Gerald McCoy

[mission]

Ya if he's there (and I doubt he will), you gotta just take him and figure it out later ...

That said, with so many guys recently announcing (Moreno, Stafford, etc) that they're declaring for the draft, I think this year might go down as one of those blessings in disguises... the top 15 talent pool is growing and if we can't make something happen here, it's all on us (TT) heh...

Honestly, I want Rey/Mays and Moreno ... Knowshawn is special. 2nd round? Where is he being projected... ?

homer But I agree, he's a fantastic college runner. I haven't seen him enough to have an opinion on how he'll do in the pros.

He's a pro style runner who has his name in spite of his team (first season he's been 100% featured)... I dont think Stafford is any good, nor are the Bulldogs in general but Moreno would get 8-9 guys in the box all day and dare Stafford to do something ... I hate to bring up BS (I never have before), but Ive never seen more #20Barry-esque runs than this guy with more hint of straight ahead. This guys spin move is A+ and his athletic ability is ridiculous ... Heisman on a team with more weapons...

Irony! ESPN just came on in the background... they just said "beanie wells, the second back to be taken behind moreno blah blah blah ... " so there goes that idea... i guess i aint the only one rating him high

And yes, Im trying to be a homer... I got nothing else to be excited about except (potentially) a new DC and some draft picks. If they're the *right* picks (IMO obviously lol) then the excitement might help me make it to TC/preseason ... :P

[TheCheese]

TT like Ron Wolf generally picks best available. Yes, the qbs do not factor in but if McCoy and Mays are already taken what other players warrant a #9 pick? Crabtree imo does. (Assuming available)

Before you conclude that Crabtree is too good to pass up and he's a surefire difference maker and pro bowler, I'd suggest you do some research on how often these guys come up and how often they're busts.

I mean, if you want a crash course on this, just look at recent Detroit Lions drafts. Crabtree isn't half the college player that Calvin Johnson was, and if Calvin Johnson was available to draft at #9 this year, I don't think I would take him.

Ummm.. Statistically, Crabtree is the far superior player. We're talking nearly three times the yards and more than three times the touchdowns touchdowns as a freshman. The sophomore year results are similiar. Obviously with Harrell being a pretty good quarterback for the system, and Tech being a run and gun team, they're going to score more points.

Athletically, it goes to Johnson with a slight edge. Johnson obviously was gifted with better size. However, Calvin is slow to get off the jam in the pros because he is such a long strider. Crabtree could have more success.

With that said, they're both top tier prospects. Johnson was rare, and Crabtree probably isn't as freakish because of the size difference, but I suspect he'll be a very good pro.

Like Bretsky said, if he's there at 9, you take him or trade down as somebody will pay big to get this stud.

I see what you're saying but as far as prospects, Crabtree isn't in Calvin's league, period. Seeing what Calvin was able to do in college with an ineffective QB was just amazing. Let alone his physical characteristics were amazing, he had the highly sought after good guy character aspect as well. Hes the greatest WR prospect ever.

[Partial]

That's debateable. There are definitely weaknesses in his game, mainly that he is too tall to be extremely football fast (he times well because he is like a gazelle). On athletic ability coming out of school Moss had to be pretty similiar if not better. Moss fell because of severe character concerns.

I put Calvin, Larry Fitz, and Crabtree all in about the same class. We'll see how Crabtree tests out, but I suspect the results will be almost as stunning as Johnsons.

[TheCheese]

That's debateable. There are definitely weaknesses in his game, mainly that he is too tall to be extremely football fast (he times well because he is like a gazelle). On athletic ability coming out of school Moss had to be pretty similiar if not better. Moss fell because of severe character concerns.

I put Calvin, Larry Fitz, and Crabtree all in about the same class. We'll see how Crabtree tests out, but I suspect the results will be almost as stunning as Johnsons.

Your missing my point; I'm talking about prospects here. It's not debatable that CJ was a better prospect than Fitz or Crabtree. They are all elite prospects but CJ stands alone at the top. His size, with his speed and hands coming out of college was just crazy. No character or injury concerns either. Fitz didn't have fast timed speed and it's also the knock on Crabtree. Crabtree may very well have the better pro career because there is so many variables but speaking specifically from a prospect perspective CJ leaves Crabtree and every other WR prospect in the dust.

[Fritz]

Okay, though - who I don't want: Beanie Wells.

He has holes the size of trucks to run through most of the time. Not a bad back, but not a great back.

