HEY HO..TED MUST GO

[cpk1994]

I do agree MM puked the end of the MN game, but the last play Rodgers could have tried to make a bigger play, in my opinion. To say the loss can't be laid on AR's shoulders is BS. He didn't do shit all day. When the guy plays a poor game please call it what it was. Winners don't make excuses, and I'm sure he wouldn't. I would bet he would say there were plays to be made and he didn't make them....I have respect for Rodgers and his play. He just hasn't shown that he will take the next step. Hopefully he will, it is still early in his run!

There is a difference between a guy playing poorly when the conditions were there to play well, and a guy playing poorly when he didn't have much of a chance to play well. My feeling is that in Minnesota, Rodgers didn't have a chance to play well. He took some head snapping hits and was knocked down or sacked on half of his drop backs. Before you say he held the ball too long, I will point out that writers, coaches and players all agreed that was the case only a time or two. More often Rodgers was getting hit even before he completed his drop.

I would argue that Rodgers didn't really play that poorly, under the conditions. He avoided the killer mistake, even under immense pressure. That was one reason why the Packers still had a chance to win at the end. I'm not forgetting the play of the defense or special teams, just pointing out that Rodgers did not throw a bunch of interceptions when pressured. If he had, even the run back TDs wouldn't have helped.

If you are objective, you should acknowledge that game had the right conditions for Favre to have thrown 3 or 4 interceptions, as he did on somewhat regular occasions when under a strong rush and trying to "make a play" when behind. Rodgers was smart by keeping it close enough that others could make plays to give the Packers a chance. Maybe Favre would have won it, maybe he would have taken all chance for a win away with multiple interceptions. Hard to tell.

As for the last play, Rodgers could have gambled, maybe come up big, or maybe have eliminated even the chance for the game-winning kick. In my book, nothing wrong with putting it on the toe of Crosby, indoors for the win as they did.

Good post. The part I bolded is key. What you mentioned about Favre is also true and even more true when you consider his problems in Metrodome the first half of his career. It took Brett 6 tries before he finally won in the Metrodome and most of those times he collapsed under the pressure.

[cpk1994]

Just like when Favre threw an interception, to many fans it was never Favre's fault. The receiver screwed up, or Favre was "just trying to win", as if no other players want to win. "Trying to win" somehow made up for "silly decision" in those circumstances.

It wasn't just the fans either. Mike Sherman used those excues all the time and also used "The ball slipped out of his hands" and "Well, you know he has a broken finger." Brett himself used the "just trying to win" excuse alot as well.

[RashanGary]

Nice post, Patler.

[Gunakor]

To say the loss can't be laid on AR's shoulders is BS. He didn't do shit all day. When the guy plays a poor game please call it what it was. Winners don't make excuses, and I'm sure he wouldn't. I would bet he would say there were plays to be made and he didn't make them....I have respect for Rodgers and his play. He just hasn't shown that he will take the next step. Hopefully he will, it is still early in his run!

The OL didn't do shit all day either. The run defense didn't do shit all day. Aside from the defensive backfield, nobody really did shit all day. All Aaron Rodgers' fault, I know. It must be rough being an NFL quarterback these days...

Point I'm making is this. If Mason Crosby hits that 52 yard FG then Rodgers gets credit for his first 4th quarter buzzer beating comeback game winning drive. He HAD his team in position to win. It's not his fault the kick didn't sail through the uprights. It would have been his fault if he had not gotten into FG range in the first place. It would have been his fault if he had turned the ball over, stripping his team of an opportunity. But he didn't make any mistakes, and got his team into FG range to win it. He did his job. To say that loss falls on Aaron's shoulders is BS.

[KYPack]

Sorry, I only got this far before I had to write something. I used to love coming on this form. Many of the "originals" know what it was like here when the js board sucked, and this one was rocking. Great posts, great conversations, no putting down, no yelling, etc. etc.

I first came here the spring of the Hawk draft pick...on jso, I'd get creamed for saying we should take AJ Hawk. On here, even though some didn't agree, we had rational, adult conversations about it.

It has changed for the worse.

I still love coming here and catching up on some reading....but some of these dumb posts just make me not come back that often.

ND,

Get your butt back on here.

We need some ol' lineman to harass.

You were around in the JSO days.
This latest little storm is nothing.
As some have pointed out, Gex is "Tank-lite".

[Deputy Nutz]

I do agree MM puked the end of the MN game, but the last play Rodgers could have tried to make a bigger play, in my opinion. To say the loss can't be laid on AR's shoulders is BS. He didn't do shit all day. When the guy plays a poor game please call it what it was. Winners don't make excuses, and I'm sure he wouldn't. I would bet he would say there were plays to be made and he didn't make them....I have respect for Rodgers and his play. He just hasn't shown that he will take the next step. Hopefully he will, it is still early in his run!

There is a difference between a guy playing poorly when the conditions were there to play well, and a guy playing poorly when he didn't have much of a chance to play well. My feeling is that in Minnesota, Rodgers didn't have a chance to play well. He took some head snapping hits and was knocked down or sacked on half of his drop backs. Before you say he held the ball too long, I will point out that writers, coaches and players all agreed that was the case only a time or two. More often Rodgers was getting hit even before he completed his drop.

