Favre and retirement 'the Right Time' to go.

[Tony Oday]

Actually Polaris I think you are in a BOX here shooter start bringing the box cutters cause you will need them!

[woodbuck27]

"You know, when people start manufacturing stats to use in their arguments against me, or telling me to "shut the fuck up"......that pretty well lets me know there argument isn't that strong to begin with." Polaris

1. I never make reference to anyone on this forum with derogatory language, Polaris. I'm a Gentleman.

2. I don't argue with anyone when I post. Arguing is for IDIOT'S.

3. I don't need to justify my stance with you on 'the fact' - that Favre has 'in fact', engineered many 4th quarter comebacks for the Packers since 2001, Polaris. The record's say he has generated those 4th quarter comebacks as the teams QB. After the 2004 season he was credited with 34. That is alot more than he had after the 2001 season,Polaris.

If you are in dispute with me, take that up with Packers.com and the records displayed elsewhere. My memory doesn't serve me to re-call all games / all details in OUR past, but I can read very well.

5. Longwell didn't take the ball from center, to get himself in position to kick the game winning FG. That is what Brett Favre has done for the past 14 seasons.Yet Favre is the first to give credit where it is due, as he doesn't ever claim it's all him.

"Well, a receiver had to catch the ball. Somebody had to block. A running back had to execute a play-action fake or pick up a blitzing linebacker in the hole. The coaches had to draw up the play and teach it in practice. And the defense had to keep the game close enough to make a comeback possible."

Favre has always subscribed to the theory that the quarterback gets too much credit in victory and too much blame in defeat. Fair or not, it goes with the territory.

"Stand under center and you're the center of attention. You're the guy with the bull's-eye on your back and the game's outcome, on occasion, in the palm of your hand."

How many times we've seen Favre totally burnt after playing his guts out in a game.He plays till the final whistle and then walks off the field to answer to the media in glory or defeat. There was way too much of the latter last season and it all took Favre to his special HELL. He almost cashed in as a result of his disbelief that we would do so poorly. He came into TC as prepared as he ever had to get the team off and running to another spot in the playoffs, and quite frankly he was let down in regards that don't any longer merit any discussion.It's over and done with - tired out.

We move on.

6. If it's your position to take Brett Favre down. I have no problem with that, as plenty of Packer fans are guilty of that drive. Fill your boots, Polaris.

7. Favre played outstanding, overall in 2002-04, and led us to three NFCN championships to prove that. He wasn't to blame for OUR debacle last season, despite being the scapegoat for many Packer fans that only see results, not how they arrived. What might have cause that pick or that loss.

[woodbuck27]

and. . . . Jaysusss Mary and joseph, Polaris !

I only took on 'the first statement', that you made in that slam on Brett Favre. There was a whole lot that really got on the wrong side of me Polaris.

I support Favre and you don't. Let's just leave it there! LOL.

[Tony Oday]

I like Favre he's like good 'n' stuff

[Harlan Huckleby]

I like Favre he's like good 'n' stuff

well spoken!

[packerpete]

You know, when people start manufacturing stats to use in their arguments against me, or telling me to "shut the fuck up"......that pretty well lets me know there argument isn't that strong to begin with.

Hey loser, I told you to shut the f**k up, and I meant it.

I didnt dispute any of your rantings against Brett Favre, Woody did that admirably, I dispute your right to be a Packer fan and say the crap you spewed. I honestly think you must be some gen x loser that jumped on the GBP bandwagon circa 1995 or so and thinks what you have seen is the cumulative history and substance of what GBP football is all about.

Think about history, think about respect, think about what you have contributed (nothing) and what Brett has contributed.

I dont care if Brett has a bad season this year, I think he deserves to start. The end result of that scenario is that he realizes that his skills have declined to the point where he needs to retire. If that happens, so be it. That point is far from where he is today.

3800 yards last season with 4th and 5th string RB and WR and no interior OL indicates that in spite of a few passes to the wrong team, he still has "IT".

