Illegal forward pass?

[Patler]

I was at the game and my buddy who is a Viking fan said that Rodgers fumbled the ball and only Rodgers can then advance that fumble once recovered. He cannot throw the ball, he has to run with it as no one else can advance his fumble.

Rodgers did recover his own fumble. Once that happened, I do not believe there are any restrictions on what he can do with it, pass, lateral, run regardless of down, location time, etc.. I believe the restriction only prohibits a team mate from recovering the fumble AND advancing it. He can recover, but not advance. He can subsequently advance the ball, so long as the fumbling player recovered the ball. For example, if the fumbler picks up the ball, runs 10 yards with it, he can then lateral to another player who continues to run.

(Maybe this is what you said in your immediately preceding post??)

[Guiness]

Actually the "forward fumble" rules in the NFL only come into play on 4th down, in the end zone, and after the 2 minute warning for a half. In all three of those scenarios, the fumbler must recover their own fumble for the ball to advance. Otherwise any offensive player can advance a fumble no matter where it occurs or where they recovered the ball from. College is a little different and has some whacked out "in the air" rule I don't fully understand for advancement of the ball by the offense I think. I had thought the fumble had to occur behind the line of scrimmage for the offense to advance it but I was mistaken.

On 4th down, in the end zone, after the 2 minute warning? WTF is that???

Sounds like a 'Raider Rule' to me.

I think like 80% of the NFL rulebook are there because that franchise devised a way to bend the rules and forced the league to put some bullshit rule on the books!

[Patler]

On 4th down, in the end zone, after the 2 minute warning? WTF is that???

Sounds like a 'Raider Rule' to me.

I think like 80% of the NFL rulebook are there because that franchise devised a way to bend the rules and forced the league to put some bullshit rule on the books!

It is the "Raider Rule". That is what it originated from, to prevent intentional forward fumbles in desperation situations.

[Guiness]

On 4th down, in the end zone, after the 2 minute warning? WTF is that???

Sounds like a 'Raider Rule' to me.

I think like 80% of the NFL rulebook are there because that franchise devised a way to bend the rules and forced the league to put some bullshit rule on the books!

It is the "Raider Rule". That is what it originated from, to prevent intentional forward fumbles in desperation situations.

I thought the that rule had more to do with the ball going out of bounds?

The 'legend' I heard was that the Raiders devised a play whereby a player would roll out, and pitch the ball 10yds upfield, out of bounds. A fumbled out of bounds goes to the team that had possession, at the spot it went out of bounds...not a bad deal.

[Noodle]

I remember the play, called back then the Holly Roller -- Stabler was about to get sacked with no time left and fumbled the ball forward, Banaszak recovered but also fumbled the ball forward at about the 10, the ball rolled to around the 5, Dave Casper kicked it in to the end zone then fell on it for a game winning TD.

Classic school-yard stuff, back when the Raiders were much more than a bunch of demented fans and a flaky old owner.

[Guiness]

Please tell me there's a youtube of that!

Anyone here ever read 'The League: The Rise and Decline of the NFL'?
Talks about some of the battles between Rozelle and Davis - kind of akin to setting off a grenade in a crowded room!

[Patler]

I remember the play, called back then the Holly Roller -- Stabler was about to get sacked with no time left and fumbled the ball forward, Banaszak recovered but also fumbled the ball forward at about the 10, the ball rolled to around the 5, Dave Casper kicked it in to the end zone then fell on it for a game winning TD.

Classic school-yard stuff, back when the Raiders were much more than a bunch of demented fans and a flaky old owner.

That's the one. I couldn't remember what they had called it, but I remembered Casper being the featured performer.

They used to like the religious names for plays, "The Holy Roller" "The Immaculate Reception" etc.

[mraynrand]

They used to like the religious names for plays, "The Holy Roller" "The Immaculate Reception" etc.

God doesn't watch as much football as he used to. There are too many choices on cable these days.

[Patler]

They used to like the religious names for plays, "The Holy Roller" "The Immaculate Reception" etc.

God doesn't watch as much football as he used to. There are too many choices on cable these days.

He became less interested when games were regularly scheduled not just on His day, but on all those other days, too.

[cpk1994]

I don't like to complain about call during a game, you win some and you lose some. Sure, the no-call on the first series of Offenssive-Pass-Interf on Rice against Williams which on the next play resulted in a TD(thats a 4 point swing) and then the questionable Illegal Contact on Al Harris when we stopped them on third down. Then the Illegal Forward Pass.

