TT Sniffing around Gonzalez??

[run pMc]

From JSO story: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806267

Under Thompson, the Packers have drafted eight players in the second round. The list include Nick Collins, Terrence Murphy, Daryn Colledge, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Jordy Nelson, Brian Brohm and Pat Lee.

That's not a bad list...Collins, DC, GJ are starters, Bjack and Nelson contributing backups, and Lee is getting playing time. If not for injury, Murphy likely would be a backup if not a starter. I think the jury's still out on Brohm and Lee.

With that in mind, I'm not surprised TT didn't want to part with a R2. Gonzalez is a great player, but I think giving up a R2 could negatively impact the long term future. I'm thinking in terms of salary cap for resigning GB's own (Jennings, etc.) and also losing the R2 pick...which many would say should be used to draft a very solid OL or DL player instead of spent on aging but still very productive TE. Lee is a decent player, and Finley might develop. I haven't really noticed Humphrey much.

The cliche of "sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make" comes to mind.

[Patler]

Speaking of piling on TT, I'm a little pissed at the JSO for having a single sentence paragraph saying that this was another example of TT being unwilling to pull the trigger on a trade for a high-visibility offensive talent.

I think TT must have done something to tick off the JS staff.

I almost started a thread this week pointing out similarly critical comments in a handful of articles over the last several weeks. Not real direct, but seemingly critical of him not keeping Williams or signing an experienced D-line reserve, letting White go for Lansanah, not signing Grant earlier, being the youngest team in the league yet again, etc. What they write is true, but it appears to me that they are going out of their way and taking every opportunity they can to criticize him. Sometimes the Thompson comments almost seem out of place in the context of the article.

[Scott Campbell]

Does it seem out of whack that we'd give up a 3rd for Tony, but only a 4th for Randy?

[boiga]

Well, Tony is a better team player who has been putting up big numbers despite being on a lousy team. Moss was a washed up prima donna that wanted special treatment, gave up on routes, and was poison in the locker room.

There was no guarantee that Moss would have turned it around in GB the same way he did for the Pats, where as we can be pretty sure that Gonz would play his heart out for us in gratitude for getting him out of KC (barring injury).

In other words, Moss was the better skilled player but a worse fit for the Packers. We were also in rebuilding mode back then, making draft picks more valuable to us.

[Bossman641]

Does it seem out of whack that we'd give up a 3rd for Tony, but only a 4th for Randy?

It's cause TT hated Favre and was trying to force him out of town. Rodgers is TT's pet project, that's why TT writes love notes to Rodgers and bakes him cookies daily.

[Patler]

Does it seem out of whack that we'd give up a 3rd for Tony, but only a 4th for Randy?

I don't think so. Moss had a lot of physical questions coming out of Oakland; some thought he had lost all his speed. There were substantial attitude questions about Moss; some thought he had basically quit playing in Oakland. With Driver and Jennings, arguably there was less need for Moss. There are not many negative things said about Gonzales.

[mraynrand]

From JSO story: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806267

Under Thompson, the Packers have drafted eight players in the second round. The list include Nick Collins, Terrence Murphy, Daryn Colledge, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Jordy Nelson, Brian Brohm and Pat Lee.

That's not a bad list...Collins, DC, GJ are starters, Bjack and Nelson contributing backups, and Lee is getting playing time. If not for injury, Murphy likely would be a backup if not a starter. I think the jury's still out on Brohm and Lee.

With that in mind, I'm not surprised TT didn't want to part with a R2. Gonzalez is a great player, but I think giving up a R2 could negatively impact the long term future. I'm thinking in terms of salary cap for resigning GB's own (Jennings, etc.) and also losing the R2 pick...which many would say should be used to draft a very solid OL or DL player instead of spent on aging but still very productive TE. Lee is a decent player, and Finley might develop. I haven't really noticed Humphrey much.

The cliche of "sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make" comes to mind.

And you never know what will come of that pick. The first #2 in 2006 was traded to NE for the Jennings and Spitz picks. He parlayed the Walker #2 into Colledge, Blackmon, Jolly, Culver and Ingle Martin. High picks are just too valuable in TT's draft system. I understand why he didn't want to go higher than a #3.

[Packnut]

Trade

No sense in making this trade cause Thompson is'nt looking to win this season. Rodgers need's game experience in order to be more consistent.

As for that list of TT picks? Just because a guy is a starter does'nt mean it was a good pick. Colledge is so inconsistent that saying he's any more than a tad below average would be nothing but bs. Jolly has vanished much like his stash of codeine. Brohm need's a ton of work. Harrell is, was and always will be a BUST. Anyone care to place a wager as to when his next injury will occur?

Nothing changes. Still the "let's make excuses" parade continues. Same people who backed Teddy's reason to fire Sherman about "injuries not being an excuse", goes out of their way to use the injury excuse now to protect Thompson.

We are 3-3 because:

A-our depth that was suppossed to be in place through the multitude of draft picks was over-estimated.

B- our first rd draft pick in th 07 draft has been of zero help at a position of need.

C-Our GM has a policy of drafting the "best available" player and not for need. This leaves holes at certain positions.

D-the "growth from with-in" mantra is still a work in progress.

And one more point. Gonzalez has been on the block for quite a while now. TT could have went to Favre after the season ended and told Brett he was going to get Gonzo. Favre never retires, Gonzo gets a full training camp in plus practice time with Favre. Rodgers does'nt get his feelings hurt and we make a SERIOUS run at the big dance. A win win for all.

