"Idiot Kicker" returns to pro football

[Zool]

Racism is a person or group of people discriminating against another person or group of people based on race. There is no reverse unless you assume racism is white to black specifically.

Reverse racism is racism against the race that holds the most power. Doesn't matter what race holds that power and it varies in different parts of the world.

Exactly. And RR is usually hidden behind the guise of 'affirmative action'.

When I was living in Nepean, a primarily white commuter suburb of Ottawa, they looking for police officers. They got a lot of applicants, pretty much all white males - no surprise, there was a bit of an asian population there, but that was about it.

They had to re-advertise outside of the area, and essentially accept any minority who applied because of the size of the city, the law dictated they had to have so many visible minorities on the force. The paper printed a huge headline titled 'White Males Need Not Apply'.

Sorry, but that ain't reverse..and the word is discrimination..not racism.

In order to prove your point you would have to show that they deliberately hired less qualified minorities than white applicants...to the exclusion of any white candidates, even if the latter had seniority or were better qualified by reason of education, expertise, or temperament.

Not hiring white males because you want a diversified staff isn't reverse discrimination.

Exactly. Its either racism or it isnt. Its either discrimination or it isnt. Its doesnt matter who's on which side. If a black guy says something derrogatory about a white guy based on the amount of pigmentation of the skin, thats racism. Referring to reverse racism means that the white people are the only ones who can be racist. Everyone else is a reverse racist.

Thats discriminating against whites. Fuck it, I'm starting a straight white male parade. We need a pride month. I'm going with September.

September is straight white male month. Spread the word.

[neil38133]

I can't believe we're arguing about what label to put on it when people treat each other badly or unfairly. How about just not doing it?

[the_idle_threat]

This Neil guy is onto something. Is he a pragmatist, or a reverse pragmatist?

[woodbuck27]

Michael John "Mike" Vanderjagt (born March 24, 1970 in Oakville, Ontario), played in both the Canadian and National Football Leagues.

** He was once the most accurate field goal kicker in NFL history (229 of 265, 86.4% as of November 20, 2006).

On May 31, 2008, Vanderjagt went back to the CFL and signed on with the Toronto Argonauts as their kicker.

woodbuck27: ** mmmmm.

Like most canucks, doesn't know when to shut his mouth. Heard he also was badmouthing TT.

Nothing like that reverse racism.

Canadian are violent (cut to scene of hockey fight) /Canadian Bacon

I assume you're being facetious, or have you actually seen something saying he was dissing the turtle?

I think Ty was alluding to another Canuck's history of TT bashing.

** ``Years ago if you were to say `you had nine great years in the NFL and you're the most accurate kicker,' I would take that in a heartbeat,'' said Vanderjagt. ``Certainly I feel like I can kick in the NFL, but I am in no means using Toronto as a stepping stone there.

``From an NFL standpoint, sure, I wish I was there. But from a life standpoint, I feel this is the place I should be.''

** read that ''just that'' please.

How could any fair and normally intelligent person leap fr. **, to anything to do with Ted Thompson? Then associate the opinion of P. Manning and Mike Vanderjagt ''as an idiot '' and further. Lump all Canucks in ''as loud mouthed idiots''.

Such a person may certainly be wide open, to being called out as prejudiced. Therefore, simply ignorant and excused or not. Just an opionion based in observation of this thread.

Criticism has little to do with anything of nationality, race,color or creed but more to do with observation and follow-up, for '' the better good ''.

When P. Manning deemed Mike Vanderjagt ''an idiot '', PM demonstrated immaturity in terms of being brash / harsh. Furthermore he used his position on ''the Colts'' to unjustly criticise or undermine '' just, the most accurate kicker '' in NFL history to that time.

It just happens that Mike Vanderjagt is Canadian and none of the above should be dragged in or associated with human rights issues or skills.

woodbuck27

[Patler]

Racism is discrimination based on race, just as sexism is discrimination based on sex.

Discrimination, generally, is simply distinguishing based on a given characteristic or quality. In selecting a starting QB, the head coach discriminates based on various QB qualities (leadership, knowledge, physical abilities, etc.). Sellers of high end goods advertise their products to be for "the discriminating buyer" It is an evaluation process. It is neither inherently bad, nor inherently good. It can be either, or neither.

Discrimination in the social/legal setting to which most of you are referring has come to mean the prejudicial treatment AGAINST a group based on the distinguishing characteristic, such as race, gender, religion, etc. which is irrelevant to the decision being made. For example, a person is not hired because of race or sex, even though qualified for the job.

Reverse discrimination has come to mean the prejudicial treatment FOR a group based on the distinguishing characteristic, such as race, sex, religion, etc. which is irrelevant to the decision being made. For example, a person is hired because of race, even though race is not a factor in the performance of the job.

