Today's optimistic Vandermause Packers column from GBPG

[texaspackerbacker]

Leaper, I have never been one to badmouth Brett Favre, and I certainly wouldn't deny the quality of the Packer receivers last year and this year. I'm just saying it was a combination of that and his extraordinary preparation last season.

As for the idea of fluff/KoolAid versus negativity, what gets me is when the negativists act like they are being realistic. All objective evidence says that barring injuries or extreme bad luck or a total flop by Aaron Rodgers, '08 should be every bit as good or better than '07. Thus, KoolAid IS realism.

[Packnut]

Re: Rodgers

The offense moved the ball last year b/c of Favre... when teams began to focus on stopping him that opened up the running game at the same time that the OL began to gel a little bit and Grant stepped to the fore.

Teams will be prepared for the running game and make Rodgers prove it... I don't know why everyone is getting a fuzzy feeling about Rodgers ??? b/c of 3/4 of a game under center in mop-up duty against Dallas??? I have higher hopes for Brohm.

Beyond that, it's not like the Packers don't have problems in the here and now... Harris, Woodson, Clifton, and Tausher are all vital cogs, and all of them have shown cracks in the armor; can Lee be good enough to take over the Nickel role??? If not, then we only have 2 viable, NFL ready CB's on the roster... everyone else is "developing" and surely has a bullseye on their back.

We can't expect any new starters out of this draft - and the new starter we'll get from last years draft (Harrell) is a step in the wrong direction. Rouse probably deserves a shot at unseating either Collins or Bigby, probably Collins, but they likely view Collins as a much better matchup in coverage than Rouse, so that doesn't seem likely to happen.

And then there is the incalcuable loss of Favre... if they struggle early, I think it's just as likely that they could be in for a very long season as they could ride Rodgers arm to glory.

They'll be in the hunt for the division probably, but not a serious threat to make a playoff run - not with Rodgers as the starter. He's going to be under a ton of pressure, he's proven to be fragile... just don't see it.

What have you specifically seen from Rodgers that puts the doubt in your mind?

He rolls out well; he runs well.......he doesn't fear running much......he doesn't feel the rush as good as Favre..........all that couple with his injuries worry me

Not to mention.........his arm is not as strong as Favre even at age 39. He won't have the same velocity to fit some of those throws in.

I'm in the middle on Rodgers overall; but until we see him do it over a course of time there will be doubt

I do like reading wist in here to debate some of the fluff as well.

No doubt Brett was one of a kind. Rodgers will not be anywhere near the caliber of our HOF QB. However, that said, I am of the opinion that he does'nt have to be in order to succeed and I'll explain why.

Favre played on some awful defensive teams. He knew going in if he does'nt put up 24+, the chances are they would lose. Since 96/97, he really did'nt have any help from his wideouts. I was never a Freeman fan and Brooksie going down really hurt. So Brett pretty much carried us.

Fast forward to now. While we have a bland-less clue-less defensive cooridinator , we have enough talent on the defensive side to make up for the piss poor coaching. Rodgers does'nt have to win by himself. He can afford to throw it away or take a sack. He has a lot less pressure on him than Brett did.

Rodgers has the best 4 WR combo in the NFL. NO ONE has anything near our #3 and #4. I would also argue that the Lee/Finley duo has the POTENTIAL to be outstanding. Rodgers also has a run game, all-be-it inconsistent. Still, Grant has the ability to take it to the house which EVERY defense will have to respect.

My point is Rodgers has more going for him now than Brett did since 96/97. If ever a new QB was in a perfect position, Rodgers is. He does'nt have to be anywhere near #04.

[wist43]

He doesn't have Brett's arm, durability, or experience...

but WTH, it's the offseason - Super Bowl or bust

[Packnut]

Favre

He doesn't have Brett's arm, durability, or experience...

but WTH, it's the offseason - Super Bowl or bust

Well, you'll have to excuse my Rodgers-euphoria, lest I fall into a deep dark depression about not seeing #04 playing for the Green and Gold again.

(trying to put a positive spin on what is a rotten situation)

[wist43]

I'm not negative per se... it's simply in my nature to see and address the problems that I feel will prevent us from winning a championship - in this case, the lack of a championship calibur QB.

I don't believe Rodgers can deliver a championship, so I'm looking beyond him, which is why I'm glad they brought Brohm in. I don't know if Brohm is the guy or not, but I'm reasonably sure Rodgers isn't.

I'd like to see the team do well, win the division, etc... but, if that's all we're going to be capable of with Rodgers at the helm I'd just as soon move on in an attempt to find "the guy".

[RashanGary]

I'm not going to come out and predict grand things, but all Rodgers has done the last two off seasons is perform at a high level (+100 QB ratings). Then he had one real chance last regular season and he showed he could do it then too against a pass rush that was relentless.