I would argue that Rodgers didn't really play that poorly, under the conditions. He avoided the killer mistake, even under immense pressure. That was one reason why the Packers still had a chance to win at the end. I'm not forgetting the play of the defense or special teams, just pointing out that Rodgers did not throw a bunch of interceptions when pressured. If he had, even the run back TDs wouldn't have helped.

If you are objective, you should acknowledge that game had the right conditions for Favre to have thrown 3 or 4 interceptions, as he did on somewhat regular occasions when under a strong rush and trying to "make a play" when behind. Rodgers was smart by keeping it close enough that others could make plays to give the Packers a chance. Maybe Favre would have won it, maybe he would have taken all chance for a win away with multiple interceptions. Hard to tell.

As for the last play, Rodgers could have gambled, maybe come up big, or maybe have eliminated even the chance for the game-winning kick. In my book, nothing wrong with putting it on the toe of Crosby, indoors for the win as they did.

The Minnesota game showed everything that was wrong about the Packers football team, while the Bears game showed all that was right with the Packers football team.

Who knows I am personally sick of the Favre/Rodgers/Thomspon discussion. It is just constant bickering. It is what it is.

The Minnesota game all went wrong besides the special teams and the pass defense. Rodgers played with shell shock after getting dropped several times. Most had to do with poor offensive line play, and some had to do with his lack of experience. Like all young QBs blitz pick up and pocket awareness can be a major concern.

Against the Bears he didn't get knocked down once and had a very good day. the running game exploded, and the defense was locked in all game.

[Noodle]

Sorry, I only got this far before I had to write something. I used to love coming on this form. Many of the "originals" know what it was like here when the js board sucked, and this one was rocking. Great posts, great conversations, no putting down, no yelling, etc. etc.

I first came here the spring of the Hawk draft pick...on jso, I'd get creamed for saying we should take AJ Hawk. On here, even though some didn't agree, we had rational, adult conversations about it.

It has changed for the worse.

I still love coming here and catching up on some reading....but some of these dumb posts just make me not come back that often.

ND,

Get your butt back on here.

We need some ol' lineman to harass.

You were around in the JSO days.
This latest little storm is nothing.
As some have pointed out, Gex is "Tank-lite".

ND,
Lemme echo KY -- we miss your contributions around here. Everytime there's a thread on the OL, or your mancrush Hawk, I look to see if you've said something. Lately, nada.

Don't be a drive by packerrat. Pull up a stoll and bang out some posts. Quality posting is the best antidote for sameoldtiredcrapitis.

[MOBB DEEP]

even ive tired of the redundancy around here over the past month or so

i no longer compare the two qb's but instead enjoy what each one brings to the table along with their respective team's success/performance. which is why ive NEVER understood whats SO bad about pointn out Lord Favre's progress with the jets; i do the same for grant, gj, aaron, etc....as well as killer keller, kris BEAST jenkins, thomas jones, etc...

view it as mere ENTERTAINMENT!!!

thats the most harmonious exisistence

death to the Lunatic Fringe.....

[Patler]

Rodgers played with shell shock after getting dropped several times. Most had to do with poor offensive line play, and some had to do with his lack of experience. Like all young QBs blitz pick up and pocket awareness can be a major concern.

That is sort of the off-hand comment that is easy to make when a team is dominated as the Packers were. But I disagree completely. I watched the game in its entirety twice, and have replayed plays and series many times. I saw very little evidence of any of those things in Rodgers. He took a couple horrendous hits, yet stayed right there in the pocket on the next pass, completed many and took even more hits but got the throws off, and mostly on target, too. He did not have very many bad passes, wildly off the mark because he panicked or hurried. He didn't take off running when there was not any pressure.

He completed 15 of 26 throws. Not great, but not awful either. More importantly, he avoided interceptions in spite of more pressure and physical abuse on a QB than I have seen in a long time during a Packer game. I give him a lot of credit for that. A couple interceptions and the Packers would have had no chance for a game winning attempt as they did.

He clearly made some mistakes. Getting the ball slapped out of his hand leading to the one safety was careless on his part, whether or not you agree with the call resulting in the safety. Getting caught from behind on the other safety shouldn't have happened either. That IS a play I will agree was one where he was probably too indecisive for the situation, In or near the endzone the QB has to get it away quickly or throw it away. He sensed the pressure, and was running away from it, but not soon enough and not fast enough. He could have thrown it away and it wouldn't have mattered even if he wasn't out of the tackle box, because a safety is a safety whether by being tackled or penalized. In a close game as it was, those were big plays, I will agree. But they were not killer plays, and he and the team recovered from them.

On their last scoring drive, following the Peterson fumble, Rodgers was 3 for 3, Crosby kicked the FG for a 6 point lead, and things looked pretty good. Rodgers was 2 for 2 in their last possession leading to the missed FG. So in their last two possessions, with the game on the line, after a day of constant pressure and after taking a physical pounding, Rodgers completed 5 of 5 for 42 yards.

