"AS FROST FLAILS, RYAN HITS STRIDE"

[Partial]

Mike Stock, the Packers' third-year special teams coach, said he could not recall if Ryan ever asked him about working with a specialist.

"But let me say this about that, and not about him (Zauner)," Stock said at midweek. "I don't believe in those things, and I'll tell you why. One voice is the most important thing when you're coaching a team or a player. You can't have two different voices, especially long distance."

Former Packers kicker Dave Rayner used to work a portion of the off-season with Eddie Murray. Because Murray kicked successfully in the NFL, Stock said that was worthwhile.

Thats really hypocritical.

[Bretsky]

Is there really any proof out there Stock compained for Frost ?

I'm of the view TT wanted to upgrade from Ryan and he had his scouts studying the punters that might get cut and when Frost became available TT and his scouts made that call.

Plenty of reasons to dislike Stock; I don't buy that he had that much to do with him becoming a Packer. That's on our scouting Dept.

[RashanGary]

I was under the impression that Stock wanted Frost. Nobody ever said why it happened, but when it happened I remember Stock talking about Frost glowingly and almost throwing Ryan under the bus. I just got the impression that Stock wanted Ryan gone and reading this article makes that seem even more probable.

I agree with bobblehead that Stock sounded like a real micromanaging prick. At the end of the day I think hte GM is where the buck stops, but these coaches are looking shittier and shittier with every passing week.

[prsnfoto]

Is there really any proof out there Stock compained for Frost ?

I'm of the view TT wanted to upgrade from Ryan and he had his scouts studying the punters that might get cut and when Frost became available TT and his scouts made that call.

Plenty of reasons to dislike Stock; I don't buy that he had that much to do with him becoming a Packer. That's on our scouting Dept.

And if he did then those clamouring for Stock's firing need to be on board with firing the Turtle/boy lover if he is letting his coaches make personal moves.

[Spaulding]

Is there really any proof out there Stock compained for Frost ?

I'm of the view TT wanted to upgrade from Ryan and he had his scouts studying the punters that might get cut and when Frost became available TT and his scouts made that call.

Plenty of reasons to dislike Stock; I don't buy that he had that much to do with him becoming a Packer. That's on our scouting Dept.

And if he did then those clamouring for Stock's firing need to be on board with firing the Turtle/boy lover if he is letting his coaches make personal moves.

Turtle/boy lover? You mean Thompson? If so I don't see a correlation. The GM is responsible for the players versus the head coach, the coaching staff.

[KYPack]

Is there really any proof out there Stock compained for Frost ?

I'm of the view TT wanted to upgrade from Ryan and he had his scouts studying the punters that might get cut and when Frost became available TT and his scouts made that call.

Plenty of reasons to dislike Stock; I don't buy that he had that much to do with him becoming a Packer. That's on our scouting Dept.

Yer right on one hand, B. There is no documented proof that Stock ordered the hit on Jon Ryan.

OTOH,
But he did.

-Stock was pissed at Ryan on a lot of levels
- they switched Ryan from a 3 step kicker to a two stepper. Because you have to be a two step in the NFL. Ryan would revert sometimes when he would get rattled or have a lot of time. Each time Ryan 3 stepped, Stock would get pissed.
-Ryan would also hit the odd shank and way too many liners
- sometimes, when Stock's precious cover team would be in perfect position, Ryan would hit a 65-70 yarder. Fans love that shit, but ST coaches do a burn when the cover boys can't do their job
- Ryan was admittedly working with an outside kicking tutor (Zauner). The article spells out that Stock was pissed about that and considers it a negative factor.
-Stock worked with Frost in a couple spots and considered him a good soldier and reliable kicker

To me, that adds up to Mr Stock killing Jon Ryan in the office with a fountain pen when Frost became available.

Ryan has 20 punts downed inside the 20. Frost has 8. Frost is one of the NFL's worst punters

[KYPack]

DP

[Fritz]

There must be a serious shortage if there's no one out there better than frost. How about Louie Aguilar? Maybe he can get away from his brother in law's auto body shop long enough to punt for a few games. What the heck.

[MJZiggy]

Is Jan Stenerud available?

[Rastak]

Is Jan Stenerud available?

That dude could kick....and for a long damn time.

[MJZiggy]

I'm thinking with the way things look, he could probably still outkick Frost's last performance;.

[Cheesehead Craig]

"We're trying to make this right for this situation," Stock said. "He needs to wake up. I think he not only has the leg, he has the fundamentals. What he has to do is cut it loose."

i think we need to cut stock loose after reading that

what an ass

+1

Stock sounded like the blowhard that when one would question his methods he would just point to the resume about how long he's been doing this. He's one of the guys that thinks his age and experience are the only things that matter, not actual results.

[Patler]

So, how long has McGinn been waiting to publish this article? I have been casually following both punters since the start of the season, and except for gross average, Frost has been doing as well or better than Ryan until the last two weeks. Ryan has had three good games since 11/16, especially on his "inside the 20" performance, and Frost has had two really bad ones. But consider this, after the first 9 games of the season:

Ryan -36.9 net average, 7 inside the 20, 9 touchbacks
Frost - 37.2 net average, 7 inside the 20, 5 touchbacks.

After 9 games, Frost had a better net, and a better ratio of kicks inside the 20 to touchbacks.

Not too long ago there were articles in Seattle questioning why Plackermaier was dumped after one game in favor of Ryan, who was no better. I suspect by the end of the year, Ryan's numbers will look better, with Frost having 3 games at Lambeau and one at Soldier field ahead of him. Maybe 5 years from now dumping Ryan will look really dumb, but so far it has not been a significant thing.

[Noodle]

Patler, I'm hoping you're right that Frost gets it together, but I fear for him. I'm afraid he's not being able to forget his bad kicks.

Watch for this -- even if he hits the first one well, if another goes in the tank, he won't recover the rest of the game.

Dude is in need of a hypnotist, or maybe he just needs to hang with the DBs or some baseball closers to learn the art of instant memory cleansing.

Seriously.

[Patler]

Patler, I'm hoping you're right that Frost gets it together, but I fear for him. I'm afraid he's not being able to forget his bad kicks.

Watch for this -- even if he hits the first one well, if another goes in the tank, he won't recover the rest of the game.

Dude is in need of a hypnotist, or maybe he just needs to hang with the DBs or some baseball closers to learn the art of instant memory cleansing.

When did I say that Frost will get it together? I doubt he will. He has 5 games left for the Packers, and next year someone else will be punting for the Packers. My point was that I have no confidence that Ryan is the long-term answer in Seattle either. I think it is just as likely that 5 years from now Ryan will be with his 3rd or 4th team. Both Frost and Ryan might be distant memories of no significance.