Ken Wisenhunt has balls, does MM?

[Partial]

Whiz is a smart coach too. How often are we seeing/hearing of the free kick at the end of the half now that Whiz did it?

How often were we seeing/hearing about it before? NEVER! I am guessing most coaches had no idea it existed, since it was what 40 years since it was last converted?

As usual you are wrong again. McCarthy used against Detroit LAST WEEK. I guess you could say if it wasn't for M3, Whiz porobably doesn't know about it. I think McCarthy is the smart one on that.

Yeah... AFter whiz used it for the first time this season on November 24th.

The last time it was used before that was in 2005 by Jeff fisher.

Before that.... 1984. Honestly, shut the fuck up. I have asked you time and time again to NOT respond to my posts, but you're a disrespectful child.

Either get the facts straight, or don't waste my time.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Fair-catch-kick

Hurts to be wrong all the time, doesn't it

[Partial]

Yeah. I didn't read the rest of the thread becuase I repsnmnded to the one I saw. But I noticed that Partial called Whiz smart for it, yet McCarthy used it against Detroit, Partial said, "It doesn't count becuase it was a mkeaningless game" It counts the same no matter what the stakes of the game.

First of all, don't put words in my mouth, asshole.

Second of all... I'm saying It is a rare thing. Jeff Fisher and Ken Whisenhunt are the only coaches to have used it in the past 25 years.

2 attempts... I'm not speaking from experience because obviously I am not a head coach, but I can think of a slew of situations over the years where teams easily could have attempted this at the end of the first half, yet they haven't.

My guess as to why is they didn't know such a thing existed, otherwise you'd get more than two attempts in 25 years.

[Patler]

I'm not speaking from experience because obviously I am not a head coach, but I can think of a slew of situations over the years where teams easily could have attempted this at the end of the first half, yet they haven't.

My guess as to why is they didn't know such a thing existed, otherwise you'd get more than two attempts in 25 years.

I disagree completely. I have known this rule ever since the Packers used it in the '60s (against the Bears I believe) and the Bears later used it for a game-winning kick against the Packers. I even impressed my son in the Lions game by making the call on 3rd down for the Lions, saying the Packers needed to hold, fair catch a punt and get a free kick. My son, who is in his 20's said "A what?"

The situation rarely comes up. All of the following have to happen:

1. There has to be time enough only for the punt, about 10 seconds or less. If there is more than that, the team will fair catch, run one offensive play to try to shorten the distance, then kick the FG.

2. The punt has to come from well inside the 20 yard line to have a decent shot at it. The Lions punted from the 17, and Crosby was faced with a 69 yard attempt. If the Lion punter had kicked a 45 yard punt instead of a 42 yarder, the Packers may not have even tried the kick from 72 yards.

3. You have to have a very strong-legged kicker, because it will almost always be a 60 yard kick or more. Even a poor punt of 40 yards from the 5 yard line results in a 55 yard attempt on the free kick. It would have been useless to try the kick with Longwell. As good of a kicker as he is, he does not have 69 yard range. or even 65 yard range. He has kicked from 59, but that is about his limit.

4. The return man has to field the punt as a fair catch. Once you know the rule, you will also notice that when a situation like this happens, the punters will often kick away from the return man, even out of bounds to prevent the free kick from happening. I believe the Lion punter tried to do this, but Blackmon still got it and fielded it on his back. This was a big risk, a fumble could have lead to Detroit points.

I have known the rule for 40 years. I called the chance of it happening in the Lion game long before it happened. I do not remember a single time watching a game when a team overlooked a chance to use it. The circumstances are not common.

[Partial]

How many current NFL coaches were alive in the 60s led alone cognisant of the oddities in the NFL? The play was used quite frequently in the 60s. From '64 to '71 it was used 10 times!!! I think most people that are 65+ and big football fans probably remember those plays.

Not saying 10 times is frequent, but its certainly more frequent than it has been lately. It was used on average almost 1.5 times per year during the late 60s!

I don't think most people in their young 40s know of it. I mean its been used twice in the past 25 years.

In the past 25 years, it is used about merely 8% as frequently as in the early 60s, or .12 times per year, or approximately once every 9 years.

These numbers are all from this link. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...air-catch-kick

[channtheman]

How many current NFL coaches were alive in the 60s led alone cognisant of the oddities in the NFL? The play was used quite frequently in the 60s. From '64 to '71 it was used 10 times!!! I think most people that are 65+ and big football fans probably remember those plays.

Not saying 10 times is frequent, but its certainly more frequent than it has been lately. It was used on average almost 1.5 times per year during the late 60s!

