DEFENSE...UNABLE TO PULL STOPS

[KYPack]

Well Wist,

We may be in the same place, but arriving from different directions.

I think we have a ton of talent on that D, but not in the line. That DB group is very talented, a nice blend of experience and young skill guys.

The LB's are seviceable bunch and have good speed if Chillar is in there at SAM, with a healthy Barnett. (Mebbe Hawk at SAM, Chillar at WIL?)

The line?

I posted that one. We need guys to play and play a lot better and some new, effective guys. Our best two DLineman ain't exactly kids, with Pickett maybe at the end of the line. I think your "career year" concept rings 100% true for last years DLine. The return of a healthy, effective Cullen Jenkins has got to happen and may be too much to ask for.

For next season, Jenkins probably has to move back to his RDE job, cause we don't have anybody there now. Then, Harrell (a pipe dream perhaps,) Jolly minus the purple drank, and Pickett need some serious help in the form of new blood.

Where does the new blood come from?

I don't care, just get some serious help and get us some guys, TT.

From what I can see, Rob Marenelli will be available on the free agent DCoordinator market.

[KYPack]

Bobblehead,

Happy Thanksgiving,

You need a little oyster casserole, cheer up, Hoss!

[wist43]

Bobblehead, yes, I am very critical, as I absolutely despise the scheme - no room for creativity, far too passive up front.

I love the aggressiveness of the secondary - if corners can't bump and run, I don't want 'em. If Safeties can't rip your head off, I don't want them.

The LB's are just chase and tackle backers... and if you remember, prior to Hawk and Poppinga coming in, there was exactly zero toughness in the group - notice Paris Lenon getting his ass handed to him today???

This scheme is completely DL dependent... very tough to assemble that many good defensive linemen, and keep them healthy and in a good rotation.

Would much rather have a 3-4 where you can create pressure thru scheme, instead of just lining up and having to beat the guy across from you on every play. Yes, players have to make plays, and players have to beat the guy in front of them in a 3-4 as well... but the job becomes much easier if the OL doesn't know who is coming, and from where.

What the Packers run is very static. Easy to block if you know where everybody is going to be lined up.

And that is why I'm negative on the defense - scheme, more than anything else. I am critical of TT in player procurement as well, but not as harsh toward that as I am toward the scheme itself.

[wist43]

Well Wist,

We may be in the same place, but arriving from different directions.

I think we have a ton of talent on that D, but not in the line. That DB group is very talented, a nice blend of experience and young skill guys.

The LB's are seviceable bunch and have good speed if Chillar is in there at SAM, with a healthy Barnett. (Mebbe Hawk at SAM, Chillar at WIL?)

The line?

I posted that one. We need guys to play and play a lot better and some new, effective guys. Our best two DLineman ain't exactly kids, with Pickett maybe at the end of the line. I think your "career year" concept rings 100% true for last years DLine. The return of a healthy, effective Cullen Jenkins has got to happen and may be too much to ask for.

For next season, Jenkins probably has to move back to his RDE job, cause we don't have anybody there now. Then, Harrell (a pipe dream perhaps,) Jolly minus the purple drank, and Pickett need some serious help in the form of new blood.

Where does the new blood come from?

I don't care, just get some serious help and get us some guys, TT.

From what I can see, Rob Marenelli will be available on the free agent DCoordinator market.

I agree, that in this scheme DL is everything... and "serviceable" LB'ers just doesn't cut it in my book. I want my LB'ers to be the playermakers of my defense.

Unfortunately, I think TT is married to Sanders and this scheme. Don't expect any change next year... just 834 new draft picks. Quantity over quality

[red]

well, some guys to look for in the draft

we should be picking somewhere in the teens

DE

greg hardy
Michael Johnson
Tyson Jackson

these aren't just your pass rush DE's in the 240 pound range. these are big boys

DT's
Terrence Cody, this guy is massive and i saw a few mocks with us getting him in the middle of the first

[TennesseePackerBacker]

It would be wonderful to find a good FA D lineman, but will there be anyone out there? Most teams aren't gonna let a decent D lineman hit the open market and if they do it will cost ya a fortune to sign him. We could find somebody in a trade but that will cost us too. TT's history suggests he won't open up his wallet. So our best bet will have to be to find a couple of good ones in the draft.

Maybe the Packers are keeping all this cap space to sign Albert Haynesworth, haha what a pipe dream. That would be the best defensive free agent signing for the Packers since Reggie White.

[gbgary]

3rd and 15...

These problems start and stop with the DL.

the DL has nothing to do with playing soft-ass zone and letting receivers run free like they did in the last game. if you make the quarterback hold the ball longer (man coverage) the line will have time to get pressure. why he thought zone was the thing to do was beyond me. everyone knows our man coverage is the best in the league. the resulting pressure and close coverage has gotten the team many ints and defensive tds. this has kept the team in games and actually won some. our defense isn't perfect by any means but handicapping them by playing away from their strength is stupid.

