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Rating the D-Lineman

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  • #1

    Rating the D-Lineman

    I divide the Packer D-linemen into 4 categories:

    Excellent - Kampman
    Good - Pickens, Jolly
    Mediocre - Jenkins, KGB
    Garbage - everyone else

    I know this looks really harsh, but compare the quality of defensive linemen that the Packers face each and every week. The other guys are able to apply pressure and make plays from end to end, and I don't believe that is because all our O-lineman are sucky.

    Jenkins & KGB certainly have had spurts of greatness in recent years, but if you look at their consistent production, they are just average performers.

    I don't see squat from guys deeper in the depth chart, they look inept to me. Maybe I missed somebody.

    I would be interested how other people would fill these four bins.
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  • #2
    Kinda gotta agree. I think a strong defensive line is mandatory if you're going to win consstently in the NFL.

    TT tried to address this in part with the Harrell pick and signing Pickett. Pickett is working out, Harrell, so far, is the second coming of Jamaal Reynolds.

    I understand him not wanting to break the bank for Corey Williams. That's okay. But it looks like it would've been nice to see another defensive tackle be drafted this year.

    It's an area of concern.
    "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

    KYPack

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    • #3
      Scary.
      Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

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      • #4
        I don't see how you can rank KGB as mediocre. For what the Packers ask him to do, he's undoubtedly in the top 50%, maybe even significantly higher. In fact, I can't think of many who have performed as well on a consistent basis over the last seven years. Let's compare him to active defensive lineman that play RE in 4-3 defenses. Who else would you rather have playing on passing downs? In the NFC I can count them on one hand: Umenyiora, Jason Taylor, Trent Cole, Allen. Another group, including Will Smith, Bertrand Berry, John Abraham, Mark Anderson and probably others I'm forgetting about, are about even in terms of pass rushing. Now if KGB were still being asked to play RE full-time and stop the run, then I would have an easier time accepting your ranking.

        I'm also not ready to put Jolly in the same category as "Pickens" (that's Pickett to you, son). Jolly hasn't even proven he can stay on the field--or off the police blotter--for a full season yet. And regarding the rest of them that you throw in the garbage heap: Thompson and Montgomery might turn out to be something more than mere garbage.

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        • #5
          I think this thread is an indication of why the Packers are flirting with the 2-D-linemen/5 LB formation.
          One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
          John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

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          • #6
            Re: Rating the D-Lineman

            Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
            I divide the Packer D-linemen into 4 categories:

            Excellent - Kampman
            Good - Pickens, Jolly
            Mediocre - Jenkins, KGB
            Garbage - everyone else

            I know this looks really harsh, but compare the quality of defensive linemen that the Packers face each and every week. The other guys are able to apply pressure and make plays from end to end, and I don't believe that is because all our O-lineman are sucky.

            Jenkins & KGB certainly have had spurts of greatness in recent years, but if you look at their consistent production, they are just average performers.

            I don't see squat from guys deeper in the depth chart, they look inept to me. Maybe I missed somebody.

            I would be interested how other people would fill these four bins.
            Pretty much agree. I do think Jenkins can elevate is level of play. If we have 4 guys that good to excellent, we can field a good line. That may be a stretch.

            You can double the garbage rating for Cole. I don't know how that guy keeps his gig. OL's do anything they want with that guy. He has no push whatsoever.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by hoosier
              I don't see how you can rank KGB as mediocre. For what the Packers ask him to do, he's undoubtedly in the top 50%, maybe even significantly higher. In fact, I can't think of many who have performed as well on a consistent basis over the last seven years
              How effective was he last year, and what is a reasonable projection for this season given his knee looks chronically damaged?

              "Mediocre" means that half the DE's in the league who get significant playing time are better, half are worse. I don't see KGB getting near the QB very often, and he doesn't play the run well (they don't always pass on third down.) He is now average at best.

              Regarding KY's point about Jenkins, it's true its possible he is going to return to the form that he flashed a couple years ago. But you can't say he is more than "just a guy" until it happens.

              Originally posted by hoosier
              Thompson and Montgomery might turn out to be something more than mere garbage.
              Well, we're talking about the roster for THIS season. Montgomery - sorry, he is garbage. Thompson - a project.

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              • #8
                I wanted a DE with the first pick in the draft. It needs to be addressed.

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                • #9
                  I think Jason Taylor would have been a smart gamble.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                    I think Jason Taylor would have been a smart gamble.

                    Nice short term move. A second and a sixth sounds a little steep, but not outrageous. But I think we need numbers - more than just one player.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
                      How effective was he last year, and what is a reasonable projection for this season given his knee looks chronically damaged?

                      "Mediocre" means that half the DE's in the league who get significant playing time are better, half are worse. I don't see KGB getting near the QB very often, and he doesn't play the run well (they don't always pass on third down.) He is now average at best.
                      Last year he had 9.5 sacks while missing the last quarter of the season, and if you respect McGinn's analysis he was maybe having his best year ever before he got hurt. So I don't know what you're seeing that McGinn and the stats are missing.
                      http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=783218.

                      I haven't read anything that would make me think he would be unable to perform at a similar level this year. You say the knee is chronically damaged, but on what basis? The fact that he's being held out of preseason games isn't necessarily significant. I don't think we'll really know until the season starts. But barring any strong evidence to the contrary, I am inclined to be optimistic.

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                      • #12
                        We did draft a Dlineman this year. We traded a 4th and one of TT's beloved 5th's for the Jets 4th in last years draft. Drafted DE J Thompson. It was the first time in the draft history of Ted T he ever traded up for a pick.

                        So far the kid looks 100% lost.

                        I'm still trying to figure out how we went from on of the deepest Dlines in the league to hurtin' for certain in the off-season.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hoosier
                          Last year he had 9.5 sacks while missing the last quarter of the season, and if you respect McGinn's analysis he was maybe having his best year ever before he got hurt. So I don't know what you're seeing that McGinn and the stats are missing.
                          http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=783218.
                          My time is far too valuable to read that article, but i will concede the argument. I was confusing his previous season where I believe he struggled. The years all start to run together when the sand in the hour glass is almost run down.

                          But still, KGB had his cartilege surgery a long time ago, the fact that he still can't get on the practice field means you can't count him for much.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KYPack
                            I'm still trying to figure out how we went from on of the deepest Dlines in the league to hurtin' for certain in the off-season.
                            I'll take a stab at this one...

                            1. We traded Corey Williams
                            2. Pickett has been hurt.
                            3. Jolly is trying to become a pharmacist during the offseason without a license.
                            4. KGB replaced his bad knee with an on sale Walmart knee.
                            5. Muir's promising development has evaporated.
                            6. Montgomery continues to tease, but is NEVER consistent.
                            7. Jenkins looks average.

                            did I miss anything?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by retailguy
                              Originally posted by KYPack
                              I'm still trying to figure out how we went from on of the deepest Dlines in the league to hurtin' for certain in the off-season.
                              I'll take a stab at this one...

                              1. We traded Corey Williams
                              2. Pickett has been hurt.
                              3. Jolly is trying to become a pharmacist during the offseason without a license.
                              4. KGB replaced his bad knee with an on sale Walmart knee.
                              5. Muir's promising development has evaporated.
                              6. Montgomery continues to tease, but is NEVER consistent.
                              7. Jenkins looks average.

                              did I miss anything?
                              8. Justin Harrell is still hurt.
                              One time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
                              John Maxymuk, Packers By The Numbers

                              Comment

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