I don't think most people in their young 40s know of it. I mean its been used twice in the past 25 years.

In the past 25 years, it is used about merely 8% as frequently as in the early 60s, or .12 times per year, or approximately once every 9 years.

These numbers are all from this link. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...air-catch-kick

Most people do not know about it, you are correct in this. There is no way to know if the coaches know about it or not. But I do know that the circumstances in which it will be used are rare and they never came up for John Madden. He said he always wanted to do it but he never got the chance.

[Patler]

How many current NFL coaches were alive in the 60s led alone cognisant of the oddities in the NFL? The play was used quite frequently in the 60s. From '64 to '71 it was used 10 times!!! I think most people that are 65+ and big football fans probably remember those plays.

Not saying 10 times is frequent, but its certainly more frequent than it has been lately. It was used on average almost 1.5 times per year during the late 60s!

I don't think most people in their young 40s know of it. I mean its been used twice in the past 25 years.

In the past 25 years, it is used about merely 8% as frequently as in the early 60s, or .12 times per year, or approximately once every 9 years.

These numbers are all from this link. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...air-catch-kick

A major reason for that is that before 1974 the goal posts were on the goal line, not at the back of the endzone. The attempts were 10 yards shorter.

[cpk1994]

Yeah. I didn't read the rest of the thread becuase I repsnmnded to the one I saw. But I noticed that Partial called Whiz smart for it, yet McCarthy used it against Detroit, Partial said, "It doesn't count becuase it was a mkeaningless game" It counts the same no matter what the stakes of the game.

First of all, don't put words in my mouth, asshole.

Second of all... I'm saying It is a rare thing. Jeff Fisher and Ken Whisenhunt are the only coaches to have used it in the past 25 years.

2 attempts... I'm not speaking from experience because obviously I am not a head coach, but I can think of a slew of situations over the years where teams easily could have attempted this at the end of the first half, yet they haven't.

My guess as to why is they didn't know such a thing existed, otherwise you'd get more than two attempts in 25 years.

Again, why do you continually ignore McCarthy using it against the Lions? Do you hate the guy so much you won't give him any credit. By the way, its funny that you seem to get away with the personal attacks especially calling someone childish, and then calling them an asshole and also telling others who's posts they can respond to, like you are some kind of forum nazi. You are a hypocrite in every sense of the word.

[Partial]

I'm talking about BEFORE MM did it. I think someone else has used it as well after Wisenhunt did, as well as MM. They probably learned the rule when Wisenhunt did it!

That is the point I am making. I really like what I see out of Wisenhunt. MM was phenomenal last year, but he has certainly slipped quite a bit in my opinion, and the poor play calling we saw against Chicago last year (PR game) popped up more, and more this year. That is a big time concern for me.

With that said, it seems like MM is taking steps towards correcting the problem. The first step is admitting the problems, and he has done that. Not only did he do that, but he took some action and let go Sanders. Hopefully the OC is next! The offense did equally poor imo.

[Lurker64]

I'm talking about BEFORE MM did it. I think someone else has used it as well after Wisenhunt did, as well as MM. They probably learned the rule when Wisenhunt did it!

This is very unlikely. I've known about this rule for at least the last five years, and I'm willing to bet almost all NFL coaches know everything I know about football and a whole lot more.

It's an obscure way of scoring, and a neat bit of trivia. What coach wouldn't know about it?

I mean, John Madden during the Saturday Night game mentioned that during his entire coaching career he was always looking for an opportunity to try the fair catch kick, it just never came up. I'm imagining that there are a lot of coaches in that situation.

[Partial]

I'm not going to call you a liar, but are you reading NFL rule books in your free time?

Prior to Wisenhunt attemping this on Nov 24th 2008, the last attempt was in 2005 from Jeff Fisher. The last time before that was in 1984.

[Lurker64]

I'm not going to call you a liar, but are you reading NFL rule books in your free time?

Prior to Wisenhunt attemping this on Nov 24th 2008, the last attempt was in 2005 from Jeff Fisher. The last time before that was in 1984.

And Sportscenter does a blurb about it for their pre-game show like clockwork about every year. Kenny Mayne has done a couple of them. But yes, I have a copy of the NFL rulebook, but I knew the fair catch kick rule before I had a copy.

Just because it doesn't happen very often doesn't mean people don't know the rule. The rule is set up in such a way that it only really makes sense to attempt the fair catch kick in one situation: if the other team is punting from deep in their zone as time expires in the second half and the receiving team has the opportunity to make a fair catch.

It just doesn't come up that often, particularly because opposing coaches also know the rule and will try to avoid giving the opposition the opportunity to get points in this way.