What's sup with Cory Bradford?

[Fritz]

What I mean, Bretsky, is that like Gardner, Boerigter, and Ferguson, Bradford is a limited skill guy. Yes, his particular skill is different - he's fast - but he runs routes like my grandmother and has so-so hands. Ferguson's big and physical but not blazing and has lots of questions. Gardner's a flash one minute and a dud the next.

We have lots of guys with one-dimensional skills. That's what I meant.

[woodbuck27]

"Truth be told, in terms of guys I'd value over Bradford on GB, I'd take

1. Driver
2. Jennings (based on potential

and then everything is debateable.

Undecided who I'd take between Gardner and Bradford.

I'd take Bradford over Ferguson, Boerighter, Rodgers and the rest." Bretsky


Bretsky:

Outrside of DD and Jennings Our WR's remind me of litttle more than a selection of Dunkin' Donuts.

It really bugs me that TT didn't make more effort to acquire there.

[Bretsky]

"Truth be told, in terms of guys I'd value over Bradford on GB, I'd take

1. Driver
2. Jennings (based on potential

and then everything is debateable.

Undecided who I'd take between Gardner and Bradford.

I'd take Bradford over Ferguson, Boerighter, Rodgers and the rest." Bretsky


Bretsky:

Outrside of DD and Jennings Our WR's remind me of litttle more than a selection of Dunkin' Donuts.

It really bugs me that TT didn't make more effort to acquire there.

YES, I agree, and TT had the money. It bugs me even more that TT made no effort to acquire a starting OL so we'd only have two positions to fill with unproven wildcards. I know people like to say Wells has experience, but to me he's still unproven and a guy who is probably going to be an average at best starter, and struggle some this year.

[Patler]

Outrside of DD and Jennings Our WR's remind me of litttle more than a selection of Dunkin' Donuts.

It really bugs me that TT didn't make more effort to acquire there.

What do you expect? There are 12 receivers on the roster right now, 5 are rookies including 2nd and 4th round draft picks, 1 is a new UFA (Boerigter) who has time in the league and at least some interesting aspects to his career, and 1 (Gardner) is a former 1st round pick who was re-signed after spending all of a couple weeks in GB last season and has over twice as many career receptions and twice as much yardage as Ferguson. He has brought in 7 new players, 2 that are first day draft picks and two with NFL experience, one as a starter most of the time. Short of signing Owens, how much more attention could he give it when he also had other holes to worry about?

[woodbuck27]

"What do you expect? " shamrockfan

From the tone of my post obviously and I'll reiterate I expected alot more from TT as with the impending loss of Javon Walker and the most probable release of Terrence Murphy we needed alot of help at WR.

Additionally. . .

Antonio Chatman wasn't a player to simply shake off either. That little man gave alot of heart to the team. Obviously, with the signing bonus he got ( about $250 K - his new team 'the Bengals', saw alot in him as a back-up WR and punt returner and maybe we'll see alot worse in 2006. Chatman played well for us last season 'only 3 starts ' with 49 catch's / 549 yards (an 11 yard avg.) and 4 TD's.

I'll go back to what I posted earlier, shamrockfan.

After Donald Driver we have a bunch of . .'Dunkin Donuts' at WR. The only thing that helps OUR passing game is we still have Favre and how comfortable would you be if that was just Rodgers?

Bringing back Rod Gardner may 'in fact' prove to have been a solid move but I would have been alot more excited if we had of gone out and got it done with - that Bad Man, Terrell Owens , as that would certainly have elevated OUR status on "O" with T.O and D.D. as OUR top WR's.

TT didn't do that and so be it, he did do alot that was 'right on', but getting more than he did at WR was something I felt TT had to do.

[mraynrand]

Woodbuck,
I couldn't disagree more. TO is a frickin' cancer. I would have liked to have seen him sit out a year. If not for Jerry Jones, the guy might be ridin' the pine this year. He'll probably be okay for a while then...meltdown.
The guy is a total fucking asshole, with a raging narcissitic personality disorder. He's far beyond the typical NFL prima donnas, like a Mike McKenzie or Javon Walker. Sometimes you have to draw the line and just say that a guy is too extreme for any team. If the guy couldn't get along in Philly, why the hell would we want him? What chance would a first year coach with no credibility have of restraining this buffoon, if Reid couldn't manage?