So in short, I stand behind my reply to your lame ass post... shut the f**k up about Brett Favre and your lame ass opinion that he should quit the Packers and the NFL. You are obviously wrong and should admit such.

If you really think GBP football without BF is a step in the right direction, you havent looked around the league and especially at the QB cupboard in GB. The pickins are real, real slim brother. Favre is still among the cream of the crop, and in spite of some ints, he still has enough gas in the tank to continue to be a difference maker, he simply cannot do it by himself, he never could, it has always taken a team effort, and furthermore, he should not have been placed in the situation to have to try to as he was last season.

[Polaris]

Thank you Packerpete....

It's always nice when the Brownshirts let themselves be known.

I'd suggest that if the board software permits that you put me on ignore. If you think I'm going to "shut the fuck up" because you don't like what I'm saying then you're sadly mistaken.

In my original post, I did not say one thing that was not true. Not a single thing.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it.

[packerpete]

You can and will do as you please, just as I will let you and others know my feelings about it.

When your opinion is just plain wrong, I will continue to point it out.

You live with it, it seems to bother you more than I care.

I wont ignore you, I will just continue to point out your shortcomings when you formulate a point that is mistaken.

[woodbuck27]

"In my original post, I did not say one thing that was not true. Not a single thing.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it." Polaris

To many of us Polaris, 'the TRUTH' is merely what we perceive in ourselves that it is and 'in fact' we may be wrong. We get to really believing it's this or that, and lose sight of the facts. It's therefore always better to take an approach to try to learn what TRUTH is.

I won't go back to arguing with you on the fact I disagree with you that Favre has 'in fact' had - fourth quarter comebacks - since 2001, because he did acording to those supposedly in the know.I will certainly not argue with you of what the definition is of that term. The experts have defined that too Polaris.

I'm sure you are well aware of the factual contents of this following article that describes Brett Favre's LIFE for the period, just preceeding OUR 4-12 season in 2005. Maybe you read it or maybe not, but it certainly reminded me of the way that life can be orchestrated to humble us.

Here is Lori Nickel's fine Article:

Long season of heartaches

by Lori Nickel/Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
December 3, 2005


“Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees.”
— J. Willard Marriott

How much can one man handle?

A broken thumb? For Green Bay Packers quarterback Brett Favre, sure, it was rough, but of course he'd play through it.

But the sudden death of his father? Well, that hurt like nothing else.

Then Favre found out tragic news about his young brother-in-law, and then his wife had cancer. Cancer. The word alone sent chills through him.

Then former teammate Reggie White died unexpectedly, and surely, this couldn't all be happening in a 14-month span. How long can one man hold it together when everything else seems to be falling apart?

From October 2003 to the end of the 2004 season, Favre endured one form of personal adversity after another. Football, which had been his whole world, became a respite. At least on the field, Favre might have some control of what happened.

The 2003 Green Bay Packers season started out with a disappointing loss to Minnesota in the official unveiling of the newly renovated Lambeau Field. Then the Packers took a 3-3 record into Week 7, and that's when the tone of the season changed.

On Oct. 19, Favre broke the thumb on his right, throwing hand at St. Louis after he slammed it into the shoulder pad of lineman Mike Wahle. Favre shook off the injury and kept playing. He would spend nine weeks on the NFL injury report, the second-most in his career.

He wore a splint that both preserved his record-setting consecutive starting streak at quarterback and drove him absolutely nuts. The injured thumb helped contribute to fumbles and poor play for a few weeks, but Favre was still the leader of the Packers in victories against Minnesota in a rematch, Chicago and San Diego.

Still, the Packers were struggling to make the playoffs, sitting at 8-6 and trailing Minnesota in the divisional standings. Green Bay had to get a victory at Oakland on "Monday Night Football."

The day before the game, Favre learned that his father, Irvin, died of a heart attack while driving his car in Mississippi. 'Big Irv' was Brett's high school coach, his mentor and one of the closest people to him.

