Were we all fooled?

[Pacopete4]

FYI - Gravy had 2 solo tackles and a sack Sunday, and Pickett had 2 solo and 2 assists, no sacks. Gravy also had 7 burgers, 2 milkshakes, a hambone, and curly fries - and that was just breakfast.

damn u clifton and tausch... oh wait....

[Cheesehead Craig]

Can't resist, have to comment:

After 5 games:
2007 - 320 plays on offense, 1811 yards, 30:22 time of possession/game.
2008 - 298 plays on offense, 1687 yards, 29:08 time of possession/game.

So the difference on offense, average per game, 4.4 plays, 24.8 yards, 74 seconds more in 2007 than 2008. I hardly think that is significant as to the impact on the defense wearing down.

Building an O-line takes time, especially when the immediately preceding GM (one Mike Sherman) provided nothing in backups to build on. Wolf said you have to draft O-line every year to work with them. He had a string of guys ready to step in as guys like Ken Ruettgers, Harry Galbreath, Aaron Taylor, Adam Timmerman and Ross Verba left in free agency or retired. Along came Rivera, Wahle, Clifton and Tauscher. Sherman had Wells, but who did he have to replace Rivera and Wahle? It was particularly problematic when he, Mike Sherman, arranged their contracts to have critical years in the same year.

TT has re-emphasized the need to continually bring in O-linemen, with a couple each year.

Rivera did not even start until his third season, and then was the weak link on the line for several seasons.

Wahle started his second season, was benched after a few games into his third season never to be seen again until his fourth season.

Colledge and Spitz are just entering their third seasons and seem to be ahead of what Rivera and Wahle were in their third seasons. There are young, developing players in Barbre, Sitton and even Coston. Perhaps Giacomini and Moll, too. Who was Sherman developing? Kevin Barry and Wells, that's about it.

The succession of O-line players that Wolf always provided stopped dead in its tracks under Sherman. TT has re-started it, but they have to experience the void left by Sherman before any kind of stability will be seen.

And that's just one area of the team. How about WR. LB and DB? What depth did TT inherit from Sherman? Nothing behind the starters, and even some of the starters shouldn't have been. Now, WR looks pretty good and even the DBs don't look too bad with starters out. The linebackers are head and shoulders above what was here when TT arrived.

TT also had to dedicate a draft pick or picks to replacing Favre, something Sherman didn't have to do and never did even though he did give it some lip-service in his pre-draft discussions.

You can complain all you want about the O-line, but that was only a small part of what TT had to fix, and probably the most difficult for seeing instant results. He had a big project and isn't done yet.

Post of the friggin' season so far! It takes time to build and OL and get chemistry. Well done Patler!

[Patler]

FYI - Gravy had 2 solo tackles and a sack Sunday, and Pickett had 2 solo and 2 assists, no sacks. Gravy also had 7 burgers, 2 milkshakes, a hambone, and curly fries - and that was just breakfast.

damn u clifton and tausch... oh wait....

One of the explanations I saw blamed Tauscher and Clifton for the sack Jackson had. Tauscher's guy beat him, Clifton was being pushed back. Rodger had now where to go but straight forward into the waiting arms of Jackson. A "gift" sack for Jackson.

[Patler]

negative or not, TTs failures are hurting this team whether u like it or not... along with injuries... u cant just point out positives about him...

What failures are you talking about? I don't think he has failed on the O-line, just hasn't had enough time to finish with all the rest that was needed.

[texaspackerbacker]

Wasn't there a discussion a while back that pacopete might be the latest incarnation of Tank? If so, did that ever get established one way or the other?

Somebody, I think, Bobblehead, said it best. Who among us foresaw the rash of injuries on defense, as well as Clifton turning to shit this suddenly? We actually DO have fairly decent depth among the DB--3 starter quality Safeties and Williams and Blackmon as backups at Corner, not to mention Lee and Bush.

D Line? We've got a lot of quality people. Were we all fooled about that? I don't think so. Pickett is apparently playing hurt; Maybe Jolly too. You can blame Thompson for picking Harrell--who still might turn out all right, but everything else is unforeseen bad luck.

O Line? We have a good collection of young talented linemen that fit the scheme. The fact that a lot of forum know-nothings don't like the scheme doesn't diminish that. Thompson apparently thought he could get another year or two out of Clifton and Tauscher. Is he to be blamed for that? Their replacements probably are already on the team, but just not ready for prime time.

Grant? Thompson probably got lucky with him last season--nobody is THAT good a judge of talent. I still think Grant will have a good year. As for the guy who said the problem is teams not respecting Rodgers like Favre and playing to stop the run, I don't think that lasted beyond the first or second game--although there may be something to the idea that Rodgers is too predictable in always escaping to his right.