[Patler]

But didn't the Packers take a d-lineman named McCoy back in the 70's...never quaite lived up to the pick, I don't think.

Mike McCoy from Notre Dame. His biggest problem was that he came out of college with an aura of being almost unblockable, which of course he could never live up to in the NFL. He was very dominating in college. He started out slow but became a good solid DT for the Packers, starting for them for a good part of the 1970's. For a few seasons he was thought to have a shot at the pro bowl, but the Packers didn't get a lot of recognition during that time. McCoy was traded to Oakland for a couple draft picks, including a first round pick that the Packers used to draft John Anderson. That trade showed that the league did realize that McCoy was a pretty decent player. I hated to see McCoy go, he was one of the few players they had who could make a play from time to time. McCoy started at Oakland a few years and then went to a few other places toward the end of his career. Had a decent length NFL career for that time.

[RashanGary]

ESPN's updated big board (including JR's, just updated)

1. Andre Smith* OT Alabama 98
2. Aaron Curry OLB Wake For. 98
3. Michael Crabtree** WR Texas Tech 98
4. Eugene Monroe OT Virginia 97
5. Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio State 97
6. Taylor Mays* S USC 91
7. Aaron Maybin** DE/OLB Penn State 96
8. Gerald McCoy* DT Oklahoma 96
9. Sam Bradford** QB Oklahoma 96
10. Brian Orakpo DE Texas 95
11. Jason Smith OT Baylor 95
12. Mark Sanchez* QB USC 95
13. Matthew Stafford* QB Georgia 94
14. Jeremy Maclin** WR Missouri 94
15. Knowshon Moreno** RB Georgia 94
16. Jermaine Gresham* TE Oklahoma 94
17. B.J. Raji* DT Boston Coll. 93
18. Vontae Davis* CB Illinois 93
19. Brandon Pettigrew TE Okla. State 93
20. Rey Maualuga ILB USC 93
21. Everette Brown* DE Florida State 93
22. Russell Okung* OT Okla. State 92
23. Brandon Spikes* ILB Florida 92
24. Tyson Jackson DE LSU 92
25. James Laurinaitis ILB Ohio State 91
26. Brian Cushing OLB USC 91
27. Michael Oher OT Mississippi 91
28. Chris Wells* RB Ohio State 91
29. Percy Harvin* WR Florida 91
30. Greg Hardy* DE Mississippi 91
31. Terrence Cody* DT Alabama 91
32. Jerry Hughes** DE TCU 90

[RashanGary]

This was updated just before the National Championship game so it includes almost all of the college football season. It's about as close as it's going ot get before the combine (and all that does is move up bad players and drop good ones based on measurables).

Obviously there is no exact gauge in the inexact science known as the NFL draft, but this is about the best guage we're going to get.


Who do you want?

[RashanGary]

Re: ESPN's updated big board (including JR's, just updated)

4. Eugene Monroe OT Virginia 97
8. Gerald McCoy* DT Oklahoma 96
11. Jason Smith OT Baylor 95
17. B.J. Raji* DT Boston Coll. 93
21. Everette Brown* DE Florida State 93


Based on need and what I've seen, I think these guys would fit well. However, there are several studs scattered throughout the draft and it might not come down to need. One guy I don't want is Orakpo. He's junk. He had 10 sacks in his first three years. Everette Brown had 24 or some insane number like that. No thanks to Ojunkpo. He's a wuss.

[Fritz]

This was updated just before the National Championship game so it includes almost all of the college football season. It's about as close as it's going ot get before the combine (and all that does is move up bad players and drop good ones based on measurables).

Obviously there is no exact gauge in the inexact science known as the NFL draft, but this is about the best guage we're going to get.


Who do you want?

The woman who is the secretary to the president where I work, but she's married.

[Zool]

That's debateable. There are definitely weaknesses in his game, mainly that he is too tall to be extremely football fast (he times well because he is like a gazelle). On athletic ability coming out of school Moss had to be pretty similiar if not better. Moss fell because of severe character concerns.

I put Calvin, Larry Fitz, and Crabtree all in about the same class. We'll see how Crabtree tests out, but I suspect the results will be almost as stunning as Johnsons.

Your missing my point; I'm talking about prospects here. It's not debatable that CJ was a better prospect than Fitz or Crabtree. They are all elite prospects but CJ stands alone at the top. His size, with his speed and hands coming out of college was just crazy. No character or injury concerns either. Fitz didn't have fast timed speed and it's also the knock on Crabtree. Crabtree may very well have the better pro career because there is so many variables but speaking specifically from a prospect perspective CJ leaves Crabtree and every other WR prospect in the dust.

