RB Ryan Grant optimistic about new contract

[bobblehead]

A lot of good points made on this issue.

First, Bubba Franks was a similar situation....sort of. We transitioned him with a one year tender and had his rights. Difference is that Bubba put in 5 productive seasons with us and worked his ass off every offseason. Another point about that...Bubba signed a longer deal worth LESS than the one year tender. He gave something up for the longer deal. That is all I ask that RG be expected to do. Paying him more just cuz he played well with nothing in return to the franchise isn't a "fair" compromise.

Second, someone said "why should he be punished for being overlooked in the draft". He wasn't "overlooked", he couldn't even cut it as a full time starter for his college team. The situation was not "out of his control" as someone put it, it was very much in his control and he failed to excel.

Third, someone asked who has more potential, BJack or Grant. Truth is, I THINK grant, but honestly can't say. How about we give BJack 1 year on the practice squad and another 2 years to adjust to NFL speed then compare them on equal footing. The difference at this point is that BJack was contributing in his rookie year already, Grant never really contributed to an NFL team until week 8? last year. When BJack is 25 and has a few years under his belt we can compare them.

Last point was TD for denver. Denver has shown a propensity to pay guys way prematurely I admit and I don't want to follow their model. TD had 1100+ yards as a rookie in 14 games started and was given a 5 year 6.8Million contract before the next season....I have no clue how that compares to todays cap situation or his contract at the time or years til FA or anything, but they did give him a deal after one year so point taken.

MY point on all this goes as follows. RG can't even talk to another team until 2011 (3 seasons) and we are obligated to pay him ABOUT 2.2 Million in that time. Any deal we work out would have to be MINIMUM 5 years to be fair to the packers. Assuming (big assumption) that top Backs make about 6 million at that time with the new collective bargaining that would mean he deserves about 6+6+2.2 or 14.2 million for a 5 year deal.

He is a good citizen, hopefully talented as he looks. If I were GM I would offer him 15 Million for 5 years with about 3.5 garaunteed for this season. That would be a fair deal, and if TT offers that he will be ridiculed on this site mercilessly (people seem to think he should get a BIG deal) so his best course of action is probably to tell RG to pound sand. Anyway I hope it works out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Re: RG

Eric Rhett... Got his money after having one terrific season, just like Grant is trying to do now. Rhett fell of the face of the NFL immediately after. Bad investment. One would think GM's would learn from Tampa Bay's mistake. One season doesn't prove anything. Grant is still unproven, and should be paid as such.

You bring up Rhett, but the more similar situation is Ahman Green. Ahman sat for two years in Seattle. Then, he had a good 10 game stretch in his first year with the Packers (he took over as the starter when Dorsey got injured in 2000). Sounds VERY familiar, doesn't it? Packers gave him a long-term deal for $3M/year for 5 years. At the time, that was decent money for Ahman, but it ended up being a big bargain for the Packers. It's up to Thompson to evaluate Grant properly and give him an offer accordingly.

[Guiness]

Re: RG

As for bad things happen when you think of them...what a bunch of superstition. As if only thinking good things leads to good things.

I guess that isn't working out for grant..you don't think he was thinking positive last year when he accumulated those yards..and that it would lead to a lucrative offer?

Maybe not superstition, but there's something to be said for hearing footsteps. You're tense, and yes, shit does happen then.

I'm sending you positive energy now, Mr. Bigguns. Channeling through a pyrite for Health and Wellbeing. Can you feel the difference?

[Guiness]

Re: RG

Eric Rhett... Got his money after having one terrific season, just like Grant is trying to do now. Rhett fell of the face of the NFL immediately after. Bad investment. One would think GM's would learn from Tampa Bay's mistake. One season doesn't prove anything. Grant is still unproven, and should be paid as such.

He actually wasn't so bad. He didn't fall off the face...he held out for half a year, and got his money. But Tampa drafted Warrick Dunn the following spring, and Mike Alsott the year after. Rhett wasn't getting carries, and was sent to Baltimore - where he only started for one season before being displaced by Priest Holmes!

[Guiness]

Re: RG

You bring up Rhett, but the more similar situation is Ahman Green. Ahman sat for two years in Seattle. Then, he had a good 10 game stretch in his first year with the Packers (he took over as the starter when Dorsey got injured in 2000). Sounds VERY familiar, doesn't it? Packers gave him a long-term deal for $3M/year for 5 years. At the time, that was decent money for Ahman, but it ended up being a big bargain for the Packers. It's up to Thompson to evaluate Grant properly and give him an offer accordingly.

