Are most of the Packers coaches simply not very good???

[Patler]

When this staff was put together I complained bitterly (were we at JSO then?) that I did not like it because almost all came from mediocre backgrounds. They had been on staff after staff of teams that were not very successful. I even started a thread in which I had compiled the won-loss record of each coach. Wolf had said it was important to have a lot of coaches who knew success. This staff was lacking in those types.

Are these guys simply bad teachers? We have seen all of the following:
Too many penalties last year and this year. Is it bad coaching?
All but a few of the young guys developing rather slowly. Is it bad coaching?
Admitted mistakes in pre-snap alignments resulting in huge plays. Is it bad coaching?
Continual mistakes in "communication". Is it bad coaching?
Wrong player enters the game for an injured player. Is it bad coaching?
Not all players reading and reacting the same to given situations. Is it bad coaching?

Do the Packers have too many coaches with backgrounds like Schottenheimer? Very little proven success (in terms of winning) at what they do?

[prsnfoto]

Re: Are most of the Packers coaches simply not very good???

When this staff was put together I complained bitterly (were we at JSO then?) that I did not like it because almost all came from mediocre backgrounds. They had been on staff after staff of teams that were not very successful. I even started a thread in which I had compiled the won-loss record of each coach. Wolf had said it was important to have a lot of coaches who knew success. This staff was lacking in those types.

Are these guys simply bad teachers? We have seen all of the following:
Too many penalties last year and this year. Is it bad coaching?
All but a few of the young guys developing rather slowly. Is it bad coaching?
Admitted mistakes in pre-snap alignments resulting in huge plays. Is it bad coaching?
Continual mistakes in "communication". Is it bad coaching?
Wrong player enters the game for an injured player. Is it bad coaching?
Not all players reading and reacting the same to given situations. Is it bad coaching?

Do the Packers have too many coaches with backgrounds like Schottenheimer? Very little proven success (in terms of winning) at what they do?

In a word YES

Some food for thought Ray Rhodes was fired for going 8-8 and I hated people for thinking it was racist, he was a bad head coach. This year has been much worse than what Ray did in terms of a failure were those who thought it was racially motivated right? or do the Packers simply have lower standards now?

[Bossman641]

Re: Are most of the Packers coaches simply not very good???

When this staff was put together I complained bitterly (were we at JSO then?) that I did not like it because almost all came from mediocre backgrounds. They had been on staff after staff of teams that were not very successful. I even started a thread in which I had compiled the won-loss record of each coach. Wolf had said it was important to have a lot of coaches who knew success. This staff was lacking in those types.

Are these guys simply bad teachers? We have seen all of the following:
Too many penalties last year and this year. Is it bad coaching?
All but a few of the young guys developing rather slowly. Is it bad coaching?
Admitted mistakes in pre-snap alignments resulting in huge plays. Is it bad coaching?
Continual mistakes in "communication". Is it bad coaching?
Wrong player enters the game for an injured player. Is it bad coaching?
Not all players reading and reacting the same to given situations. Is it bad coaching?

Do the Packers have too many coaches with backgrounds like Schottenheimer? Very little proven success (in terms of winning) at what they do?

In a word YES

Some food for thought Ray Rhodes was fired for going 8-8 and I hated people for thinking it was racist, he was a bad head coach. This year has been much worse than what Ray did in terms of a failure were those who thought it was racially motivated right? or do the Packers simply have lower standards now?

MM has more of a leash because of the 13-3 last year and NFCCG appearance last year. That, combined with the fact that this team is beat up, buys him more time. Now, if we struggle next year as well then he is fair game.

[sheepshead]

Re: Are most of the Packers coaches simply not very good???

When this staff was put together I complained bitterly (were we at JSO then?) that I did not like it because almost all came from mediocre backgrounds. They had been on staff after staff of teams that were not very successful. I even started a thread in which I had compiled the won-loss record of each coach. Wolf had said it was important to have a lot of coaches who knew success. This staff was lacking in those types.

Are these guys simply bad teachers? We have seen all of the following:
Too many penalties last year and this year. Is it bad coaching?
All but a few of the young guys developing rather slowly. Is it bad coaching?
Admitted mistakes in pre-snap alignments resulting in huge plays. Is it bad coaching?
Continual mistakes in "communication". Is it bad coaching?
Wrong player enters the game for an injured player. Is it bad coaching?
Not all players reading and reacting the same to given situations. Is it bad coaching?

Do the Packers have too many coaches with backgrounds like Schottenheimer? Very little proven success (in terms of winning) at what they do?

While it may seem unfair to flat out and say YES to all of these. In the real world of billion dollar football teams and 7 figure salaries...YES to all of the above. Some serious changes need to happen. Not necessarily a blood bath, but some changes non the less.

[prsnfoto]

But that is why it is a bigger collapse to go from 13 wins to 6-7 is losing control of your team or your boss giving no talent to work with or both. Good news if any of you want to go to a Packer game tickets will be virtually free for the Lions game two of my buddies went this week and paid $20 a ticket for middle high endzone seats the locals are not impressed with the TT regime this year it has really hurt their pocketbooks course they got rich last year.

[Patler]

Re: Are most of the Packers coaches simply not very good???

Some food for thought Ray Rhodes was fired for going 8-8 and I hated people for thinking it was racist, he was a bad head coach. This year has been much worse than what Ray did in terms of a failure were those who thought it was racially motivated right? or do the Packers simply have lower standards now?

Wolf and others said the Rhodes firing was due to the fact that he had no control over the team and staff. He was not exercising authority. He was not leading. He was simply one of the guys.

I don't see that as being a problem with McCarthy.

I do expect to see a shake-up of sorts in the coaching staff. Unless there is a huge turnaround in the last three weeks, Sanders is probably gone. If the DC leaves, you can expect some other changes along with it on the defensive side of the ball.