The problem with some of you is that you think being average now is acceptable because like Thompson, your looking at the future. Well, playing for the future is just plain foolish. The window of chance in the NFL is small and closes quickly. There are to many variables like injuries, contract problems, how well other teams improve and just the bounce of the ball to be able to pin your hopes on 2 years from now.

Thompson had the chance to really be aggressive and make a serious run now. Favre proved beyond any doubt that our line was better with him at QBright now. With Favre and Gonzalez, this offense scores a shit-load of points forcing other teams to not rely as much on the run which is our big weakness. Ya need to look at the big picture and what could have been possible.

Yeah, I know, not Teddy's style. He likes the slow cautious way cause if you don't take risks that might back-fire, chances are ya keep your job longer. What boggles the mind is how so many of you accept this approach as being the right one without question................

[mraynrand]

Packnut, you make some good points about some draft picks not working out. You did overlook the injury aspect a bit. Finally, go check out the "TT blew it" thread and your questions about TG not coming to GB will be answered. It would have made the Packers better, but the question is: how much better, and is it worth it?

[Patler]

Re: Trade

Nothing changes. Still the "let's make excuses" parade continues. Same people who backed Teddy's reason to fire Sherman about "injuries not being an excuse", goes out of their way to use the injury excuse now to protect Thompson.

We are 3-3 because:

A-our depth that was suppossed to be in place through the multitude of draft picks was over-estimated.

B- our first rd draft pick in th 07 draft has been of zero help at a position of need.

C-Our GM has a policy of drafting the "best available" player and not for need. This leaves holes at certain positions.

D-the "growth from with-in" mantra is still a work in progress.

The problem with some of you is that you think being average now is acceptable because like Thompson, your looking at the future. Well, playing for the future is just plain foolish. The window of chance in the NFL is small and closes quickly. There are to many variables like injuries, contract problems, how well other teams improve and just the bounce of the ball to be able to pin your hopes on 2 years from now.

Yeah, I know, not Teddy's style. He likes the slow cautious way cause if you don't take risks that might back-fire, chances are ya keep your job longer. What boggles the mind is how so many of you accept this approach as being the right one without question................

I would like to discuss, so please reply with that in mind.

First, where we agree. Harrell has been no help at all, obviously. It is looking less like he ever will, but it is too early to throw in the towel on his career yet. If he does sustain another significant injury this season, TT will be faced with an interesting problem about what to do with him next season.

I disagree that our depth was overestimated. The problem has been that we have had to go too deep in some areas. No one should expect the backup to the back to play as well as the starter. The questions become are they better than other teams backups to the backup, and have you kept the right players?

At DB - Tramon Williams has performed up to expectations, perhaps even better than expected. Contrary to some opinions, I think Blackmon has done what could be expected of him. There is a reason he was #4 on the depth chart and not #1, 2 or 3. Even more so at safety, where the #4 safety has been forced to start.

At LB they have demonstrated both depth and versatility with Chiller and Poppinga splitting play somewhat, and Chiller giving the injured Hawk some plays off.

The D-line is struggling, not because replacements are bad, but again because of how deep they have had to go. Losing Jenkins was significant, but beyond that they have been without their expected reserves in Montgomery and Jason Hunter. How deep are they digging for a starting DE and reserve tackles.

On offense, the depth at WR has been demonstrated, with the injury absences of Jones and Martin at various times not even being noticed

I don't think the problems leading to 3-3 have been lack of depth as much as lack of performance from frontline players, including special teams. Except for Harrell, the D-line was healthy going into the season, yet did not play particularly well.

Finally - a question for our further discussion. What unaddressed holes in the roster would you have had him draft for, and who would you not have drafted in order to do it?

[red]

i can't fault TT for this one. i also think a #2 is too much for a 32 year old TE

i think a 3rd was exactly the right price. and honestly, i'm shocked TT offered that high of a pick

i'm impressed

[Bretsky]

Things ended as they should have. Ted worked the deal and tried to land a guy that could help the team. In the end he refused to overpay. Cool by me.

Overpay

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

he's evidently not worth a #2, nobody was willing to pay it.

you can make a good argument that he is worth it, but the evaluators look at many factors. Draft picks are valuable because you sometimes get good players for little money during their first contract years.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Things ended as they should have. Ted worked the deal and tried to land a guy that could help the team. In the end he refused to overpay. Cool by me.

Overpay

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

Not getting screwed? How so? He doesn't go into this year's draft with an extra pick..unless he trades TG in the offseason. Do you really think teams are gonna pay more for him then.

TG will have another season under his belt..another year of dings..and closer to retirement.

The GM blew it. KC isn't going anywhere. The faster they start on the reclamation project, the faster they get back to the playoffs.

[Bretsky]

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

he's evidently not worth a #2, nobody was willing to pay it.

you can make a good argument that he is worth it, but the evaluators look at many factors. Draft picks are valuable because you sometimes get good players for little money during their first contract years.

so if he garners more than a 2nd in the offseason does that mean he was worth more than a 2nd

It's all relative and he'll be worth different amounts to different teams.

KC may not be able to maximize what they can get right before the deadline with all of the teams knowing he requested a deal.

Of course draft picks are valuable; although we also know from past history they are far from guaranteed to turn into anything.