Dallas O-line, Packer O-line

[Patler]

I apologize for starting yet another Packer/Cowboy thread. The offensive lines are being referred to in several threads, and I thought it would be interesting to focus on them.

The Cowboy line is almost a collection of misfits. it was only a few years ago that they were not very good. One of the reasons that Jones gave for bringing in Rivera was to have a player who could show the other lineman how the game should be played. (This is all Rivera's fault! )

Flozzell Adams - sort of an up-and-down career. The Cowboys seemed to have gone from loving him, to hating him, to loving him. 33 years old.

Leonard Davis - started out good in Arizona but seemed to be spiraling downward after six years. In fairness to him, he was moved all over the line. However, most reporters thought Jones had lost his mind offering such a huge guaranteed contract to what seemed to be an underachiever. Most who follow the Cowboys thought it would be a waste of money. Turned 30 this month.

Marc Columbo - almost the definition of an underachiever with the Bears, wh o gave up on him after four seasons and only a handful of starts. Turns 30 early next month.

Kyle Kosier - drafted by San Francisco and signed by the Lions to a one-year contract as a restricted free agent. San Francisco declined to match the Lions one-year offer, accepting a seventh round draft choice instead. Signed by Dallas as a free agent the following season. Turns 30 in November.

Gurode - has been a decent player. 30 years old.


I think the success of the Dallas line demonstrates that you need to find the right combination of players with significant experience as players individually for a line to come together. Players who look unimpressive in some situations, with others around them, can develop into a cohesive and productive unit. The middle of Green Bay's line could start to come together yet. The problem may be in that the tackles are significantly older, and may not be around to be a part of it for very long.

[The Gunshooter]

I saw Moll get bitch slapped and thrown aside like a sack of shit. How is he going to ever be more than a weakling?

[Patler]

I saw Moll get bitch slapped and thrown aside like a sack of shit. How is he going to ever be more than a weakling?

I don't consider Moll to be a starter. He is a backup at best at this point. We'll see what happens if Wells and Sitton are ready to play.


But that is also part of the point I was making. Columbo looked like a wasted draft pick in Chicago, probably as inconsistent as Moll, and dominated just as badly on some plays. He had injuries that slowed his development. Moll was injured a big part of last season. Moll played tackle just one year in college. He had been a TE before that. He is still learning how to play in the line, and may never be the right one in the mix. Or, like Columbo, he could emerge in another year or two.

[CaliforniaCheez]

The difference in the two Offensive Lines lead to everything else in the game. Experience is a big key. That and the ability to add muscle as male body ages. The Cowboy's line is simply better.


If you are an optimist, you consider Colledge the guy to take over for Clifton. If you have blind faith, Giacomini is the guy to take over for Tauscher. A realist will draft an OT.

I've seen a lot of criticism of the zone blocking scheme following the game. Maybe I'm old school but if you have good enough players they can play in any system.

The Packer DT's and KGB were pretty well handled. DT is another priority for next year's draft.

I sure hope the Jets win tonight and the win helps them to the playoffs.
Having 2 2nd round picks will be nice as the Packers need to draft a quality DT, a quality OT, and a quality CB in the first two rounds.

This is a solid playoff team but not a championship one.

[pbmax]

He got beat once, badly, for a sack. Can you please provide other details?

I saw Moll get bitch slapped and thrown aside like a sack of shit. How is he going to ever be more than a weakling?

[Noodle]

Whoever knocked on FOX for crap camera angles of downfield coverage should add another knock for crap angles of the o-line play.

We all saw Cool Hand sprinting out of the pocket and hardly ever stepping in to the pocket.

What I wanted to know was whether there was any inside pocket to step in to. That is, did the interior guys give him any space to step foward, as Romo did time after time? Or did the kid just get spooked?

Moll and the inside boys may not have given up a ton of sacks, but if they failed to hold the inside of the pocket, then that's damn near as damnable.

[pbmax]

The Cowboys O Line can be had and the Giants and Patriots demonstrated it last year. Large does not mean successful in all situations. Holding them to 27 when you had little support from your offense wasn't a calamity. As Patler aptly describes them, these misfits are not a collection of All Pros.

The Packers found a pass rush in the second half although they still failed to get home enough. The question I have would be whether they changed the scheme to get that pressure or was it the same personnel attacking? If they changed the scheme, my question is did that open up the 3rd WR for those two bombs?

