TT vs Sherman

[Jerry Tagge]

Ted Thompson's GM record after 3 seasons: 25-23.

Mike Sherman's GM record after 3 seasons: 34-14.

I can't believe Packers fans think the franchise's savior is a GM who is 9 games worse than Mike Sherman.

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: TT vs Sherman

Ted Thompson's GM record after 3 seasons: 25-23.

Mike Sherman's GM record after 3 seasons: 34-14.

I can't believe Packers fans think the franchise's savior is a GM who is 9 games worse than Mike Sherman.

[BallHawk]

Sherman inherited a talented team.

TT didn't.

Sherman's team peaked in 2001 and then went downhill.

Ted's team is still improving.

HE is still the savior.

[Bretsky]

Sherman inherited a talented team.

TT didn't.

Sherman's team peaked in 2001 and then went downhill.

Ted's team is still improving.

HE is still the savior.

Ron Wolf was the savior; he brough us Favre, Holmgren, and after a title.

TT, he's like a disciple right now trying to work his way to that status.

I hope he succeeds

[BallHawk]

So is TT the role of Paul?

[Jerry Tagge]

Sherman inherited a talented team.

TT didn't.

Sherman's team peaked in 2001 and then went downhill.

Ted's team is still improving.

HE is still the savior.

TT didn't inherit a talented team? He inherited a team that went a combined 44-20 the previous four seasons.

Compare that to Sherman who inherited a team that went a combined 41-23 the previous four seasons.

So it appears that TT inherited a more talented team than Sherman.

Sherman's Packers went 12-4 in 2002 so I don't see how you can say they peaked in 2001.

Sherman's Packers went to the playoffs every year he was GM and won 3 straight division titles. TT's Packers missed the playoffs his first 2 years.

Sherman's Packers always had a winning season. TT's Packers had a losing season his first year and a .500 season his second year.

Don't get me wrong, I cheered the day Sherman was fired as GM and cheered even more the day TT fired him as coach. It was TT's best move to date.

However, to say TT is the Packers savior because of one good year would be like voting Lindy Infante greatest coach in Packers history because of one good year.

Oh wait, Packers fans did vote Infante greatest coach ever after the 1989 season. How did he do afterwards?

[Jerry Tagge]

Re: TT vs Sherman

Ted Thompson's GM record after 3 seasons: 25-23.

Mike Sherman's GM record after 3 seasons: 34-14.

I can't believe Packers fans think the franchise's savior is a GM who is 9 games worse than Mike Sherman.

[Lurker64]

It's unreasonable to attribute the team's performance to the GM in any GM's first year, since no GM really has anything to do with the bulk of the team that is on the field in his first year. If we apply this (reasonable) standard fairly we get that:

Thompson's record for seasons 2-3: 21-11
Sherman's record for seasons 2-3: 24-8

What doomed Sherman was not how well his team performed on the field towards the beginning of his tenure, but because of how gutted and topheavy the roster was towards the end because Sherman was always gambling in FA or the draft and his moves seldom paid off. Sherman inherited a good team that got old and worse as he was the GM. Thompson inherited an old and topheavy team and has improved the roster significantly.

Is Thompson the savior? I don't see him walking on water any time soon, but let's see if we can win another superbowl before we give a definite answer here. Has he done a good job as a GM so far? Yes. Has he done some bad things as a GM? Yes, but the good outweighs the bad.

[Jerry Tagge]

It's unreasonable to attribute the team's performance to the GM in any GM's first year, since no GM really has anything to do with the bulk of the team that is on the field in his first year. If we apply this (reasonable) standard fairly we get that:

Thompson's record for seasons 2-3: 21-11
Sherman's record for seasons 2-3: 24-8

What doomed Sherman was not how well his team performed on the field towards the beginning of his tenure, but because of how gutted and topheavy the roster was towards the end because Sherman was always gambling in FA or the draft and his moves seldom paid off. Sherman inherited a good team that got old and worse as he was the GM. Thompson inherited an old and topheavy team and has improved the roster significantly.

Is Thompson the savior? I don't see him walking on water any time soon, but let's see if we can win another superbowl before we give a definite answer here. Has he done a good job as a GM so far? Yes. Has he done some bad things as a GM? Yes, but the bad outweighs the good.

I don't agree with your overall assesment of TT but this is a very reasoned and well thought out post.

Thanks for the response.

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: TT vs Sherman

Ted Thompson's GM record after 3 seasons: 25-23.

Mike Sherman's GM record after 3 seasons: 34-14.

I can't believe Packers fans think the franchise's savior is a GM who is 9 games worse than Mike Sherman.