Go ahead and like Chatman, if you please. Driver was double covered all last year, so there was no one to throw to but Chatman. He ran decent rountes and then found a way to slide into the turf to avoid hits. With virtually no running game after losing Green and Davenport, what was left? No Walker, no Bubba, no Ferguson (effectively), Driver double covered.

Keep your eyes open to see how effective Chatman is this year.

Favre and circumstances resulted in Chatman having decent numbers, but the Packers will find a hell of a lot better among the guys they have lined up right now.

[woodbuck27]

"I couldn't disagree more. TO is a frickin' cancer." mraynrand

Your pschological analysis of T.O. may 'in fact' be right on the money mraynrand. A narcissisistic personalty is not uncommon in OUR society but what alarms me is if that type has . . . no conscience. I don't believe that T.O. is a psychotic.

I do believe that T.O. is awesome as a WR, and a real difference maker in a game , 'a gamebreaker - in fact', and felt that he and Favre would have combined very well. Maybe I based that most on the respect that T.O. expressed on 'the QB tools', that he admired in Brett Favre, mraynrand.

Also, it's been in the press, or at least hinted at , that Favre would have been very happy to see T.O. in Green n' Gold.

I simply shared that same hope. That he would get that next chance in a Packer jersey. I am positive I would have been out voted on that one by a landslide, but I saw the need for that signing as a priority.

I also, well respect all those who have placed permanent judgement on him, as he has acted plain stupid and selfish in the past. He was given another chance in Dallas, and by inferrence on the matter of Bill Parcells not having input on that signing, not all may be rosy there.

It's alluded to that, Parcells will test T.O. soon in TC and maybe often, or pull his strings, to see where he and T.O. really are, and try to short cut any real problems once the season begins.

I simply hoped that we would have that luxery in Green Bay. I felt a contract to T.O., could have had an iron clad clause , whereby TT could can him at little expense to the Packers if he acted up on OUR team.

[mraynrand]

Wbuck,

nice reply. One thing we can agree on is that it would be great to have a guy with TO's certain talent on the roster. Right now the Packers have more question marks than the Riddler.

[Patler]

Philadelphia needed receivers very badly, signed Owens and jettisoned him as soon as they could. As I recall, McNabb wanted Owens, and Philly was the place TO insisted on when he was first "traded" to the Ravens (?). It was supposed to be a match made in heaven, and it barely lasted a year.

You have a new coaching staff and a headcoach with no headcoaching experience. Saddling him with a high maintenance, limelight demanding, head case like Owens would have been very unwise.

[woodbuck27]

"You have a new coaching staff and a headcoach with no headcoaching experience. Saddling him with a high maintenance, limelight demanding, head case like Owens would have been very unwise." shamrockfan

Maybe the relationship that Favre and T.O. would have developed would have put that concern to bed, shamrockfan? Now, we will never know the TRUTH there.

I'll state this ( my position on T.O. ) again.

TT could have contracted T.O. in a fashion, to ensure that he acted out of respect for what was expected of him as a Packer, and his skills and desire to work with Brett Favre would have worked out the rest.

We would have been alot more set at WR with Favre tossing pass's to DD and T.O., then what we presently have as a prospectus now. What T.O. could have added to the overall explosiveness of OUR passing game if TT had of gone out and got him, can hardly be argued. Yet for as it is - is pure speculation now and that's unfortunate from my view.

I very much hoped that T.O. would have been given a chance in Green Bay. I especially feel that was 'a missed opportunity', given the way the Javon Walker issue transpired, as we are arguably weaker at WR then we were this time last year.

Casting judgements on T.O in no manner, detracts from his awesome talents and status as maybe the games BEST WR's.

We needed that WR's talent in Green Bay not in Dallas. TT needed to get that done and I still am trying to determine the extent of his involvement in such?

[Patler]

"You have a new coaching staff and a headcoach with no headcoaching experience. Saddling him with a high maintenance, limelight demanding, head case like Owens would have been very unwise." shamrockfan

Maybe the relationship that Favre and T.O. would have developed would have put that concern to bed, shamrockfan? Now, we will never know the TRUTH there.

I'll state this ( my position on T.O. ) again.

TT could have contracted T.O. in a fashion, to ensure that he acted out of respect for what was expected of him as a Packer, and his skills and desire to work with Brett Favre would have worked out the rest.

We would have been alot more set at WR with Favre tossing pass's to DD and T.O., then what we presently have as a prospectus now. What T.O. could have added to the overall explosiveness of OUR passing game if TT had of gone out and got him, can hardly be argued. Yet for as it is - is pure speculation now and that's unfortunate from my view.

