This might cheer some of us up a little bit

[oregonpackfan]

This always makes me feel better:

[img]http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/abomb8604/Rachel_Watson.jp
g[/img]

She would look so much more attractive in a green and gold outfit!

[Patler]

But that's the whole reason why I just don't understand why the Packers want to push Favre out the door.

I think fans all wonder that. It's not something I intend to argue about, because I don't have any personal knowledge about it, but from what I can piece together it stems from the following:

1. There is an ongoing story that some on the coaching staff thought he completely failed to show leadership in the Giants game. A trip to the Super Bowl was on the line, and some felt Favre no longer had the passion to win that game at all costs. Some thought he was simply going through the motions in the second half, waiting for the game to get over. I have read and heard that some were lobbying for TT to encourage Favre to retire because of it.

2. Favre has had a lot of poor playoff performances, and some have no confidence that in a big playoff game he won't succumb to his playground tendencies and make critical errors that are hard to overcome. They aren't confident that he will string 3 or 4 games together without a bad one in a playoff run.

3. He has lost more off his "fastball" than has been let on, and since he has always been one to try to zip passes into tight coverage, he will have problems. They were able to control him last year, so he threw fewer high risk passes, but Favre was not happy doing it, and they were not confident they could control him again.

4. I heard from what I believe was a credible source that MM was absolutely fed up with Favre after his flip-flopping in late March/April; and he refused to waste more time on dealing with Favre. That's why he sent Campen down to talk to Favre.

5. They really do have the utmost confidence in Rodgers, and while he may not make the great plays Favre has in the past, he will make very few dumb mistakes. He has bought in completely to what MM wants to do in the passing game, and Favre really didn't.


Again, these are not my views, just some things I have pieced together over the last few weeks that may indicate why the Packers are doing what they are. If you read between the lines, I think it might have been as much or more that the coaching staff thought the Favre days should end than that TT did. TT is taking the heat, but the coaches were ready to go with Rodgers over Favre.

[Chevelle2]

Re: This might cheer some of us up a little bit

I like how Collinsworth opens by saying "the Packers arent going to win much with Rodgers at QB" then at the end "looks like the Packers have a legitimate shot at winning in the playoffs with Rodgers".

I remember Boomer Esiason in the DEN/GB preseason game in Madison in 99 saying "You know....Donald Driver...(laugh) hes not gonna make this team, but you still have to make that catch"

[MOBB DEEP]

I agree. You have to like all the skill players on the offense. It's a tremendously deep group, at WR, RB, and even TE. Possible weak links at guard and danger with aging tackles, but WOW, Rodgers may only need to be reasonably good to manage what should be an explosive offense.

But that's the whole reason why I just don't understand why the Packers want to push Favre out the door.

That is really what is puzzling to me. I understand moving on with Rodgers...it has to happen at some point. Why you would do it when your team has shown consistent improvement the previous two years and were on the doorstep of the Super Bowl is what puzzles me.

It puzzles me more why Favre would consider retiring with the offense in place. The team moved on because 1) they thought he really retired and 2) he jerked them around waffling over coming back.

its all being ruined by pride.....TT got mad b/c of the waffling and Lord got mad b/c his but wasnt kissed yet again

i was sick when i realized brett was walkn away from all that talent/opportunity that fool sherman didnt afford him and even sicker when tt, et. al didnt welcome him back with open arms b/c of said oppotunity.

brett PROB shoulda come back with hat in hand apologizn for the waffln. but since tt is spose to be smart and understand the BIG PICTURE, he shoulda realized that that would be hard for the modern ego maniacal athlete and just given him another chance for the sake of Packer nation (FORGET PERSONAL AGENDAS TT)

[texaspackerbacker]

It puzzles me more why Favre would consider retiring with the offense in place. The team moved on because 1) they thought he really retired and 2) he jerked them around waffling over coming back.

I agree with that as well...although until you've gone through 250 consecutive NFL starts, I'm not sure you can adequately assess how easy a decision that is.

If you're arguing that Favre would have a lot of ambivalence about retiring, because he had played so long (and was playing so well), I couldn't agree more. All the more reason, I should think, to err on the side of coming back.

It was an irrational decision to retire brought on by the fact that the guy ain't real bright plus the fact that media assholes messed with his mind with all their idiotic and incessant questioning.

Then, it was an almost equally irrational decision on his part to un-retire--brought on by the same things.

He know is being bombarded with pressure from a bunch of directions. I doubt Favre really feels really strongly one way or the other. Since Thompson's position and pressure seems to be the strongest, I think he will just fade back into retirement.

