Rodgers Is Carrying This Team

[PackerBlues]

Rogers is carrying the Packers? You talkin about the same Packers who are in 3rd place in the NFC North?

Prior to the start of this season, most in these forums argued that there would be no drop off in talent after replacing Favre with Rogers.

In fact, most in these forums claimed that the team would only be better with all of the "improvements" that Thompson made in the off-season.

Looks to me, like most in these forums were wrong! Yes, Rogers does have some nice stats this season, all except the most important stat of them all, the number of wins. But hey, at least Rogers managed to carry the team above the Lions in that stat.

[sharpe1027]

Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

If you generalize to turning a franchise around, I generally agree. But you haven't convinced me that the difference this year is Favre.

Sure Jordan made other players better, he was on the court with them. He drew the attention of the entire other team's defense and distributed the ball to Pippen and others to give them easy scores. Similarly, Favre made his WRs and OL better with his play. His laser strikes between defenders and ability to feel the pressure were legendary. Maybe I just missed all the times he lined up at middle linebacker?

Quite frankly, to suggest that the defense and special teams failures are due to the absence of Favre tells me that you don't understand sports.

[dissident94]

Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

If you generalize to turning a franchise around, I generally agree. But you haven't convinced me that the difference this year is Favre.

Sure Jordan made other players better, he was on the court with them. He drew the attention of the entire other team's defense and distributed the ball to Pippen and others to give them easy scores. Similarly, Favre made his WRs and OL better with his play. His laser strikes between defenders and ability to feel the pressure were legendary. Maybe I just missed all the times he lined up at middle linebacker?

Quite frankly, to suggest that the defense and special teams failures are due to the absence of Favre tells me that you don't understand sports.

Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

[Ballboy]

This post kinda goes with what I was feeling watching Rodgers yesterday. I would disagree with the heading, I DON't think he carries this team. At this point, he doesn't have "it" to be that special player. He is, at least at this point a GAME MANAGER. He will not make the big mistake, and he will not make that "WOW" player on a regular basis. He uses the tools he has been given, and uses them VERY well, which is why his stats are what they are.

Can he be that "it" player.......sure, i guess, can't anyone?

[PackerBlues]

Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

If you generalize to turning a franchise around, I generally agree. But you haven't convinced me that the difference this year is Favre.

Sure Jordan made other players better, he was on the court with them. He drew the attention of the entire other team's defense and distributed the ball to Pippen and others to give them easy scores. Similarly, Favre made his WRs and OL better with his play. His laser strikes between defenders and ability to feel the pressure were legendary. Maybe I just missed all the times he lined up at middle linebacker?

Quite frankly, to suggest that the defense and special teams failures are due to the absence of Favre tells me that you don't understand sports.

Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

Excellent post Dissident94!!!!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not a big believer in QBs making their defenses better. If they did, then Peyton Manning wouldn't have had a below average defense almost every year of his career. Favre didn't make the 1996 defense great in practice--just like he didn't make the 2004 defense horrible.

[sharpe1027]

Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

You can always find quotes like these. Notice how they never show the question that prompted the quote? Leading questions can get just about any quote a reporter wants. What do you expect a player or coach to say when a reporter asks them if Favre helps them, defense or otherwise? I expect them to come up with some reason that he does. What do you expect?

Our pass coverage is the best it has been since I can remember (except for Brees and Co.). Using your logic it would seem that the improvement in our coverage would suggest that Rodgers is better than Favre. I find that very unlikely.

So the logic must be that the Packer's defense sucks this year against the run because Favre isn't there to testing them with the pass? I guess that the pass rush is non-existant because Favre isn't testing it in practice? The Packer's special teams suck this year because Favre isn't coaxing the most out of them?

I just don't see Favre as responsible for our poor defense and ST. If I did, I would be hypocritical because I defended Favre in the past by blaming our defense and special teams for losses. Do you think that it was Favre's fault when our defense played poorly several years ago? Doubtful. Favre shouldn't get blamed for poor defense and he shouldn't get credit for good defense.

[Bossman641]

Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

You can always find quotes like these. Notice how they never show the question that prompted the quote? Leading questions can get just about any quote a reporter wants. What do you expect a player or coach to say when a reporter asks them if Favre helps them, defense or otherwise? I expect them to come up with some reason that he does. What do you expect?

Our pass coverage is the best it has been since I can remember (except for Brees and Co.). Using your logic it would seem that the improvement in our coverage would suggest that Rodgers is better than Favre. I find that very unlikely.

So the logic must be that the Packer's defense sucks this year against the run because Favre isn't there to testing them with the pass? I guess that the pass rush is non-existant because Favre isn't testing it in practice? The Packer's special teams suck this year because Favre isn't coaxing the most out of them?

I just don't see Favre as responsible for our poor defense and ST. If I did, I would be hypocritical because I defended Favre in the past by blaming our defense and special teams for losses. Do you think that it was Favre's fault when our defense played poorly several years ago? Doubtful. Favre shouldn't get blamed for poor defense and he shouldn't get credit for good defense.

Spot on. I'm not doubting Favre pumping up the OL or RB's, but he has nothing to do with getting the ST and defense to play better. I'm sure the DB's might have improved a little just by playing against him and knowing that the guy you are guarding could get the ball at any time and that you could never let up, but that is it.

[dissident94]

Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

You can always find quotes like these. Notice how they never show the question that prompted the quote? Leading questions can get just about any quote a reporter wants. What do you expect a player or coach to say when a reporter asks them if Favre helps them, defense or otherwise? I expect them to come up with some reason that he does. What do you expect?

