2006 Draft Class for the Pack

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's all true, and that can hurt, but Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap, and Alge Crumpler didn't have the best supporting casts and put up big numbers. Gonzalez put up huge numbers last year with Huard/Croyle throwing to him and no good WRs. Heap has put up big numbers with Boller (and an over the hill McNair) throwing to him and little help at WR. Crumpler put up big numbers with Vick throwing to him and little help at WR. I don't think it's all the players around him. I think he's been a disappointment. He could turn it around. It's too early to judge, but he's been a disappointment so far.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Abdul Hodge

Ingle Martin

Tyrone Culver

Dave Tollefson

are all still in the league on active rosters.

The only bust was Corey Rodgers.

[Patler]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

I recognize that. My point is that he apparently caught the ball 52 times, and didn't do much with it after catching it. With his size, speed, quickness and athleticism I would expect yards-after-catch would make his average much over 9.8 per reception. The QB has little to do with that. Some, but the receivers own talent has more to do with it. At 9.8 he must be getting hit and dropped immediately after the catch most of the time, and that is on him and is disappointing. He apparently is not getting separation from defenders, is not making tacklers miss and is not breaking tackles.

If he has 50 receptions for 750 yards and 8 TDs I would say he is living up to his hype. To me, the 9.8/catch sticks out as not very good.

[mission]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

I recognize that. My point is that he apparently caught the ball 52 times, and didn't do much with it after catching it. With his size, speed, quickness and athleticism I would expect yards-after-catch would make his average much over 9.8 per reception. The QB has little to do with that. Some, but the receivers own talent has more to do with it. At 9.8 he must be getting hit and dropped immediately after the catch most of the time, and that is on him and is disappointing. He apparently is not getting separation from defenders, is not making tacklers miss and is not breaking tackles.

If he has 50 receptions for 750 yards and 8 TDs I would say he is living up to his hype. To me, the 9.8/catch sticks out as not very good.

You make a fair point with all of this but a lot has to be said for simply the position he's playing and then, as an extension of that, how that position operates within a specific system.

9.8 isn't great and ill admit, i really know nothing about the 49ers the last couple years, but a lot of teams use their TEs in a much more "dump off" way and if Davis is more of a deeper seem kind of guy rather than someone who can make that first LB miss and *then* get his yards ... then you could argue for a guy slightly playing out of position.

Not that I'm defending him... I think he's a prick, but more just replying to the YPC topic.

And back on it, I'm sensing a coming party on Sunday night. AJ Hawk, Jennings and Rodgers ... who else? We're gonna see some big plays in our favor methinks ... Can't wait for some big defensive plays ... !!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That's all true, and that can hurt, but Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap, and Alge Crumpler didn't have the best supporting casts and put up big numbers. Gonzalez put up huge numbers last year with Huard/Croyle throwing to him and no good WRs. Heap has put up big numbers with Boller (and an over the hill McNair) throwing to him and little help at WR. Crumpler put up big numbers with Vick throwing to him and little help at WR. I don't think it's all the players around him. I think he's been a disappointment. He could turn it around. It's too early to judge, but he's been a disappointment so far.

Gonzalez: I went thru this. 5 tds. Plus, Bowe is a dang good receiver.

Heap: C'mon. Derrick Mason is a good WR as is Clayton. And, all three bascically have the same amount of catches.

Crumpler: I disagree. Far better than one WR named Battle.

And, you discount that each one those 3 has far more experience. Are you know suggesting that experience doesnt' count for anything.

You are also comparing situations with 2 qbs to a 4 qb situation.

I here what you are saying..i would say he has been disappointing like Patler said. But, a "complete disappointment"..no way.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

I recognize that. My point is that he apparently caught the ball 52 times, and didn't do much with it after catching it. With his size, speed, quickness and athleticism I would expect yards-after-catch would make his average much over 9.8 per reception. The QB has little to do with that. Some, but the receivers own talent has more to do with it. At 9.8 he must be getting hit and dropped immediately after the catch most of the time, and that is on him and is disappointing. He apparently is not getting separation from defenders, is not making tacklers miss and is not breaking tackles.

If he has 50 receptions for 750 yards and 8 TDs I would say he is living up to his hype. To me, the 9.8/catch sticks out as not very good.

My points were covered by mission.

I would agree with your expectations...but, the system they run with the crappy QBs...can we really say what should happen. I can't look at one of those QBs and think...man, i bet he hit him in stride and Davis just blew it.

Also, your assesment is predicated on the usual TE beating a LB or single coverage. Davis isn't getting that. He is the only threat so he is getting far more coverage. I see prolly more of him since i'm on the west coast and watch him play the cards....where we have our own disappointing TE..c'mon down Mr. Pope.

BTW, his average this year on 3 catches is 17 yards.

[Patler]

I would agree with your expectations...but, the system they run with the crappy QBs...can we really say what should happen. I can't look at one of those QBs and think...man, i bet he hit him in stride and Davis just blew it.

Also, your assesment is predicated on the usual TE beating a LB or single coverage. Davis isn't getting that. He is the only threat so he is getting far more coverage. I see prolly more of him since i'm on the west coast and watch him play the cards....where we have our own disappointing TE..c'mon down Mr. Pope.

BTW, his average this year on 3 catches is 17 yards.

I certainly am not "giving up" on Davis, as I said he still has time.