McCarthy's play calling and discipline? Play calling, maybe--in the sense that he has kinda babied Rodgers along with stripped down gameplans, but lack of discipline? Where does that idea come from? Discipline was fine when we were winning last season; I haven't seen any indication of a difference this year.

We're 2-3 after a fairly lousy start with some injuries and bad luck. There is plenty of opportunity to snap out of it. Just look at how many projected "top teams" have been disappointments this year--some with obvious reasons, some not so much.

Once we get back at least one of the hurt Safeties, things will get a lot better. Also, I still think the running game is going to come around as Grant gets healthy and McCarthy opens up the playbook a little more. And if the positive rumors about Harrell are true, that's gravy.

[Patler]

I agree it often takes 4 years for the OL man to develop

So you either suffer as they are or use another means to bring one in while the others find their game

Apparently we choose to suffer

I know this is a bur under your saddle, but I'm not sure who they could have signed. At the time, many seemed to think that Klemm was a good signing. An experienced New England guy about which one reporter said, "Brett Favre will love his pass blocking."

TT tried to sign Pork-Chop Womack, but in the end couldn't get him to leave Seattle. In retrospect, that may have been a good thing. He hasn't been anything more than a backup, really. Andruzzi refused to even visit anywhere, just signed with Cleveland where he wanted to be Etc., etc.

[RashanGary]

Some great posts, Patler.

[BEARMAN]

Fool me once, shame on me, ... Fool me twice, three times, five times, ... Shame on the pack !

Gotta love you Bearman. you are ALWAYS backwards. :P

Atleast some one luvs me ! :P

[Partial]

Tex I recall one point where you claimed Grant was a top 3 running back in the league. Now he's just good Just giving you shit!

[Scott Campbell]

Besides the injuries, the most disappointing thing to me in the 1st 5 games has been the relatively poor play of both Clifton and Tauscher at times.

You know, you almost expect injuries. But I didn't expect the play those two guys drop off a cliff like this.

[mraynrand]

McCarthy's play calling and discipline? Play calling, maybe--in the sense that he has kinda babied Rodgers along with stripped down gameplans, but lack of discipline? Where does that idea come from? Discipline was fine when we were winning last season; I haven't seen any indication of a difference this year.

I think play calling 'restriction' is going bye bye. McCarthy and Rodgers adjusted very well after a terrible first quarter on Sunday. Rodgers was using all his weapons, especially the TE. He even had less hesitation on most throws. He's getting comfortable in the offense. If injuries and the line settle down, the Packers could really be in for a nice run after the bye. Hopefully Rodgers won't be saddled with a defense that gives up 24-30 - points a game.

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: Were we all fooled?

After seeing our depth so far, were we all fooled by thinking TT knew what the hell he was doing? Our oline hasn't been up and running since he got here and our Dline hasn't improved either... for the GM of the year award winner, shouldn't we expect much more out of him?



Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader?



sure seems like we were fooled....

YEP.

[Gunakor]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.

Give SPECIFIC examples of how you would have done differently if you think you could have done a better job. Give names, both of players you would have brought in and players you would have released. Then figure in the cap ramifications of each and every transaction you'd have done differently. Then determine how those cap ramifications would affect next years payroll, as well as each subsequent years payroll for as long as the contract you'd offer said player(s). Then figure out how you are going to resign our core group of young studs such as Rodgers and Jennings and T-Will and Bigby and such, all while staying under the cap. Something tells me this team would be in much worse shape with Rats running the show...

[Pacopete4]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.

so if TT just brings in shit O/D lineman and says here ya go MM, get the job done... its MM's fault? haha what a joke... TT should look in the mirror in the morning and be disgusted as a GM with that pathetic O/D line he runs out there every week...


ya know why MM doesnt shake it up? because thats the best shit we can put on the field... sad isnt it?

[cheesner]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.

so if TT just brings in shit O/D lineman and says here ya go MM, get the job done... its MM's fault? haha what a joke... TT should look in the mirror in the morning and be disgusted as a GM with that pathetic O/D line he runs out there every week...


ya know why MM doesnt shake it up? because thats the best shit we can put on the field... sad isnt it?

Individual plays are a players responsibility

Games are the responsibility of the coaches

Seasons are the responsibility of the GM


This season isn't over yet, so I will hold my opinion of TT - although he put together a fantastic team last season, things have only gotten better this year (personnel wise). Injuries beyond the control or reasonable expectations of a GM cannot be held against the man.