NFL Suspends 6 for Starcaps

[Pacopete4]

Should work out better for the Packers if they were suspended the first four game of next season anyway as Harv pointed out.

Two things, I'd say it's 50-50 they ever serve a suspension. Second thing is, it works out 100x better for Minnesota to have it be the first 4 games. They'd have all offseason and all camp to get a plan in place for those first 4 games.

what sort of plan can u possibly have for missing 2 of the best DT's in the game for the first 4 games of the season? It hurts Ras.. trust me as u will be 1 and done this post season if u even get in

For one thing you manage your roster based on the fact. In addition, you schedule reps all camp knowing ahead of time what the situation will be.

WAY better than end of year.

I guess I just dont buy the 100X better statement.. those 2 are beasts and theres no way to replace them in a game plan.. teams will bury ur ass up the middle the first 4 games of the season next year and douche boy Allen probably wont get a sniff of the QB because people will be keying on him instead of those 2 studs..

but ur probably right.. those cheaters will probably get off clean

[Rastak]

I think you are missing the point entirely. We are not discussing if it's good or bad to get suspended, we are discussing the relative merits of the timing. Or perhaps I'm missing your point here I think.

[Pacopete4]

I think you are missing the point entirely. We are not discussing if it's good or bad to get suspended, we are discussing the relative merits of the timing. Or perhaps I'm missing your point here I think.

well if its a timing thing we're discussing.. do you think ur team woulda been better off sneakin into the playoffs this season without them and gaining them in the post season or starting next season weak and waiting til week 5 for them to be back when in all seriousness.. ur team will most likely have a better chance to win next season because ur QB this season is a joke

[Rastak]

I think it would be best by far at the beginning of the season so roster layout and reps can be determined with the knowledge that you've got a pair of guys missing for the first 4. McKinnie got suspended for the first 4 and they gave his replacement lots of reps leading up to the opener.

[Pacopete4]

agree, to disagree...


i just thought they coulda went 2-2, been in the playoffs, and been at full strength this year and next... but i think those guys are selfish and dont want to see themselves get no paycheck... they arent really thinking team IMO

[Rastak]

agree, to disagree...


i just thought they coulda went 2-2, been in the playoffs, and been at full strength this year and next... but i think those guys are selfish and dont want to see themselves get no paycheck... they arent really thinking team IMO

Yea, I would be too if someone I thought acted in bad faith was gonna screw me out of a million bucks. That's what Phat Pat stands to lose. A million bucks.


You do realize this is their job right? Would take a 25% fine to your yearly income if you thought it unfair just to help out the company? Highly unlikely.

[denverYooper]

I told you Old Judge Magnuson from St. Paul Minnesota knew what he was doing. He's getting some high fives in the Hamelin campus steam room for this bit of work.

[Rastak]

I can hear him now....


"This could take a while boys".

[Pacopete4]

agree, to disagree...


i just thought they coulda went 2-2, been in the playoffs, and been at full strength this year and next... but i think those guys are selfish and dont want to see themselves get no paycheck... they arent really thinking team IMO

Yea, I would be too if someone I thought acted in bad faith was gonna screw me out of a million bucks. That's what Phat Pat stands to lose. A million bucks.


You do realize this is their job right? Would take a 25% fine to your yearly income if you thought it unfair just to help out the company? Highly unlikely.

if I got caught cheating I'd probably be the bigger man (no pun intended) and say I was wrong and I made a mistake... I mean they did sign the contract right? On any other job they'd be fired for breaking the rules... just because they play in the NFL doesnt put them above the rest of us... rules are rules..

[denverYooper]

Yea, I would be too if someone I thought acted in bad faith was gonna screw me out of a million bucks. That's what Phat Pat stands to lose. A million bucks.

That bad faith line is just something they're using to deny personal accountability. Personally, I think they're probably just probably dumb as rocks and can use their money and connections to cover up their own lack of intelligence.

Every one of 'em needs to be suspended. Gravy Jackson included. I don't care if it's now or next year. Whatever. Grow up and face the consequences.

[Freak Out]

The NFL can always appeal it or ask for it to be moved to another court if they think this Sven loving bastard is trying to extend the Vikings season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hearing scheduled for later in December....from the Red Star:

Since the season is over for us, I'm hoping they'll eventually get suspended next year.

[denverYooper]

The Vikings have taken upon themselves to punish the team: it looks like Tavaris is starting on Sunday.

[Rastak]

Yea, I would be too if someone I thought acted in bad faith was gonna screw me out of a million bucks. That's what Phat Pat stands to lose. A million bucks.

That bad faith line is just something they're using to deny personal accountability. Personally, I think they're probably just probably dumb as rocks and can use their money and connections to cover up their own lack of intelligence.

Every one of 'em needs to be suspended. Gravy Jackson included. I don't care if it's now or next year. Whatever. Grow up and face the consequences.

