A QUESTION TO SOLICIT HONEST AND STRAIGHT FOWARD ANSWERS...

[Fritz]

What they said.

[DonHutson]

Favre obviously has no respect for Thompson. His pining for Steve Mariucci suggests he doesn't have enough respect for McCarthy either, or else he just prefers to be babied rather than be held accountable. Favre whined about his inexperienced WR's last season and after they stepped up big time, he's still pining for Randy Moss. Favre expected to walk in the door and be the starter, whenever and under whatever conditions it pleased him to do so. Favre has threatened, almost gleefully, to turn training camp into a circus to get his way which doesn't say a lot for his focus on team chemistry.

Could it be so simple that Thompson and McCarthy would like the leader of the team to act like he's part of the team?

Could it be as easy as they think Rodgers talent and chemistry trumps Favre's superior talent and me first attitude?

Could it be that they want to continue building a consistent winner without the team "leader" bitching and complaining that they aren't going all in for one Favre Super Bowl run (even though their approach gave Favre his Super Bowl run anyway)?

This has nothing to do with Rodgers potentially leaving, or Rodgers being Ted's pet project, and everything to do with Favre flushing his leadership credentials down the toilet and the professional assessment on Ted and Mike's part that Rodgers will be pretty damn good.

A couple of interesting quotes from the new Packer yearbook (written pre-Favre un-re-un-retiring):

"You learn the importance of having everybody on the same page, the importance of everbody looking out for the best interests of the team as a whole as opposed to individuals."
- Mark Murphy, Packer CEO

"I think the people who truly get football and understand the true team concept and what makes a successful team, those are the people who can definitely check their egos at the door. Both Ted and Mike are very comfortable in their own skin, so when it comes to their professional life, they don't need to be patted on the back or consistently told they're doing a great job. They both have a natural feel for doing what is right."
- John Schneider, Dir. of Football Operations

I think there is something in Brett's prima donna sense of entitlement that is particularly grating to Thompson, McCarthy, and Murphy. They simply don't want it on their team anymore. My belief is that they feel the difference in talent between Favre and Rodgers is no longer great enough to sacrifice team chemistry and their plans on how the team should be built and how it should operate.

[bobblehead]

thanks don, I didn't feel like typing that much, but you summed it up about as well as it can be summed up.

[bobblehead]

If he makes up with TT and we work out a really nice trade to minnesota and he lines up under center for the vikes I can see no negative whatsoever.....thats what you meant right?

ok, so u're sayn that if he came back with hat in hand MAD apologetic asking for forgiveness TT should STILL say go to hades (err Minn)???

If he did everything you said, AND agreed to be the backup I would welcome him back. AND as long as he stayed true to that and was not a distraction I would be happy he was on my team. More than likely at some point this season Arod will miss a game with injury and I would be happy to have favre around to fill in. NOT as the starter for all the reasons Don cited above.

[MOBB DEEP]

I think the crux of this problem is the fact that Brett isn't 100% committed to football. If he REALLY wanted to play he would've told Murphy no and asked Goodell to reinstate him so he can come to GB and force TT's hand. The fact that he is considering taking The Offer tells me he isn't sure what he wants to do and THAT is why TT and company have moved forward. It didn't help his cause when he went on TV and blasted the organization either.

didnt he BLAST tt?? tt aint my cousin so i dont feel sorry for him. some posters act like favre has acutally offended THEM

[MOBB DEEP]

Re: A QUESTION TO SOLICIT HONEST AND STRAIGHT FOWARD ANSWERS

as a FAN what REAL negative would there be if #4 and TT/MM kissed and made up and favre is under center come MNF???

The real risk here is that Favre picks this year for his skills to decline dramatically while the insult from the demotion would cause Rodgers to seek a trade. To have Favre start again would give us the minor short term benefit of the upgrade from Rodgers to Favre, while potentially risking the long term viability of the entire team should we be left without a quarterback next season.

Also, the transition to a post Favre Packers had to occur sometime. This season, the rest of the team is high enough caliber that we don't need to depend on the Favre of old pulling miracles out of his ass to win us games. We learned in 2005 that Favre can't support the team without any help. Now we have a team that can support the QB until he learns the ropes. That opportunity may not be here next year. We could lose Al and Chuck, our defense could be in shambles, and throwing in an inexperienced QB would be sacrificing him to the wolves.