I very much hoped that T.O. would have been given a chance in Green Bay. I especially feel that was 'a missed opportunity', given the way the Javon Walker issue transpired, as we are arguably weaker at WR then we were this time last year.

Casting judgements on T.O in no manner, detracts from his awesome talents and status as maybe the games BEST WR's.

We needed that WR's talent in Green Bay not in Dallas. TT needed to get that done and I still am trying to determine the extent of his involvement in such?

Why should his relationship with Favre have been any better than his relationship with McNabb in Philly? After all, Philly was where Owens DEMANDED to go.

Owens is what he is. He demonstrated it for years in SF and for two seasons in Philly. To expect him to suddenly change, or to think in some way you can force him by contract into good behavior is a little naive, in my opinion. You sound like the proverbial lady who marries a flamboyant, womanizing, drunkard, gambling, wife-beater, who is sure she can "change her man" after they are married. He is what he is.

His talent is high, but Owens will always be a pain in the neck to his head coach and team.

[woodbuck27]

# 81 Terrell Owens Position: WR Height: 6-3 Weight: 226
Born: 12/07/1973 College: Chattanooga NFL Experience: 11


RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
1996 49ers 16 10 35 520 14.9 46 4 7 2 23
1997 49ers 16 15 60 936 15.6 56 8 16 1 48
1998 49ers 16 10 67 1097 16.4 79 14 17 4 52
1999 49ers 14 14 60 754 12.6 36 4 12 0 36
2000 49ers 14 13 97 1451 15.0 69 13 23 5 65
2001 49ers 16 16 93 1412 15.2 60 16 21 6 70
2002 49ers 14 14 100 1300 13.0 76 13 17 5 61
2003 49ers 15 15 80 1102 13.8 75 9 15 4 55
2004 Eagles 14 14 77 1200 15.6 59 14 20 9 51
2005 Eagles 7 7 47 763 16.2 91 6 10 4 32
TOTAL 142 128 716 10535 14.7 91 101 158 40 493

That says - that T.O. had 101 TD's in 128 Games started. It says - that he made 716 reseptions for 10,535 yards (a 14.7 yard avg.), and 158 of those catch's went for 20+ yards and 40 went for 40+ yards.

That tells me that the bottom line is, that as a WR T.O. is outstanding and I again believe, that he and Brett Favre would have combined very well for us.

I don't give a cat's ass about how he behaved in San Fran or Philly, as far as him being available to us on the FA market in this off season. He was there for TT to acquire, and if he didn't try, my stance is that he should have at least made an effort.

That is my stance, and it won't change, shamrockfan.

If T.O. turns it around and excells with 'the Cowboys' who will get the credit ? Bill Parcells or T.O. ?

I'l give that credit to the WR and man that T.O. deserved to be in a Packer jersey. I believe we missed out by not getting him in Green Bay. If he screws up again ,as you seem to propose - is a forgone conclusion, then I'll admit I was wrong about him.

I stand pat on - T.O. and Drew Bledsoe isn't as good for 'the Packers', as it might have been with T.O. and Brett Favre.

[Patler]

I'm not asking you to change your stance. As the saying goes, you have every right to be wrong!

[Patler]

Woodbuck, I think your own list of stats proves Owens is a huge risk. He was SUPERB as a receiver in Philadelphia, yet Philadelphia couldn't seem to get him out of town fast enough. He made life miserable in Philadelphia after he hand-picked it as the place he wanted to go.

He has been an outstanding receiver for the last 6 years, and a headcase the whole time, bringing nothing but controversy to both the 49ers and Eagles. In my opinion, his value as a player is diminished greatly by the controversy that follows him.

Besides, it wouldn't be fair to the local media. The have all they can handle to follow Favre around 24 hours a day and report ad nauseum every facet of his life. They would have to hire additional staff if Owens were on the team as he would require the same level of coverage and scrutiny!

[woodbuck27]

I'm not asking you to change your stance. As the saying goes, you have every right to be wrong!

Well. . .Thank you shamrockfan and today I'm sure that you'll see that I can't.

Really - we are discussing a point of view , that some may deem moot. T.O. is working for the Dallas Cowboys.

I can only imagine all those TD pass's that T.O. may have caught for us.

I am in no way, nor ever will be a Cowboy fan, but in human terms I do wish that T.O. does put it together, and then. . . if he does, I'm simply set up to be envious, that we didn't get his services.

It's a quandry position I find myself in. LOL