I have two Issues:

1) Why didn't MM push it more? I've seen some game where the coach actually used a challenge to prove that there was a receiver in the area or that the ball got "near" the line.......he seemed to give in and let it go.

2) If the league is going to fine players, coaches and whomever for calling out bad calls, then they sure the heck better start fining the refs themselves for blown calls. I understand that people make mistakes, but to huddle-up with other refs and arrive at the same conclusion is just silly. The league at least needs to apologize to the teams for the mistakes and clarify the ruling.

Penalties are not reviewable. Even if McCarthy found another basis to review, they can't use that to overturn a penalty. McCarthy's hands were tied. Also, they do apologize to teams, but you never hear about it becuase the NFL refuses to make those things public becuase they don't want to embarass the refs further.

[Ballboy]

I don't like to complain about call during a game, you win some and you lose some. Sure, the no-call on the first series of Offenssive-Pass-Interf on Rice against Williams which on the next play resulted in a TD(thats a 4 point swing) and then the questionable Illegal Contact on Al Harris when we stopped them on third down. Then the Illegal Forward Pass.

I have two Issues:

1) Why didn't MM push it more? I've seen some game where the coach actually used a challenge to prove that there was a receiver in the area or that the ball got "near" the line.......he seemed to give in and let it go.

2) If the league is going to fine players, coaches and whomever for calling out bad calls, then they sure the heck better start fining the refs themselves for blown calls. I understand that people make mistakes, but to huddle-up with other refs and arrive at the same conclusion is just silly. The league at least needs to apologize to the teams for the mistakes and clarify the ruling.

Penalties are not reviewable. Even if McCarthy found another basis to review, they can't use that to overturn a penalty. McCarthy's hands were tied. Also, they do apologize to teams, but you never hear about it becuase the NFL refuses to make those things public becuase they don't want to embarass the refs further.

Penalties are reviewable.....QB going or not going over line of scrimmage(it was used just this past weekend to overturn an illegal forward pass) and if the pass gets back to line of scrimmage. Even having twelve men on the field is also used!!

Your right, they don't review holding, motion and other calls such as that.

[Merlin]

Actually the "forward fumble" rules in the NFL only come into play on 4th down, in the end zone, and after the 2 minute warning for a half. In all three of those scenarios, the fumbler must recover their own fumble for the ball to advance. Otherwise any offensive player can advance a fumble no matter where it occurs or where they recovered the ball from. College is a little different and has some whacked out "in the air" rule I don't fully understand for advancement of the ball by the offense I think. I had thought the fumble had to occur behind the line of scrimmage for the offense to advance it but I was mistaken.

On 4th down, in the end zone, after the 2 minute warning? WTF is that???

Sounds like a 'Raider Rule' to me.

I think like 80% of the NFL rulebook are there because that franchise devised a way to bend the rules and forced the league to put some bullshit rule on the books!

That's exactly why the rule was put in place, at least most sites that quote it say the "Raider Rule". Personally I don't give a crap, Rodgers threw the ball away legally, the refs blew it, period. Why there is no mention of this by the NFL by today (Tuesday) is reprehensible.

[bobblehead]

The NFL answered this play today saying it was the right call. In the explanation they said that AR had "no idea" if the reciever was there or not.

Nice, now they are reading his mind...never mind that the reciever in fact was there, AR didn't know he was there so its intentional grounding. If we are going to start reading minds to make calls I might have to treat the NFL the same way I treat the NBA...I stopped watching years ago.

[ThunderDan]

The NFL answered this play today saying it was the right call. In the explanation they said that AR had "no idea" if the reciever was there or not.

Nice, now they are reading his mind...never mind that the reciever in fact was there, AR didn't know he was there so its intentional grounding. If we are going to start reading minds to make calls I might have to treat the NFL the same way I treat the NBA...I stopped watching years ago.

Using the same logic; what if Rodgers completed that ball to the TE but had "no idea" he was there? Is it still a safety? What a joke!

[ThunderDan]

The NFL answered this play today saying it was the right call. In the explanation they said that AR had "no idea" if the reciever was there or not.

Nice, now they are reading his mind...never mind that the reciever in fact was there, AR didn't know he was there so its intentional grounding. If we are going to start reading minds to make calls I might have to treat the NFL the same way I treat the NBA...I stopped watching years ago.

Shouldn't a QB know where all of his receivers should be on any given play?