List 5 Specific Changes Needed for 2009 Success....

[cpk1994]

Really, I think that it's an operative lesson that it's not worth listening to someone who will come out and say "I am a [player/coach/administrator] hater". There are people here whose opinions I respect and will listen to who say things like "I don't think Thompson has done a very good job, (a couple of examples notwithstanding), and I think he has (chronic problem) and we'll probably need to replace him sooner or later, but I still hope he goes and gets some good players so the team will do well next year, I just don't see it happening." But anybody who says "I hate Thompson... he needs to fail more so that everybody will agree with me" isn't worth listening to, IMO.

I mean, we all wish we could find somebody who's better than Jarrett Bush to fill that position on the roster, but if we find somebody who's ostensibly a replacement, and Bush takes his game to the next level and starts playing out of his mind and significantly better than his replacement, I don't think anybody would really still want Bush gone.

Well put Lurker. I'm pretty sure every team in the league has fans like our resident TT troll. I mean someone had to take over for Tank. And every team in the league has players they would like to upgrade. Thompsons made some really good decisions, some really bad decisions, but generally he's been somewhere in the middle and to sit at your computer and think that you could do better than a guy who's hired by an NFL team to do this job is just plain idiocy.

I would call it ignorance, but the ignorant are at least capable of gaining knowledge.

I agree with your analysis of TT. I have my issues with him, most notably the punting debacle, mostly for when TT pulled the trigger. I would have stuck with Ryan, but his numbers don't show much of a difference than Frost, so my way wouldn't work much either.

[Pacopete4]

Well put Lurker. I'm pretty sure every team in the league has fans like our resident TT troll. I mean someone had to take over for Tank. And every team in the league has players they would like to upgrade. Thompsons made some really good decisions, some really bad decisions, but generally he's been somewhere in the middle and to sit at your computer and think that you could do better than a guy who's hired by an NFL team to do this job is just plain idiocy.

I would call it ignorance, but the ignorant are at least capable of gaining knowledge.

fix the fuckin lines... and I probably wouldnt have a bitch about the guy! But HE HAS FAILED! FAILED!!!! FAAAAAAIILLLLED! how do u people not copy that... he has failed at his job which now has people getting fired over it and either next year or the year after... he will be gone too

But see, this is supposed to be a place where people can come and discuss football topics. When everyone here wants you to stop, that should be an indicator to you. Even people that agree with you want you to STFU. Does that not compute in your brain? WE ALL KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. You're not going to change anyones mind. You're only going to further irritate everyone here and bring about your own ouster. If thats what you're going for just tell me know and I will facilitate it.

so people that feed me good shit about TT over and over are ok... but people that point out the bad shit about him cannot be on these boards? Ya great discussion boards... get everyone outta here that doesnt have the same opinions as u and the good ole packerrat boys!

[MJZiggy]

Uh...Paco...while not one of the PackerRat "boys" (lest ye not forget that there are women here who know more about football than you do too), I can tell you that there are plenty of people around here who are none too thrilled with Ted Thompson and post just fine, because by some miracle they can refrain from calling him every offensive name they can think of, base their posts on logical correlations and outcomes, and don't post irrelevant crap in every thread on the board.

[Lurker64]

so people that feed me good shit about TT over and over are ok... but people that point out the bad shit about him cannot be on these boards? Ya great discussion boards... get everyone outta here that doesnt have the same opinions as u and the good ole packerrat boys!

The difference is largely in how you make your point about these things. Nobody wants to hang out on a football forum where they will be treated to a chorus of "ZOMG TT ROXORZ! ALLS TEH OTHER GMS CANT HOLD HIS JOKC! BOW DOWN ASSCLOWNS!" But nobody is going to really resent "You know, Thompson has done a remarkable job getting contributors in the sixth round: Jolly, Bishop, Crosby, Hall, and overall I think the roster is in good shape, with a few holes (in the following places) and I hope that he can address them in the offseason."