Since discrimination in the social/legal setting has generally been against minorities, reverse discrimination has also come to mean the perceived prejudicial treatment against majority members as well as the prejudicial treatment in favor of minorities.

Since racism is simply a type of discrimination, in the social/legal setting it has come to mean the prejudicial treatment AGAINST individuals because of race. Reverse racism in the social/legal setting has come to mean the prejudicial treatment FOR individuals because of race. Since racism has generally been applied against minority races by majority races, reverse racism has also come to mean the perceived prejudicial treatment against individuals of the majority race.

And, yes, "reverse racism" is a term used in many articles about discrimination based on race, just as "reverse discrimination" is used for the broader discussions not limited to race.

[Zool]

I think I'll use White Power as my slogan.

[woodbuck27]

Racism is discrimination based on race, just as sexism is discrimination based on sex.

Discrimination, generally, is simply distinguishing based on a given characteristic or quality. In selecting a starting QB, the head coach discriminates based on various QB qualities (leadership, knowledge, physical abilities, etc.). Sellers of high end goods advertise their products to be for "the discriminating buyer" It is an evaluation process. It is neither inherently bad, nor inherently good. It can be either, or neither.

Discrimination in the social/legal setting to which most of you are referring has come to mean the prejudicial treatment AGAINST a group based on the distinguishing characteristic, such as race, gender, religion, etc. which is irrelevant to the decision being made. For example, a person is not hired because of race or sex, even though qualified for the job.

Reverse discrimination has come to mean the prejudicial treatment FOR a group based on the distinguishing characteristic, such as race, sex, religion, etc. which is irrelevant to the decision being made. For example, a person is hired because of race, even though race is not a factor in the performance of the job.

Since discrimination in the social/legal setting has generally been against minorities, reverse discrimination has also come to mean the perceived prejudicial treatment against majority members as well as the prejudicial treatment in favor of minorities.

Since racism is simply a type of discrimination, in the social/legal setting it has come to mean the prejudicial treatment AGAINST individuals because of race. Reverse racism in the social/legal setting has come to mean the prejudicial treatment FOR individuals because of race. Since racism has generally been applied against minority races by majority races, reverse racism has also come to mean the perceived prejudicial treatment against individuals of the majority race.

And, yes, "reverse racism" is a term used in many articles about discrimination based on race, just as "reverse discrimination" is used for the broader discussions not limited to race.

Educate them Patler.

[Patler]

Racism is (redacted for the sake of brevity!)

Educate them Patler.

I try,......and I try; ......but its a never-ending battle!

[the_idle_threat]

Racism is (redacted for the sake of brevity!)

Educate them Patler.

I try,......and I try; ......but its a never-ending battle!

You're not the only one fighting the good fight, Patler.

http://www.straightdope.com/

For the answers to all the world's important questions, see http://www.straightdope.com/columns/

[Patler]

You're not the only one fighting the good fight, Patler.

http://www.straightdope.com/

For the answers to all the world's important questions, see http://www.straightdope.com/columns/

One can easily become hooked on reading those types of sites. Some are truly informative, the others truly funny!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Michael John "Mike" Vanderjagt (born March 24, 1970 in Oakville, Ontario), played in both the Canadian and National Football Leagues.

** He was once the most accurate field goal kicker in NFL history (229 of 265, 86.4% as of November 20, 2006).

On May 31, 2008, Vanderjagt went back to the CFL and signed on with the Toronto Argonauts as their kicker.

woodbuck27: ** mmmmm.

Like most canucks, doesn't know when to shut his mouth. Heard he also was badmouthing TT.

Nothing like that reverse racism.

Canadian are violent (cut to scene of hockey fight) /Canadian Bacon

I assume you're being facetious, or have you actually seen something saying he was dissing the turtle?

I think Ty was alluding to another Canuck's history of TT bashing.

** ``Years ago if you were to say `you had nine great years in the NFL and you're the most accurate kicker,' I would take that in a heartbeat,'' said Vanderjagt. ``Certainly I feel like I can kick in the NFL, but I am in no means using Toronto as a stepping stone there.

``From an NFL standpoint, sure, I wish I was there. But from a life standpoint, I feel this is the place I should be.''

** read that ''just that'' please.

How could any fair and normally intelligent person leap fr. **, to anything to do with Ted Thompson? Then associate the opinion of P. Manning and Mike Vanderjagt ''as an idiot '' and further. Lump all Canucks in ''as loud mouthed idiots''.

Such a person may certainly be wide open, to being called out as prejudiced. Therefore, simply ignorant and excused or not. Just an opionion based in observation of this thread.

