Cliff Christl

[Harlan Huckleby]

Damn interesting interview with the old man today, well worth a listen. And this is the real thing, not that annoying imposter. It's from The Homer Radio Show.

sound link:
mms://goodkarma.wmod.llnwd.net/a459/...istl012109.mp3

http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/audio/

[RashanGary]

Interesting. I agree on some points. I disagree on others. I don't think the Packers are as far as he says, but I don't think things are all rosy on defense either.

Offensively, I'd say the Packers could win a championship with darn near what they have. Maybe one stronger OL and I'm OK with the offense.

Defensively, I think they need to be stronger with their front 7 and I think Ted can do it (although betting on SB wins is much tougher than betting against). It's very easy to say "they'll be OK, but not win a championship". 97% of all teams fall under that category each year.

We'll see where it goes. I respect Cliff, but I think he's influenced too much by Ron Wolf and Ron Wolf thinks he's a genius for finding Favre so now Ron's whole belief is that the Packers will have no chance without him. Cliff echos the same sentiment because he's still close to Ron and hears it when they talk. I think Ron is misguided by ego and Cliff misguided by Ron, then readers and listeners are misguided by one mans very large ego passed on through Cliff.

[cpk1994]

Interesting. I agree on some points. I disagree on others. I don't think the Packers are as far as he says, but I don't think things are all rosy on defense either.

Offensively, I'd say the Packers could win a championship with darn near what they have. Maybe one stronger OL and I'm OK with the offense.

Defensively, I think they need to be stronger with their front 7 and I think Ted can do it (although betting on SB wins is much tougher than betting against). It's very easy to say "they'll be OK, but not win a championship". 97% of all teams fall under that category each year.

We'll see where it goes. I respect Cliff, but I think he's influenced too much by Ron Wolf and Ron Wolf thinks he's a genius for finding Favre so now Ron's whole belief is that the Packers will have no chance without him. Cliff echos the same sentiment because he's still close to Ron and hears it when they talk. I think Ron is misguided by ego and Cliff misguided by Ron, then readers and listeners are misguided by one mans very large ego passed on through Cliff.

Show me the quote where Ron said the Packers had no chance without Favre. I don't think Ron Wolf would utter one of the dumbest statements ever made by an NFL GM.

[RashanGary]

Ron has said, "you'll miss him when he's gone, just wait" and things like that all of the time.


Just yesterday (or the day before, I forget) Ron was on the Jim Rome Show. He said Favre is still better than most of the QB's out there. Said Rodgers did ok but that he didn't win games and that is all that counts. Huh, tell that to Joe Montana and John Elway when they were on down teams.

He's basically using the only piece of evidence that supports the thought he's been preaching all along, that is Favre is special and without him the Packers will not win and then he disregards all other evidence (like Rodgers great year) by saying, "Rodgers didn't win". Why not bring up the bottom ranked defense there like he brought up the NFLE talent Favre had a couple years ago. He made excuses for Favre with the Packers and Jets, but then puts all blame for the losses on Rodgers. The spell Favre has on people is just astounding.

[Pacopete4]

Ron has said, "you'll miss him when he's gone, just wait" and things like that all of the time.


Just yesterday (or the day before, I forget) Ron was on the Jim Rome Show. He said Favre is still better than most of the QB's out there. Said Rodgers did ok but that he didn't win games and that is all that counts. Huh, tell that to Joe Montana and John Elway when they were on down teams.

He's basically using the only piece of evidence that supports the thought he's been preaching all along, that is Favre is special and without him the Packers will not win and then he disregards all other evidence (like Rodgers great year) by saying, "Rodgers didn't win". Why not bring up the bottom ranked defense there like he brought up the NFLE talent Favre had a couple years ago. He made excuses for Favre with the Packers and Jets, but then puts all blame for the losses on Rodgers. The spell Favre has on people is just astounding.

Maybe Wolf said we will miss him when he's gone because of the type of player he was, not that we wouldn't win again?

Or maybe he's pointing out what a lot of other people have said about Rodgers. Nice little year, didn't show up when he was needed to.