[Spaulding]

Thanks Patler for the insight. Most of that is news to me but seems to reaffirm my feeling that it's not really TT that's the barrier but that it's McCarthy (or in this case most of the staff) that wants to move forward with Rodgers.

I also never have gotten why all the posters believe TT's got an ego. Here's a former player that each year had to scrap for a roster spot (what ego is there in that), doesn't seek the lime light (again suggests it's not an ego thing) and IMO is just steadfast in how he's learned/beleived a GM should do things.

He decides on a value for a player (whether this is a democracy within the organization or not I'm not sure but from what I gather he does solicit the input of others) and sticks to it. He doesn't overbid and is overall quite conservative in his approach.

In summary the consumate poker player and a fine GM in my eyes. The one knock is that's not a charismatic or polished public speaker. Who the hell cares.

I think we're in good hands between TT and M3. Then again this will all blow up if Rodgers goes down with an injury early in the season.

[BallHawk]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh4ITYHc4&feature=related

Some preseason footage here also.

YouTube took it down.

[mraynrand]

1. There is an ongoing story that some on the coaching staff thought he completely failed to show leadership in the Giants game. A trip to the Super Bowl was on the line, and some felt Favre no longer had the passion to win that game at all costs. Some thought he was simply going through the motions in the second half, waiting for the game to get over. I have read and heard that some were lobbying for TT to encourage Favre to retire because of it.

I don't want to argue this point with you, because I got a sense of this too. I thought Favre could have fired up the troops, and could have played far better down the stretch. But where does this come from, on the team side? Can you tell me who are the 'Some' in your post (other than McCarthy and TT?). Position coach? Players? If you have examples or quotes available without too much effort, I'd like to read them.


I was so angry about the loss, I didn't watch the Superbowl until it was replayed yesterday on NFLN. The Giants were playing some great defense at the end of last year. You have to realize that, had the Giants not won, NE would have easily been considered by many to be the greatest team ever in the history of the NFL. That team was beaten by the Giants, the same Giants team that barely beat the Packers....

[BallHawk]

Bryant Gumbel's commentary is always worse than you think it's going to be. You think "Ah, he can't be that bad....it's just a false perception put out by fans."

And then you listen to him and immediately reach for the mute button.

EDIT: Originally put Greg.

[boiga]

But that's the whole reason why I just don't understand why the Packers want to push Favre out the door.

I think fans all wonder that. It's not something I intend to argue about, because I don't have any personal knowledge about it, but from what I can piece together it stems from the following:

1. There is an ongoing story that some on the coaching staff thought he completely failed to show leadership in the Giants game. A trip to the Super Bowl was on the line, and some felt Favre no longer had the passion to win that game at all costs. Some thought he was simply going through the motions in the second half, waiting for the game to get over. I have read and heard that some were lobbying for TT to encourage Favre to retire because of it.

2. Favre has had a lot of poor playoff performances, and some have no confidence that in a big playoff game he won't succumb to his playground tendencies and make critical errors that are hard to overcome. They aren't confident that he will string 3 or 4 games together without a bad one in a playoff run.

3. He has lost more off his "fastball" than has been let on, and since he has always been one to try to zip passes into tight coverage, he will have problems. They were able to control him last year, so he threw fewer high risk passes, but Favre was not happy doing it, and they were not confident they could control him again.

4. I heard from what I believe was a credible source that MM was absolutely fed up with Favre after his flip-flopping in late March/April; and he refused to waste more time on dealing with Favre. That's why he sent Campen down to talk to Favre.

5. They really do have the utmost confidence in Rodgers, and while he may not make the great plays Favre has in the past, he will make very few dumb mistakes. He has bought in completely to what MM wants to do in the passing game, and Favre really didn't.


Again, these are not my views, just some things I have pieced together over the last few weeks that may indicate why the Packers are doing what they are. If you read between the lines, I think it might have been as much or more that the coaching staff thought the Favre days should end than that TT did. TT is taking the heat, but the coaches were ready to go with Rodgers over Favre.

Good post Patler.

One other thing I would like to add is that the coaches are well aware that Brett's talent level is on the decline while Rodgers has the learning curve working for him, and thus should improve greatly over the course of this season and the next.

So, the question to the coaching staff may not be who is the better QB during the month of july, but who they expect to be the better QB this coming December. Looked at from that angle, Rodgers can be considered a safer bet if you have eyes on the post season.

[mraynrand]

I also never have gotten why all the posters believe TT's got an ego.