At the same time people don't want to hear "TT sucks. He sucks so much that he sucks. He's shitty and he sucks. He's one of the suckiest sucks who ever sucked. Shit... TT sucks." But nobody's going to resent "While Thompson has gotten some solid but unspectacular guys, he's largely failed to draft blue chip players that will force the opposition to plan around them, and a bunch of 'dependably above average guys' is just never going to get a championship. Plus, while he's done reasonably well in free agency the few times he's dipped his toes in the water, he really can't continue to ignore it to the degree that he has. A championship team is built through good drafting as well as judicious use of free agency, unless he changes his ways, I don't see Thompson really succeeding in the long run."

The difference between the later comment critical of Thompson and the former is that the latter assumes that he's made some mistakes and misteps and even screwed up a few things, but acknowledges that he's done some things reasonably well and most importantly does not assume that he is absolutely irredeemable and could never adjust his strategies in the draft or free agency to become anything close to successful.

Anybody, even a fuckup of historic proportions, can rebound and get on a roll and accomplish some good things. True fans of the Packers want everybody in the organization, even fuckups of historic proportions, to turn it around and succeed. If this doesn't happen, of course we'd prefer to find someone to do a better job. But the average fan isn't very successful at finding a upgrade over Wynn and Lumpkin at the bottom of somebody else's roster or on their practice squad. How the hell is the average fan going to be able to scour the personnel divisions of other NFL teams in order to find a better GM?

[SnakeLH2006]

Wow this topic has degenerated into another Pacopote vs. CPK thread. Kinda funny to read, but regardless, my original topic comes back I hope.

Our D needs fixing. Fire Vanilla Bob, bring in a vet D-coordinator.

Get some a DL and OL starter through FA and the #9 pick and we'll be good.

Yes, there was some shitty luck this year as that goes either way (13-3) was overachieving, but we do have some holes to fill.

I actually go with Bretsky and JH with the most valid points on the beginning of this thread before this turned into a TT=suxxors topic.

TT has some work to do and still have faith...we'll see what this offseason brings as I have high hopes we can parlay our returning injured (Barnett, Jenkins), our high draft picks, and reasonable cap room to get us back in the playoffs.

The skill positions are pretty good on O and D. We need OL/DL line help and some coaching tweaks and we are bound for glory.

[Gunakor]

Wow this topic has degenerated into another Pacopote vs. CPK thread. Kinda funny to read, but regardless, my original topic comes back I hope.

Our D needs fixing. Fire Vanilla Bob, bring in a vet D-coordinator.

Get some a DL and OL starter through FA and the #9 pick and we'll be good.

Yes, there was some shitty luck this year as that goes either way (13-3) was overachieving, but we do have some holes to fill.

I actually go with Bretsky and JH with the most valid points on the beginning of this thread before this turned into a TT=suxxors topic.

TT has some work to do and still have faith...we'll see what this offseason brings as I have high hopes we can parlay our returning injured (Barnett, Jenkins), our high draft picks, and reasonable cap room to get us back in the playoffs.

The skill positions are pretty good on O and D. We need OL/DL line help and some coaching tweaks and we are bound for glory.

I fully expect to see one vet FA on the DL. Hopefully, as stocked as the draft appears to be with DE's at the top, we snag a pretty good one at #9. Now if, say, Haynesworth comes to GB as a FA, and TT uses #9 on a big time DE, then our DL would be as follows:

Kampman/Haynesworth/Pickett/#9 overall pick.

OMGZ!!! It's not quite White/Dotson/Brown/Jones, but it's about as close as we're gonna get! And the best part? #9 is going to sign a 5+ year rookie deal, and Haynesworth is gonna be signed to a 6+ year deal. Kampy gets a modest extension, and viola! Our DL would be set until 2014.

I haven't really looked as far as the OL yet. I honestly believe that the interior line is going to continue to get better as is has this year and last. We need a new OT, but I'm less worried about that then I am with fixing our DL. I'll assume that either Cliffy or Tauch will be back next year, if not both of them. Since Colledge is supposed to take over an OT spot, that being his natural position, I think we'll be okay there so long as neither of them make it back. I think it's a priority, but not nearly as important as our DL. DL is where the focus should be this winter/spring IMO.