"I remember that day. I remember the uncertainty," Antonio Freeman said last week. He was a Packers receiver from 1995-2001 and again in 2003. "Brett came to our team meeting that night - his whole face was just pink.

"He had probably been crying, he was probably holding in a lot of tears. When you lose someone of that magnitude, you use your family to console you. He had no true family. Yeah, he had the team, but Deanna wasn't there, the kids weren't there, he wasn't in the comfort of his own home.

"I think of all the things he had to deal with. He couldn't go anywhere, and he had to deal with getting that news, of having to make a sudden decision about - do you play, or do you not, not having your family with you, being confined - all those things running together in about a three-hour period. It could have been very easy for him to walk away from that football team and say, 'Well, this is too much. This is my best friend, my dad, this is my everything, and it's too much for me,' and we all would have respected that.

"He handled it like a true champ. He handled it like the true competitor that he is. He said that his dad would have wanted him to play. It was a magical night. I still think back to that night and it was unbelievable. That night solidified everything I already knew about Brett Favre."

Favre played what he calls the best game of his entire 15-year career - MVP seasons, Super Bowls included.

Favre threw for 399 yards, four touchdowns and had a team-record passer rating of 154.9, just three points from perfect. The Packers rolled over the Raiders, 41-7.

The Packers flew Deanna out for the game, and the two walked off the field in one of the most memorable shots of Favre's career. That game was the best way Favre - at first nervous and then emotional - could pay tribute to the man he both admired and tried to please every time he put on a football jersey.

"I was afraid I wouldn't play well," Favre said Friday. "That day of the game, I'd almost forgotten who we were playing. I forgot all the stuff I prepared for all week. Here I am on the national stage, which is tough anyway, we're in a situation where we need to win, and all of a sudden, I couldn't tell you what they do on defense. I went blank.

"Playing is one thing. Going out there and honoring your father is another."

Around that time, Favre also made the Pro Bowl, despite the thumb injury, because he helped lead the Packers to 442 points, the second-highest in team history. He also threw an NFL-best 32 touchdown passes - 19 of them after that St. Louis game in which he broke the thumb.

The Packers won their last four games of the season, finished 10-6 and benefited from a total collapse by Minnesota. Arizona's Nate Poole caught a last-second, deep fourth-down pass to beat Minnesota, 18-17. The Packers claimed the NFC North title and headed to the playoffs red-hot.

Favre mourned the loss of his father in front of everyone and wondered if destiny had a role in the latest events.

"Something's going on here," Favre said at the time.

In the playoffs, the Packers won a thrilling home game against Seattle in overtime on a returned interception for a touchdown by Al Harris. But the team of destiny met its fate. In the second round, the Packers would not be able to hold Philadelphia on a fourth-and-26 play on defense.

The Eagles also threw a blitz that tripped up Favre just enough to force him to throw a late, game-changing interception. Eagles coach Andy Reid, Favre's former quarterbacks coach in Green Bay, said he was just trying to make a play and swore he didn't have the kryptonite only someone that close to Favre would know about.

"No, I mean, he's seen everything," Reid said recently. "We happened to catch it right. We needed to make a play at that time or we weren't going to be in that ball game."

In an instant, the Packers had their eyes on an NFC Championship game with Carolina, and maybe a good shot at the Super Bowl. But the season was over. Favre went home for a quiet off-season during which he was seldom heard from publicly.

The 2004 season began with a 1-4 start and a humiliating Monday night showing against Tennessee at Lambeau.

Soon after, in October 2004, Deanna Favre's brother, Casey Tynes, died in an all-terrain vehicle accident on the Favre property in Mississippi.

Still coming to terms with her brother's death, and admittedly numb, Deanna Favre then learned a lump in her breast was cancer. Though she caught it early and was given an excellent prognosis for recovery, she would need months of treatment - a lumpectomy, chemotherapy and radiation, all of which left her tired and at times very down.