I'm not sure you've watched Crabtree all that extensively. I've watched 5 Red Raider games this year and with all the ridiculous offense he still stands out. He's faster and stronger than everyone trying to cover him. He is doubles and tripled but still comes down with the ball.

Johnsons last year at GT, they had a 1500 yard rusher(Tashard Choice). Granted his QB's werent exactly pro material, but he wasnt standing alone as the only talented guy on the team. I'd take CJ every day of the week at #9, but if Crabtree and CJ were available at the spot, it would be a very tough decision. Crabtree is just so strong that he'd be hard to pass up.

[chain_gang]

I'm not sure you've watched Crabtree all that extensively. I've watched 5 Red Raider games this year and with all the ridiculous offense he still stands out. He's faster and stronger than everyone trying to cover him. He is doubles and tripled but still comes down with the ball.

Johnsons last year at GT, they had a 1500 yard rusher(Tashard Choice). Granted his QB's werent exactly pro material, but he wasnt standing alone as the only talented guy on the team. I'd take CJ every day of the week at #9, but if Crabtree and CJ were available at the spot, it would be a very tough decision. Crabtree is just so strong that he'd be hard to pass up.

I completely agree, CJ may have some qualities that Crabtree doesn't quite possess and vice-versa. I found out more than enough about Crabtree his freshman year in college, the guy is freakishly strong, he may have the strongest pair of hands in CF too. Anyone who can break a tackle along the sideline, on their tip-toes has to have freakish strength. I think he'll be a good one for many years, and would be a perfect fit in a WCO. As for more of CJ vs. Crabtree, I think it's comparing apples to oranges. Crabtree has better hands and breaks more tackles than CJ, but CJ can time the jumps beautifully, and if he finds a crease he's a threat to take it to the house, but he does drop a lot of passes, and doesn't seem to be at his best over the middle.

[chain_gang]

Re: ESPN's updated big board (including JR's, just updated)

I'll give you a few of who I want and three that I wouldn't touch at all.

6. Taylor Mays
3. Michael Crabtree- if he's there why not.
8. Gerald McCoy- I was pretty impressed last night with his showing, and seems to be one hard worker.
10. Brian Orakpo- I'd be okay with him, the DE's in this draft are no sure bets.
27. Michael Oher- I think ESPN is underrating this guy. He played better and was more consistent than Andre Smith. If he played at Bama or Florida he'd be in their top 10 prospects.


Now a few that I wouldn't touch at all.

1. Andre Smith- The guy does have talent, but shouldn't a left tackle not have so many lapses in pass protection?
28. Chris Wells- He's just so damn injury prone.
25. James Laurinaitis- When was the last time an OSU linebacker made an impact in the NFL?
21. Everette Brown- His Height and size are near identical to Jamal Reynolds. Not only that but besides Peter Boulware, name one FSU DE that has made an impact in the NFL, FSU defense caters to speed rushers. FSU has always had a line them up, get wide and sic' em scheme. Goes back to Reinard Wilson, Andre Wadsworth, Boulware, Reynolds, Wimbley and I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. Boulware's the only one who made an impact in the NFL, but Boulwares stats were completely freakish coming out of college something like 19-20 sacks his last season. Browns Stats are nearly identical to Reynolds. Just too eerily similar for me.

[Pack-man]

I want McCoy. If he declares grab him!

[StPaulPackFan]

Re: ESPN's updated big board (including JR's, just updated)

4. Eugene Monroe OT Virginia 97
8. Gerald McCoy* DT Oklahoma 96
11. Jason Smith OT Baylor 95
17. B.J. Raji* DT Boston Coll. 93
21. Everette Brown* DE Florida State 93


Based on need and what I've seen, I think these guys would fit well. However, there are several studs scattered throughout the draft and it might not come down to need. One guy I don't want is Orakpo. He's junk. He had 10 sacks in his first three years. Everette Brown had 24 or some insane number like that. No thanks to Ojunkpo. He's a wuss.

I agree. I hadn't heard much about Brown until you brought him up a while back. Out of all the DE highlight reels I watched he was by far the most impressive. His explosiveness off the line was simply stunning. Whereas Orakpo seemed to be a little sluggish off the line. Most of his sacks seemed to come after the QB held the ball too long. IMO, that does not translate well to the NFL.