Stock should be done. The roster is filled with strong ST type players. They even talked at the start of the year of being in the position that very good ST player would be inactive, they had so many. The punter was part of the problem, but both kickoff teams have varied between average and poor, especially the coverage team. Stock will pay for that.

I think the O-line needs better coaching, even if they stay primarily a zone team. Their performance is just too inconsistent.

[swede]

Affirmative PatRat, and I remember your early observations regarding the new staff and its lack of winning pedigree.

Players are dumped when they don't do their jobs. The coaches have had their turn to teach, motivate, scheme, adjust and have the product evaluated. If MM fires no one in the off-season then his own job goes on the line starting week one next year.

[Bretsky]

Re: Are most of the Packers coaches simply not very good???

When this staff was put together I complained bitterly (were we at JSO then?) that I did not like it because almost all came from mediocre backgrounds. They had been on staff after staff of teams that were not very successful. I even started a thread in which I had compiled the won-loss record of each coach. Wolf had said it was important to have a lot of coaches who knew success. This staff was lacking in those types.

Are these guys simply bad teachers? We have seen all of the following:
Too many penalties last year and this year. Is it bad coaching?
All but a few of the young guys developing rather slowly. Is it bad coaching?
Admitted mistakes in pre-snap alignments resulting in huge plays. Is it bad coaching?
Continual mistakes in "communication". Is it bad coaching?
Wrong player enters the game for an injured player. Is it bad coaching?
Not all players reading and reacting the same to given situations. Is it bad coaching?

Do the Packers have too many coaches with backgrounds like Schottenheimer? Very little proven success (in terms of winning) at what they do?

How many coaches under MM have been hired elsewhere ? Just Jags, I think, who I kind of liked.

Sanders....gosh....anybody who watched the 2006 season could easily derive he's sub par

As SAD as this is...........if anybody asked me who I thought the best Coach on the staff is besides MM...............

The only one that stands out to me as being good ..................is..........

Tom Clements----QB Coach

[channtheman]

You know, I've often thought about this. The level of talent in the NFL is negligible. Sure there are the teams that have a better QB, whatever. But at the end of the day, I think that it all comes down to coaching. Games are won and lost by the coaches, IMO.

[Patler]

Re: Are most of the Packers coaches simply not very good???

As SAD as this is...........if anybody asked me who I thought the best Coach on the staff is besides MM...............

The only one that stands out to me as being good ..................is..........

Tom Clements----QB Coach

Two I liked at the time were Clements and Edgar Bennett.
Bennett didn't have much of a background in real coaching at the time, but he won me over during the 4-12 season. They went through back after back after back. If I remember right the had something like seven or 8 different running backs that season. One would go down on Sunday, a new one would be signed on Wednesday, and Bennett had them ready to play the next Sunday.

[Fritz]

How did they go 13-3 last year, though, if the coaching is bad?

I'm not sure about this one. I'm not pleased with the defensive coordination, nor do I think much of Mike Stock. Yet the team's defense was ranked higher last year. Same coaches.

Tough call here.

[Gunakor]

How did they go 13-3 last year, though, if the coaching is bad?

I'm not sure about this one. I'm not pleased with the defensive coordination, nor do I think much of Mike Stock. Yet the team's defense was ranked higher last year. Same coaches.

Tough call here.

The team defense was much healthier last year too. Not only that, but our DT's were able to collapse the pocket last year. I never thought I'd be saying this, but I actually miss having Corey Williams - at least part time. While only average against the run - maybe a little below average - he could create pressure inside that we haven't seen much of at all this year.

[RashanGary]

I think a change in defensive and ST's coaches wouldn't hurt. I think they could do better but I also think they looked a lot better when they had better talent. Most of the blame IMO goes on the players (TED for not bringing better ones in, esspecially on the DL where no coach can make our zeros look good).

[Bretsky]

How did they go 13-3 last year, though, if the coaching is bad?

I'm not sure about this one. I'm not pleased with the defensive coordination, nor do I think much of Mike Stock. Yet the team's defense was ranked higher last year. Same coaches.

Tough call here.

Not sure you want my explanation cause I'll get flamed

But for starters we had a MVP performance from a QB...who often hid the weakness at OL due to his quick decision making process and superior ability to feel a pass rush due to his command of the offense.
Some very timely times when we played certain teams
Some luck, that good teams create (that is not us this year)
And a very deep DL

[Patler]

How did they go 13-3 last year, though, if the coaching is bad?

I'm not sure about this one. I'm not pleased with the defensive coordination, nor do I think much of Mike Stock. Yet the team's defense was ranked higher last year. Same coaches.

Tough call here.

Not sure you want my explanation cause I'll get flamed

But for starters we had a MVP performance from a QB...who often hid the weakness at OL due to his quick decision making process and superior ability to feel a pass rush due to his command of the offense.
Some very timely times when we played certain teams
Some luck, that good teams create (that is not us this year)
And a very deep DL

I agree with Bretsky's list, but will add another factor and ask a question.

First, the added factor. As others have mentioned, a big part of the success in 2007 was that they suffered no significant injuries. When you end the season with all of your preferred starters in place except for Grant having taken the starting job away, you are indeed very fortunate. Their starters lost very little playing time.

Now the question. Did you really believe the Packers were a 13-3 team last year, or did you have the feeling that everything just seemed to go their way resulting in a record better than they really were? A team that is 13-3 should be a great team, dominating many games. The Packers were not that kind of team last year. It really hit home for me when they were manhandled by Dallas and embarrassed by the Bears in the last part of the season.

In some ways 2007 and 2008 are at opposite ends of the luck and good fortune spectrum. I never felt the team was as good as their record in 2007, and I do not feel they are as bad as their record in 2008.