Is it similar though? Didn't Green have two accrued seasons in Seattle, so 3 after his year with the Packers? Grant has one...

I like Bobblehead's comment on the 'overlooked in the draft', and what BJack will look like in a few years. Grant wasn't overlooked. His first 2 years, and going into his 3rd were about right for a 6th rounder...one year on the PS, a year on IR, 4th string or so in the Giants TC.

I know RB's are more in an 'instant gratification' position, but having all that time on a roster to gain strength, and learn the game couldn't have hurt him!

[RashanGary]

I'd say 5 years, 20 million would be about what Grant can fetch at this point. Only about 4 of it should be up front.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: RG

Maybe I missed it, but when did Grant use the Javon Walker argument about risk of injury as his reason for wanting a better contract? He's not practicing now when he is not signed, but normally the team will not allow them to anyway, because of the injury risk.

I don't recall Grant being quoted as saying he wants a bigger contract because of the risk of injury, just that he believes he has earned a better offer than what he has been given.

Facts are not always your friend Sir Patler.

He may not say it but I am willing to bet he is thinking it. I went overboard with the walker comparison but usually when you fear bad things is when they happen in my experience.

I highly doubt he is even aware of Jwalk as he wasn't on the pack when walker was here.

As for bad things happen when you think of them...what a bunch of superstition. As if only thinking good things leads to good things.

I guess that isn't working out for grant..you don't think he was thinking positive last year when he accumulated those yards..and that it would lead to a lucrative offer?

Lucrative deals are not warranted after 9 productive games. He has to show he can last a full season before a lucrative deal is warranted. What if he's just another guy, who happened to get lucky for half a season? Geez man, you make it sound so certain he's going to be our starter for the near future. What if he does turn out to be the next Eric Rhett?

I think Grant has more leverage than some of you are willing to acknowledge. Yes his performance was for less than a year, but it was consistent enough against enough different teams, it was very, very good, not just adequate and it was done without a stellar line; which indicate it was not a fluke. TT and MM know they need Grant this year. He made a big difference last year.

I am of the belief that Brett Favre aided in Ryan Grant's production tremendously just by being #4 under center. We'll see whether it was a fluke or not this year. Defenses won't be gameplanning the same way against us. Not until AR proves himself anyway. RG will probably be the main focus of alot of DC's when coming up with gameplans against us, something that he didn't have to deal with even once last year. The situation is not the same, so no, we don't know whether last year was a fluke or not.

Whatcha talkin bout willis? When did I EVER suggest he warranted a lucrative deal (btw, lucrative is quite subjective).

I suggested that is WHAT HE WAS THINKING.

Try and follow along.

BTW, i would stop with the Rhett analogy...actually works against you. Rhett had over 1000 his second year..so I and the rest of us would be happy if Grant did that.

He did hold out after that season, but STILL led the team in rushing that year and he only played 9 games.

And, he played in 7 total seasons in the NFL. That is a nice career in the NFL..especially at the RB position.

[bobblehead]

Re: RG

I think the rhett analogy is right on, he tried to hold his team hostage, didn't get a new deal!!! when he finally reported to the team, and finally faded away with little accolade with a different team later. His career was somewhat promising, but he tried to get tough and actually lost out on a much better payday if he had just played full seasons in his prime.

I like RG, I hope he gets a long term deal that is beneficial to BOTH parties, but if he wants bigtime money with virtually no leverage....well, I hope he ends up following the rhett path.

edit: I found this from a buccanear website and it sums up eric rhett well
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As for the Rhett question, I really doubt I’m the only one who could answer it, but it’s nice of you to say so. Many die-hard Buc fans would probably notice a few small inaccuracies in your question, in fact. Let’s get to those first. Number one, Rhett’s first name was actually spelled Errict, although he pronounced it Eric. Number two, Rhett was a second-round pick of the Buccaneers in 1994, the 34th player taken overall, out of Florida. And number three, it’s definitely too harsh of an assessment to say Rhett never panned out.

Rhett, in fact, is the sixth-leading rusher in franchise history, just 204 yards back of Ricky Bell.