"Cancer, it is as close to death as you can get," Brett Favre said. "As soon as I heard cancer, I thought, this is not good. When she told me that, my reaction was, you have got to be kidding me. I didn't feel sorry for myself, I felt sorry for her because she's always been the one who's kind of carried the load.

"I can't say that I ever asked, why me or why us. It was, 'How much more?' "

Two days after the Packers clinched their third consecutive NFC North Division championship with a 34-31 victory at Minnesota on Christmas Eve, in which Favre orchestrated 80-yard and 76-yard drives to win the game in the fourth quarter, White died. One of the NFL's greatest defensive linemen was only 43. He was very close to Favre as one of the leaders of the 1996 Super Bowl championship team. Favre missed a practice to be a pallbearer at White's funeral.

Through it all, Favre's numbers for 2004 were undeniably remarkable. He was still at the top of his game. He passed for 4,088 yards, 30 touchdowns and a 92.4 passer rating. Behind a solid offense that carried the team, Green Bay finished strong late in the season and made the playoffs.

But there they were, simply stung by Minnesota in the first round at Lambeau Field. Favre was sacked, threw interceptions and the Packers in general were mistake-prone. It was such a horrible game that Favre would have called it a career right then and there if he had been impulsive.

He didn't. He waited and gave himself time instead of making a rushed, and maybe regrettable, decision. He waited for Deanna's strength to return and for life that was cancer-free.

Deanna has since thrown herself into an advocacy role for breast cancer patients, starting her own Deanna Favre Hope Foundation. She helps raise money to pay for treatments for women in financial need.

When she was OK, Favre really started to miss the game and knew he had at least another season in him. He had hoped the personal turmoil was behind him.

"The thing about Brett is, even in the toughest of times, he was going to have fun doing what he did, and he was passionate about it," Reid said. "His overall toughness. You weren't going to keep him off the football field. Those are two things you really respect in him."

About two months after the end of the 2004 season, Favre said he'd come back for a 14th season in Green Bay in 2005. He'd come back a changed man in one way.

"One time in my life, for a long period of my life, football was all that really mattered," Favre said. "Everything else just kind of followed along with it. I lost Dad, and Dad was so much a part of my football career, just as much as life in general. Most of the time we talked, it was football. It wasn't, 'Hey, how's life going,' it was football. So when I lost him, it took a big chunk of football away from me.

"Then to lose Deanna's brother and have her face cancer, which is a family crisis, just made football seem so secondary. I would not want to have anyone go through what I went through to realize there is more to life than football. But it kind of opened my eyes to, this is a small period in your life, there are a lot of things much more important than football.

"Whether I had retired last year, whether I retire this year, next year, whatever, it really doesn't matter. Because I'm still here. And when I decide to leave, it'll be tough, but it won't be as tough as some of the things I've gone through."

[Patler]

So.....If you read my ORIGINAL STATEMENT CLOSELY...it clearly states:

I believe that Favre hasn't engineered a game-winning TD drive late in the fourth quarter since 2001

And I think that's a true statement.

So what's the difference if it is game-winning drive climaxed by a TD or a game-winning drive climaxed by a fieldgoal? Absolutely nothing, especially if the TD is on a running play.

You made a statement that may be true, but is meaningless within the context of winning and losing games. Moving the team into position for the winning score is all that matters.

[woodbuck27]

"I believe that since the middle of the 2002 season he's lost more games than he's won. I believe his 29 interceptions last year was one of the worst performances in history." Polaris

Just so you'll be a more - in the know ,up with the facts or TRUTH Packer fan, Polaris.

"I believe that since the middle of the 2002 season he's lost more games than he's won." Polaris

waaaaaaannnkkkk ! WRONG. NOPE !

The Packer record 'in the regular season', since game eight of the 2002 season is 29W - 27L. Overall, including playoff's, 30W - 30L.

It's interesting to me Polaris, that you decided to condemn Favre, since the middle of 2002, as the record for the first 8 games of 2002 was 7W - 1L.

