions, both returned for touchdowns.

I'm not suggesting Collins won't turn out to be a better player than Roman, he very likely will. But he has a lot to prove yet before he becomes the all-pro that some seem to think he is. He has a long way to go before being a playmaker to the extent Sharper has been. Collins had a good rookie year, but let's not blow it out of reasonable proportions.

[Patler]

KY; I think you have the wrong impression. I expect Manuel will be the starter in place of Roman, mostly because of his leadership abilities, things like that. The backfield needs a player like him. However, I believe Roman played considerably better in 2005 than in 2004 and was not completely awful.

[Patler]

I also think the exuberance over Collins should be tempered just a bit, not because I don't think he will be good, I think he will. But, his year last year was good, not great. Hopefully he will build on it. If he doesn't he will be one of those player you can play with, but he won't be a difference maker. 2006 will be an interesting year to follow Collins. I also think Manuel may have been brought in because he can help with Collins development more than Roman could, with on-field guidance.

[KYPack]

KY; I think you have the wrong impression. I expect Manuel will be the starter in place of Roman, mostly because of his leadership abilities, things like that. The backfield needs a player like him. However, I believe Roman played considerably better in 2005 than in 2004 and was not completely awful.

OK, Patrock.

I was going by your statement that you sided with HH (who is probably running a game on me anyway)

Yeah, Roman CAN play at a decent level, he just doesn't do it enough to be an NFL starter. The other problem with the guy is that he doesn't lead the defense or get anybody fired up. Coaches hate it when the safety screws up. It brings the whole "D" down.

Manuel is that kind of player. Hopefully they can get him in schemes that will help him with his coverage problems.

[Guiness]

IIRC (and I might well not) Sharper's two INTs in his rookie year were in dime defense situations, where he was put out as a center fielder. So he would've had no real coverage assignment, except to be a ball hawk. Collins was the starter, so was never allowed to roam like that.

I think Collins had a very good first year, but as you state, not exceptional. Having played at full speed for a year, I'm anxious to see how he is now that he comes into his sophmore camp with some confidence as the incumbent starter.

As far as Roman - *shrug* a mediocre player. Seems to get beat deep for TD's when he's playing the deep safety.

[red]

i think green will definately be the starter, no doubt in my mind

i think you will have to throw taylor into the mix at the LBer battle, and maybe barnett. you take the best two guys at whatever spot they are best at. if hodge is the best MLB, then he should be there. if taylor or manning are the best outside then they should start there. if barnett is the best at any position, he should go there

i also think you have to throw jennings into the wr battle. he might not be a #2 yet, but he should be a #3, which is where the losser of the #2 battle between gardner and fergy should be. and who knows, they say jennings was the most nfl ready wr in the draft, maybe he can step in at #2 right away.

TC will tell

[The Leaper]

Sharper came into the league with questions about his college background too, having played at William & Mary. More players have been drafted from Bethune-Cookman in the last 25 years than from Willam & Mary. Sharper is the only one in the last 15 years from W&M. Yet in a part time role as a rookie Sharper had two interceptions, both returned for touchdowns.

Sharper's rookie year was 1997. The defense was still extremely talented, and the team overall remained a title contender. Sharper had LeRoy Butler next to him...who arguably was the best safety in the NFL at the time and who played up at the line of scrimmage, allowing Sharper to not have to play the entire field. Collins came into a situation where the defense was one of the worst in team history the year before and lacked playmakers across the board. Don't sit here and try to tell me that the two situations are at all comparable.

I never said Collins was an All-Pro, or even a potential All-Pro. He had an excellent rookie season for a kid who didn't play against elite competition in college and was an immediate starter on a team with massive problems at all levels on defense. 19 missed tackles for a rookie who covers a large portion of the field on a subpar defense and showed marked improvement from week 1 through week 17 isn't abominable IMO. That was my point. If Collins is going to turn into an All-Pro level performer, he is going to have to capitalize on offensive miscues and reduce his mistakes...which includes missed tackles.

[MadtownPacker]

If that's true, than Collins should have had more tackles than Roman. He didn't Roman had more tackles than Collins. Roman made more tackles and missed fewer. Collins made fewer and missed more. Makes me think we are over valuing what Collins accomplished and under valuing what Roman gave the team.

Well if Roman was tackling more maybe that is because the guy he was covering caught the ball more? The where numerous plays where Collins leveled the receiver, which caused an incompletion. Just ask Chad Johnson. Haha, I still love that monster hit Collins served him.

[Patler]

I've said Collins had a good year, but the fact he was a starter probably had more to do with the lack of talent on defense more than his own readiness to play. So far he has shown an ability to be in position to be a play maker, but he has not shown the ability to actually be one. Way to early to call him a playmaker.

[Patler]

If that's true, than Collins should have had more tackles than Roman. He didn't Roman had more tackles than Collins. Roman made more tackles and missed fewer. Collins made fewer and missed more. Makes me think we are over valuing what Collins accomplished and under valuing what Roman gave the team.

Well if Roman was tackling more maybe that is because the guy he was covering caught the ball more? The where numerous plays where Collins leveled the receiver, which caused an incompletion. Just ask Chad Johnson. Haha, I still love that monster hit Collins served him.

Collins has shown an ability to hit. I've tried to remember this morning, but can't. Who was the guy that Roman absolutely leveled in the early part of the season? It was very impressive at the time, and shocking. I saw the hit and thought "must be Collins" then he turned and I saw it was Roman and figured they switched jerseys!

[MadtownPacker]

I've said Collins had a good year, but the fact he was a starter probably had more to do with the lack of talent on defense more than his own readiness to play. So far he has shown an ability to be in position to be a play maker, but he has not shown the ability to actually be one. Way to early to call him a playmaker.

I guess your right about that, for now. Collins had many passes slip through his hands. Those passes are going to look alot slower this season and I expect him to make the INT. He starts making those pick and he is a playmaker for sure.

[The Leaper]

Way to early to call him a playmaker.

I'm calling him a playmaker because that is the style of play he fits under, not because I think he one of the top playmakers in the NFL at present.

Roman is not a playmaker. He is slow, and relatively weak hitting. He plays smart, disciplined football because he doesn't have the athletic ability to create plays on his own very often. Collins is a playmaker because he is much quicker and has the athletic ability to capitalize on offensive mistakes and even recover to some extent on mistakes of his own. Several times last year he got himself in position to make a play, but didn't capitalize. Rather than worry about a rookie not capitalizing, I see it as a huge positive that he got himself in a position to make a play. That is why he is a playmaker. Now, he just needs to gain confidence in the system and his ability in order to make the play. That is the natural evolution of most young football players.