Rhett’s 1,207-yard campaign in 1995 ranks as the fourth-best rushing season in team annals, and his 11 rushing touchdowns that year are second best to the 13 James Wilder scored in 1984. Rhett also had 1,011 rushing yards in his rookie season, most of it in the last seven games of the year. That makes him one of just three players in team history to have two 1,000-yard seasons (also Wilder and Warrick Dunn).

Probably the defining moment of Rhett’s career, however, was when he chose to hold out for the first seven games of 1996 in search of a reworked contract. He didn’t get it, and when he returned to the Bucs, he never really regained a full foothold on the job. He did finish the 1996 season as the team’s leading rusher, but Tampa Bay drafted Mike Alstott in 1996 and Warrick Dunn in 1997 and never looked back.

Rhett spent three more seasons in the league and eventually finished with 4,143 career rushing yards, 89 catches for 552 yards and 32 total touchdowns. His best post-Buc season came with Baltimore in 1999, when he rushed for 852 yards on 236 carries. (Backing up Rhett that season: Priest Holmes.) So, in all, Rhett played seven years and 86 games in the league. That may not sound like a long time, but the average career for an NFL running back is notoriously short. The Answer Man always found Rhett to be a nice guy, as well, which is perhaps why we’re taking the time to defend him here.
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This is basically what I'm saying...the guy thought he was god's gift, got tough with no leverage and never had 1,000 yards again. Again, I hope RG gets a deal fair to him AND the packers, but if we move on he might become eric rhett the second.

[RashanGary]

I'm kind of with you, bobblehead. I like Ryan Grant. I want him to play in GB for the next 5 years. I want him to get paid. I don't know if the timing is just right though. Another half a year and I think the timing would be right. Now, I think it's just a little early.

[Patler]

Re: RG

I like Bobblehead's comment on the 'overlooked in the draft', and what BJack will look like in a few years. Grant wasn't overlooked. His first 2 years, and going into his 3rd were about right for a 6th rounder...one year on the PS, a year on IR, 4th string or so in the Giants TC.

I don't get your point. Grant was not drafted. He was an undrafted free agent, never signed a drafted rookie's contract, which even for low draft choices often have some type of bonus(es), possible escalators etc. The year to year minimum, and his unfortunate, offseason lacerated forearm that caused him to miss an entire season without gaining a year's service are what have put him in this unusual situation.

[Patler]

Re: RG

I think the rhett analogy is right on, he tried to hold his team hostage, didn't get a new deal!!!

edit: I found this from a buccanear website and it sums up eric rhett well
==================================================

Probably the defining moment of Rhett’s career, however, was when he chose to hold out for the first seven games of 1996 in search of a reworked contract.

================================================== ==

This is basically what I'm saying...the guy thought he was god's gift, got tough with no leverage and never had 1,000 yards again. Again, I hope RG gets a deal fair to him AND the packers, but if we move on he might become eric rhett the second.

The situation with Rhett is completely different. He was drafted in the second round, 34th player taken according to the story. Presumably he got a signing bonus and/or other bonuses, a salary more than the minimum,etc; and he was still under contract and held out.

Grant is not under contract, and is just negotiating what contract he is willing to sign with the Packers, just like Rhett did before his rookie season; just like every other drafted player has. Grant has never had the opportunity to negotiate, he has had to take what was offered. This is his first opportunity to get more than the absolute minimum contract required.

Who knows what Grant would settle for. Maybe he would like a nice 3 year contract, with a modest bonus and escalator clauses for performance. Maybe he is just trying to say to the Packers, "I have as much potential over the next three seasons as Brandon Jackson. Pay me what you are paying him."

[texaspackerbacker]

Some of you guys are looking at this all wrong.

Who would you rather pay big money to? Adrian Peterson after one injury curtailed season, or Emmitt Smith after 7 or 8 or whatever it was when Dallas rewarded him with his big contract?

I hope nobody fails to have the good sense to say Peterson.

Experience means nothing and lack of mileage means everything when you are talking about running backs. The ideal would be signing Grant for about 5-7 years right now for something like $4-6 million a season. We would have him through his prime years, and after that contract, we do like Ahman Green, bid him a fond farewell and good luck finding somebody to waste money on his declining years.

The ONLY justification for not doing that is if somebody does NOT believe that Grant is a unique super high quality runner. I certainly believe he is every bit of that.