TT has a way of doing things and a leadership style that he knows works. Great leaders all have confidence in the style and substance of their methodology - and this typically inspires confidence in their followers and organization. From the distance of a fan, it can look like an 'ego.' If he really has a fat head, the people who will know will be the folks who have to work with him, and they will grumble. I suspect that if he had an EGO, we'd know about it. I give as an example what happened with Jones, and how Harlan had to pitch him and restart with Murphy.

[channtheman]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh4ITYHc4&feature=related

Some preseason footage here also.

YouTube took it down.

I watched it last night and I don't know what would have been in the video to warrant it being taken down. Youtube seems a lot more like youcanpostwhatwewantyoutoposttube.com

[MOBB DEEP]

It puzzles me more why Favre would consider retiring with the offense in place. The team moved on because 1) they thought he really retired and 2) he jerked them around waffling over coming back.

I agree with that as well...although until you've gone through 250 consecutive NFL starts, I'm not sure you can adequately assess how easy a decision that is.

If you're arguing that Favre would have a lot of ambivalence about retiring, because he had played so long (and was playing so well), I couldn't agree more. All the more reason, I should think, to err on the side of coming back.

It was an irrational decision to retire brought on by the fact that the guy ain't real bright plus the fact that media assholes messed with his mind with all their idiotic and incessant questioning.

Then, it was an almost equally irrational decision on his part to un-retire--brought on by the same things.

He know is being bombarded with pressure from a bunch of directions. I doubt Favre really feels really strongly one way or the other. Since Thompson's position and pressure seems to be the strongest, I think he will just fade back into retirement.

texan, i would like some clarity here. y are the media guys a-holes? is there 1 in particular u feel that way about or do they exist in a vacuum. the questioning is just their job and without them where would we be?

his mind aint that weak that the media has that much influence i would thnk after nearly two decades

i DEF aggree though that he prob doesnt feel that strongly either way; thus the elusiveness for so long and ease with which he's stayed out of camp/not sent in that frickn letter that has been "signed" LOL

[Patler]

Thanks Patler for the insight. Most of that is news to me but seems to reaffirm my feeling that it's not really TT that's the barrier but that it's McCarthy (or in this case most of the staff) that wants to move forward with Rodgers.

I also never have gotten why all the posters believe TT's got an ego. Here's a former player that each year had to scrap for a roster spot (what ego is there in that), doesn't seek the lime light (again suggests it's not an ego thing) and IMO is just steadfast in how he's learned/beleived a GM should do things.

I'm not sure I have any insight to offer, but I have tried to analyze this situation by asking why it is happening. Then I tend to believe the information that is consistent with or supports what we know is happening.

Favre seemingly had a great year in 2007.
MM & TT are paid to be successful.
Getting to the Super Bowl is always the objective.
When you are close, you push harder, not step back.
It is illogical that both would cut off their nose to spite their face.
Neither has shown himself to be egotistical, in spite of what some fans think about TT.
If the coaches strongly wanted Favre, we would hear about it.
If the coaches strongly wanted Favre, I doubt TT would deny them when Favre is available.

The reason to shun Favre because they spent all off season tailoring the offense to Rodgers has some small validity, but not much. It is simple tweaking. They had two months to correct it before the season started.

Rodgers feelings are meaningless to MM and TT. It's a cut throat business, they can't worry about hurting a player's feelings.

Worrying about Rodgers re-signing in two years just is not a concern of theirs right now, nor should it be. A lot can happen in two years to help or hurt his re-signing.

The only thing that makes sense is that the coaches and TT have reached the conclusion that Favre is no longer able to get them a Super Bowl win, so they are willing to try another QB. My earlier list is the information I have heard and read that supports that conclusion.

[bobblehead]

2. Favre has had a lot of poor playoff performances, and some have no confidence that in a big playoff game he won't succumb to his playground tendencies and make critical errors that are hard to overcome. They aren't confident that he will string 3 or 4 games together without a bad one in a playoff run.


5. They really do have the utmost confidence in Rodgers, and while he may not make the great plays Favre has in the past, he will make very few dumb mistakes. He has bought in completely to what MM wants to do in the passing game, and Favre really didn't.
.

these are the big ones in my opinion patler. I can't begin to point out how often favre would throw a bonehead pick in a tight game and I always made a point to watch MM as favre wouild walk by him. He is like holmgren in that he truly abhors turnovers. He realizes rodgers won't win a game like the OT in denver the way favre did, but he won't throw the pick right before the half against KC or put it in Urlachers breadbasket inside our own 10 either. He views it as a wash and figures rodgers listens and gives less headaches for what will be a net push in overall performance.