Looking a little deeper.

Incidently, if you go back to look at all the games since OUR last Super Bowl win. Brett Favre's record as a QB (Wins Vs. Loss's) was 78W - 57L or (0.578). The Packer record from 1993 to date is - 142W - 86L or (0.623).

Even with the disasterous record of 2005 or 4-12, Brett Favre has experienced with his team alot of victories compared to loss's. His winning percentage as a QB prior to 2005 was outstanding compared to ALL QB's that ever played the game.

If you were to take away 2005 and look at his record from 1993 -2004 or over a span of a dozen season's.

The Packer's overall record in 212 games was. . . 138 W -74 L or a winning percentage of 0.651. That is REAL good! Compare that to the record of all the other QB's that played in the NFL since 1992 Polaris. That will keep you busy. . . but I'll advise that not many have won more, as regards a winning percentage, if you look at his work over that span of years compared to other's, Polaris. ALL other's.

"I believe his 29 interceptions last year was one of the worst performances in history." Polaris

I will agree that all those picks wern't a good thing but have you ever considered why Favre had all those picks? Was it all Brett Favre? What all led to any pick happening?

Polaris you have it in for Favre and so be it. That is really sad Packer fan, as he has accomplised 'way too much for us' as Packer fans, to be torn down as you have chosen to do. I won't - deride you or curse you, as you have every right to stand opposed to what Favre means to us now.

You would rather Rodgers be in there now Polaris? Would that be the answer, with all we are seeing from him?

If so, you may soon get, 'your wish', Polaris. Just hang in for a few more seasons of Favre magic!

[woodbuck27]

Favre led the Packers to these ** 4th Quarter Comebacks since 2001:

The 2002 Season There were three **.

1. Sunday, September 8, 2002 - Packers 37 Falcons 34.

2. Sunday, September 29, 2002 - Packers 17 Panthers 14

3. Sunday, December 8, 2002 - Packers 26 Vikings 22

The 2003 Season There was one **.

4. Sunday, November 16, 2003 - Packers 20 Buc's 13. Note: Teams were tied in the 4th quarter.

The 2004 Season There were four **.

5. Sunday Nov. 14, 2004 - Packers 34 Vikings 31

6. Sunday Nov.21, 2004 - Packers 16 Texans 13

7. Sunday Dec. 12, 2004 - Packers 16 Lions 13

8. Friday Dec. 24, 2004 - Packers 34 Vikings 31

So Polaris I make that . . . 8 fourth quarter comebacks, that we saw Brett Favre engineer as OUR QB. . . since 2001.

That is a long ways from none.

Incidently in the game last year when we defeated the Detroit Lions 16 - 13 in O.T. the Packers trailed 13 - 10 after three quarters and that is just one more fourth quarter comeback with Brett Favre as OUR QB.

Now . . . that is 9 fourth quarter comebacks since 2001, Polaris.

That is better than two per season since 2001.

[woodbuck27]

Thursday, May 11, 2006

In Defense of Brett Favre #4,397 ( A Blog)

"When the Great Ones
are No Longer the Great Ones...
Sometimes they are the Last Ones to Know!"
-- Colin Cowherd

Basically that was the argument Colin Cowherd layed forth yesterday on his ESPN Radio program. Not to be outdone... and further carrying Colin's water... The Mike and Mike Show (also ESPN Radio), starring Mike Golic and Mike Greenberg, reiterated the point.

Here was their basic premise. Randy Johnson, Shaquielle O'Neal and Brett Favre are basically... in the twilight of their careers and maybe... just maybe they should consider packing it in.

RJ has struggled (He's 5-3) and does not seem to "go after" hitters like he used to. A commentator pointed out that 5 years ago... Randy would just bring the heat and not be concerned about who was up or what the game situation was... He was Randy effin' Johnson and he was the 6'10" Terminator!