Comparisons to Bubba? Come on! Bubba was a first round pick who was a perpetual disappointment. Grant we got for a sixth round pick, and he played like an all pro. Comparisons to Jackson--or Wynn or Morency, etc.? Did we see even a fraction of the burst--the rare combination of speed and power from those guys we saw from Grant? No way.

[bobblehead]

Re: RG

I think the rhett analogy is right on, he tried to hold his team hostage, didn't get a new deal!!!

edit: I found this from a buccanear website and it sums up eric rhett well
==================================================

Probably the defining moment of Rhett’s career, however, was when he chose to hold out for the first seven games of 1996 in search of a reworked contract.

================================================== ==

This is basically what I'm saying...the guy thought he was god's gift, got tough with no leverage and never had 1,000 yards again. Again, I hope RG gets a deal fair to him AND the packers, but if we move on he might become eric rhett the second.

The situation with Rhett is completely different. He was drafted in the second round, 34th player taken according to the story. Presumably he got a signing bonus and/or other bonuses, a salary more than the minimum,etc; and he was still under contract and held out.

Grant is not under contract, and is just negotiating what contract he is willing to sign with the Packers, just like Rhett did before his rookie season; just like every other drafted player has. Grant has never had the opportunity to negotiate, he has had to take what was offered. This is his first opportunity to get more than the absolute minimum contract required.

Who knows what Grant would settle for. Maybe he would like a nice 3 year contract, with a modest bonus and escalator clauses for performance. Maybe he is just trying to say to the Packers, "I have as much potential over the next three seasons as Brandon Jackson. Pay me what you are paying him."

He doesn't really have the opportunity to get more than the minimum, he lost that opportunity when he couldn't put together a good enough college career to be drafted. Grant is effectively under contract, the year 3 minimum tender contract of an undrafted FA. And finally I'm sure he would like a nice 3 year contract with a modest bonus ect, since he isn't a FA for 3 seasons that would work out nice for him, packers pay now when they don't have to and he still hits FA on queue. Again, he has to GIVE something as well, like 2 years worth of his FA time.

In regards to him not being like rhett....yes he is in this way. Young guy who has done very little (rhett did more) who can't afford to throw away the starters job and piss off the franchise cuz they might just move on without you and you never will get your payday and you will find out you really weren't that great (rhett never got 1000 with baltimore).

Now that being said I believe RG is the real deal, but again, he has to put in another 10 games or so THIS season before he starts asking for things, or else we might just move on and his career will basically be cut WAY short since he can't go anywhere else yet.

[RashanGary]

Patler,

I don't remember one player EVER trying to negotiate after 1 accrued NFL season. I understand that it doesn't seem fair that other players were drafted and he wasn't. It doesn't seem fair that he lost a year to a night club incident, but that is where he is at. Anything the Packers do to help Grant is completely out of the ordinary and done very much in good will (not out of any power or right to negotiate that Grant has). Show me one undrafted player that did this after one accrued season. I don't think it's ever happeend.

Atari Bigby should be doing the same.

[vince]

Some of you guys are looking at this all wrong.

Who would you rather pay big money to? Adrian Peterson after one injury curtailed season, or Emmitt Smith after 7 or 8 or whatever it was when Dallas rewarded him with his big contract?

I hope nobody fails to have the good sense to say Peterson.

Experience means nothing and lack of mileage means everything when you are talking about running backs. The ideal would be signing Grant for about 5-7 years right now for something like $4-6 million a season. We would have him through his prime years, and after that contract, we do like Ahman Green, bid him a fond farewell and good luck finding somebody to waste money on his declining years.

The ONLY justification for not doing that is if somebody does NOT believe that Grant is a unique super high quality runner. I certainly believe he is every bit of that.

Comparisons to Bubba? Come on! Bubba was a first round pick who was a perpetual disappointment. Grant we got for a sixth round pick, and he played like an all pro. Comparisons to Jackson--or Wynn or Morency, etc.? Did we see even a fraction of the burst--the rare combination of speed and power from those guys we saw from Grant? No way.

I'm with Tex on this, although I see the more ideal situation being an incentive-laden 4-5 year deal worth $15-20 mil. I think Grant would take that, and it puts him under contract until he's basically 30, when he will have worked through his peak production years for a running back.