No. my assessment is not predicated on the "usual" coverage by a linebacker, or single coverage. Why would it be? Davis was supposed to be special, demanding defenses to do special things to cover him. That type of coverage tends to limit the number of catches, but at 9.8/catch he is clearly catching a lot of 5 and 6 yarders, receptions that occur before the double coverage gets there, and doing nothing special with it. I doubt teams are double-teaming him at the line of scrimmage, the double team comes up later.

To average 9.8 he has to catch quite a few much shorter than that, and get dropped in his tracks ala Bubba Franks. As a receiver, Franks did not live up to expectations. As a blocker, he did. As a red-zone threat, he did. Time will tell with Davis.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I would agree with your expectations...but, the system they run with the crappy QBs...can we really say what should happen. I can't look at one of those QBs and think...man, i bet he hit him in stride and Davis just blew it.

Also, your assesment is predicated on the usual TE beating a LB or single coverage. Davis isn't getting that. He is the only threat so he is getting far more coverage. I see prolly more of him since i'm on the west coast and watch him play the cards....where we have our own disappointing TE..c'mon down Mr. Pope.

BTW, his average this year on 3 catches is 17 yards.

I certainly am not "giving up" on Davis, as I said he still has time.

No. my assessment is not predicated on the "usual" coverage by a linebacker, or single coverage. Why would it be? Davis was supposed to be special, demanding defenses to do special things to cover him. That type of coverage tends to limit the number of catches, but at 9.8/catch he is clearly catching a lot of 5 and 6 yarders, receptions that occur before the double coverage gets there, and doing nothing special with it. I doubt teams are double-teaming him at the line of scrimmage, the double team comes up later.

To average 9.8 he has to catch quite a few much shorter than that, and get dropped in his tracks ala Bubba Franks. As a receiver, Franks did not live up to expectations. As a blocker, he did. As a red-zone threat, he did. Time will tell with Davis.

YOu are making my point. What he was supposed to be able to do...speed, split the zone, etc...are exactly the things that the qbs there can't do...get him the ball down the field.

So, he is now getting shorter passes and breaking tackles around the line of scrimmage isn't his forte, nor is it most tightends...break a tackle to get a few yards to maybe get the first down...but, nobody was expecting him to take dump off passes and break them long.

That would be like asking Randy Moss to do that...could he...sure, but you arent' utilizing his best skill...his speed and height compared to the dbs covering him.

[Patler]

YOu are making my point. What he was supposed to be able to do...speed, split the zone, etc...are exactly the things that the qbs there can't do...get him the ball down the field.

So, he is now getting shorter passes and breaking tackles around the line of scrimmage isn't his forte, nor is it most tightends...break a tackle to get a few yards to maybe get the first down...but, nobody was expecting him to take dump off passes and break them long.

That would be like asking Randy Moss to do that...could he...sure, but you arent' utilizing his best skill...his speed and height compared to the dbs covering him.

Now you are describing Davis as if he is a 200 lb WR. Of course he should break tackles, all good tight ends should, or carry the DB with him until others arrive. With a short pass, he should be able to out-quick a linebacker and outmuscle a DB, and pick up more than a step after the catch. At 9.8 he is getting nothing after the catch. My conclusion - he is allowing DBs and linebackers to bring him down one-on-one. He was supposed to be better than that.

[SnakeLH2006]

YOu are making my point. What he was supposed to be able to do...speed, split the zone, etc...are exactly the things that the qbs there can't do...get him the ball down the field.

So, he is now getting shorter passes and breaking tackles around the line of scrimmage isn't his forte, nor is it most tightends...break a tackle to get a few yards to maybe get the first down...but, nobody was expecting him to take dump off passes and break them long.

That would be like asking Randy Moss to do that...could he...sure, but you arent' utilizing his best skill...his speed and height compared to the dbs covering him.

Now you are describing Davis as if he is a 200 lb WR. Of course he should break tackles, all good tight ends should, or carry the DB with him until others arrive. With a short pass, he should be able to out-quick a linebacker and outmuscle a DB, and pick up more than a step after the catch. At 9.8 he is getting nothing after the catch. My conclusion - he is allowing DBs and linebackers to bring him down one-on-one. He was supposed to be better than that.

How dare you rip on Bubba Franks like that!! He's a beast I tell ya! (How the hell did they waste a #14 choice on that turd?) LOL

[The Gunshooter]

When Vernon Davis was drafted he cried hard. I had this feeling right at that moment the man would be no big deal. What football player cries like that unless he is retiring? Was Davis' goal to get the signing bonus and did he know he wasn't all that he was being made out to be?

[hoosier]

Last year Davis had 163 YAC for his 52 catches and 9.8 avg, which puts him well below league leaders, both overall and TEs. To be fair, though, Donald Driver had a statistically nearly identical year in 2003 with 52 Rec and 160 YAC, and we know that Driver is both a reliable receiver and productive after the catch. I think Davis's third year will tell a lot: is last year a good indicator of his lack of progression, or was it a down year and is his first year (20 Rec/128 YAC in limited playing time) really more indicative of where he is going? My gut feeling is that his production will never live up to his combine numbers, but I haven't ever had a chance to watch him closely.

[run pMc]

I wouldn't call V.Davis a bust or a complete disappointment, but I do think his production hasn't quite merited a #6 pick. Hawk has proven to be a far better pick. As others have pointed out, the Top 10 from that draft class have not lived up to their hype.

[HarveyWallbangers]

To be fair, though, Donald Driver had a statistically nearly identical year in 2003 with 52 Rec and 160 YAC, and we know that Driver is both a reliable receiver and productive after the catch.

To be fair, that's the year Driver landed on his head and hurt his neck, and he wasn't the same receiver the rest of that year.