Or maybe he's pointng out the packers didn't win before Brett, and it's already only been one ear and they were 6-10.

Or that wolf/holmgren along with Harlan built the Packers of the 90's which carried into the 2000's and TT just hasn't got the job done(see his 31-33 record and making the post season once in 4 seasons)


There can be many things that attribute to Wolf speaking down at the Packers and I'll listen to him, someone who is proven, over the clowns on these message boards that only have green n gold glasses on...

[Packnut]

Wolf

Ron has said, "you'll miss him when he's gone, just wait" and things like that all of the time.


Just yesterday (or the day before, I forget) Ron was on the Jim Rome Show. He said Favre is still better than most of the QB's out there. Said Rodgers did ok but that he didn't win games and that is all that counts. Huh, tell that to Joe Montana and John Elway when they were on down teams.

He's basically using the only piece of evidence that supports the thought he's been preaching all along, that is Favre is special and without him the Packers will not win and then he disregards all other evidence (like Rodgers great year) by saying, "Rodgers didn't win". Why not bring up the bottom ranked defense there like he brought up the NFLE talent Favre had a couple years ago. He made excuses for Favre with the Packers and Jets, but then puts all blame for the losses on Rodgers. The spell Favre has on people is just astounding.

Maybe Wolf said we will miss him when he's gone because of the type of player he was, not that we wouldn't win again?

Or maybe he's pointing out what a lot of other people have said about Rodgers. Nice little year, didn't show up when he was needed to.

Or maybe he's pointng out the packers didn't win before Brett, and it's already only been one ear and they were 6-10.

Or that wolf/holmgren along with Harlan built the Packers of the 90's which carried into the 2000's and TT just hasn't got the job done(see his 31-33 record and making the post season once in 4 seasons)


There can be many things that attribute to Wolf speaking down at the Packers and I'll listen to him, someone who is proven, over the clowns on these message boards that only have green n gold glasses on...

The problem in reaching the "clowns" is they view their "opinions" more important than the facts. Some of these guys have so much dis-like built up for Favre, that they are immune to seeing how lame their opinions are. They don't realize that when you argue with opinion and dis-regard facts, you have already lost.

Last season with Favre, we went to the NFC Championship game. This season without him, we did'nt even make the play-offs. That is a FACT that cannot be changed. That is the reality of the situation. Now the"clowns" can make up all the excuses they desire in order to support their opinion, but they cannot change the fact and that angers them. Normal people when presented with a fact that proves their opinion wrong accept it and move on.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Its good to see that retirement has not sweetened-up Cristl. He says Jerry Kramer doesn't deserve to be in hall of fame, the Packers are full of average players, and TT and MM "maybe have some chance" of eventually succeeding.

I think somewhere near the end of the interview, he said Santa Claus is a big fraud. Cliff is my kind of guy.

[Cleft Crusty]

Christl enjoys trotting out the Great Player Theory. According to the GPT, to win in the NFL you need one or two guys that are game changers. Also, according to GPT, there are only a handful of these guys in the NFL - guys like Peyton Manning, Ed Reed, Larry Fitzgerald, Brian Westbrook, and of course, Brett Favre (in his prime and even most of last year). The Packers don't have a guy that fits the GPT - yet (Woodson is borderline GP). Clefty believes that Rodgers could become that guy, but Stubby has to make it happen. For example, when you have a fourth and goal, even if you think you can score on a fullback dive, you still keep the ball in the hands of your best playmaker trying to throw to your best receiver. For a player to become a member of the Great Player Society, the coach has to let him off the leash. You hope that Rodgers will have the knack to make more positive than negative plays. Thompson has to be better at bringing in the strong supporting cast, perhaps finding another GP (when you have the #5 pick you need to get a GP), and Stubby needs to coach Rodgers next year in a manner to help him develop into a GP.

[Pacopete4]

Cleft, my question a if Woodson isn't a game changing cb... Who is?


And Packnut, I couldn't agree more with you.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Re: Wolf

Last season with Favre, we went to the NFC Championship game. This season without him, we did'nt even make the play-offs. That is a FACT that cannot be changed.

