No TV How did Sitton do?

[Noodle]

I understand your position, Patler, but Barbre had a great opportunity to seize a job on this train-wreck of a line, and he never came close. Maybe because of Wahle and Rivera, we tend to be very patient with OL and want to give them years to develop.

Screw that. The Colts started a seventh round draft pick at center this year -- at center! You know, the position where you have to know and make all the line calls, on one of the most fluid and sophisticated offenses in football. Well, the dude got the job done.

Barbre's had more than a fair chance, and hasn't shown me enough.

I share Patler's concerns about Colledge. The guy is a coach killer and a tease. He always shows just enough to keep you interested, like the Wynn run, but in the end, he is terribly inconsistent. He got destroyed on one play around the Detroit 15, causing Rodgers to have to make a great escape and throw to Jennings, and I saw him fail to finish blocks on running plays at least 4 or 5 times. He may be the best we've got, but I'm not sold on the guy.

[sharpe1027]

I understand your position, Patler, but Barbre had a great opportunity to seize a job on this train-wreck of a line, and he never came close. Maybe because of Wahle and Rivera, we tend to be very patient with OL and want to give them years to develop.

Screw that. The Colts started a seventh round draft pick at center this year -- at center! You know, the position where you have to know and make all the line calls, on one of the most fluid and sophisticated offenses in football. Well, the dude got the job done.

Barbre's had more than a fair chance, and hasn't shown me enough.

I share Patler's concerns about Colledge. The guy is a coach killer and a tease. He always shows just enough to keep you interested, like the Wynn run, but in the end, he is terribly inconsistent. He got destroyed on one play around the Detroit 15, causing Rodgers to have to make a great escape and throw to Jennings, and I saw him fail to finish blocks on running plays at least 4 or 5 times. He may be the best we've got, but I'm not sold on the guy.

Regardless of what you think of Colledge as first-teamer, he is a coaches dream for a backup. He can play just about any position. He does seem to completely blow plays, but the number of these blown plays has come down. It seems he is learning. Maybe he will never get all the way there, but I think he might.

As for Barbre, I haven't seen enough of him. At the very least, he seems to be a solid backup. Given his athleticism, I'm sure he'll be given more opportunities.

[Patler]

I understand your position, Patler, but Barbre had a great opportunity to seize a job on this train-wreck of a line, and he never came close. Maybe because of Wahle and Rivera, we tend to be very patient with OL and want to give them years to develop.

Screw that. The Colts started a seventh round draft pick at center this year -- at center! You know, the position where you have to know and make all the line calls, on one of the most fluid and sophisticated offenses in football. Well, the dude got the job done.

Barbre's had more than a fair chance, and hasn't shown me enough.

The Colts may have started a rookie at center due to injuries a couple games, but Jeff Saturday was still their starter at the position. The Packers have had their share of rookie starters on the line over the years too, sometimes successfully (Tauscher, Clifton) sometimes not (Whitticker, Moll) sometimes so-so (Colledge, Spitz). More often linemen wotk into the starting lineup after a year or two.

Last year the Packers were quite happy with Barbre. I don't know what may have happened this year, but Sitton is the new favorite child. I'm willing to see what Barbre can do next preseason before giving up on him. Tony Moll on the other hand.......

[Noodle]

Geez, Patler, didn't you hear, Barbre took a swing at a coach, or he slept with a coach, or took a dump in a coach's closet, or some damn thing with a coach. Anyway, it was on the Internet, so it had to be true.

Let me be straight -- I don't have the expertise of guys like KY and ND72 and others to give sound analyses of these guys. I watch 'em as close as I can given the crap TV camera angle and go from there.

What I would LOVE is to get access to the weekly OL grading charts. Absent that, I wish one of the Packer beat writers would make it his job to really know the OL and provide the individual grades and an independent analysis of the players.

Until that happens, I'll rely on my eyes. And they tell me Barbre ain't it.

[Patler]

Geez, Patler, didn't you hear, Barbre took a swing at a coach, or he slept with a coach, or took a dump in a coach's closet, or some damn thing with a coach. Anyway, it was on the Internet, so it had to be true.