[Packerarcher]

1. Fire TT

2. Fire TT

3. Fire TT

4. Fire TT

5. Did I mention that getting rid of TT would help.

[digitaldean]

1. Get rid of the Sanders' D - check
2. Get rid of the Mike Stock cluelessness on ST. - check
3. Hire a DC that will bring a better uses (and disguises) of blitzes.
4. Scrap the f'in ZBS.
5. Use FA and draft to get as much impact on both lines of the ball.

Controlling the line of scrimmage. If we control the line, we don't have to get cute in the red zone (inside the 10 especially). Plus we can wear teams down come the 4th qtr. Remember when Green was in his prime? His 4th qtr numbers were awesome because the O-Line ground opponents down.

If we control the line of scrimmage, we get more pressure on opposing QB's and help out the secondary and LB's.

[Packerarcher]

Well put Lurker. I'm pretty sure every team in the league has fans like our resident TT troll. I mean someone had to take over for Tank. And every team in the league has players they would like to upgrade. Thompsons made some really good decisions, some really bad decisions, but generally he's been somewhere in the middle and to sit at your computer and think that you could do better than a guy who's hired by an NFL team to do this job is just plain idiocy.

I would call it ignorance, but the ignorant are at least capable of gaining knowledge.

fix the fuckin lines... and I probably wouldnt have a bitch about the guy! But HE HAS FAILED! FAILED!!!! FAAAAAAIILLLLED! how do u people not copy that... he has failed at his job which now has people getting fired over it and either next year or the year after... he will be gone too

But see, this is supposed to be a place where people can come and discuss football topics. When everyone here wants you to stop, that should be an indicator to you. Even people that agree with you want you to STFU. Does that not compute in your brain? WE ALL KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. You're not going to change anyones mind. You're only going to further irritate everyone here and bring about your own ouster. If thats what you're going for just tell me know and I will facilitate it.

so people that feed me good shit about TT over and over are ok... but people that point out the bad shit about him cannot be on these boards? Ya great discussion boards... get everyone outta here that doesnt have the same opinions as u and the good ole packerrat boys!

Paco,for some reason people here love that moron TT. I have said for a while that he is no good for the Packers,but all the TT lovers here will have none of that.

[SnakeLH2006]

1. Get rid of the Sanders' D - check
2. Get rid of the Mike Stock cluelessness on ST. - check
3. Hire a DC that will bring a better uses (and disguises) of blitzes.
4. Scrap the f'in ZBS.
5. Use FA and draft to get as much impact on both lines of the ball.

Controlling the line of scrimmage. If we control the line, we don't have to get cute in the red zone (inside the 10 especially). Plus we can wear teams down come the 4th qtr. Remember when Green was in his prime? His 4th qtr numbers were awesome because the O-Line ground opponents down.

If we control the line of scrimmage, we get more pressure on opposing QB's and help out the secondary and LB's.

I do agree and have never been onboard with the ZBS as the power-gap scheme worked wonders before with bullish RB's like Green, et al. I see Grant, and Wynn as the bulls, and B-Jack as a 3rd down scatback. I really like that lineup behind a more power-oriented attack. Then again, we need to fire Campy (word is he's gone too) and get a mauler or two. The finesse shit is garbage on goal-lines and when we need a first.

As far as Gunakor goes, yes, the DL is a priority, I agree, but a scheme change wouldn't bring as much results as a scheme change on the OL. I do agree we need to upgrade the front 4 as Kampy looks pedestrian and tired when he's doing a yeoman's job with the crap (Jeremy Thompson, Montgomery, etc.) clogging the trenches laying on their backs (or esp. in Montgomery's case, looking woefully unaware as they let huge plays go past their contain)....Yes, we do need a top FA DL and/or the #9 pick to pan out strongly this year.

