2006 Draft Class for the Pack

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

[Tony Oday]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

Donald Lee isnt a first round pick...

[HarveyWallbangers]

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

I'm not quite on the same page. There was nobody else good on that team. He should have been option #1 (ala Tony Gonzalez and Todd Heap when he's healthy) if he were really good. Really, is 52 receptions and 4 TDs on a team with little other receiving options better than 48 receptions and 6 TDs on a team loaded with other options? I'm not so sure. Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap, Alge Crumpler for a number of years would seem to disprove that it's been harder for Davis to get big numbers than a guy like Donald Lee.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nfl/news?slug=fantguru-shortcuts

Martz may be finding out that TE Vernon Davis isn't really very good, unfortunately. Davis seems to be used more as a blocker. Davis may be a teaser and not a producer. He has not improved from last year, a terrible sign. He has very tight hips and choppy steps; he's not the athlete everyone thinks he is. He's a just a workout warrior.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

Donald Lee isnt a first round pick...

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

You made it an issue by comparing him to Donald Lee, and implicitly saying that Lee has an advantage because he plays on a better team. Why would you compare Davis to Lee anyways? I like Lee, but there are plenty of TEs better than him.

[Tony Oday]

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

You made it an issue by comparing him to Donald Lee, and implicitly saying that Lee has an advantage because he plays on a better team. Why would you compare Davis to Lee anyways? I like Lee, but there are plenty of TEs better than him.

Im not picking a fight but yes I was pointing out that Lee wasnt a huge contract out of college and didnt come in the WR speed and proclaimed as the best TE to come out in a long time. Im not saying he is a bad player just not playing up to his selection.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

I'm not quite on the same page. There was nobody else good on that team. He should have been option #1 (ala Tony Gonzalez and Todd Heap when he's healthy) if he were really good. Really, is 52 receptions and 4 TDs on a team with little other receiving options better than 48 receptions and 6 TDs on a team loaded with other options? I'm not so sure. Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap, Alge Crumpler for a number of years would seem to disprove that it's been harder for Davis to get big numbers than a guy like Donald Lee.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nfl/news?slug=fantguru-shortcuts

Martz may be finding out that TE Vernon Davis isn't really very good, unfortunately. Davis seems to be used more as a blocker. Davis may be a teaser and not a producer. He has not improved from last year, a terrible sign. He has very tight hips and choppy steps; he's not the athlete everyone thinks he is. He's a just a workout warrior.

Harv,

He was the #1 option. I wasn't saying that it was better than Lee...the point is that he isn't a complete disappointment. Plus, he was injured for 2 games.

Let's not forget the numerous offensive coordinators.

Let's not forget who he has throwing the ball for him..last year the leading passer was Dilfer with 113 completions, followed by Smith with 94 and then Hill with 54.

YOu and i both know that the key to a passing game is consistency between the QB and receivers..they have to know each others timing, etc.

As for #1 option..c'mon. Davis has Arnaz battle..while heap isn't the #1..he competes with mason and clayton...all of whom have roughly the same amount of catches.

As for Gonzalez...you mean the guy with 90 receptions last year and 5 tds..i don't think that is helping your argument. Plus, even rookie Bowe was better than anything Davis has. And, the chiefs threw the ball more.

Lastly, Crumpler. Again, you need to look at the numbers..cause they don't help you. In 07 he had 42 with 5 tds, 06 he had 56 with 8 tds, 05 he had 65 with 5 tds, 04 he had 48 with 6 tds.

Each of those guys are older and more experienced.

For a second year guys, who had FOUR STARTING qbs last year....i think calling him a complete disappointment is unfair and inaccurate.

[mraynrand]

Re: 2006 Draft Class for the Pack

Really, with the #5 pick, you have to hope Hawk gives them even more than he's shown already.

I disagree that Hawk has to show more. I really don't know how much more he could do. He's a force against the run and vicious while blitzing. If he keeps up this level of play for another 5 years, I can't imagine how we could complain.

Well, he can't get spun around 360 in coverage on an average back, like in the opener. I'll concede that if he was still hurting and a bit rusty, it's understandable. I like Hawk, I think he's a fine player - even a pro bowler. But you don't (hopefully) get a lot of shots at the #5 overall pick. Typically, 5 and up (5 being a bit arbitrary) is where you have to get those game changing impact players. We'll see - maybe this is the year Hawk plays most of the season like he did at K.C. last year, coming up strong when he covered Gonzales. If (and when) he covers Witten, and covers him well (meaning he wins most of the battles) Sunday, I'll be impressed.

[Patler]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What would you consider a good game against Witten? Witten has gotten at least 53 yards receiving in 9 of his last 10 games. He's averaged 75 yards/game in his last 19 games. He's been throwing up WR stats. I'm not sure how well even great coverage LBs have done against Witten.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

You made it an issue by comparing him to Donald Lee, and implicitly saying that Lee has an advantage because he plays on a better team. Why would you compare Davis to Lee anyways? I like Lee, but there are plenty of TEs better than him.

That wasn't what i was implicitly saying.

I was saying...we are happy..not thrilled with Lee..and no one would call him a complete disappointment.

[mraynrand]

What would you consider a good game against Witten? Witten has gotten at least 53 yards receiving in 9 of his last 10 games. He's averaged 75 yards/game in his last 19 games. He's been throwing up WR stats. I'm not sure how well even great coverage LBs have done against Witten.

It won't be a yardage deal, just like in K.C. last year. It will be a down by down kind of thing. Hawk came up big in coverage late in that K.C. game, absolutely blanketing Gonzo up the middle. I think he can do that sort of thing consistently, and needs to, to be considered an all-pro kind of LB, like you'd like to get with the #5 pick. You'd expect him to get beaten from time to time, but if he's and elite LB, matched up one on one on a number of patterns, you expect him to win the battle most of the time. If the Packers choose to cover Witten other than by using Hawk, then you can't evaluate him as much (and I don't think they'll choose to do that or be able to do that, with the options the Cowboys have).

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

You made it an issue by comparing him to Donald Lee, and implicitly saying that Lee has an advantage because he plays on a better team. Why would you compare Davis to Lee anyways? I like Lee, but there are plenty of TEs better than him.

Im not picking a fight but yes I was pointing out that Lee wasnt a huge contract out of college and didnt come in the WR speed and proclaimed as the best TE to come out in a long time. Im not saying he is a bad player just not playing up to his selection.

A receiver has to have the QB to throw to him...4 starting QBs last year. That ain't good.

This year he has JT throwing to him...and so far JT has thrown 1 td pass this season....are you gonna blame davis for having a crappy QB throwing to him?

Take a look at other first round TEs...heap..16 receptions his rookie year.

Bubba 34 receptions.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

[mraynrand]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

absolutely - and four NOT VERY GOOD quarterbacks on a not very good team.