Justin Harrell

[pbmax]

We could take over for them. (except that there's no way I'm moving back to Wisconsin)

I will not take this personally at all. There is, after all, a half inch of ice on my driveway.

[Pacopete4]

I will say this about Harrell. Someone threw him under the bus to the press this offseason after he hurt his back at the beginning of the off-season program. They said he reported out of shape, etc.

How does being out of shape guarantee a specific back problem?

How out of shape could he have been in 7 weeks? Someone asked this a while back and its bothered me ever since. Was the source just ticked at him, trying to motivate, or is seven weeks enough time to guarantee this kind of injury?

I posted a "timeline" about Harrell. From the time he could have left Green Bay following the player exit interviews the week after the playoff loss, to an interview I found with him already back in Green Bay, a day or two before the voluntary, off season conditioning program started was about 7 weeks. That's it. Another article said he had gained about 10 lbs, which the team did not want him to gain. Ten pounds on a 325 lb. tackle.

People are equating this to players who report out of shape for training camp in August. It wasn't. He had gained a little weight (not unheard of for mammoth DTs) when he reported for a voluntary conditioning program in March, more than 5 months before the season would start. He was there for the specific purpose of getting stronger and in better shape. He had 5 months to do it.

He could have skipped the camp, reported at weight in August, and no one would have known.

People need to think a little bit about what really happened here. Harrell took conditioning seriously enough that he was in GB in March for the first day of the voluntary program. We have had others who skip it and report out of shape in August.

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?

[pbmax]

People need to think a little bit about what really happened here. Harrell took conditioning seriously enough that he was in GB in March for the first day of the voluntary program. We have had others who skip it and report out of shape in August.

Like his linemate, Pickett. The one armed man was not the same at all this year.

That's it, I am calling McGinn and asking for my Christmas card back!

[pbmax]

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?

Yes, paco, he is. Not because Petler has decided to join an anti-Harrell group, or commit himself to driving all Harrell loving people crazy, but because the truth is important.

McGinn is grinding an ax on Harrell because he can, but he is not reporting facts when he speculates that Harrell was injured because he was out of shape. If any organization hopes to improve compared to its competition, it needs good, clean data and information. Right now, Patler is doing that better than McGinn in Harrell's case.

[Patler]

I posted a "timeline" about Harrell. From the time he could have left Green Bay following the player exit interviews the week after the playoff loss, to an interview I found with him already back in Green Bay, a day or two before the voluntary, off season conditioning program started was about 7 weeks. That's it. Another article said he had gained about 10 lbs, which the team did not want him to gain. Ten pounds on a 325 lb. tackle.

People are equating this to players who report out of shape for training camp in August. It wasn't. He had gained a little weight (not unheard of for mammoth DTs) when he reported for a voluntary conditioning program in March, more than 5 months before the season would start. He was there for the specific purpose of getting stronger and in better shape. He had 5 months to do it.

He could have skipped the camp, reported at weight in August, and no one would have known.

People need to think a little bit about what really happened here. Harrell took conditioning seriously enough that he was in GB in March for the first day of the voluntary program. We have had others who skip it and report out of shape in August.

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?

Sure. I have stated in numerous other threads that Harrell could turn out to be a bust, but that does not mean I think it was a bad pick at the time it was made. A great many 1st round picks do turn out to be busts, that's just the way it goes. I certainly do not expect TT to hit on his 1st rounders 100% of the time, no GM does.

Harrell's coaches raved about his ability, his natural strength and power. Many have said without the injury his senior year he could have been a top 10 pick. His injuries were not related injuries, they were isolated, individual events. He had tremendous potential. Well worth the risk in the middle of the first round.

I find two things rather humorous. First, people complain about TT being too conservative, not taking chances on player in FA, etc. Yet when he took a chance in the draft for a guy with great potential, he is roundly criticized for taking that chance. Second, at the time people complained about taking a DT instead of a position of "greater need". The need to take DTs whnever you can was certainly proven out this year.