[The Leaper]

Thompson has to get off his own thumb this offseason and spend some cash. There were impact FAs to be had...and we had the cash...but Thompson chose to sit back. You can't expect rookies to come in and improve this defense significantly next year.

[GrnBay007]

Thompson has to get off his own thumb this offseason and spend some cash. There were impact FAs to be had...and we had the cash...but Thompson chose to sit back. You can't expect rookies to come in and improve this defense significantly next year.

[Fritz]

Wist, you are one of the bitterest posters I know, but I find myself agreeing with you in terms of the defense. I don't like the scheme, but beyond that I am also bitter about this defense's lack of production.

I know Jenkins is gone, but he had a down year last year and the D still held up. Besides, if your entire defense is dependent upon one guy then you're not very good.

I thought the defense was going to be the strength of this team. As it turns out, the defensive line is competing with Derrick Frost for the title of "suckiest position group on the Green Bay Packers."

[wist43]

Fritz, luckily I'm not bitter in person, just hypercritical of my beloved Packers... I want championships

I am bitter about our inability to win more championships during the Favre era... yes, Wolfe brought him in, and we garnered one title out of it, but I see those subsequent years as failures; and, beyond that were it not for the mega-signing of Reggie White, we wouldn't have won any championships.

I can remember how excited I was about the Reggie White signing... I was home from work that day and just glued to the TV waiting for word - when I found out we had signed him I started making phone calls... telling anyone who would listen that we were going to win a Superbowl

So, I'm not a doom and gloomer when I see us heading in the right direction... what I see with this current regime is wheel spinning.

I think TT is a good talent evaluator, and a decent GM capable of filling out a competitive roster; however, he is detrimentally stubborn in his MO to the point where his inflexibility will prevent him from making the bold moves necessary to bring in those one or two guys who could put us over the top.

Beyond that, I think the schemes they run on both sides make it all the more difficult b/c the schemes they run require big time players at very expensive positions. QB, DE, DT, CB... you have to pay for those anyway, but in the schemes they run - they all have to be in place at the same time to have a shot at making a run... there is no room for the schemes to make up for shortcomings at any of those positions.

[Patler]

I am bitter about our inability to win more championships during the Favre era... yes, Wolfe brought him in, and we garnered one title out of it, but I see those subsequent years as failures;

That is why I have a hard time with the reverence paid to Wolf, and why I consider Sherman such a failure as a GM and as a coach. Favre was a young QB when they went to the Super Bowl for two years, I expected return trips. Realistically, the Packers were never really close after that. Neither Wolf nor Sherman assembled good enough rosters to take advantage of having Favre. I also think Sherman as a coach exercised too little control over Favre. Given free rein, Favre's risk taking approach squandered several playoff opportunities they had.

Wolf was good, but having one of the best QBs to play the game he managed only two Super Bowl appearances. I suspect a lot of GMs could have accomplished that with Favre.

[cpk1994]

Chillar is a puss, eh? I totally disagree with you. I think he's a good player and will go down as one of TT's best FA acquisitions (course he's only got to beat out Frank Walker), TT doesn't get many FA's.

.

Ryan Pickett and Charles Woodson contest your claim.

[KYPack]

I am bitter about our inability to win more championships during the Favre era... yes, Wolfe brought him in, and we garnered one title out of it, but I see those subsequent years as failures;

That is why I have a hard time with the reverence paid to Wolf, and why I consider Sherman such a failure as a GM and as a coach. Favre was a young QB when they went to the Super Bowl for two years, I expected return trips. Realistically, the Packers were never really close after that. Neither Wolf nor Sherman assembled good enough rosters to take advantage of having Favre. I also think Sherman as a coach exercised too little control over Favre. Given free rein, Favre's risk taking approach squandered several playoff opportunities they had.

Wolf was good, but having one of the best QBs to play the game he managed only two Super Bowl appearances. I suspect a lot of GMs could have accomplished that with Favre.

Wolf excelled when building that championship team. But he flopped on the rebuild effort. He had some terrible #1 picks and made some stupid FA blunders. Mainly failing to re-sign Craig Hentrich. Hentrich wanted a mighty 1 million dollars a season!. Wof was too stubborn to pay a punter that kind of dough and we foolishly lost the best punter in the league.

Within a couple seasons, Craig's punts help Tenn get in the SB. I need to jack this thread a little. Did anyone else notice Ryan punting for Seattle? he got to do it enough. He has turned it around. Getting cut really sobered that boy up.

[bobblehead]

Thompson has to get off his own thumb this offseason and spend some cash. There were impact FAs to be had...and we had the cash...but Thompson chose to sit back. You can't expect rookies to come in and improve this defense significantly next year.

Like who?? We could have traded 3 drafts for Allen and then paid him keys to the city, but other than that I saw no real quality DL...which is why williams got so fucking much money.