Article on ZBS

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

In the article it says,

"You can do it with lesser talent," Jagodzinski said. "In Atlanta, I had three seventh-round picks, the left tackle, center and right guard, and at one time last year I had a fifth-round at left guard. And Barry Stokes was a free agent. So three sevens, a five and a free agent."

This really make me feel better about the up coming year b/c if Atlanta could do it with those players, I think we will also have success considering the fact we at least have two of the top tackles in the league.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=437939

[Partial]

Broncos Linemen:
G - PJ Alexander - Undrafted FA by New Orleans
G - Marin Bibla - 4th Round Selection by Falcons in 2002
G - Taylor Whitley - Undrafted FA by Denver
G - Dwayne Carswell - Undrafted FA by Denver
C/G - Ben Hamilton - 4th Round (113th) by Denver in 2001
C/G - Rob Hunt - Undrafted FA by Denver
C/G - Chris Meyers - 6th Round (200th) in 2005
C/G - Cooper Carlisle - 4th Round (113th) by Denver in 2000
T - George Foster - 1st Round (20th) by Denver in 2003
T - Javiar Collier - Undrafted FA by Dallas
T - Matt Lepsis - Undrafted FA by Denver in 1997
T - Cornell Green - Undrafted FA by Atlanta in 1999
T - Erik Pears - Undrafted FA by Denver in 2005

Total Draft Picks Spent On Line -
1 first round pick
3 fourth round picks
1 sixth round pick

the rest are undrafted fre agents!!!

Hawks Linemen:
C - Toby Cecil - Undrafted FA by Carolina in 2005
C - Austin King - 4th Round (96-128) by Tampa Bay in 2003
C - Todd McClure - 7th Round (237th) by Atlanta in 1999
G - Matt Lehr - 5th round (137th) by Dallas in 2001
G - Joe Tate - Undrafted FA by Jacksonville in 2004
G - Kynan Forney - 7th Round (219th) by Atlanta in 2001
G - Ben Claxton - 5th Round (157th) by Denver in 2003
T - Frank Omiyale - 5th Round (163rd) by Denver in 2005
T - Todd Weiner - 2nd Round (47th) by Seattle in 1998
T - Tyson Clabo - Undrafted FA by Denver in 2005
T - Shawn Draper - 5th Round (156th) by Miami in 2001
T - Garrick Jones - Undrafted FA by Kansas City in 2003

Total Draft Picks Spent On Line -
1 second round pick
1 fourth round pick
4 fifth round picks
2 seventh round picks
the rest are undrafted free agents!!!


I interpert this data as showing that they are successful with less gifted players. Guards and center drafted high are normally blessed with tremendous size to go with their outrageous athletic ability. Denver and Atlanta and now the Packers are implementing a system that allows for plenty of success with out such big, hard to find guards and centers. They are showing that you can build an extremely successful running game in the late rounds or even without using the draft.

What this means to the Packers is that we can use more draft picks on building the other aspects of the team such as the receiving core and the defense. This will be a great way to improve our teams depth!! I really, really like this move, and I think it will be one of (if not the biggest) aspect in our team becoming contenders again.

[Polaris]

Atlanta managed an 8-8 record last year with a bunch of Day Two picks and free agents on their offensive line. Meanwhile, Seattle and Pittsburgh had premium, Day One beef in the trenches.

Atlanta led the league in rushing last year, but let's not understate the impact of Michael Vick's 600 yards rushing. You put a normal QB in there and Atlanta still is a good rushing team but they aren't the league leaders.

Jags says stuff about getting by with "lesser talent" but we drafted two guards on the first day and our interior O-line is still generally regarded as a weak point on the team. Even if Spitz/Colledge/Coston/White/Wells are ALL above average guys and they stay healthy, they're still probably a year or two away from being a quality line. And if they aren't all above average, and if they get injuries that delay their development, then we're probably in a position where we need to add some more talent to this group before we'll have the kind of offensive line we need to be a serious playoff contender.

Sporting News had an article out where they gave our interior O-line a D-.....next worst in the NFC was a C-. You look at Minnesota adding two Pro Bowlers to their interior offensive line, you look at Detroit adding Lary Beightol and a half dozen FAs and Day One picks to their offensive line.......and they started ahead of us to begin with. I don't think we've closed the gap very darn much so far.

I realize this is the time of year when optimism runs rampant and journalists, desperate for copy, write a bunch of glowing puff pieces to build interest in the team they're going to cover during the season.

But I'm also taking some of this stuff with a healthy dose of skepticism. The interior of our offensive line is going to struggle this year. Hopefully, they'll stay healthy and improve as the year goes along but that's not a given. Personally, I suspect we're going to need to add some more talent to this group before it's really ready to get the job done.

[Partial]

Lets also not understate some other facts though.

The Falcons had the 22nd ranked defense in the league last year, including the 26th ranked rushing defense. They were still a top 10 team in the league in rushing when you take away all of Mike Vick's yards. The teams directly below them all have scrambling quarterbacks too, in Jake Plumber, Ben Roethlisberger, or titan-sized offensive lines in KC, Seattle, Washington, etc.

In 2003, Atlanta was led in receiving by Peerless Price. He had 64 catches for 838 yards, averaging 13.1 yards per catch. The next highest receiver had 550 yards.