The most depressing event was watching Kampman get handled by Columbo. That and Pickett give ground to the double team. It wasn't exciting to see Jolly have the best game.

[Patler]

The most depressing event was watching Kampman get handled by Columbo. That and Pickett give ground to the double team. It wasn't exciting to see Jolly have the best game.

If you can, watch replays. For some reason early in the game I started to focus on the Columbo/Kampman matchup whenever it could be seen in a replay. From what I saw early, I made it a point to concentrate on it.

While there weren't a lot of replays, I can't tell you how many times in pass protection Columbo had a hand on Kampman's facemask. It seemed like every one that was shown. Sometimes he would just give a quick shove, but other times he would grab and give a quick tug and then let go. He never had it long, and never was called for anything. It happened so often that it had to be intentional.

[Deputy Nutz]

He got beat once, badly, for a sack. Can you please provide other details?

I saw Moll get bitch slapped and thrown aside like a sack of shit. How is he going to ever be more than a weakling?

Moll was consistently walked back into Rodgers. This is no good especially when the Cowboys bring fast speed rushers off the edge. Rodgers had no chance to step up in the pocket because Moll was jammed up in Rodgers' grill all night long.

[KYPack]

Moll is a useful back-up. He basically got handled, but he is a average "human tool" at two positions. You need him around, but the bench is his home.

Colledge held his own, which surprised me. I've been scared of that boy ever since last years Dallas game. DC DID get tossed like a sack of dung in that game and got his ass benched for it. He didn't have a stellar game, but he held his own and I think there is a light at the end of his tunnel instead of an oncoming train.

There is another problem that will be fixed. Yesterday was the third straight game that there was a botched center snap Between ARod & Spitz. Spitz is short snapping. Sometimes he snaps the ball a tiny fraction early to try and get an advantage on the DT. That's a veteran center trick, but Jason doesn't know how to do it, evidently. Wells will get his gig back, if and when he's healthy.

[bobblehead]

The difference in the two Offensive Lines lead to everything else in the game. Experience is a big key. That and the ability to add muscle as male body ages. The Cowboy's line is simply better.

And Older.. this is one of the simplist truest posts I have ever read. The OL is a position that is hard to excel at when you are 21-25.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He got beat once, badly, for a sack. Can you please provide other details?

I saw Moll get bitch slapped and thrown aside like a sack of shit. How is he going to ever be more than a weakling?

The breakdowns occured from all areas of the offensive line. I didn't notice that Moll was particularly bad. And I thought the offensive line played reasonably well, it wasn't like they were getting rattled and overwhelmed.

[bobblehead]

The most depressing event was watching Kampman get handled by Columbo. That and Pickett give ground to the double team. It wasn't exciting to see Jolly have the best game.

If you can, watch replays. For some reason early in the game I started to focus on the Columbo/Kampman matchup whenever it could be seen in a replay. From what I saw early, I made it a point to concentrate on it.

While there weren't a lot of replays, I can't tell you how many times in pass protection Columbo had a hand on Kampman's facemask. It seemed like every one that was shown. Sometimes he would just give a quick shove, but other times he would grab and give a quick tug and then let go. He never had it long, and never was called for anything. It happened so often that it had to be intentional.

Early I thought Kamp held in there, but the boys made a point of running right at him to wear him down. That hand to the mask punch or twist move is a trademark of the cowboys going back before they did it to reggie. Back in the day a martial arts instructor showed jerry jones how pushing a guys chin and misaligning his neck took all his power away and the cowboys have been getting away with it every since (although they are more subtle nowdays). what bothers me is that back in the day ESPN did a piece on it...you would think the league would crack down on it, but nope, the boys are a good TV draw.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harlan,

You can defend this OL all you want (because you don't want Wells back starting), but the fact is: Jay Ratliff was the most impressive front seven player for Dallas last night, and he primarily went up against Spitz and Moll.

[Harlan Huckleby]

My opinion about Wells is that Sitton may improve the O-line more than him.

I don't see how this opinion relates to your comment. Obviously Moll is the temp who will soon lose a starting job.

My point on the O-line from last night is that they did not get overwhelmed. They need to get better, but they aren't a lost cause.