I think that drug is prescription only for a reason. I think the NFL is going to live to regret the way they handled it in 2006, when they let the first player off scot free and then kept quiet (other than banning the maker from being endorsed by NFL players).....Nice.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/35993969.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiU9PmP:QiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU

Tennessee lab found Bumetanide for athlete in 2007

By TERESA M. WALKER , Associated Press

Last update: December 11, 2008 - 4:47 PM

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A drug-testing lab in Tennessee confirmed more than a year ago that StarCaps, the over-the-counter weight-loss pill at the center of five NFL player suspensions, contained the banned diuretic Bumetanide, and the toxicologist in charge said athletes using it put themselves at risk of more than just a positive drug test.

"Bumetanide is a potent diuretic for an athlete or someone in a situation where they might become dehydrated," David Black told The Associated Press. "They'd be taking a diuretic without the knowledge of it. That could lead to serious health considerations. That could lead to electrolyte abnormalities, cardiovascular collapse, cardiac arrhythmias, heart attack, stroke and death."

Black, who helped set up and coordinate the NFL's original steroid testing program with then-commissioner Pete Rozelle in the late 1980s, tested StarCaps in 2007 at the request of a professional athlete who tested positive for it. Black would not identify the player.

"It took us a couple of Ph.Ds and a $300,000 piece of equipment to verify that Bumetanide was contained in StarCaps," he said. "How is somebody supposed to know buying it off the shelf or off the Internet what it really contains? We spent an enormous amount of resources trying to understand this product."

Black credited the World Anti-Doping Agency with first confirming Bumetanide was in StarCaps and reporting those findings in the Journal of Analytical Toxicology in the November/December 2007 issue.

The problem? Athletes likely don't read such journals.

The demand for that kind of information has business booming for Black's company, Aegis Sciences Corp, located around the corner from the Tennessee Titans' headquarters in a Nashville business park.
It started in 1986 as a sports doping lab following a steroids scandal on the football team had Vanderbilt University wanting to test all its athletes. The toxicologist didn't want to leave town when the lab closed, so he took it private in 1990 and expanded testing for doctors tracking if patients take their pain medication, employers protecting themselves from employees using drugs, forensic work and sports.

Black estimates he has helped exonerate more than 50 athletes including Olympic sprinter Butch Reynolds in the early 1990s, and his lab tests for about 80 Division I-A universities and NASCAR. His work with the NFL ended in 1990 when then-commissioner Paul Tagliabue moved testing to a lab approved by the International Olympic Committee and named Dr. John Lombardo as the league's adviser on steroids.

Business is so good Black can't meet the demand, despite expanding into a 35,000-square foot building this summer. He has 130 employees, including 65 drug testers, running an average of 3,000 tests each week with fees ranging from as low as $30 to $3,000 per test. He said he expects business to expand by up to 50 percent next year despite the economy.

With researchers developing new medicines daily to treat diseases, Black said there's always something new for athletes trying to find an edge to make themselves better.

"So we always will be one step behind," Black said of the cheaters.

Black confirmed his lab was involved before the news broke in October that up to eight NFL players had tested positive. But he said he could not discuss the StarCaps cases directly or in any detail because of his lab's involvement with NFL players in Bumetanide-related issues.

Kevin Williams and Pat Williams of the Minnesota Vikings and Charles Grant, Deuce McAllister and Will Smith of the New Orleans Saints were suspended last week for four games each.

The five players tested positive in training camp in July and August for the banned diuretic Bumetanide, which can be used as a masking agent for steroids. Diuretics are also used to quickly shed weight. The drug was in the dietary supplement StarCaps even though the label did not list the diuretic as an ingredient.

"It's not there by accident," Black said.

A federal judge last Friday blocked the NFL from suspending the players for violating the league's anti-doping policy while he studies the arguments.The key issue in the case before the federal judge is whether the NFL had any specific obligation to notify players and the union that it had known since at least 2006 that the weight-loss supplement contained the banned diuretic. The NFL, which added StarCaps to its list of prohibited dietary supplement companies in December 2006, says the burden is on players to know what's going into their bodies.

The union had claimed Lombardo, in consultation with the league's attorneys, withheld critical information on StarCaps containing the banned diuretic.

NFL attorney Dan Nash argued Lombardo had made a professional decision to warn players in general about diuretics rather than specifically about StarCaps.

Atlanta's Grady Jackson, identified in media reports as a player who also tested positive for Bumetanide, filed suit against StarCaps in Alameda County Superior Court in California last month, seeking restitution for any lost salary and damages for "false advertising and unfair business practices."

[Rastak]

Hearing scheduled for later in December....from the Red Star:

Since the season is over for us, I'm hoping they'll eventually get suspended next year.

I hope John Jolly gets suspended next year....


Now that wasn't nice, was it!




Vikes will probably play Green Bay in week 5!