If Crosby had made the kick, people would have talked about the courageous, controlled game that Rodgers played, keeping them in it in spite of his pass protection being in a shambles. Crosby missed, the Packers lost, so Rodgers play is seen as erratic, unaware, panicked. Only problem is that the quality of his play doesn't change just because Crosby missed the kick.

[Spaulding]

Rodgers played with shell shock after getting dropped several times. Most had to do with poor offensive line play, and some had to do with his lack of experience. Like all young QBs blitz pick up and pocket awareness can be a major concern.

That is sort of the off-hand comment that is easy to make when a team is dominated as the Packers were. But I disagree completely. I watched the game in its entirety twice, and have replayed plays and series many times. I saw very little evidence of any of those things in Rodgers. He took a couple horrendous hits, yet stayed right there in the pocket on the next pass, completed many and took even more hits but got the throws off, and mostly on target, too. He did not have very many bad passes, wildly off the mark because he panicked or hurried. He didn't take off running when there was not any pressure.

He completed 15 of 26 throws. Not great, but not awful either. More importantly, he avoided interceptions in spite of more pressure and physical abuse on a QB than I have seen in a long time during a Packer game. I give him a lot of credit for that. A couple interceptions and the Packers would have had no chance for a game winning attempt as they did.

He clearly made some mistakes. Getting the ball slapped out of his hand leading to the one safety was careless on his part, whether or not you agree with the call resulting in the safety. Getting caught from behind on the other safety shouldn't have happened either. That IS a play I will agree was one where he was probably too indecisive for the situation, In or near the endzone the QB has to get it away quickly or throw it away. He sensed the pressure, and was running away from it, but not soon enough and not fast enough. He could have thrown it away and it wouldn't have mattered even if he wasn't out of the tackle box, because a safety is a safety whether by being tackled or penalized. In a close game as it was, those were big plays, I will agree. But they were not killer plays, and he and the team recovered from them.

On their last scoring drive, following the Peterson fumble, Rodgers was 3 for 3, Crosby kicked the FG for a 6 point lead, and things looked pretty good. Rodgers was 2 for 2 in their last possession leading to the missed FG. So in their last two possessions, with the game on the line, after a day of constant pressure and after taking a physical pounding, Rodgers completed 5 of 5 for 42 yards.

If Crosby had made the kick, people would have talked about the courageous, controlled game that Rodgers played, keeping them in it in spite of his pass protection being in a shambles. Crosby missed, the Packers lost, so Rodgers play is seen as erratic, unaware, panicked. Only problem is that the quality of his play doesn't change just because Crosby missed the kick.

Patler, you're ability to avoid emotion in your posts and excellent analytical/statistical thoughts always remind me of regardless of the petty arguments that go on this forum that there is always a "voice of reason."

Whether you agree or disagree with your posts, the objectors I would tend to believe have little to argue on other than gut or personal feeling to what has been said. Not that there is anything wrong with being passionate/emotional but the last few months on this forum has seen a bit of an overkill in that regard.

More often than not I feel dumber for having read some of the ongoing threads and would like to file in small claims court for those few minutes back. Thankfully I come across excellent posts to remedy that thought.

Thanks for making this forum what it can be.

[prsnfoto]

I find it funny how when Rodgers loses games it is never his fault but whenever they lost before it was always Brett's fault. I thought I saw the other day Brett is 8-1 in regular season OT games and 0-2 in the playoffs now I could make plenty of excuses for both those playoff games and how they never should have gone to OT, but generally once you are saddled with playing OT most of the time it falls on two guys to come through the QB and the Kicker and 8-3 lifetime is pretty damn good.

Just like when Favre threw an interception, to many fans it was never Favre's fault. The receiver screwed up, or Favre was "just trying to win", as if no other players want to win. "Trying to win" somehow made up for "silly decision" in those circumstances.

In all honesty, it is hard to blame a QB for an overtime loss when he doesn't even see the field in the overtime, especially after driving his team to a late score in the 4th quarter. It is also hard to blame him when he picks up enough yardage so that the head coach backs off, thinking they are already close enough for the winning fieldgoal. It is also easy to blame the QB when he throws an ill-advised interception in overtime or at the end of the game to put the other team in position to win.

Never is a stong word the truth is a lot of INT's are not the QB's fault and some are and some should be picks on bad throws and aren't. I am not making excuses for Brett I said I could there is no doubt both of his picks in playoff OT were bad stupid throws. To lay the blame soley at the QB's feet lets people like Sharper,Sherman,Donatell,MM,Sanders,Al Harris off Scot Free. By those standards Rodgers lost the TB,Tennessee, games himself he had the turnovers that made the difference. There is no arguing he has played well most of the time but I think the honest truth is if it were not for the Defense's huge plays this team could easily be 3-7 or 4-6 Christ the Lions almost beat them until Kitna went on a INT free for all. On the flip side do I agree with Terry Bradshaw that this team is 9-1 or 10-0 with Brett , HELL NO but they might be 7-3 which would be a lock for the division right now. No one really knows for sure but it is fun to debate these things nicely like most posters do but there is always a couple of asshats that ruin every thread.(not you Patler) GO Pack! Should be a win this week not a great pass rushing team.