In 2004, Atllanta was led in receiving by Alge Crumpler. He had 48 catches for 774 yards and a 16.1 yards per catch average. The next highest receiver had 575 yards.

In 2005, Atlanta was led in receiving by Alge Crumpler. He had 65 catches for 877 yards and a 13.5 yards per catch average. The next highest receiver had 611 yards.

It is evident that Atlanta is not a good team. They do not have anyone who can catch the ball other than their tight end, or a gun-slinging qb. We have both. I suspect we'll have many more big plays then Atlanta do to us having DD and some solid tight ends.



The fact is per attempt, Atlanta led the league in rushing and Denver followed closely in second. In 2004, Atlanta's first year of running the scheme, loaded with inexperienced offensive linemen and a hurt michael vick, they led the league in rushing yards and average again. In 2003, Denver was 4th in the league in rushing. Its evident that much of this success is from the scheme.

I think our running game will be near the top of the league regardless of if Favre is mobile or not. I have a hunch they're going to grind it out as both jags and m3 seem like grind it out smash-mouth football guys.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

well said partial....

[woodbuck27]

"The interior of our offensive line is going to struggle this year. Hopefully, they'll stay healthy and improve as the year goes along but that's not a given. Personally, I suspect we're going to need to add some more talent to this group before it's really ready to get the job done." Polaris

I believe your view is objective and fair Polaris.There is going to be a good deal of pressure set on whomever man's OUR "C" spot. Will Scott Wells or another fill Flanigan's shoes, is a big ? question mark ? with me.This is the man who must get the reads on the "D" and where is the experience but. . . NOWHERE !

What can we really expect with the lack of playing time from the interior of OUR OL but . . . breakdowns? We will surely experience growing pains there as fans but this willl be foremost - 'a season of transition' and we must trust that 'the Packers' will grow from there.

My early prediction was for 7 wins but I really don't know at present. If we do gain 7 wins, then OUR OL must do alot right.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The ironic thing is: Denver has a good OL, but if you had to pick the weakest starting spot on their OL, it would be their former first round pick at OT, George Foster.

[Patler]

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Funny thing is, GB's O-line was never as good in the mid and late '90s when it was a perenial Super Bowl contender or participant as it was in the early 2000s whne it made the playoffs but was never a favorite.. There was player turnover then, too. Starters, left to right, and their rushing yardage and sacks stats:

1995 - Ruettgers, Taylor, Winters, Galbreath, Dotson (1428 yds, 33 sacks)
1996 - Michels, Taylor, Winters, Timmerman, Dotson (1838 yds, 40 sacks)
1997 - Verba, Taylor, Winters, Timmerman, Dotson (1909 yds, 26 sacks)
1998 - Verba, Rivera, Winters, Timmerman, Dotson (1526 yds, 39 sacks)

You don't necessarily have to have a line capable of 2000+ yards rushing and 15 or fewer sacks to be a playoff contender. Fans have been spoiled into thinking that unless you have a line that plays together year after year, you can't be successful. Taylor, Michels, Verba, Timmerman, Rivera all became starters without much previous NFL playing experience. Verba, Clifton, and Tauscher have proven that rookies can come in and hold their own.

Wells has 12 starts in 2 years. He is not a neophyte. Colledge is a high enough draft pick that it is not outlandish to expect him to hold his own as Clifton, Tauscher and Verba did. If Spitz can fulfill what the team saw in him to merit a 3rd round pick, he can be adequate in 2006.

I'm not suggesting that the line will be as good as in 2002-2004, or even that it will be as good as it might be 2 or 3 years from now. But it doesn't necessarily have to be for the team to be competitive.

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Re: javascript:bbstyle(-1)

Funny thing is, GB's O-line was never as good in the mid and late '90s when it was a perenial Super Bowl contender or participant as it was in the early 2000s whne it made the playoffs but was never a favorite.. There was player turnover then, too. Starters, left to right, and their rushing yardage and sacks stats:

1995 - Ruettgers, Taylor, Winters, Galbreath, Dotson (1428 yds, 33 sacks)
1996 - Michels, Taylor, Winters, Timmerman, Dotson (1838 yds, 40 sacks)
1997 - Verba, Taylor, Winters, Timmerman, Dotson (1909 yds, 26 sacks)
1998 - Verba, Rivera, Winters, Timmerman, Dotson (1526 yds, 39 sacks)

You don't necessarily have to have a line capable of 2000+ yards rushing and 15 or fewer sacks to be a playoff contender. Fans have been spoiled into thinking that unless you have a line that plays together year after year, you can't be successful. Taylor, Michels, Verba, Timmerman, Rivera all became starters without much previous NFL playing experience. Verba, Clifton, and Tauscher have proven that rookies can come in and hold their own.

Wells has 12 starts in 2 years. He is not a neophyte. Colledge is a high enough draft pick that it is not outlandish to expect him to hold his own as Clifton, Tauscher and Verba did. If Spitz can fulfill what the team saw in him to merit a 3rd round pick, he can be adequate in 2006.

I'm not suggesting that the line will be as good as in 2002-2004, or even that it will be as good as it might be 2 or 3 years from now. But it doesn't necessarily have to be for the team to be competitive.

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well said