Rodgers has the supporting cast this year to take us deep in the playoffs. That means that we don't NEED Favre this year like we did the last ten. They planned for a successful transition and to waste that planning might make it another 10 years or more before we could rebuild this team again.

Also, it would set the following bad precedents:
1. A star player can cow management by making a fuss.
2. A player's opinion will matter more than the coaches.
3. A player can get away with bad mouthing his organization without repercussions.
4. Working hard in the OTA's is a waste of effort if you have enough pull.
5. The player's desire matters more than the needs of the team.

GREAT point about the way the team is currently constructed willl make arods transition a good 1. i believe in him for some reason

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

[MOBB DEEP]

Favre obviously has no respect for Thompson. His pining for Steve Mariucci suggests he doesn't have enough respect for McCarthy either, or else he just prefers to be babied rather than be held accountable. Favre whined about his inexperienced WR's last season and after they stepped up big time, he's still pining for Randy Moss. Favre expected to walk in the door and be the starter, whenever and under whatever conditions it pleased him to do so. Favre has threatened, almost gleefully, to turn training camp into a circus to get his way which doesn't say a lot for his focus on team chemistry.

Could it be so simple that Thompson and McCarthy would like the leader of the team to act like he's part of the team?

Could it be as easy as they think Rodgers talent and chemistry trumps Favre's superior talent and me first attitude?

Could it be that they want to continue building a consistent winner without the team "leader" bitching and complaining that they aren't going all in for one Favre Super Bowl run (even though their approach gave Favre his Super Bowl run anyway)?

This has nothing to do with Rodgers potentially leaving, or Rodgers being Ted's pet project, and everything to do with Favre flushing his leadership credentials down the toilet and the professional assessment on Ted and Mike's part that Rodgers will be pretty damn good.

A couple of interesting quotes from the new Packer yearbook (written pre-Favre un-re-un-retiring):

"You learn the importance of having everybody on the same page, the importance of everbody looking out for the best interests of the team as a whole as opposed to individuals."
- Mark Murphy, Packer CEO

"I think the people who truly get football and understand the true team concept and what makes a successful team, those are the people who can definitely check their egos at the door. Both Ted and Mike are very comfortable in their own skin, so when it comes to their professional life, they don't need to be patted on the back or consistently told they're doing a great job. They both have a natural feel for doing what is right."
- John Schneider, Dir. of Football Operations

I think there is something in Brett's prima donna sense of entitlement that is particularly grating to Thompson, McCarthy, and Murphy. They simply don't want it on their team anymore. My belief is that they feel the difference in talent between Favre and Rodgers is no longer great enough to sacrifice team chemistry and their plans on how the team should be built and how it should operate.

good post

[boiga]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.

[MOBB DEEP]

If he makes up with TT and we work out a really nice trade to minnesota and he lines up under center for the vikes I can see no negative whatsoever.....thats what you meant right?

ok, so u're sayn that if he came back with hat in hand MAD apologetic asking for forgiveness TT should STILL say go to hades (err Minn)???

If he did everything you said, AND agreed to be the backup I would welcome him back. AND as long as he stayed true to that and was not a distraction I would be happy he was on my team. More than likely at some point this season Arod will miss a game with injury and I would be happy to have favre around to fill in. NOT as the starter for all the reasons Don cited above.

not to grill you but im curious about your ratiuonale. are u sayn that arod is better than #4 rt now so he should start or b/c favre left arod shoud start? is it to teach #4 a lesson or give team best chance to win?

straght forward question

[MOBB DEEP]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.

how long u been a fan?

i was actually a bears fan during sweetnesses era. tried to play like him...am i banned now?

[packinpatland]

but u dont think #4 desreves another shot with this squad considering shermans nonsense???

I think Favre had his shot last year. Also, while I am grateful for the his play for the last 16 years... I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not "deserve."

He had his time, he played well, but now the management has determined that it is in the best interest of the team to move on. My loyalty is to the Packers, not Brett, so if the Packers benefit by Favre not getting what he deserves... I'm okay with that.

