Jerry Kramer Discussion

[Fred's Slacks]

While tailgating before the game last week, some friends and I were hanging out in the Stadium view bar waiting for some other friends. Jerry Kramer was there autographing his book. There was no one around him for a few minutes so I thought I'd take the opportunity to chat with him.

I introduced my self and asked him about his book. Then I asked him what he thought of the season so far. He attributed much of the problems this year to the whole Favre saga. He thought that Favre's waffling along with the media frenzy that followed really dented the psyche of the team and that if he had never retired or just stayed retired this team would be in much better shape. He didn't say it, but I came away believing that he thought the Packers were pushing Brett to retire right away. He said something along the lines of "if you have all the pieces to win a championship you better make damn well sure you do everything you can to get there" (insinuating that the Packers may not have done that). He was very passionate and it was quite evident that he still cares very much about this team.

He said he likes Rodgers. Said "he's a good kid". Said hes playing very well for a "rookie". He emphasized rookie saying: "I don't care how long he's been in the league, he's a rookie until he starts playing".

Since he played OL I had to ask him if he thought Colledge would eventually be our LT. He said that he wasn't impressed when he saw him play LT and that he thought they'd leave him at guard. I was disappointed to hear this as I have been thinking Colledge was going to solidify the 2nd most important position on the offense, but it was interesting none the less to hear this from a former great.

Not trying to stir anything up with this, just thought I'd share.

[swede]

Jerry Kramer's book made a big impression on me when I was a kid. I think he was a pretty smart cat for a football player.

I also think there was a lot of truth to the stuff he said in your private chat--you lucky stiff, you.

Look this team was frickin' 13-3 and one play away from the Superbowl. Now they're looking at a losing record and are in danger of being the only team to lose to the Lions this year.

Inconsistent play on the O line, injuries and entropy on the D line, and a whacked team psyche have done us in.

And yet we're not out of it mathematically.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

One of my favorite players besides Nitschke and White. I wore 64 and 66 all through-out grade school and high school.

[Jimx29]

My thoughts all along except I call it "someones upset the apple cart" , either wise known as "karmas' a bitch"

[red]

could it be that the players feel like the management didn't care if they won this year, so why should they care?

[Pugger]

I don't think management didn't want to win this year. I do think the whole BF saga this summer affected this team big time. When the team should have been concentrating on the upcoming season they had to deal with all that crap last summer. I don't think the team pressured Brett into retiring but when he did they decided to move on even tho Brett changed his mind. But they didn't realize the leadership aspect of having a veteran like Brett on the team. Rodgers is beginning to gain the respect of his teammates but you can't underestimate the impact a player like Brett has on a team.

[Gunakor]

could it be that the players feel like the management didn't care if they won this year, so why should they care?

Twice this season the Packers have found themselves tied for or in sole possession of first place in this division. If before the season started the players felt that way, that feeling should have been wiped out by the fact they were sitting in first place. Of course management cares that they win. They just would rather start winning with a new QB. And they were winning, for a moment anyway. They were in first place. Now if the players gave up AFTER that slipped away, that's another story. But if that's the case, they can't really blame management. They had their shot and let it get away. That's on the players.

[cpk1994]

I don't think management didn't want to win this year. I do think the whole BF saga this summer affected this team big time. When the team should have been concentrating on the upcoming season they had to deal with all that crap last summer. I don't think the team pressured Brett into retiring but when he did they decided to move on even tho Brett changed his mind. But they didn't realize the leadership aspect of having a veteran like Brett on the team. Rodgers is beginning to gain the respect of his teammates but you can't underestimate the impact a player like Brett has on a team.

I agree with you until your last statement. TT and MM very well unsderstand and realize the leadership aspect of having a veteran Brett on the team. They just got tired of Brett playing his "Will I or Won't I" game and pulling his diva act. When he announced his "retirement" They immediately moved on. When Brett started acting like a 4 year old throwing a temper tantrum becuase he couldn't get his way, that started the distraction. They tried to concentrrate on the team, but that became impossible as Brett strated airing all the dirty laundry to the point the Packers had to respond becuase ESPN was lapping up like the Favre suck ups they are and repeatedly bashed the organization without really making an effort to present the Packers side. This has nothing to do with understanding veteran leadership

Saying TT doesn't understand the meaning of veteren leaddership is plain false.

[swede]

I don't think management didn't want to win this year. I do think the whole BF saga this summer affected this team big time. When the team should have been concentrating on the upcoming season they had to deal with all that crap last summer. I don't think the team pressured Brett into retiring but when he did they decided to move on even tho Brett changed his mind. But they didn't realize the leadership aspect of having a veteran like Brett on the team. Rodgers is beginning to gain the respect of his teammates but you can't underestimate the impact a player like Brett has on a team.

I agree with you until your last statement. TT and MM very well unsderstand and realize the leadership aspect of having a veteran Brett on the team. They just got tired of Brett playing his "Will I or Won't I" game and pulling his diva act. When he announced his "retirement" They immediately moved on. When Brett started acting like a 4 year old throwing a temper tantrum becuase he couldn't get his way, that started the distraction. They tried to concentrrate on the team, but that became impossible as Brett strated airing all the dirty laundry to the point the Packers had to respond becuase ESPN was lapping up like the Favre suck ups they are and repeatedly bashed the organization without really making an effort to present the Packers side. This has nothing to do with understanding veteran leadership

Saying TT doesn't understand the meaning of veteren leaddership is plain false.

One of the benefits of having Brett on the team should have been his veteran leadership. But he never ever was a leader off the field. He was one of the best team leaders to play the game while ON the field, but he always let others (Reggie, LeRoy,) handle the locker room.

The team saw the conundrum of Favre's return, and I suppose a few took sides while others said "whatever" and the team never got a chance to get their heads and hearts together before the season. They were like the ex-spouse saying "Ooh, Aaron...that was soo nice...just like Brett used to do...only not as good."

No wonder the guy goes limp at the end of games.

[Pacopete4]

There was no true leader on this team this season.. it was Brett.. and now we have none. No one listens fully to some WR telling them how it is.. its a QB's job to be the leader of the team whether thats fair or not... You can have your opinion of Brett on or off the field but he got his teams for the most part to put out their best performances even when he had a shitty head coach (see Ray Rhodes)

[The Shadow]

I think Favre, with his 'beg me to play' routine was becoming more of a cancer than a leader for the Packers.
Recent player grumblings out of the Jets camp suggest not much has changed.
The Packers now have a winning foundation, albeit a very young one that needs to go through the seasoning process.
This season, injuries and youth are playing a role.
But overall, the team looks poised for very good things.

[Pugger]

I had no problem with TT trading Brett away. His diva act probably was becoming a pain in the rear to MM and TT. But his leadership on the field is missing at times this year. If Brett were still here we'd probably have 2 more wins. But I truly think Rodgers will be the leader on and off the field next season. It is a wonder Rodgers has played as well as he has considering the melodrama we all had to endure this offseason and I think his teammates have taken notice.

[texaspackerbacker]

As I read through the posts, the things Kramer himself supposedly said make a helluva lot more sense than any of the responses.

[pbmax]

The Official Jerry Kramer Handbook for Hall of Fame Politicking

http://www.sharesnack.com/AB795DF569B/fumexa0i

[Fritz]

I thought Ron was the kicker....it was Jerry? Wow.

Put that dude in the HOF. Just for taking so much time to come up with that snazzy booklet.