Criticism has little to do with anything of nationality, race,color or creed but more to do with observation and follow-up, for '' the better good ''.

When P. Manning deemed Mike Vanderjagt ''an idiot '', PM demonstrated immaturity in terms of being brash / harsh. Furthermore he used his position on ''the Colts'' to unjustly criticise or undermine '' just, the most accurate kicker '' in NFL history to that time.

It just happens that Mike Vanderjagt is Canadian and none of the above should be dragged in or associated with human rights issues or skills.

woodbuck27

Your post just confirms that canadians are loudmouthed idiots.

[Guiness]

Reverse racism is racism against the race that holds the most power. Doesn't matter what race holds that power and it varies in different parts of the world.

Exactly. And RR is usually hidden behind the guise of 'affirmative action'.

When I was living in Nepean, a primarily white commuter suburb of Ottawa, they looking for police officers. They got a lot of applicants, pretty much all white males - no surprise, there was a bit of an asian population there, but that was about it.

They had to re-advertise outside of the area, and essentially accept any minority who applied because of the size of the city, the law dictated they had to have so many visible minorities on the force. The paper printed a huge headline titled 'White Males Need Not Apply'.

Sorry, but that ain't reverse..and the word is discrimination..not racism.

In order to prove your point you would have to show that they deliberately hired less qualified minorities than white applicants...to the exclusion of any white candidates, even if the latter had seniority or were better qualified by reason of education, expertise, or temperament.

Not hiring white males because you want a diversified staff isn't reverse discrimination.

Well, they did exactly what you said - they deliberately hired less qualified minorities rather than white applicants who had better credentials, more seniority etc. You're right, I didn't 'prove' it, I just related the situation.

Re: was it discrimination or racism? Well, it was discrimination based on race/skin colour. I consider that racism.

As far as whether it was reverse or not, that term is certainly not well defined. Where I'm from, it's come to mean what MJZ said...racism practiced against the group that is most often blamed for practicing it. Maybe it means something different where you are - certainly Patler's well stated definition is different than mine - so maybe what I'm describing is just plain old racism, i.e. excluding one based on a racial characteristic, even when it has no bearing on the performance of the job.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Reverse racism is racism against the race that holds the most power. Doesn't matter what race holds that power and it varies in different parts of the world.

Exactly. And RR is usually hidden behind the guise of 'affirmative action'.

When I was living in Nepean, a primarily white commuter suburb of Ottawa, they looking for police officers. They got a lot of applicants, pretty much all white males - no surprise, there was a bit of an asian population there, but that was about it.

They had to re-advertise outside of the area, and essentially accept any minority who applied because of the size of the city, the law dictated they had to have so many visible minorities on the force. The paper printed a huge headline titled 'White Males Need Not Apply'.

Sorry, but that ain't reverse..and the word is discrimination..not racism.

In order to prove your point you would have to show that they deliberately hired less qualified minorities than white applicants...to the exclusion of any white candidates, even if the latter had seniority or were better qualified by reason of education, expertise, or temperament.

Not hiring white males because you want a diversified staff isn't reverse discrimination.

Well, they did exactly what you said - they deliberately hired less qualified minorities rather than white applicants who had better credentials, more seniority etc. You're right, I didn't 'prove' it, I just related the situation.

Re: was it discrimination or racism? Well, it was discrimination based on race/skin colour. I consider that racism.

As far as whether it was reverse or not, that term is certainly not well defined. Where I'm from, it's come to mean what MJZ said...racism practiced against the group that is most often blamed for practicing it. Maybe it means something different where you are - certainly Patler's well stated definition is different than mine - so maybe what I'm describing is just plain old racism, i.e. excluding one based on a racial characteristic, even when it has no bearing on the performance of the job.

Not that i don't trust you, but until you post that they found unqualified candidates..well, it is just the usual rhetoric.

[Guiness]

Not that i don't trust you, but until you post that they found unqualified candidates..well, it is just the usual rhetoric.

Fair enough - with these types of arguments, so much is heresay. The situation I was talking about was around 2000...so 8 yrs ago. Tough to drag anything up.

Anyways...we bitch and main here...but I work overseas, and have heard some stories. Right now, South Africa is just a flat out mess, but before the stuff that's going on now, over the past couple of years I've talked to a fair few young white South Africans who have had to leave their country because they can't get work there. Companies are told they have to hire blacks or coloureds.

Again, I know, unsupported claims...

[Tarlam!]

Companies are told they have to hire blacks or coloureds.

Again, I know, unsupported claims...

Not this time Guin. I can support this claim as I have been to South Africa. Indeed, upon taking power, the first non Apartheid government made laws that called for equality, but in practice favoured the "previously discriminated against". This is a commonday term.

In essence, all government jobs are out of reach for white males.