On Shaq, their argument centered around the centers complaints of refs calling the game too tight. They bemoaned (Most Cowherd) less than stellar stats. Shaq had 21 points, 6 rebounds and 2 fouls in 29 minutes of play in the Heats' 111-89 win over the Nets.

Brett, of course, is in his off season. They seemed to focus on Brett's saying "Give me one or two more players and we can win." Ya know... I don't actually recall Brett saying that. I do recall his wanting the Pack to go out and field a competitive team... that I do recall... it's the Namath like guarantee of wins I don't recall.

Now Mike Golic, who actually played a sport, made the observation (after a listener emailed this point) that even an aging Randy Johnson, Shaq and Brett... are better than 70% of the rest of the players out there... they just don't "dominate" like they used to.

Golic further instructed that, perhaps it would be wise for the trio, as well as other elder sports hereos, to consider going all Jerome Bettis up in herrre. Basically, adapt your game. Jerome carried the ball less... specialized in Redzone and Ball control (Colts game goaline fumble hahahaha). Jerome also took a pay cut. Jerome... went out on top! Point taken.

Mike Greenberg, illicted the incredibly ridiculous statement of... Brett can't do the things he could when he was 30. First off... he's only effin' 36 now... that's just 6 years Greeny... duh! Secondly, anybody that's actually been following Brett knows full damn well Brett hasn't lost a single rpm on his patented fastball. Hell they still marvel at that with jugs guns during Pack Monday nighters! So basically my point is... double duh... What you saw out of Brett last year was exactly what you saw out of Brett in 2000. He just looks older.


Now listen... I get the point.
I'm old enough to remember the fat Elvis.
Sure... it would have been nicer to just remember the King as the good looking swivel hipped lady killer that he was in the 60's.


But age... pills... and the "all you can gorge" buffet table at Ceasers did Elvis in.

Has Brett lost a step?

How the Hell should we know? Brett rarely ran the ball... how many effin' times have you yelled at your tv screen on 3rd and 1, Brett's scrambling... he's right there... RIGHT effin' THERE at the down marker... he could trip over his own effin' shoe laces and move the chains but Nooooooooooooo... Super arm has to chuck the mo fo 40 yards down the field!

I swear... on my mother's eyes this happens at least 4 times a year!


As to Brett's "playing Past" the time he should.

Heck in a hand basket people... we go through this same anal exam every year... Brett saying... "I don't wanna be one of those guys that played one year too many." Yadda yadda effin' yadda already!


As to Last season's interceptions to TD's ratio...
Bite me!

As Packer fans we know full effin well Brett was on his 5th Running back (Green, Davenport, Fisher, and Gado... all injured) Walker and Franks went down early... Walker for the season! He ended the season throwing to Driver, Lee, Chatman, Gardner and Thurman. Bite me!

All that with Wahl and Flannigan and Rivera gone. (Flanny due to injury but that still counts) It just floors me that they lumped Brett into that mix of players.

I mean... seriously... who reads defense's better than Brett Favre?
Nobody

Who scrambles better than Brett... seriously... don't give me no Michael Vick crap... dude looks to run the ball coming out of the tunnel and you know it... I guess I should word this... who has the best escapability?
Brett does... the dude has butter hips when he's scrambling and here's a little secret we all know and thankfully the rest of the league hasn't learned... Brett is more accurate when he's on the move.

Why the Hell don't they roll his ass out more???


Lastly... I will admit... Brett does need to play smarter. Hey I liked Sherm but he had No discipline over Brett. Truth be known... Holmgren barely had it.

Hopefully, McCarthy will be able to reason with Brett to "stick to" the system a bit more and Not try to win every game with a single throw.

Brett Favre's biggest enemy has always been Brett Favre.

All that said... Brett aint no Fat Elvis!

THE PACKER PUNDIT
By Pat Stuckey 5/11/2006

[Fosco33]

Good stuff, Woody.

[woodbuck27]

Good stuff, Woody.

Sometimes you find the damn'dest things when your looking for something else.