It looks like a consensus that coaching changes need to me made on the lines (check)....and that a player or 3 need to bring some upgrades to the big guys on both sides of the ball.

We are highly skilled at the skill positions and hope we retain Jennings.

[Gunakor]

Well put Lurker. I'm pretty sure every team in the league has fans like our resident TT troll. I mean someone had to take over for Tank. And every team in the league has players they would like to upgrade. Thompsons made some really good decisions, some really bad decisions, but generally he's been somewhere in the middle and to sit at your computer and think that you could do better than a guy who's hired by an NFL team to do this job is just plain idiocy.

I would call it ignorance, but the ignorant are at least capable of gaining knowledge.

fix the fuckin lines... and I probably wouldnt have a bitch about the guy! But HE HAS FAILED! FAILED!!!! FAAAAAAIILLLLED! how do u people not copy that... he has failed at his job which now has people getting fired over it and either next year or the year after... he will be gone too

But see, this is supposed to be a place where people can come and discuss football topics. When everyone here wants you to stop, that should be an indicator to you. Even people that agree with you want you to STFU. Does that not compute in your brain? WE ALL KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. You're not going to change anyones mind. You're only going to further irritate everyone here and bring about your own ouster. If thats what you're going for just tell me know and I will facilitate it.

so people that feed me good shit about TT over and over are ok... but people that point out the bad shit about him cannot be on these boards? Ya great discussion boards... get everyone outta here that doesnt have the same opinions as u and the good ole packerrat boys!

Paco,for some reason people here love that moron TT. I have said for a while that he is no good for the Packers,but all the TT lovers here will have none of that.

That's because TT haters like you only look at things he's done wrong. You give him no credit for restocking the depth at all of the skill positions - for example, having the deepest WR corps in teh NFL 1-5, and it's not a close margin. We could do far worse than Grant, Jackson, Lumpkin and Wynn in our backfield. And it appears he found a keeper in Aaron Rodgers too. So, of all of our skill position players, only ONE is a holdover from the pre-Thompson era (that being Donald Driver). Everyone else TT brought in. Why is it so hard to give credit where credit is due? Because they were all drafted and not FA's? Does that make a difference if the guys are producing?

Or does a GM have to be perfect for you to consider him adequate for the job?

[HarveyWallbangers]

1. Revamp the DL.
2. Figure out how the OL will shake out.
3. Get a new defensive scheme.
4. Get healthy.
5a. Figure out what went wrong at the end of games.
5b. Figure out how the special teams fell off so much.

[HarveyWallbangers]

1. Let Vanilla Bob go and hire somebody proven from outside the organization to bring in a new mentality on the defense

2. Sign a starting DL via free agency and don't shy away from an upgrade of Bigby

3. Draft a playmaker on defense with pick #9...S...LB....DL

4. Lock up Jennings

We went 6-10, and that isn't a whole lot to fix. Strange season.

[Bretsky]

1. Let Vanilla Bob go and hire somebody proven from outside the organization to bring in a new mentality on the defense

2. Sign a starting DL via free agency and don't shy away from an upgrade of Bigby

3. Draft a playmaker on defense with pick #9...S...LB....DL

4. Lock up Jennings

We went 6-10, and that isn't a whole lot to fix. Strange season.

If we get a competent DC and another player or two 6-10 can turn into 10-6 real quickly

[Gunakor]

1. Let Vanilla Bob go and hire somebody proven from outside the organization to bring in a new mentality on the defense

2. Sign a starting DL via free agency and don't shy away from an upgrade of Bigby

3. Draft a playmaker on defense with pick #9...S...LB....DL

4. Lock up Jennings

We went 6-10, and that isn't a whole lot to fix. Strange season.

If we get a competent DC and another player or two 6-10 can turn into 10-6 real quickly

We'll need 3 or 4 players if the competent DC we bring in brings a 3-4 with him. That doesn't give me a whole lot of hope for 2009, to be honest.