OK then....move on............release him!

[Maxie the Taxi]

What's wrong is your assumption that Favre's skills haven't diminished to the point that he's no longer effective.

Unless you believe that he's immune to the ravages of age, at some point his skills are going to diminish and it could happen suddenly, without warning.

You're probably too young to remember the Milwaukee Braves' all-time great left-hander, Warren Spahn. In 1963 at the age of 42 Spahnnie had one of his best seasons with the Braves. He went 23-7 and went to the All-Star game.

However, the very next year he went 6-13 with an ERA of 5.29. It was miserable to watch and even more miserable to hear loyal Braves fans around you in the stands boo the man you once idolized for more than a decade. You couldn't boo along with them, all you could do was turn your head. Spahnnie didn't hear the boos and he didn't retire.

The next year the Braves traded Spahn -- one of the most beloved Braves ever -- to the Mets where he went 4-12. When the Mets gave up on him, he went to San Francisco and went 3-4.

Watching an unretired Hall of Famer's skills diminish before thousands of fans is a painful experience. Maybe not for the Hall of Famer. But for one fan in particular. Believe me.

If Favre came back and failed...failed miserably like Spahn...costing the Packers their season and maybe their future, would he call a press conference, apologize to the fans and to the Packers? Would he return his $12-million salary saying "it's not the money?" Or would he take the money and run back to Kiln, finally with the peace of mind in knowing that retiring is, at last, the wise thing to do?

The Packers owe Favre nothing. The fans owe Favre nothing. He's made a wonderful living playing the game he loves in a city that loves(ed) him. It's time for all of us to move on. It's been a great run, but it's OVER!!

[oregonpackfan]

Maxie,

I grew up as a boy idolizing Warren Spahn. You make some valid points about the pain of watching a former outstanding player not being able to accept his athletic mortality.

It was truly sad to see a great pitcher like Spahn embarrass himself on the field.

[Gunakor]

Re: A QUESTION TO SOLICIT HONEST AND STRAIGHT FOWARD ANSWERS

the one thing that ive noticed since i started posting on packer forums over 3 years ago is that 99% of posters are pretty much set in their stance on major topics. the favre debacle is one such topic. at this point no one's gonna be swayed to the "other side" by a poster's well thought out, eloquent posts (in reality it's a waste of time if u REALLY think about it people. altho it was quite CRASS a poster back on JSO once said that debating on a forum is akin to participatin in the special olympics; even if u win u're still a retard - honestly it hurt my soul a lil to say that)

my goal/simple question may have already been reached/answered in one way or anothr; but this thread is meant to condense poster's thoughts and feelings on a concrete level.

never mind all the deep analysis because NO ONE here is a part of the inner circle up in title town and have all the info needed to make the critical judgements we tend to make [posters jus speculate, pontificate, imagine, feel, hope, want, KNOW (shadow and texaspackerbacker - lol), and conjecture]

ok, here goes......

as a FAN what REAL negative would there be if #4 and TT/MM kissed and made up and favre is under center come MNF???

honestly; not a bunch of subjectivity and bashing, recalling of #4's bad games or of arods' and TTs respective poise and feelings

again, as a FAN of the pack or fball in general, WHAT REAL NEGATIVE WOULD THER BE IF PEOPLE EMMULATED JESUS AND FORGAVE ONE ANOTHER FOR THE BENEFIT OF PACKER NATION????

go.....

1) It would mean that TT lied to Rodgers. It means he went back on his committment made to his players.

2) It would set bad precedent. The team is bigger than any of it's players, and cannot cave in to thier demands no matter how iconic the player is. Cave into Favre, and pretty soon you have a handful of other players with demands too. This is where I'm at with the Grant deal as well.

3) It would set this team back another year. Unless you truly believe that Favre can get this team to a SB, which I don't. I have a decade of poor performances in January to back me up. Favre is one of the greatest regular season QB's I've ever seen, but he's not the guy that's gonna get it done in January anymore. Again, history supports me on this.

[boiga]

OK then....move on............release him!

Like I said before, I'm not really interested in what Favre may or may not deserve. Releasing him would be against the best interest of the Packers, so it's really a non-option.