Our pass coverage is the best it has been since I can remember (except for Brees and Co.). Using your logic it would seem that the improvement in our coverage would suggest that Rodgers is better than Favre. I find that very unlikely.

So the logic must be that the Packer's defense sucks this year against the run because Favre isn't there to testing them with the pass? I guess that the pass rush is non-existant because Favre isn't testing it in practice? The Packer's special teams suck this year because Favre isn't coaxing the most out of them?

I just don't see Favre as responsible for our poor defense and ST. If I did, I would be hypocritical because I defended Favre in the past by blaming our defense and special teams for losses. Do you think that it was Favre's fault when our defense played poorly several years ago? Doubtful. Favre shouldn't get blamed for poor defense and he shouldn't get credit for good defense.

Good points.

[sharpe1027]

This post kinda goes with what I was feeling watching Rodgers yesterday. I would disagree with the heading, I DON't think he carries this team. At this point, he doesn't have "it" to be that special player. He is, at least at this point a GAME MANAGER. He will not make the big mistake, and he will not make that "WOW" player on a regular basis. He uses the tools he has been given, and uses them VERY well, which is why his stats are what they are.

Can he be that "it" player.......sure, i guess, can't anyone?

I'm not sure what constitutes a WOW play, but your description of Rodgers sounds an awful lot like Montana. Montana didn't make many mistakes and got the ball to his WRs so that they could make plays. They always had sick YAC numbers. Rodgers is no Montana, but Montana had possibly the greatest "it" factor of any QB and he did it mostly by making solid, not particularly incredible, throws.

The biggest problem I have with Rodgers is that he has had some stretches where he is off and is consitently missing his WRS. But I do I like how he is able to come back the next series and hit on several straight passes.

I don't really know what other people think "carrying the team" means. He isn't winning, so he's not really carrying it anywhere significant. For what it is worth, I do think he is doing his part better than necessary to win games.

[cheesner]

I don't think it is a stretch to say that a leader on one side of the ball can inspire the players on the other side of the ball. I see Defensive players coming off the field firing up the Offense all the time.

The impact may be more than just during game day also. A good team leader will inspire a team to practice harder, do more film study, etc.

That being said, I don't think Favre had that much impact on the Packers anymore. I think the change of scenery has helped him, but his stature in the locker room was not what most people think it was.

[dissident94]

Look at this form tackle. He would be an upgrade over our Lbs

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/B_Favre_070923_gallery_600.jpg

[Deputy Nutz]

Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window.

Loosing the whole identity of the franchise? Maybe if you were born in 1992.

The difference between this year and last year begins and ends with the defense and the special teams. I don't buy your argument that Favre's presence caused the entire defense and special teams to play better. That Favre worked magic by raising an average football team to greatness by improving their defense and special teams using as series of ass snaps with a towel in the locker room and by making fart jokes.

Other teams had to game plan around Favre. Regardless of his age, Favre was still an opposing team's number one priority. Stop Favre, stop the Packers offense.

What about the running game? You mention special teams and defense, but what about the fact that our running game is just an added bonus when it is working. Nothing to rely on.

By the way, thanks for taking one sentence in my whole post and blow it out of proportion. Really can't say anything around here anymore without it flaming up the entire thread.

[sharpe1027]

Other teams had to game plan around Favre. Regardless of his age, Favre was still an opposing team's number one priority. Stop Favre, stop the Packers offense.

What about the running game? You mention special teams and defense, but what about the fact that our running game is just an added bonus when it is working. Nothing to rely on.

By the way, thanks for taking one sentence in my whole post and blow it out of proportion. Really can't say anything around here anymore without it flaming up the entire thread.

Favre likely helped the running game. When Rodgers is throwing as much as he is, he is also likely helping the running game. We can get into a pissing match about who helps out more, but this year's problem begins and ends with the Defense, IMO.

I was disagreeing with one of your statements and wanted to discuss it. I don't find it very overly useful to write a lot of posts that just say, yeah I agree with you. I apologize if that comes across in a negative way. I thought the rest of your post made sense. Can we kiss and makeup now?

[cheesner]

Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window.

Loosing the whole identity of the franchise? Maybe if you were born in 1992.

The difference between this year and last year begins and ends with the defense and the special teams. I don't buy your argument that Favre's presence caused the entire defense and special teams to play better. That Favre worked magic by raising an average football team to greatness by improving their defense and special teams using as series of ass snaps with a towel in the locker room and by making fart jokes.

Other teams had to game plan around Favre. Regardless of his age, Favre was still an opposing team's number one priority. Stop Favre, stop the Packers offense.

What about the running game? You mention special teams and defense, but what about the fact that our running game is just an added bonus when it is working. Nothing to rely on.

By the way, thanks for taking one sentence in my whole post and blow it out of proportion. Really can't say anything around here anymore without it flaming up the entire thread.

Favre won games for us and he lost games for us. I think both he and AR are well-above average QBs that win by different playing styles. It is unfair to look at a game and say that if BF was in there at the end, we would have won. I saw too many games where BF played very poorly. We may have never been in a position to win the game had he been playing.

I look at it like this: AR is great because he is a player who plays consistently at a very high level. At this point, I am not sure he can win a game by 'himself'.

BF is great because he is a dynamic playmaker. He can win games on his 'own' with his abilities. He, however, is sometimes not in the game and throws a ridiculous pass. BF's inconsistencies cost us games.

Both great players. Both have great qualities and some liabilities. I doubt having AR now rather than BF has much impact on the Packers at this point.