Let me be straight -- I don't have the expertise of guys like KY and ND72 and others to give sound analyses of these guys. I watch 'em as close as I can given the crap TV camera angle and go from there.

What I would LOVE is to get access to the weekly OL grading charts. Absent that, I wish one of the Packer beat writers would make it his job to really know the OL and provide the individual grades and an independent analysis of the players.

Until that happens, I'll rely on my eyes. And they tell me Barbre ain't it.

Yeah, the internet is a wonderful thing for false rumors, isn't it?

Frankly, I haven't seen enough of Barbre to have much of a feel for him. About all I know of him is what the coaches say (or don't say!) I thought Barbre played OK last year against Detroit, which was one of the reasons people were so high on him for this year. He hasn't played enough this year to know. About all we can be sure of is that he is viewed by the coaches to be behind Sitton.

Years ago one of the writers used to grade each starter individually for each game. Now they do it as a group grade in which they mention individual performances. At the end of the year both the GBPG and the MJS usually grade each player for the year. Often they throw in little insightful comments gathered through out the season. I look forward to those. It might tell us the REAL reason why Barbre was in the doghouse!

[KYPack]

Geez, Patler, didn't you hear, Barbre took a swing at a coach, or he slept with a coach, or took a dump in a coach's closet, or some damn thing with a coach. Anyway, it was on the Internet, so it had to be true.

Let me be straight -- I don't have the expertise of guys like KY and ND72 and others to give sound analyses of these guys. I watch 'em as close as I can given the crap TV camera angle and go from there.

What I would LOVE is to get access to the weekly OL grading charts. Absent that, I wish one of the Packer beat writers would make it his job to really know the OL and provide the individual grades and an independent analysis of the players.

Until that happens, I'll rely on my eyes. And they tell me Barbre ain't it.

I'd love to get all-22 game tape to watch, too, Noodle.


The coaches don't want grades (even if done independantly) hitting the papers. That Eric Barancyck guy used to do some of that.

Patler is right. Colledge is one of the best downfield blocking guys we've had in years. He made some spectacular plays of that nature last year. He's average at the point of attack, but he's easily our most improved OLineman this year.

Spitz somehow regressed. He really didn't improve any, if at all. Moll? a back-up. My big hang-up with him is that he is about all he's gonna be. A poor tackle and an iffy guard. You don't have a lot of all-pro's at back-up. But should we pass on Moll and get some kid that might be something someday? I think, yeah, we should.

Sitton? A decent plug ugly. The kind of kid who should help us a lot for a number of years. Sitton has the potential to give us some push in the interior.

The other deal is do we lose both tackles now? Tausch is "contractless" and going to get his knee knifed. Cliffy is on the 16th green. We can't lose 'em both, but we might just do that.

Barbre, I can't figure out. I know how Patler feels. I went to the Detroit game last season & Barbre and Colledge looked like they had played the left side together for 5 years. I thought, OK, there's the left side of the future. This year I never saw that pairing again.

We wound up with the same old, old-guy tackles and inconsistent kids in the interior. When does this bunch gel and show some potential?

I wish I knew.

[Joemailman]

Barbre, I can't figure out. I know how Patler feels. I went to the Detroit game last season & Barbre and Colledge looked like they had played the left side together for 5 years. I thought, OK, there's the left side of the future. This year I never saw that pairing again.

We wound up with the same old, old-guy tackles and inconsistent kids in the interior. When does this bunch gel and show some potential?

I wish I knew.

It was probably understandable that MM decided to stand pat with the OL after a 13-3 season, especially given the success they had in the 2nd half of 2007. However, a 6-10 season could add some urgency to make improvements. I'm thinking Sitton and Colledge may start on the right side next year, and don't be surprised if TT drafts Clifton's eventual replacement on the 1st round this year.

[RashanGary]

I like Sitton and Colledge. I think they'll end up being our best lineman. I like Spitz at center. The tackles are a complete toss up. We'll see how that shakes out. If we find a guard we can always move Colledge out. If we find a tackle we can always keep him inside. He's good wherever he plays in my opinion.