I ain't defending TT, just saying BJ Sander was a gem making a joke. Sherman was a very good X's and O's coach and a shitty GM (although he had one intangible that most overlook on here....he was able to be sociable enough to get his players to rally under him as a Coach and GM...He did what he thought was best for his "current" players and listened to them. Those social skills go a long way not only as an NFL GM but as any good manager of any kind. BE FUCKING AWARE AND ASTUTE and not a socially ackward tard. TT has his good drafts and is an astute evaluator of talent.... yet he also has his Harrell "gem" and a young harem of boys praying, just fucking praying to get out that basement he has them isolated in. Reading them stories, does not a child toucher make ok IMO. TT is lacking in the social HR graces bigtime....awkward mofo IMHO as that is 1/3 the job. Quit pissing off your players you douchebag TT. We'll be stuck as a 9 win team with no upside for years till he figures that shit out.

[Tarlam!]

Re: TT vs Sherman

(...)Those social skills go a long way not only as an NFL GM but as any good manager of any kind. BE FUCKING AWARE AND ASTUTE and not a socially ackward tard.

So what if TT doesn't listen to his players? He has to be above that. If Sherman did listen to say, Brett Favre, then that just proves that he was a worse GM than I already thought he was.

One publicized problem with Coach Sherman is that he didn't listen to his staff- That is surely a poor management trait.

TT needs to dialogue with the scouting department first, the coaches second and finally, the media up to a point. He doesn't even need to be polite to players in his position.

M3 needs to listen to his staff, then his players. So, comparing Sherman the Coach to TT on who listens to players is asinine, IMHO.

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: TT vs Sherman

(...)Those social skills go a long way not only as an NFL GM but as any good manager of any kind. BE FUCKING AWARE AND ASTUTE and not a socially ackward tard.

So what if TT doesn't listen to his players? He has to be above that. If Sherman did listen to say, Brett Favre, then that just proves that he was a worse GM than I already thought he was.

One publicized problem with Coach Sherman is that he didn't listen to his staff- That is surely a poor management trait.

TT needs to dialogue with the scouting department first, the coaches second and finally, the media up to a point. He doesn't even need to be polite to players in his position.

M3 needs to listen to his staff, then his players. So, comparing Sherman the Coach to TT on who listens to players is asinine, IMHO.

I'm not EVEN talking bout Brett the Jet, but one thing rings true, as much of an ass clown Sherman was as a GM, he still had 100% solidarity as a GM....I like TT as a talent evaluator, but the dude is an ass-clown when it comes to getting peeps to accept him. It means nothing??? Loyalty is HUGE, fucking HUGE, wait till these young guys wanna resign and TT lowballs them..Nothing Snake hates worse than someone lying to your face or even worse, not telling you ANYTHING (where you stand, any inkling...)

....I don't know about you, but I want to know if I'm valued or not, as I've been in management for years... 1/3 of that is at least being knowledgeable of your staff and on speaking terms, as communication is key. I like him as a talent evaluator GM but TT is more or less (in layman terms) an Internet nerd with no social skills. I didn't want to have to do it, but I realize why you defend TT...I mean hey your high school pic wasn't the best yo...Sorry to see that....but happy to see you make some money from FOX.

[Kiwon]

I'd like to revisit this thread after the season.

The criticism or defense of TT's performance will become more justified after this 4th season.

BTW, given Farve's critical inside account of his dealings with TT, I'd love to hear about Sherman's experience as well. Sherman's too classy to do a tell-all interview like Farve did, but it would be interesting to compare Thompson's role in their exits out of Green Bay.

[MJZiggy]

You want loyalty? Sherman may have talked to his players and was personable (yet reportedly wouldn't listen to anyone), but TT has this silly little habit of renewing guys' contracts before they come due. Snake, you're worried what's gonna happen when guys' contracts come due? Ask Aaron Kampman or Donald Driver or Al Harris. When TT values a player, he gives them a new contract. He doesn't need to say shit to them, though I remember a publicized conversation or two he had joking with Favre about chew on the sidelines...convenient to forget stuff like that.

And Tagge, you know bringing this up, someone's gonna want to compare TT's current roster with Sherman's current roster.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Speaking for myself, I liked Mike Sherman when he was hired because the alternative was Ray Rhodes. Eventually, as I witnessed his drafts, I lost faith in him as a GM. Likewise, as I witnessed his coaching. I can't speak to how he interacted behind closed doors with his players, but I can tell you this: his time management skills as a coach on game day had me climbing the walls. Brett saved Sherman's ass too many times to count!

TT's biggest asset is M3, no doubt in my mind.