Maybe he'll flop, but I'm coming around to the idea that maybe he is good. I'm trying to hold off any real predictions until after the preseason games. If he reads defenses well, adjusts the play at the line, makes good decisions and good throws, I'll be ready to commit to a big year. If not, I'll temper my enthusiasm.

[Joemailman]

He doesn't have Brett's arm, durability, or experience...

but WTH, it's the offseason - Super Bowl or bust

Well okay, but the same could be said for Eli Manning. Did you happen to catch the Super Bowl on TV?

[RashanGary]

Some people are scared of their own shadows. There are no sure things anywhere you look. Why not embrace change and see the positive potential with the negative. Everything is not a cloud of doom.

[The Leaper]

He doesn't have Brett's arm, durability, or experience...

but WTH, it's the offseason - Super Bowl or bust

Well okay, but the same could be said for Eli Manning. Did you happen to catch the Super Bowl on TV?

Plenty of Packer fans were also saying the same thing about a young QB named Brett Favre in 1993 and 1994...that he wasn't championship caliber and that Holmgren should put Brunell in.

To claim Rodgers doesn't have the ability to win a title before he even gets to start one game in the league is looney. I'm fine with claiming Green Bay would have a better chance to win with Favre, but Rodgers could easily put up a very strong season with the offense he should have to work with. Time will tell...I'm not writing the kid or 2008 season off already as a lost cause.

[vince]

I'm not negative per se... it's simply in my nature to see and address the problems that I feel will prevent us from winning a championship - in this case, the lack of a championship calibur QB.

I don't believe Rodgers can deliver a championship, so I'm looking beyond him, which is why I'm glad they brought Brohm in. I don't know if Brohm is the guy or not, but I'm reasonably sure Rodgers isn't.

I'd like to see the team do well, win the division, etc... but, if that's all we're going to be capable of with Rodgers at the helm I'd just as soon move on in an attempt to find "the guy".

wist, you're a great sport and all, but your negative spin has been consistently wrong for the last two years and counting. During McCarthy's first year, you assessed the team as "at least two years from being remotely competitive." I'm glad this upcoming year we'll finally be able to witness a "competitive" team...

Around the same time, you suggested that, even though the Packers team came together strong to finish 8-8 that year, the team was really a only 4-12 team, since that was the record you predicted they'd achieve that year before the season began.

Last year, you pretty much disappeared altogether.

You're likely no more correct in your negative assessment about Rodgers than you've been with the rest of your negative "assessments" for the last two years.

[RashanGary]

Pessemism is a cognitive disease that greatly distorts ones view of reality. These people are consistantly wrong because they are unable to see reality. They only see the chicken little version that their brain extrapolated from one gloomy piece of data. Sometimes it's schemed up without one iota of data. It's just a big gloomy halucination that they try to pass off, to themselves and others, as reality. Let us try to better understand those who are blinded from the light of the sun, not laugh at them for their consistant awkward and dilusional views of the world. They cannot help their inability to logically reason in these cases, it's a disease. It's who they are.

Symptoms:

Always pointing out when something is wrong, but never having any answers

Overuse of words and phrases like, such as: "we're doomed", "we're screwed", "It's not going to get better", "we're lacking", "our team is insufficiantly prepared for. . . ", "this isn't the answer"

Receives advice from friends and family to look on the bright side more often

Often wonders why the rest of the world can't see the gloomy reality for what it is


If you or anyone you know has these symptoms have them call 1-800-itsOKman

There is a good chance this person is dangerously close to suicide and needs your help. Please, don't delay. Call now.



Life is a dark and violent thunderstorm for some people. Don't let your loved one make that final decision of what buzz to feel before they turn off the lights for good. Really, that buzz will probably be good for about 2 minutes but then it will be illness, followed by regret as they realize they acctually want to live, but are too intoxicated to walk to the phone for help. The next think they'll see is satans lair and a big well endowed horse with sharp horns and a gotee preparing to throttle them. Please, do you want your loved one to be throttled in hell by an evil horned horse for the rest of eternity? NO, you don't. Call now.

[Lurker64]

I'm not negative per se... it's simply in my nature to see and address the problems that I feel will prevent us from winning a championship - in this case, the lack of a championship calibur QB.

Like Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, or Kurt Warner?

The last 12 superbowls have been won by those guys, Manning, Brady, Elway, and Favre. I think there's a bit of a divide between the former group and the latter, but I could be wrong.

[RashanGary]

Do you have a point, Lurker?

[Lurker64]

Do you have a point, Lurker?

I'm just wondering:
a) What "Championship Caliber QB" means, exactly.
b) Whether or not Wist believes that Rodgers can't be a better player than, say, Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson (and c) if anybody can, with a straight face, say Rodgers couldn't hold Dilfer's jock.)

[RashanGary]

haha, sorry. I thought you were saying something completely different. Plus, I have an bad attitude toward you right now