Why stop there? Look at what happened to the economy when FAvre left Green Bay! This is a FACT that cannot be changed.

(But your logic does impress Pacopete, you got that working for you. )

[cpk1994]

Ron has said, "you'll miss him when he's gone, just wait" and things like that all of the time.


Just yesterday (or the day before, I forget) Ron was on the Jim Rome Show. He said Favre is still better than most of the QB's out there. Said Rodgers did ok but that he didn't win games and that is all that counts. Huh, tell that to Joe Montana and John Elway when they were on down teams.

He's basically using the only piece of evidence that supports the thought he's been preaching all along, that is Favre is special and without him the Packers will not win and then he disregards all other evidence (like Rodgers great year) by saying, "Rodgers didn't win". Why not bring up the bottom ranked defense there like he brought up the NFLE talent Favre had a couple years ago. He made excuses for Favre with the Packers and Jets, but then puts all blame for the losses on Rodgers. The spell Favre has on people is just astounding.

If thats the quote you are putting words in his mouth. Ron Wolf never said that the Packers have no chance without Favre. He could have meant many different other things.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Maybe we win a couple more with Favre, but not a whole lot. Offense was not the reason we lost 10 games. Maybe two or three games could has been won at the end of regulation with Favre, but remember that Favre also needs a pretty good defense to succeed as well. You can't just simply say "Favre is gone and thats why we lost 7 more games."

[Harlan Huckleby]

Maybe we win a couple more with Favre.

Or lose a couple more. Rodgers played as well as Favre, and didn't tank in the end.

[Pacopete4]

Ron has said, "you'll miss him when he's gone, just wait" and things like that all of the time.


Just yesterday (or the day before, I forget) Ron was on the Jim Rome Show. He said Favre is still better than most of the QB's out there. Said Rodgers did ok but that he didn't win games and that is all that counts. Huh, tell that to Joe Montana and John Elway when they were on down teams.

He's basically using the only piece of evidence that supports the thought he's been preaching all along, that is Favre is special and without him the Packers will not win and then he disregards all other evidence (like Rodgers great year) by saying, "Rodgers didn't win". Why not bring up the bottom ranked defense there like he brought up the NFLE talent Favre had a couple years ago. He made excuses for Favre with the Packers and Jets, but then puts all blame for the losses on Rodgers. The spell Favre has on people is just astounding.

If thats the quote you are putting words in his mouth. Ron Wolf never said that the Packers have no chance without Favre. He could have meant many different other things.

Holy shit, me and CPK agree on something.. JH your love for TT/Rodgers clouds your judgement on things as bad as me with some Favre thingsk

[Partial]

Ron has said, "you'll miss him when he's gone, just wait" and things like that all of the time.


Just yesterday (or the day before, I forget) Ron was on the Jim Rome Show. He said Favre is still better than most of the QB's out there. Said Rodgers did ok but that he didn't win games and that is all that counts. Huh, tell that to Joe Montana and John Elway when they were on down teams.

He's basically using the only piece of evidence that supports the thought he's been preaching all along, that is Favre is special and without him the Packers will not win and then he disregards all other evidence (like Rodgers great year) by saying, "Rodgers didn't win". Why not bring up the bottom ranked defense there like he brought up the NFLE talent Favre had a couple years ago. He made excuses for Favre with the Packers and Jets, but then puts all blame for the losses on Rodgers. The spell Favre has on people is just astounding.

Are you trying to say claim that you're a more knowledgeable football fan than Ron Wolf? I'm pretty sure Ron Wolf knows exactly what he's talking about.

Fact is Packers never had a down year until 2005 with Favre despite having some teams with vastly less talent than this years' squad. As I have pointed out numerous times, Aaron had nice stats because of the plethora of offensive talent (top 3 receiving corps, top 10 offensive line, solid running game, etc), but he still doesn't know how to use the entire field after 4 years, and as a result the offense was equally vanilla as the defense. He's not that good, yet. He could potentially be, but I'm skeptical.