TT took a chance on Harrell. It looks like it might be a failure. I still think it was worth the risk at the time he was taken.

Note: I suspect this back thing with Harrell could be the end of his career. Just my feeling. I really hope I am wrong.

[Pacopete4]

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?

Yes, paco, he is. Not because Petler has decided to join an anti-Harrell group, or commit himself to driving all Harrell loving people crazy, but because the truth is important.

I have nothing against Harrell... he shoulda never been in G&G though so my hatred still falls on the snake himself... thats all

[pbmax]

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?

Yes, paco, he is. Not because Petler has decided to join an anti-Harrell group, or commit himself to driving all Harrell loving people crazy, but because the truth is important.

I have nothing against Harrell... he shoulda never been in G&G though so my hatred still falls on the snake himself... thats all

How can you say never? Its clear, Corey Williams or no, we have a definite DT need, who else would you have taken?

[Lurker64]

How can you say never? Its clear, Corey Williams or no, we have a definite DT need, who else would you have taken?

Well, the top three DTs on the board that draft were Okoye, Harrell and Branch. Anybody know how Alan Branch is doing in Arizona? Would he have been a better pick? I wasn't really high on him, since he's more in the "tub of goo at DT" mold, but Harrell hasn't really impressed.

[Pacopete4]

So youre putting up facts that TT did in fact blow a pick on a guy that cant stay healthy?

Yes, paco, he is. Not because Petler has decided to join an anti-Harrell group, or commit himself to driving all Harrell loving people crazy, but because the truth is important.

I have nothing against Harrell... he shoulda never been in G&G though so my hatred still falls on the snake himself... thats all

How can you say never? Its clear, Corey Williams or no, we have a definite DT need, who else would you have taken?

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

[Lurker64]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.

[Partial]

How can you say never? Its clear, Corey Williams or no, we have a definite DT need, who else would you have taken?

Well, the top three DTs on the board that draft were Okoye, Harrell and Branch. Anybody know how Alan Branch is doing in Arizona? Would he have been a better pick? I wasn't really high on him, since he's more in the "tub of goo at DT" mold, but Harrell hasn't really impressed.

Branch was hurt this year. I disagree on the blob thing. He's taller, stronger, and more fit looking than Harrell imo.

[Pacopete4]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.

ok, so never was the correct word then i guess...

[Bretsky]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.

ok, so never was the correct word then i guess...

I believe Carraeker was the other; they knew Okoye would not be there

Leaper had the guy pegged for us before the draft........Reggie Nelson

[Pacopete4]

I guess you got me.. he mighta still been around in rounds 2-3 or even 4.. never know

The word on the street is that Denver would have taken Harrell if we had not. Apparently, according to Shanihan, they had three defensive lineman targeted, and since the top 2 were gone after Green Bay took Harrell, they had to trade up to get Jarvis Moss. I forget who the top guy they had targeted was. It was probably Okoye or Carriker.

So Harrell wouldn't have lasted past pick #21.

ok, so never was the correct word then i guess...

I believe Carraeker was the other; they knew Okoye would not be there

Leaper had the guy pegged for us before the draft........Reggie Nelson

it also goes unnoticed that DT wasnt even close to our biggest need at the time... best player available? according to who? dingbat TT...

[Lurker64]

Branch was hurt this year. I disagree on the blob thing. He's taller, stronger, and more fit looking than Harrell imo.

Partly my opinion is shaped by the (lack of) sterling careers by Michigan DTs in the NFL. I suppose it will be interesting to see whether, after both Branch and Harrell are coming off of injury, which rebounds better in their third year.

In 2007 Branch played in 11 games (no starts) and recorded 9 tackles (8 solo).
In 2007 Harrell played in 7 games (2 starts) and recorded 16 tackles (10 solo).

In 2008 Branch played in 4 games (no starts) and recorded 6 tackles (5 solo).
In 2008 Harrell played in 6 games (no starts) and recorded 12 tackles (8 solo).

In 2009? Who knows. So far it looks like, in a race between uninspiring performances, Harrell is slightly ahead.